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BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
90
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Posted - 2012.06.19 20:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please move this to the necessary forum if this isnt where it is supposed to be.
OK So after spending quite a bit of time planning and re planning one of the major detriments to FW corps / alliances is the problem of not being able to fund the corp.
In any non FW corp the corp gains money from taxes. In FW we get money from LP, not ratting. Since there is no way for a corp to gain income (since we dont rat) it makes starting SRP, and Corp Wide Projects near impossible, unless funded directly by the players.
There is a ton of stuff Id like to see done within our alliance / corp but it needs funding to do so. Without a funding mechanism FW corps are severly limited in what they can do.
The other thing (related to the tax) is that Alliances should be allowed to have Non FW Corps join in the alliance. This would allow us to actually have an industrial unit / mission unit/ etc. This would allow us to expand and actualy compete more with a 0.0 alliance. We already cant feasible own a moon worth anything, POCOs we can however so can everyone else.
TLDR
Without a corporate income source FW corps are limited in what they can do
Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
29
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Posted - 2012.06.19 22:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Good idea. +1 Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
41
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Posted - 2012.06.20 03:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Why does an industrial wing of your group have to be in the same alliance? For that matter why would you want them in your alliance, it just sticks a big target on them. SLAPD - Star Scientist, I science stars |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
57
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Posted - 2012.06.20 03:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
A LP tax? Not able to start an industrial department? Non FW entities in a FW based alliance? lol.These all seem like silly ideas, and I was unaware that FW removed your ability to invent and manufacture. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
86
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Posted - 2012.06.20 03:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
LP tax is very interesting idea. Probably will take just a couple of years to implement. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
29
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Posted - 2012.06.20 08:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Schalac wrote:A LP tax? Not able to start an industrial department? Non FW entities in a FW based alliance? lol.These all seem like silly ideas, and I was unaware that FW removed your ability to invent and manufacture.
I'm too lazy for all that stuff.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
minuseb
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.06.20 12:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
how about a standard LP tax that would be automatically "donated" to your faction IHUBs? to upgrade levels or fill the buffer maybe have it only for people in npc fw corp as to promote joining a "real" corp ... i play rarely so thats why i'm in TLIB , for now
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
70
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
The majority of successful FW corps are successful because they do not rely on FW mechanics for income. There are 9,146,984,120 ways to make isk in Eve and LP is only one of them.
Industrial corps should never be in the same alliance as your PvP corps anyways (in most cases), why paint a big ass target on your carebears? Is sexy time? |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
238
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
I made a proposal several weeks about and outline a few things I thought needed to be adjusted. One of them was a LP tax.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114840&find=unread
Far as the non FW industrial stuff.. That will never happen, you just have to do like everyone else does and set up separate corps out side the PVP group. |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
94
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
There are a ton of ways to make income, but none of those methods provide for corporate income to run corp programs.
An indy non fw corp in alliance isnt bad at all, why have indies in any corp if that is the case? If they were an indy fw corp then it would be a problem.
Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
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Ethan Argoin
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
7
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
There is no need for LP tax.
Most 0.0 / high sec alliances / corps needs funds for ship replacements, yadayadayada...
In Factional Warfare this isnt required.
Player X gets LP, player X loses ship, Player X replaces ship with LP - rince repeat.
Factional Warfare corps are and should remain with the players being self sufficient, its kind of the point.
Furthermore, the whole point in being in Factional Warfare is to be in low sec, whereby having people doing anything other than Miltiia PVP or plexing seems a pointless idea ;)
Ethan |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
94
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ethan Argoin wrote:There is no need for LP tax.
Most 0.0 / high sec alliances / corps needs funds for ship replacements, yadayadayada...
In Factional Warfare this isnt required.
Player X gets LP, player X loses ship, Player X replaces ship with LP - rince repeat.
Factional Warfare corps are and should remain with the players being self sufficient, its kind of the point.
Furthermore, the whole point in being in Factional Warfare is to be in low sec, whereby having people doing anything other than Miltiia PVP or plexing seems a pointless idea ;)
Ethan
And I believe this mindset is what makes players eventually leave FW. Most players cannot be self sufficient to fly the ships that people want (t2 cruisers, caps, etc)
Without having multiple accounts a FW only player cannot be sustain enough income to support those types of ships on CONSISTENT basis.
A SRP in FW would go a long long way.
Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Ethan Argoin
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
7
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Posted - 2012.06.20 15:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:Ethan Argoin wrote:There is no need for LP tax.
Most 0.0 / high sec alliances / corps needs funds for ship replacements, yadayadayada...
In Factional Warfare this isnt required.
Player X gets LP, player X loses ship, Player X replaces ship with LP - rince repeat.
