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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.18 15:20:00 -
[1]
Feeling like you've always wanted to explore the hidden riches of New Eden, from wormholes to archaeology sites, but never could quite reach 100% signal strength? Look no further than the new EVE Online Scanning Guide Tutorial Video.
After watching the video go try out a few scans then comeback here and let us know what you think about our new scanning tutorial.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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jason hill
Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.18 15:29:00 -
[2]
oooer ! 1st
destroy everything you touch |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.12.18 15:45:00 -
[3]
I'm surprised the guide said you can do probing with only 3 probes as the lowest number is 4.
Also I'm not sure it is such a great idea to close down the overview unless you are in highsec with no active wars.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.12.18 16:12:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Gnulpie on 18/12/2009 16:14:51 A good idea to have some video tutorials available. But:
First introduce the scanning UI (launch probes, recover probes, reconnect probes, map mode - don' forget about the "toggle map button).
Also dont forget to explain how to change point of view and how to zoom in/out. After that explain how you can move a single probe and multiple probes at once.
Then introduce what scanning is about: finding and pinpointing a singnal in space. Say what probes are good for, that you need at least signals from 4 different probes to pinpoint down and that probes have higher scan strength the lower scan range is (weaker scan strength at larger range).
Say how signals will appear on the screen and what it means (sphere, circle, two dots, one dot).
And AFTER that is done, give an example of the actual scan process and how it works all together. There are far to many things in this tutorial which is assumed as known already - but a noob won't have that knowledge.
So yeah, nice idea but needs a bit of rework in my opinion. |
Wollari
Phoenix Industries Wicked Nation
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Posted - 2009.12.18 16:32:00 -
[5]
Well, normally i'm using only 4 probes and placed in the form of a pyramid. That way i got the best results. I don't know why the tutorial shows that you should use 5 ... well ...
Would be good to get more tutorial Videos like that for all kinds of professions.
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Casiella Truza
Back Alley Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.12.18 16:49:00 -
[6]
Interesting approach, I've always worked with the tetrahedron myself. But don't you need four probes to get a warpable result?
Also, confirming that StevieSG's voice rules me. -- Ecliptic Rift, an EVE Blog Back Alley Trading Company is recruiting!
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Drazdin
Amarr Tread Combat Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.18 17:06:00 -
[7]
Very nice video. It'd be great to see more official video guides for various EVE professions.
I use 4 probes myself. I can see how using five would be handy for keeping track of the center point though. I didn't actually know that you could pull it off with just 3 probes - I'm guessing that if you manage to get 100% strength with 3 probes, you wind up with two warpable results (one of which is incorrect)?
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Andrymeda
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Posted - 2009.12.18 17:09:00 -
[8]
Great video! Now it all makes sense.
More! ----------- Amused pilot |
ArchenTheGreat
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 17:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I'm surprised the guide said you can do probing with only 3 probes as the lowest number is 4.
I believe with 3 probes you will finally get two 100% results. So you will be able to warp to any of them to verify which one is correct.
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Rpeg
Minmatar Rosa Castellum
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Posted - 2009.12.18 17:47:00 -
[10]
I wouldn't know what to do with a wormhole if I found one. -- autechre - ep7 - track 1: rpeg estevancarlos.com |
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Ranger002
Minmatar High Guard Command
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Posted - 2009.12.18 17:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I'm surprised the guide said you can do probing with only 3 probes as the lowest number is 4.
Ive hit WH 100% with one probe, you have to be right on top of it at 0.25AU scan range, but you cant warp to it. I was very lucky
Originally by: Mashie Saldana Also I'm not sure it is such a great idea to close down the overview unless you are in highsec with no active wars.
ya dont need the overview just warp to safe spot and cloak and move away from warpin spot while watching local for hostiles
Your personal liberty is your most prized possession. If you trade it for momentary comfort or security, you will regret it, soon and forever. Benjamen Franklin
ôNutsö û General McAuliffe |
Luna Moonraker
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Posted - 2009.12.18 18:15:00 -
[12]
Overall a really good video and great help for new players such as myself. Others would be really helpful. Maybe ensure it is linked directly from the Exploration tutorial mission text?
