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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services
13
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Posted - 2012.06.20 13:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
Trolling aside (let me know your J number and I'll come show you how to run anoms)...
C5s aren't the place for 2 people (unless you have 3 accounts each) - out of boredom once I tried soloing a site with a carrier - it took an average of 250 seconds to kill each of the initial 6x guardians and I'd estimate it would have taken about an hour to do the entire site (I jammed out the ships scramming me and warped out before site completion)... compared to <20 minutes fully escalated with 4 chars + gangbooster.
(Dunno if anyone else have ever tested it but alternating between firbolgs and einherji showed a massive difference in actual applied dps on sleeper battleships - I was getting ~880dps average with firbolgs but only a little over 300dps with einherji - need to test the other 2 at some point but I didn't have any with me).
EDIT: Out of interest were you planning on armor tanking the tengu or putting a shield repper on the archon? |
Hathrul
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
94
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lunarstorm95 wrote:I currently live in a C3 WH with another friend we make decent money but want to upgrade. I will be getting into Archon soon.
Was wondering if a compensation of a pimped out tengu and a Archon would be enough to do a C5 anom?
Now i haven't looked much into c5s that's y i am asking.
With what we have to work with can we do these sites?
Please don't criticize im just wondering if what we have available is enough to upgrade whs
If not what else wud we need?
Also idk much about Cap escalation, can some on give me a rundown of that?
Thanks in advance for the CONTRUCTIVE criticism.
no. 2 people arent enough to do class 5 sites, unless you have a lot of alts.
Capital escalations are simple. you warp a capital in, and it spawns 6 more sleeper battleships. the 2nd capital of the same class will spawn 8 more. These battleships are much stronger then the normal battleships in c5's, which are a lot stronger then those in a c3.
the main problem you have is simple dps. the carrier can be neglected for that since the drones will just die. its there as a logistics platform, not to do damage. so the only thing you have for damage is a tengu. The tengu will simply lack the damage to finish sites, it wont be able to overcome the RR from the sleepers. basically, youll be stuck in the site untill infinity, or, if your carrier is badly fit untill its neuted out (and yes, this is a real thread in c5 and c6, even for capitals)
what else would you need? a lot more pilots. with less then 5 dps pilots you simply shouldnt be trying to do c5 sites |
SojournerRover
Insidious Design
16
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
Finally someone who isn't just here to troll! ROVER (REDRUM)
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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services
13
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
Hathrul wrote:[quote=Lunarstorm95]
the main problem you have is simple dps. the carrier can be neglected for that since the drones will just die. its there as a logistics platform, not to do damage. so the only thing you have for damage is a tengu. The tengu will simply lack the damage to finish sites, it wont be able to overcome the RR from the sleepers. basically, youll be stuck in the site untill infinity, or, if your carrier is badly fit untill its neuted out (and yes, this is a real thread in c5 and c6, even for capitals)
what else would you need? a lot more pilots. with less then 5 dps pilots you simply shouldnt be trying to do c5 sites
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the carrier - tho I'm not entirely sure I'm in favor of the fit - either using figthers with sebo(s)/target slot increase mods or sentry drones with damage mods you can put down a fair amount of effective DPS and can tank the guardians out of triage fine with the "right" fit. I'm not a fan of using a carrier without a support fleet and a proper PVP fit on it though but if you were trying to do them with just 2 people that would be somewhat academic anyhow.
If you were trying to do them with just carrier + subcaps I don't reccomend doing them with anything less than a combined ~2.5k dps i.e. carrier + nightmare x2 or carrier + nightmare + tengu x2, etc. |
chris elliot
EG CORP Talocan United
19
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Posted - 2012.06.20 19:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
Mr Bigwinky wrote:chris elliot wrote:It also helps peoples temperaments when you don't type like a f*king idiot and use decent grammar.