Factional Warfare corps are and should remain with the players being self sufficient, its kind of the point.
Furthermore, the whole point in being in Factional Warfare is to be in low sec, whereby having people doing anything other than Miltiia PVP or plexing seems a pointless idea ;)
Ethan And I believe this mindset is what makes players eventually leave FW. Most players cannot be self sufficient to fly the ships that people want (t2 cruisers, caps, etc) Without having multiple accounts a FW only player cannot be sustain enough income to support those types of ships on CONSISTENT basis. A SRP in FW would go a long long way.
My character is relatively new, and I manage to keep my losses replaced with no issue? I also have no alts.
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Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate
70
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Posted - 2012.06.20 15:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Just a thought, start lobbying for cyno jammers as a fw system upgrade and maybe moons become a viable option. Prob will never happen due to null whinefest that would ensue...last thing those guys want is skilled pvper's with a lot of ISK Is sexy time? |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
94
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Posted - 2012.06.20 15:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:Just a thought, start lobbying for cyno jammers as a fw system upgrade and maybe moons become a viable option. Prob will never happen due to null whinefest that would ensue...last thing those guys want is skilled pvper's with a lot of ISK
Nexx that is a very good idea, if corps could manage moons it would make things better.
As for the armiarian. So you can field 4 different recons at any time, logi, at least 3 types of BS, have 4 drakes stores up as well as t2 variant frigates and HACs, etc ready to roll?
The short answer is you can have normal ships stocked but not the type of ships that enable a militia to CONSISTENTLY roll a t3 (strat cruiser) fleet with full logi
That is what I am talking about, not a random fleet of dessys and t1 cruisers. Anyone should be able to field up to BC with no problem. Its getting past the BC Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
605
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Posted - 2012.06.20 16:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:And I believe this mindset is what makes players eventually leave FW. Most players cannot be self sufficient to fly the ships that people want (t2 cruisers, caps, etc)
Without having multiple accounts a FW only player cannot be sustain enough income to support those types of ships on CONSISTENT basis.
Soooo... tell me about how taking some of your members' income and merely redistributing it among others would change that. Taxes don't make your corp magically get more money than what the people already make.
I'm not against your idea in principle. However with the speed CCP is pushing these kind of changes you will wait years for it. Meanwhile, if you want to tax your members, simply ask them for a weekly/monthly fixed payment. It's fairer than a percentage tax anyway. |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
110
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you don't know how to collect "taxes" from your members you are a horrible CEO and should just quit EVE. |
Dalts
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
14
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Just have a corp character that has standings for FW lvl 4 missions. Run some missions as a group inc the corp char and then all share reward LPs, corp char ends up with piles of LPs to fund corp stuff. |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
95
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dalts wrote:Just have a corp character that has standings for FW lvl 4 missions. Run some missions as a group inc the corp char and then all share reward LPs, corp char ends up with piles of LPs to fund corp stuff.
Majority of LP doesnt come from mission grinding anymore, its from plexing (at least up here) Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
marketjacker
Percussive Diplomacy PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
34
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Posted - 2012.06.21 04:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
There's plenty of ways a non indy corp can make income as a corp outside of group activities. SLAPD generates about 300 mil a week passively without taxing our members and we are only a 10 man active corp. Just because you are too dense to see it and your corp members are all mouthbreathing morons doesn't mean the whole system needs to adapt to suit lazy mongloid people.
Keep posting though it's always reassuring to see so many bad ideas coming from the brain crippled. |
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Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
220
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Posted - 2012.06.21 12:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jones Bones wrote:If you don't know how to collect "taxes" from your members you are a horrible CEO and should just quit EVE.
Anxiously waiting for Eddie's input in this thread :) |
Dood Maker
Ruimte Skip Moordenaar
2
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Posted - 2012.06.21 12:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote: OK So after spending quite a bit of time planning and re planning one of the major detriments to FW corps / alliances is the problem of not being able to fund the corp.
So you planned and re-planned but found that you cant make any money in FW?
Have you heard of corp donations? You run plexes for the day with your corp as a corp and make a day of it. You then choose a Item that you want to sell that you can buy with LP and the people in the corp that was with you in fleet buy that with 50% of the LP they got on the Day. You then sell that for isk.... Now was that so hard to do? You clearly did not plan well.
BolsterBomb wrote: In any non FW corp the corp gains money from taxes. In FW we get money from LP, not ratting. Since there is no way for a corp to gain income (since we dont rat) it makes starting SRP, and Corp Wide Projects near impossible, unless funded directly by the players.
This sounds like carebear projects.... We will give you free frigates for plexing like a bot and make us rich MUHAHAHA...
