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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Lord Zim
861
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:38:00 -
[391] - Quote
Riedle wrote:I have spent just about my whole time in 0.0 for what's that worth No, you haven't.
Riedle wrote:my suggestion was in nerfing JB's to make force projection more difficult. It won't.
Riedle wrote:It would make it more difficult - no question. Nope.
Riedle wrote:It would also have other secondary effects of discouraging NAPFESTS It won't. |
Rer Eirikr
SniggWaffe
97
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:39:00 -
[392] - Quote
Riedle wrote:And to which I responded that no JB's would still make it more difficult and that I never offered it as the final answer, but it is part of it.
Been GOON RAGE ever since. lol
I do understand where you're coming from, I just think we need to be more comprehensive rather than just factoring "one piece of the puzzle".
Does that make sense?
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Lord Zim
861
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:39:00 -
[393] - Quote
Riedle wrote:And to which I responded that no JB's would still make it more difficult Please tell me you still think we're using JBs to ship down supplies with. |
Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
160
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:39:00 -
[394] - Quote
Quote:1) Do you live in Providence? NO
Quote:2) If not, did they take space that's actually worth the effort? Probably not - Geminate = crappy space
Quote:3) If not, do they still exist?[ Nope - gone now. |
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
327
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:40:00 -
[395] - Quote
I thought about moving to 0.0 with my corp, but as I do not mine, and cannot use team speak, I would have spent most of my time shooting belt rats or evading the reds.
Also, 0.0 politics bore me rigid. You want fries with that? |
Cameron Cahill
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
22
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:40:00 -
[396] - Quote
Do people not realize we would move fleets with titans if we didn't have jump bridges? The anti-NAP argument is invalid. So are the rest I'm just to lazy to go into details, especially since at least 5 other people already have. |
Cameron Cahill
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
22
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:41:00 -
[397] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I thought about moving to 0.0 with my corp, but as I do not mine, and cannot use team speak, I would have spent most of my time shooting belt rats or evading the reds.
Also, 0.0 politics bore me rigid.
So why are you posting here? |
Cameron Cahill
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
22
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:42:00 -
[398] - Quote
Riedle wrote:Quote:1) Do you live in Providence? NO Quote:2) If not, did they take space that's actually worth the effort? Probably not - Geminate = crappy space Quote:3) If not, do they still exist?[ Nope - gone now.
So 'non-aligned' reads 'renting'. |
Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
160
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:42:00 -
[399] - Quote
Quote:I have spent just about my whole time in 0.0 for what's that worth No, you haven't.
??? Uhh, yes, yes I have.
Quote:my suggestion was in nerfing JB's to make force projection more difficult. It won't.
Yes, you're correct - clearly JB's are worthless. (??)
Quote:It would make it more difficult - no question. Nope.
Did you ever ask yourself why your panties are in such a state at the mere suggestion of it then? lol
Quote:It would also have other secondary effects of discouraging NAPFESTS It won't.
Oh, ok lol |
Kieron VonDeux
39
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:43:00 -
[400] - Quote
Malphilos wrote:: I think it's force projection, as in logistics and forward basing.
Stuff that no one would ever use JBs for.
Actually, force projection or "power projection" is how far from ones home teritority can one conduct effective military operations, or the thread of such military operations. All the things that get forces from home to combat effect this.
In Eve, you can use a JB to get your combat ships from dispersed rear areas to a forward assembly area far safer than gate travel alone; which will directly affect how far and effective your org can project power around it as previously shown in this thread.
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Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
160
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:43:00 -
[401] - Quote
Rer Eirikr wrote:Riedle wrote:And to which I responded that no JB's would still make it more difficult and that I never offered it as the final answer, but it is part of it.
Been GOON RAGE ever since. lol I do understand where you're coming from, I just think we need to be more comprehensive rather than just factoring "one piece of the puzzle". Does that make sense?