Seriously now, its not that hard. Well Chris, if you love grammar so much then you will be happy to see that I have fixed yours. fixed grammar wrote:It also helps peopleGÇÖs temperaments when you don't type like a f*king idiot and use decent grammar.
Seriously now, itGÇÖs not that hard.
Decent does not mean perfect my friend. |
Hathrul
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
94
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Posted - 2012.06.20 21:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Hathrul wrote:[quote=Lunarstorm95]
the main problem you have is simple dps. the carrier can be neglected for that since the drones will just die. its there as a logistics platform, not to do damage. so the only thing you have for damage is a tengu. The tengu will simply lack the damage to finish sites, it wont be able to overcome the RR from the sleepers. basically, youll be stuck in the site untill infinity, or, if your carrier is badly fit untill its neuted out (and yes, this is a real thread in c5 and c6, even for capitals)
what else would you need? a lot more pilots. with less then 5 dps pilots you simply shouldnt be trying to do c5 sites I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the carrier - tho I'm not entirely sure I'm in favor of the fit - either using fighters with sebo(s)/target slot increase mods or sentry drones with damage mods you can put down a fair amount of effective DPS and can tank the guardians out of triage fine with the "right" fit. I'm not a fan of using a carrier without a support fleet and a proper PVP fit on it though but if you were trying to do them with just 2 people that would be somewhat academic anyhow. If you were trying to do them with just carrier + subcaps I don't reccomend doing them with anything less than a combined ~2.5k dps i.e. carrier + nightmare x2 or carrier + nightmare + tengu x2, etc.
from experience i know that killing the elite BS with a carrier takes ages. and the drones will die as well, though fighters can be repped in time. simply said, its not viable |
Vik Flagge
Sons Of Pain Asshat Vendetta
0
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Posted - 2012.06.20 22:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
This thread is epic. But in all seriousness, being able to run a site is not the biggest concern when deciding whether you can handle a given class of wormhole. With only 2 people involved, almost any wandering fleet will destroy you. The bigger and badder your ships are, the more you're going to lose to the PVP side of the fence. With only two people running sites, don't fly anything that costs more than a billion and a half per ship, and by extension, don't attempt any sites you can't pull off in a 1.5 billion isk tech 3. Stick to C3's, tops. Multibillion isk ships that can duo C4 premiums will still pop when a battlecruiser fleet jumps them, so only run those kind of fittings with a decent sized fleet. Unless you don't mind factoring in massive losses into your overhead. |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services
13
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Posted - 2012.06.20 23:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hathrul wrote: from experience i know that killing the elite BS with a carrier takes ages. and the drones will die as well, though fighters can be repped in time. simply said, its not viable
I wasn't meaning to solo them with the carrier just that along with a minimal amount of ships they can be setup to provide a reasonable amount of dps as well as repping - even with 2-3 ships in support the aggression on fighters is much reduced. |
Tisisan
Hard Knocks Inc.
1
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Posted - 2012.06.21 04:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
Klarion Sythis wrote:That's what Bernie wanted.
I wanted you to die horribly.
:thumbs up:
In a completely unrelated note...
WTB entrance to J152720. |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
60
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Posted - 2012.06.21 09:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
Please please please tell us what the name of your new c5 is going to be. We just want to help you out |
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
91
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Posted - 2012.06.21 09:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lunarstorm95 wrote:Then let me revamp my question
What is needed for people to move from a c3 to a c5?
More than 2 people with the total of 1 archon and 1 tengu
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Gajana
Clann Fian
1
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Posted - 2012.06.21 10:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
hey c4 with c3 static might be better for you guys... oh wait...
http://eve-kill.net/?a=system_detail&sys_id=7079
Better luck with setting up tower next time :P |
Malcom Vincent
9
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Webber and dread? EVE Stratics! Managing Editor Interviews, Guides, Reviews and more! |
Marsan
Production N Destruction INC.
