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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Adelphie
Paradox Collective Choke Point
47
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Posted - 2012.06.20 00:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
In Eve I am almost exclusively a small gang/solo pvper, and have been for the past few years. I've noticed the traffic in null slowly reducing to a point where it is actually safer to be around null than highsec in many cases, which in my mind is not the way things should be. From a purely selfish point of view I would like to see this trend reverse and see null becoming as vibrant as it has been in days gone by so I've got stuff to shoot.
I explored why this has been happening a while ago, and it generated some really interesting ideas, so I'd like to revisit it. If nothing else it gives the players and CCP something to think about.
There are a few reasons that I can see for a reduction of traffic, mainly caused by a lack of migration of players into null:
- High barriers to entry for newer players/corps/alliances to move to null - Not enough of a carrot to entice players away from highsec - A lack of differentiated content in null vs. other areas of space. - Current alliances entrenched in their space. - Not enough reason for industrialists to be in null
So my question to the masses is this: What features could be introduced to reverse the trend, and increase the number of people wanting to come to null?
Before we get into the inevitable flame session that is General Discussion, I wanted to stress that I don't want this to be a "y u no pvp carebears" thread. There's enough of those already. Equally, for people who want to stay in highsec - that's fine too... nobody's forcing you to leave! |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
275
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Posted - 2012.06.20 00:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Easy. Introduce Interdiction Nullifier module -> A lot more activity in majority of formerly dead systems, a lot less in entrenched ratting heavens. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1280
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
ban npc corps nerf highsec station refining rate overhaul 0.0 industry in general add capital strip miner for rorquals that only works on low end ore
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1280
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Easy. Introduce Interdiction Nullifier module -> A lot more activity in majority of formerly dead systems, a lot less in entrenched ratting heavens. lack of bubbles made lowsec a bustling area, right? good plan bud |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
275
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:ban npc corps nerf highsec station refining rate overhaul 0.0 industry in general add capital strip miner for rorquals that only works on low end ore
Wrong move. This will herd not only highseccers, but also small null and lowsec people into mega sov null NAP trains, where they will stay in entrenched safe areas, making majority of null space more deserted than ever. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Adelphie
Paradox Collective Choke Point
47
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
sabre906 wrote: Null space doesn't lack rewards, just access.
I honestly think that this is a common misconception of nullsec. It's actually quite easy for anyone to get into with the use of the map and a scout. The problem is that once you get there, you can't really do a great deal unless you have somewhere to settle (e.g. station or POS), and the perceived risk is too great compared to other areas of the game for people to even attempt to get into null.
There are already interdiction nullifiers on T3's, but that has served mainly the current inhabitants rather than encouraging a new wave of residents. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1280
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:ban npc corps nerf highsec station refining rate overhaul 0.0 industry in general add capital strip miner for rorquals that only works on low end ore
Wrong move. This will herd not only highseccers, but also small null and lowsec people into mega sov null NAP trains, where they will stay in entrenched safe areas, making majority of null space more deserted than ever. So your answer is to make space unentrenchable, meaning all of it becomes deserted and unused. Nah, that soundsbackwards. More people using 0.0 space = more targets = more fun.
sabre906 wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: lack of bubbles made lowsec a bustling area, right? good plan bud
Lowsec parts that actually offers reward, like FW areas, are bustling. Null space doesn't lack rewards, just access. So the lesson you took from the success of the FW revamp is that you think it succeeded from lack of bubbles, not the nature of FW isk generation and gameplay
lol |
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Adelphie wrote: So my question to the masses is this: What features could be introduced to reverse the trend, and increase the number of people wanting to come to null?
Honest answer - I percieve null to be full of assholes. The sheer level of assholery on Eve, mainly from the direction of null, puts me off. I don't get the impression that it's a community I want to really be a part of. I know that not everyone who calls null home is an *******, and I don't doubt that there are even null corps with mostly decent people, but the general impression I get from what I see on the forums and from the alts in my (starter) corp is too negative for me to bother with.
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
239
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
How can you know that null sec is boring and safe and high sec "in many case" is more dangerous and yet come to the conclusion that high sec needs yet more nerfing?