Yes and I agree with it. If you care to look back I never said nering/getting rid of jb's was the final solution - only a part of it. |
Rer Eirikr
SniggWaffe
97
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:44:00 -
[402] - Quote
Kieron VonDeux wrote:In Eve, you can use a JB to get your combat ships from dispersed rear areas to a forward assembly area far safer than gate travel alone; which will directly affect how far and effective your org can project power around it as previously shown in this thread.
Along with a myriad of other ways. Seriously, we need to stop treating JBs like they're some isolated form of transportation here people. |
Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
160
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:45:00 -
[403] - Quote
Cameron Cahill wrote:Riedle wrote:Quote:1) Do you live in Providence? NO Quote:2) If not, did they take space that's actually worth the effort? Probably not - Geminate = crappy space Quote:3) If not, do they still exist?[ Nope - gone now. So 'non-aligned' reads 'renting'.
Nope, they weren't renters. To be fair the blocs were occupied with SOLAR etc etc but still was the first time and they were there for about 3 months. It was encouraging even if they were utterly terrible. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3555
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:50:00 -
[404] - Quote
Riedle wrote: look the question was asked and I gave my thoughts on the answer and one of my thoughts on the answer is the nerfing of JB's. There is nothing from the venom spewed my way to make me think that nerfing JB's isn't part of the answer but I never claimed it was the whole answer.
The venom is because nerfing jump bridges won't do any of the things people (like CCP greyscale) think nerfing them will do. Suggesting it betrays a deep lack of understanding of how projecting power in EVE works.
What it does do is make doing basic routine stuff in 0.0 more of a pain in the ass. All of our stations are spread out, so we have to travel a lot more to do the same thing. It doesn't actually affect "the blob", power projection, or logistics, all of which are done through other means. What it does affect is when you want to get from point A to point B for a boring, routine thing and want it to take 3 minutes instead of 10. |
Kieron VonDeux
41
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:52:00 -
[405] - Quote
Rer Eirikr wrote:Kieron VonDeux wrote:In Eve, you can use a JB to get your combat ships from dispersed rear areas to a forward assembly area far safer than gate travel alone; which will directly affect how far and effective your org can project power around it as previously shown in this thread. Along with a myriad of other ways. Seriously, we need to stop treating JBs like they're some isolated form of transportation here people.
You are right, they are part of the problem but not the whole problem.
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Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
327
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:53:00 -
[406] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: As low already has lvl 4's, where is the carrot in this?
L4 Missions removed from hi - stick More L4 Mission agents added to lo - carrot Its a zero sum transaction.
Once again I will go through this asinine idea for the benefit of Masternerd.
I will quite happily do level 4 missions in lo-sec, with the proviso that I am not attacked by one or more pvp fitted ships.
It is better to do Level 3 missions and complete them, than to die attempting level 4 missions to pvp fitted gangs in lo-sec.
Why do folk like Nerdmasterguy just not seem to understand this? You want fries with that? |
Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
160
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:56:00 -
[407] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Riedle wrote: look the question was asked and I gave my thoughts on the answer and one of my thoughts on the answer is the nerfing of JB's. There is nothing from the venom spewed my way to make me think that nerfing JB's isn't part of the answer but I never claimed it was the whole answer.
The venom is because nerfing jump bridges won't do any of the things people (like CCP greyscale) think nerfing them will do. Suggesting it betrays a deep lack of understanding of how projecting power in EVE works. What it does do is make doing basic routine stuff in 0.0 more of a pain in the ass. All of our stations are spread out, so we have to travel a lot more to do the same thing. It doesn't actually affect "the blob", power projection, or logistics, all of which are done through other means. What it does affect is when you want to get from point A to point B for a boring, routine thing and want it to take 3 minutes instead of 10.
And if a small gang was harassing one of your stations now you can just go through a jump bridge and you can have a 10-1 advantage in about 3 mins. Without JB's that would take you much longer thus forcing each station to be somewhat self sufficient and be able to fend off small roaming gangs themselves.