Militia is Pvp... Yes you plex and you make LP. But you plex because you hope for that solo 1v1 fight. (Well that's why im in FW)
BolsterBomb wrote: There is a ton of stuff Id like to see done within our alliance / corp but it needs funding to do so. Without a funding mechanism FW corps are severely limited in what they can do.
You need to speak to your corp and have a bit of a corp meeting. the first thing to do is say: "I was thinking of doing ABC. What you guys/girls think about it and what you think will be the best way to fund it in the current state we in?" You might be surprised what suggestions you get form people.
BolsterBomb wrote: The other thing (related to the tax) is that Alliances should be allowed to have Non FW Corps join in the alliance. This would allow us to actually have an industrial unit / mission unit/ etc. This would allow us to expand and actually compete more with a 0.0 alliance. We already cant feasible own a moon worth anything, POCOs we can however so can everyone else.
As stated before by others... YOU NEVER JOIN YOUR INDUSTRIAL WITH PVP. Have you heard of a wardec.
If your corp gets wardecd, everybody has killrights on them in your corp. Even the Industrial unit.
2 Corps = 1FW - 1Missions/industrial
Job Done
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BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
95
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Posted - 2012.06.21 14:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ill respond to some of the commets made because some are good.
1) Why not do a corp LP day. Sure you can, and you do exactly that, however why should a LS corp have to do a planned "corp isk" day when a 0.0 or HS corp/alliance can do it passively via tax?
2) A SRP is to help get people into consistent bs and bc fleets not just frigates, if you cant be self suffiecient buying your own frigates and cruisers something is wrong. Corpmates dont need help here, they need help in the bigger more expensive stuff such as BS, Concsitent BC, t2 cruisers etc
3) Its isnt a falacy, corps that fly bigger / shinier stuff have more oppertunities then corps flying around in t1 cruiser hulls. Doesnt mean you cant win fights it just is very simple. A t1 cruiser or bc gang without logi (typical in ls) is not going to go against a roaming hac / or t3 cruiser gang.
4) Corp donations....right....that falls under the same senario as 10% do all the work in a corp and the other 90% leach off of it.
5) Dues, that is an option but then again it also is a huge turn off in corps. Thats why taxes are more appealing, its the norm. Dues are a different method
6) Ill digress the indy in the pvp corp - point taken however, they can always be wardecd and your enemy will eventually find out who they are so I dont find this a huge problem. Putting them in the alliance (not corp) makes them part of something. A seperate lone indy corp is an outsider. Flying under the same banner is very important for unification.
7) Self suffiency in LS - why do LS pilots have to be the only people in the game that have to be self suffiecent? Any other part of EVE corps usually supply something for members
8) Instituting corp projects HELPS with recruiting. IMO the corp (a LS/FW) that can figure out how to act as a 0.0 alliance will be a dominant force in LS.
Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
DirtyDozen
The Six-Pack Syndicate
7
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Posted - 2012.06.21 15:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Princess Nexxala wrote:The majority of successful FW corps are successful because they do not rely on FW mechanics for income. There are 9,146,984,120 ways to make isk in Eve and LP is only one of them.
Industrial corps should never be in the same alliance as your PvP corps anyways (in most cases), why paint a big ass target on your carebears?
^^ QFT |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
95
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Posted - 2012.06.21 15:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
DirtyDozen wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:The majority of successful FW corps are successful because they do not rely on FW mechanics for income. There are 9,146,984,120 ways to make isk in Eve and LP is only one of them.
Industrial corps should never be in the same alliance as your PvP corps anyways (in most cases), why paint a big ass target on your carebears? ^^ QFT
And a lot of those ways require alts
A game should not be "you have to have an alt to be successful".
I Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
marketjacker
Percussive Diplomacy PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
36
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Posted - 2012.06.23 01:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
BolsterBomb wrote:DirtyDozen wrote:Princess Nexxala wrote:The majority of successful FW corps are successful because they do not rely on FW mechanics for income. There are 9,146,984,120 ways to make isk in Eve and LP is only one of them.
Industrial corps should never be in the same alliance as your PvP corps anyways (in most cases), why paint a big ass target on your carebears? ^^ QFT And a lot of those ways require alts A game should not be "you have to have an alt to be successful". I
CCP doesn't agree. Guess you need to find a new game. |
Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
112
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Posted - 2012.06.23 18:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
When I ran Heretic Army, and it was a bigger corporation, we had ship replacement, corp Logistics ships and free ammoz for our members. And we did not have this well of LP to suck up for the isk.
So figure your **** out and stop requiring CCP turn your sandbox into a crystal sculpture. Put some effort into the game and your corp. Or are you a terribad CEO who has no idea how to run a corp in EVE? |
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