If anything more risk requires more reward if we go by the often quoted null sec mantra... what are you thinking!? If you want null sec to be the dangerous place it was large protectorates are going to need to be broken.. so get off you high horse and go gank null seccers. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
377
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Null sec is famously dominated by large alliances, and this does not encourage smaller groups to head into null.
Null is very time consuming in design, and does not invite anything but semi-pro players.
The current cult of shooting non-combatants in high sec provides easy kills for those who live and die by the billboard.
These are the factors I think have killed null sec play. |
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1280
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote: Null is very time consuming in design, and does not invite anything but semi-pro players.
lol |
Adelphie
Paradox Collective Choke Point
47
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:How can you know that null sec is boring and safe and high sec "in many case" is more dangerous and yet come to the conclusion that high sec needs yet more nerfing?
If you're refering to the original post, then I fail to see where I came to the conclusion that highsec needs nerfing. Forcing players to move by the stick and not the carrot is not the right way to go. Boost null - yes, but nerfing highsec just pisses too many people off.
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masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
747
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Adelphie wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:How can you know that null sec is boring and safe and high sec "in many case" is more dangerous and yet come to the conclusion that high sec needs yet more nerfing? If you're refering to the original post, then I fail to see where I came to the conclusion that highsec needs nerfing. Forcing players to move by the stick and not the carrot is not the right way to go. Boost null - yes, but nerfing highsec just pisses too many people off.
Then use both the stick and the carrot and move all level 4s no lo sec. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
159
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Null sec is pretty rad. You poors should give it a try. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
747
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Here's the issue with using the carrot to push hi sec carebears into lo and null.
There are already people like me who are deeply entrenched in the existing lo and null gameplay. If you plant more carrots in our garden, we are in a perfect place to eat them before you even get there.
That means we will use your buff to get even deeper entrenched and you'll have an even stronger obstacle to entering lo and null.
By the way, if you want to get into null try living in outer ring. Its all NPC space with lots of space stations you can dock at. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1281
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 01:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Frederick Sanger wrote:Null sec is pretty rad. You poors should give it a try. sorry only semi-pro players are allowed in null |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
216
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 01:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Adelphie wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:How can you know that null sec is boring and safe and high sec "in many case" is more dangerous and yet come to the conclusion that high sec needs yet more nerfing? If you're refering to the original post, then I fail to see where I came to the conclusion that highsec needs nerfing. Forcing players to move by the stick and not the carrot is not the right way to go. Boost null - yes, but nerfing highsec just pisses too many people off. Then use both the stick and the carrot and move all level 4s no lo sec. As low already has lvl 4's, where is the carrot in this? |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
747
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 01:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: As low already has lvl 4's, where is the carrot in this?
L4 Missions removed from hi - stick More L4 Mission agents added to lo - carrot
Its a zero sum transaction. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
dontbanmebro
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Adelphie wrote:I've noticed the traffic in null slowly reducing to a point where it is actually safer to be around null than highsec in many cases!
citation needed |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1066
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
nuke hisec incursions, make it exclusive to lowsec
done, more people leave hisec, even if it's just daytrips to lowsec eh |
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masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
747
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:nuke hisec incursions, make it exclusive to lowsec
done, more people leave hisec, even if it's just daytrips to lowsec
+1 Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
216
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:L4 Missions removed from hi - stick More L4 Mission agents added to lo - carrot Your carrot needs work, doesn't really add anything new or more profitable. Just more of the same.
masternerdguy wrote:Its a zero sum transaction. If that were the case it wouldn't be worth asking for as nothing would change.
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masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
747
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Posted - 2012.06.20 01:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:masternerdguy wrote:L4 Missions removed from hi - stick More L4 Mission agents added to lo - carrot Your carrot needs work, doesn't really add anything new or more profitable. Just more of the same. masternerdguy wrote:Its a zero sum transaction. If that were the case it wouldn't be worth asking for as nothing would change.
Except now more people go to lo sec.
Which solves the problem of lo sec being depopulated. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
216
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 01:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote: Except now more people go to lo sec.
Which solves the problem of lo sec being depopulated.
Dunno, between the extra caution, needing to secure an area to run, losses, etc. and having this all exasperated by a higher population, unless you are already in the entrenched groups you mentioned, it sounds better to just smash 3's in highsec. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
747
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 01:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:masternerdguy wrote: Except now more people go to lo sec.