Not all PVP in null is about SOV or POS bashing. Maybe that's why you guys are having a hard time understanding the jump bridge aspect of my argument. |
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
111
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:57:00 -
[408] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:All of our stations are spread out, so we have to travel a lot more to do the same thing.It doesn't actually affect "the blob", power projection, or logistics, all of which are done through other means. What it does affect is when you want to get from point A to point B for a boring, routine thing and want it to take 3 minutes instead of 10.
There are some interesting definitions being used here.
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Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
7
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:57:00 -
[409] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Why do folk like Nerdmasterguy just not seem to understand this? I think to yank your chain. This is why I ignore him and those like him on the forum, but don't tell him that. |
Rer Eirikr
SniggWaffe
97
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:58:00 -
[410] - Quote
Malphilos wrote:Weaselior wrote:All of our stations are spread out, so we have to travel a lot more to do the same thing.It doesn't actually affect "the blob", power projection, or logistics, all of which are done through other means. What it does affect is when you want to get from point A to point B for a boring, routine thing and want it to take 3 minutes instead of 10. There are some interesting definitions being used here.
Let's get real here, JFs hardly use JBs, and those that do often more than not deserve to die.
Logistics being synonymous with Jump Freighters. |
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Equus
Royal Order of Security Specialists Late Night Alliance
6
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Posted - 2012.06.20 19:01:00 -
[411] - Quote
I haven't read every post, though there have been some good ones, I still see a lot of the "This is the way that I believe the game should be played, all others should play the same as me, if only to provide more targets.". Fact is eve is a sandbox and there is no good reason that someone should be forced out of high-sec just because you want more people in null. Nerfing those that enjoy the high-sec life will only cause people to quit, if they don't want to play the game the same way you do, nothing you can do will change this.
I have tried null sec, I don't see why I should move out there again, issues I have:
1. Alliance turns out to be ******, no one defends but just docks up when nuets/reds enter the system. 2. To find good targets if I am based deep in null sec I have to travel 20+ systems. 3. Bubbles, sorry, I know they have a purpose, and yes there are ways to deal with them, but I don't like them and I don't want to deal with them. 4. CTA's and deployments, I have talked to a couple null sec corps that have actual deployments. Now I guess that is kind of fun if that is what you are into, but one corp had three week deployments in which you were not allowed to go anywhere or do anything outside of your deployed region. No thanks, I like to pew pew when I feel like it and relax and carebear it up when I feel like it. 5. Politics 6. Logistics of getting equipment on your own schedule and not waiting until there is a chance that your corp may have room on the next JF. 7. Gate camps, woohoo, lets spend 2 hours sitting on a gate in the hopes that a target or two may come through.
Address all of those issues and I will consider going back, until then I will get my PvP fix in low-sec and the occasional high-sec war, and relax while I farm L4's and watch movies during my downtime. You want more targets, move to low sec, farm us silly FW pilots and fight the various corps that live in low, they are out there.
Here is an idea, I want more targets in low, I think CCP should nerf null, make moon goo exclusive to low sec, yadda, yadda, yadda, play the game my way.
It is not that there is no incentive to go out, there is, better mining, upgraded systems etc., you can definitely do better isk wise, I just don't want to deal with all the other crap that goes along with it.
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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1083
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:02:00 -
[412] - Quote
Riedle wrote:And if a small gang was harassing one of your stations now you can just go through a jump bridge and you can have a 10-1 advantage in about 3 mins. Without JB's that would take you much longer thus forcing each station to be somewhat self sufficient and be able to fend off small roaming gangs themselves.