Few thoughts;
Interesting how it approaches scanning in a different way from the written tutorial by CCP Greyscale here A Story of Scanning where he uses three probes, then a forth to verify vertical alignment. I guess there are a number of ways possible.
Few things from doing the actual Exploration mission last night;
- I didn't realise for a while that you can move the actual system scan map around to centralise it or adjust the view, i.e. with the right click and move, which helps keep it all in view (yes zoom needs a mention also) It is shown in the video but not mentioned how to.
There was nothing in the tutorial in the mission about a 'large red sphere' indicating the area the signature is in. I noticed a red circular line but no red sphere for initial indication? It shows the specific signature selected in the scanner window so maybe that.
Maybe just emphasise the 3D aspect of triangulation, i.e. that it's not enough to align on plan view but also check vertical alignment also. I used the darker 'shade' circles as a guide for this. The video does show something of this but it is not mentioned in the dialogue.
When you get two signature indications the blog guide uses a forth probe to narrow down vertical alignment, in this video she suggests to select one of the dot targets and centre on that. Not sure which way is more effective?
It may also be worth just a note on the Filter feature of the scanner window, as I found it really helpful to filter just 'Signature' when doing the mission tutorial as there was a hatful of other sites in the system ;) Just to reduce other unwanted results.
It doesn't mention that you can also adjust the probe scan range by selecting the edge of the sphere and reducing or enlarging it and with shift down it adjusts all.
Maybe worth noting that it changes from red dot to yellow as you get even closer which was not noted.
As a side note for Mac users there is an annoying bug where sometimes the directional arrows are not shown on the probe so you can't move it! Select the probe in the scanner window and select 'deactivate', then re-activate the probe usually brings the arrows back.
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Lufio II
Amarr Marangrio Space Services Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 18:33:00 -
[13]
You can do it with 3 probes, if you get the correct signal onto the same plane spanned out by the probes so that the two signals given by 3 probes basically merge. This step is not necessary with four probes as it eliminates the double entry, and as such it's much easier to track down.
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Peryner
University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.12.18 18:52:00 -
[14]
great!
but... why isn't this going to be ingame?
you have pnp tech right? and you have the new browser right?
it seems like it should be possible for you to have pnp streaming video in the eve client? Thus saving you from having to add it to the client size.
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Dan Grobag
Caldari French Empire Squad Yggdrasill.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 18:57:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Dan Grobag on 18/12/2009 18:57:04 Haven't looked the video yet but it would be usefull to have an alternate video feed as youtube is very slow to load on my ISP.
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Aralieus
Amarr Traumark Logistics
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Posted - 2009.12.18 19:07:00 -
[16]
<3 StevieSG
Great tutorial for new players, however like others have mentioned it doesnt cover the more complexe side of probing/exploration. Another tutorial showing these aspects would be great, maybe a Scanning Guide Tutorial Video Part 2 going over different sites and what tools are needed, making effective bookmarks, etc etc...
All in all awsome job!
Fortune favors the bold!!! |
Nareg Maxence
Gallente JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2009.12.18 20:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lufio II You can do it with 3 probes, if you get the correct signal onto the same plane spanned out by the probes so that the two signals given by 3 probes basically merge. This step is not necessary with four probes as it eliminates the double entry, and as such it's much easier to track down.
I'd really like to see more solid evidence of this. I just tried it using three probes and all I get is a dual signature at 50% strength each. I do not think it is possible to get a warpable hit with only three probes. I think you need four.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.12.18 21:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ranger002 ya dont need the overview just warp to safe spot and cloak and move away from warpin spot while watching local for hostiles
Yes but the ship in the tutorial didn't cloak before the overview was minimized.
But sure, as it was just a probing tutorial it doesn't matter.
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Egagerka
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.18 22:05:00 -
[19]
As far as the 3 probes to scan are concerned, I recall reading somewhere that your ship acts as a probe as well, so maybe thats the 4th?
Just a guess
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Cosmic Breaz
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Posted - 2009.12.18 22:10:00 -
[20]
I think this is great I did not know about the shift move all pobes.
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2009.12.18 22:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Egagerka As far as the 3 probes to scan are concerned, I recall reading somewhere that your ship acts as a probe as well, so maybe thats the 4th?