Which solves the problem of lo sec being depopulated.
Dunno, between the extra caution, needing to secure an area to run, losses, etc. and having this all exasperated by a higher population, unless you are already in the entrenched groups you mentioned, it sounds better to just smash 3's in highsec.
I'm fine with the hi sec slaves grinding away their lives for pennies in L3s.
I'll be in lo sec. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
216
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 01:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:masternerdguy wrote: Except now more people go to lo sec.
Which solves the problem of lo sec being depopulated.
Dunno, between the extra caution, needing to secure an area to run, losses, etc. and having this all exasperated by a higher population, unless you are already in the entrenched groups you mentioned, it sounds better to just smash 3's in highsec. I'm fine with the hi sec slaves grinding away their lives for pennies in L3s. I'll be in lo sec. To each his own, though considering how fast 3's can be done, it's not as bad as you think. Best profits come from wise use of LP anyways. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1282
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 01:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
If you want more people to move to 0.0 from highsec or whatever, you have 4 approaches to do so.
1) Increase reward in nullsec Pro: Don't have to change highsec. Con: The amount of increased isk needed to allure large amounts of characters from the low-risk world of highsec would have a significant effect on the game economy. Inflation is a problem people complain about now, after all.
2) Decrease risk in nullsec. Pro: More players will feel more confident taking the risk of moving into 0.0 Con: People complain about how hard it is to gank effective in null now.
3) Decrease reward in highsec Pro: seriously curbs isk injection, compels players to strike out in 0.0 if only to continue to pay their plex bill Con: highsec people will chew their own tongues in rage, doesn't address more serious problems in either region
4) Increase risk in highsec Pro: makes manufacturing economy more robust, allows highsec players to compete over use of resources Con: carebears don't like it, feel it will infringe on their 'right' not to PVP.
Personally, I think the way to go is moderate applications of #1 (by making 0.0 industry workable) and #4, by way of eliminating decshield and NPC corps (discourages 0.0 NPC corp logistic reliance, allow highsec to potentially pose a very hostile environment) |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1087
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 02:10:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Frederick Sanger wrote:Null sec is pretty rad. You poors should give it a try. sorry only semi-pro players are allowed in null The newbies in rifters take issue with that.
Rifters ~ Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
926
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 02:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
Adelphie wrote:So my question to the masses is this: What features could be introduced to reverse the trend, and increase the number of people wanting to come to null?
1. Nerf highsec mining. Severely. 2. Move Ice to Null. ALL Ice. 3. In conjunction with #1, buff nullsec and lowsec mining.
Ta da. You have successfully rebooted Nullsec's ecosystem. Nullsec now has miners, which means there are now small gangs preying on miners, which means there are small gangs protecting said miners, and it all snowballs from there. |
Kimmi Chan
Illuminatus Reforged The Revenant Order
124
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Posted - 2012.06.20 02:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Then use both the stick and the carrot and move all level 4s no lo sec.
I don't think you understand carebears anymore than carebears understand you. All Level 5s moved to low sec. Some people ran them others just continued to do Level 4s in High Sec.
If you move Level 4s to Low Sec some people will take a chance on them but many will just do Level 3s in High Sec instead and 2 years from now you will want Level 3s moved to Low Sec.
You solution does not get at the root of the problem. It is a knee jerk reaction designed to increase the number of targets in Low Sec for you to shoot at. But this kind of change will not bring about the desired result. Just as the migration of all Level 5s did not bring about the desired result.
I find it comical that you want to change the way people play so that they feel motivated to join you in Low and Null Sec and yet at every turn you seem to insult, disparage, and bully every person who does not agree with you. If you are any measure of the type of person that people will have to deal with in Low and Null Sec, it becomes clear why people stay in High Sec.
Here is another example of what people can look forward to in Null Sec.
I do not despise you for what you do. I do not lobby on the forums for changes in mechanics to make my game more safe or fun. I do not agree with your opinion though I do recognize your right to have one.
The staleness in Null Sec that the OP is trying to address is a direct result of the actions of the residents of that area. Many Null Sec residents believe that if they change High Sec it will invigorate Null Sec. Please explain to me how that works. Personally, I believe that if they wanted to make it less stale they have the means to do so already.
-á"Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus |
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