so you want your gang to have all of the advantages in somebody else's space
i see eh |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3555
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:02:00 -
[413] - Quote
if you are unwilling to face the risks inherent with the income stream of l4s then you should receive less reward: forcing you to switch to l3s as the price of safety is entirely appropriate |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1296
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Posted - 2012.06.20 19:02:00 -
[414] - Quote
Malphilos wrote:Weaselior wrote:All of our stations are spread out, so we have to travel a lot more to do the same thing.It doesn't actually affect "the blob", power projection, or logistics, all of which are done through other means. What it does affect is when you want to get from point A to point B for a boring, routine thing and want it to take 3 minutes instead of 10. There are some interesting definitions being used here. High-level logistics on the terms that Weaselior talks about involves 0.0 > hisec supply transports on an alliance-wide level, which are far more significant then anything a jump bridge is used for. I could start listing examples of what JBs are actually used for (hint: when we fought the DRF we didn't form up in Querious and fly out to Insmother using jump bridges every day) but you can take my word on it. |
Lord Zim
861
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Posted - 2012.06.20 19:04:00 -
[415] - Quote
Riedle wrote:And if a small gang was harassing one of your stations now you can just go through a jump bridge and you can have a 10-1 advantage in about 3 mins. Without JB's that would take you much longer thus forcing each station to be somewhat self sufficient and be able to fend off small roaming gangs themselves. So we've gone from "you regularly travelled back and forth all the way from deklein to delve every day during the freeporting" to "you freighter ships to forward staging systems via JBs" to ... home defense fleets using JBs.
I see. |
Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
160
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:05:00 -
[416] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Riedle wrote:And if a small gang was harassing one of your stations now you can just go through a jump bridge and you can have a 10-1 advantage in about 3 mins. Without JB's that would take you much longer thus forcing each station to be somewhat self sufficient and be able to fend off small roaming gangs themselves. so you want your gang to have all of the advantages in somebody else's space i see
No, that would be me asking for us to have the right to use your JB's. lol
I see that you see Null sec as a giant care bear unicorn land where you have to form up everyonce once in a while to protect the princess.
I see it as a cut throat kill or be killed haven and want to keep it that way.
Maybe you would be better off in high sec? |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3556
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:06:00 -
[417] - Quote
Riedle wrote: And if a small gang was harassing one of your stations now you can just go through a jump bridge and you can have a 10-1 advantage in about 3 mins. Without JB's that would take you much longer thus forcing each station to be somewhat self sufficient and be able to fend off small roaming gangs themselves.
There's so much nonsense in this I can't even respond succintly. This is a nonsensical view of why people don't small-gang pvp, it's a nonsensical idea of nullsec to begin with ("each station being self-sufficient") it's just nonsensical everything. People don't fight small roaming gangs because it's usually pointless and just encourages more roaming gangs, and the roaming gangs can't actually do anything if you just dock up your ratting ship, and my god this is just so dumb. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3556
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:07:00 -
[418] - Quote
not to mention this is the worst case of your argument making no sense and getting owned so you say it was something else that i have seen today |
Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
160
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:08:00 -
[419] - Quote
Quote:So we've gone from "you regularly travelled back and forth all the way from deklein to delve every day during the freeporting" to "you freighter ships to forward staging systems via JBs" to ... home defense fleets using JBs.
I see.
Dude, I don't even know what you are talking about anymore.
You do realize that you are the only one talking about trips to fountain or delve or deklein and stuff right?
lol I see you must have enjoyed that in EVE and are quite proud of it - lol good for you *Pats Head* I'm sure you were a good order taker. good for you. Everyone here is proud I'm sure.
Now, if you are able to stop reliving your past internet spaceship glories perhaps you could enter into the debate?
That's a boy. |
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
7
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Posted - 2012.06.20 19:09:00 -
[420] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Riedle wrote:And if a small gang was harassing one of your stations now you can just go through a jump bridge and you can have a 10-1 advantage in about 3 mins. Without JB's that would take you much longer thus forcing each station to be somewhat self sufficient and be able to fend off small roaming gangs themselves. so you want your gang to have all of the advantages in somebody else's space i see I wouldn't think they'd have all the advantages. One would think if this proposed JB nerf went into effect, then the defending force would adapt accordingly. |
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