Just a guess
Yeah, but the guy didn't know what he was talking about. You can't get a 100% hit with only three probes. Not possible. Can't be done.
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CCP Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2009.12.18 22:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Peryner great!
but... why isn't this going to be ingame?
We may add it in the future and we are looking to embed it on the wiki page.
In our wildest dreams we have a library of these videos that would explain various aspects of EVE to new players..but those are our wildest dreams
Pink Dread has been hijacked
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Laedy
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.19 00:02:00 -
[23]
Would be nice to also have a small tutorial on how to use combat probes to scan for ships, and how to use the filters etc...
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Bel Amar
Amarr Children of Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.12.19 03:15:00 -
[24]
There are some issues with this. Firstly, 4 probes is the minimum you need, not 3. 3 probes will get you duplicate results which will not let you warp to it, even if you get 100% strength on them both. Anomalies are the only thing you can warp to with less than 4 probes. If you could warp to the fake signature when you've got duplicate sites, I'd be using some very large range scans on my deep space probes to create some deep safes...
Secondly, 5 probes encourages lazy placement. Only 4 are used in the final result (and not always the best 4 from what I can determine). This means that you're relying on many probes and good luck in the hope you get a particular combination of 4 probes to scan it down. Given that it is possible to know the optimal placement pattern, and position them accordingly, relying on luck just makes it harder for people when they encounter difficult sites, as they haven't learnt how place things optimally
Finally, if you draw a line between a probe and a sig, and another line between a different probe and the sig then measure the angle, you end up with reduced signal strength if the angle is less than 90 degrees. Sticking a probe on top of the sig guarantees that you'll get an angle of less than 90 between some of your probes, reducing your final signal strength. Again, this will make it hard for people to uncover the sigs that are at the upper limit of their ability to find (based on ingame skills), because they'll have formed bad habits and not learnt how to optimise their placement
I will give it one thing. This tutorial probably does make it easier for new players to find easy sites, but it makes it /harder/ for them to find hard sites and sets them up with bad habits they will later have to learn how to break
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seany1212
Dead poets society
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Posted - 2009.12.19 11:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Bel Amar I will give it one thing. This tutorial probably does make it easier for new players to find easy sites, but it makes it /harder/ for them to find hard sites and sets them up with bad habits they will later have to learn how to break
I agree but for new players its all about the basics, once they have found there first site they'll then refine how they do it to a way that works for them, not everyone scans the same as in the tutorial but it gives them a base to start with then they can start tweeking it
You guys make squeeky noises when you pop, and that's enough motivation as far as I'm concerned. |
TheShinigami
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:00:00 -
[26]
Perhaps it should also explain that if you are trying to scan out a plex in 0.0, you probably need to have a few skills or your going to be very frustrated when after 30 minutes of scanning you can't get it any better than about 85-95%. Also maybe something about how ship bonuses will also help (which the Zephyr has none by the way :-( ).
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Handown
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:19:00 -
[27]
I had the impression that if you placed a probe inside the coverage of another probe you would have a weaker signal.
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CetusOfAsuran
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:08:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Handown I had the impression that if you placed a probe inside the coverage of another probe you would have a weaker signal.
if you have probes too close you used to get conflicted results dont know if that changed.
Agree with what has been said very nice vid but as its aimed at complete newbies to it, a little more could do with being done about the very basics, probe lifetime, camera control, probe interface then move onto the red rings aswel as the orb and different coloured dots.
Personally though i just wish you would stop teaching people how to probe, exploring is becoming more and more popular and now with the one probe type as oposed to the different ones of old even the thickest of people are understanding it :(
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Handown I had the impression that if you placed a probe inside the coverage of another probe you would have a weaker signal.
This is not correct, but there is a limit to how close you can put probes together before they start to interfere with each other. They have to be almost on top of each other for that to be a problem though.
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Mrs Snowman
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Posted - 2009.12.19 21:02:00 -
[30]
finally CCP have come to realise that the best and fastest way to help new players learn eve is through a video tutorial! I did wonder how many more years it would take.
However there is one critical flaw in this video, one which will be potentially disasterous for any new player.
I wont say what it is since it will fall on deaf ears, anyone who has ever done any kind of probing should instantly recognise it.
If your gona make more videos Stevie, play a bit eve mmkay?
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