35
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Posted - 2012.06.23 16:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
The basic problem the OP has is he hears C5-6 great loot, and thinks why should I share the great loot. When the reality is that:
1) You need 4 well fit ships with some sort of logi support to run even the low end sites. http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=CoreGarrison
2) The massive loot people talk about in C5-6 is partially due to capital escalation. If you bring 3 carriers/dreads that's 22 additional BS.
3) Another great source loot is the Radar/Mag sites which even tougher than many 100% sites. http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=UnsecuredFrontierEnclaveRelay |
Darth Nadz
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.06.25 15:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
The radar/mag sites are not tougher if you just loot the containers. Use to raid those sites with a couple other people when not enough were logged in and made plenty of isk. Just keep the one trigger alive and use ec drones while analyzing/hacking the site. Only site that can be tough is a random trigger site. Did one of those once.
Biggest concern is getting evicted from a c5 hole since you won't have enough to defend against what will come against you. Just make more isk than you lose which isn't hard to do in a c5.
One site was time consuming since we couldn't break the rr chain and that was the random spawn site we did. Fortunetly someone else logged on and we got just enough to break it after about an hour on site. Also watched a raven go poof on our first cap escalation since the carrier rep hadn't cycled yet and all six sleeper bs missiles impacted as guns fire hit right before and right after the missiles impacted. Didn't matter though as the corp paid for the loss from that site and we all still made 250mil each. Both of these were done in our CV c5/c5 too, so yeah.
Usually did 200 to 300 mil a site for the radar/mags and don't even get me talking about the 2 big gas sites and reactions. Basically stay out of c5s though if you aren't willing to except that you can make far more than you can lose unless really bad luck and/or idiocy are traits. |
joebro1060
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
7
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Posted - 2012.06.26 02:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
To the OP, yes, a carrier and tengu will die a horrible death in any combat anom in a c5. If you just want to make isk, you could toss up a small tower in an uninhabited c5 and mine all the gas you can find. Vital gas sites net about 1bil each in gas. When you warp a carrier into a 100%anom, a mag site, or a radar site an additional 6 BS will spawn. Those 6 BS, along with the original spawn can break your pimped carrier's fit and then turn your pimped tengu into a mangled mass of crap. Do not expect to do anoms and mag sites with only 2 people. As I said earlier, you could move into a c5 and ninja as much gas out as you can, and possibly do sites in a neighboring c3 or whatever. 2 people protecting a wh will not stand up to much at all so whatever you bring in, expect to loose. if you recruit a few more corp members you can do 100% anoms with 4 RR tengus. That is a little slow, but profit is nice when you only split it 4 ways. |
Hathrul
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
94
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Posted - 2012.06.26 11:44:00 -
[47] - Quote
joebro1060 wrote: Those 6 BS, along with the original spawn can break your pimped carrier's fit
you need to learn how to fly a carrier. you dont even have to traige with a dual escalation that gives 12 of those bs. |
Lenier Chenal
Meritoc Industries Inc. SRS.
16
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Posted - 2012.06.27 19:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
This thread is wonderful, +1 would read again. |
Moirae Nemesis
Bite Me inc Exhale.
4
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Posted - 2012.06.28 21:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
you got taunted by clann fian. shame on you.
now there is a small inaccuracy in this thread i would like to rectify. (disregarding recent events.) Exhale. would not remove your pos just simply because you are a two man corp. We might siege your tower since its going to be a small one, and it takes less than 10min to do so. But we will not stick around with a fleet when it goes into full reinforced mode for the 1day16h59,99s.
Back on Topic I also warmly recommend the speedtanking nano nid. Try combining it with a speedtanking Mach. You know they are the best. |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Overclockers Podpilot Services
14
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Posted - 2012.06.28 22:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
joebro1060 wrote:To the OP, yes, a carrier and tengu will die a horrible death in any combat anom in a c5. If you just want to make isk, you could toss up a small tower in an uninhabited c5 and mine all the gas you can find. Vital gas sites net about 1bil each in gas. When you warp a carrier into a 100%anom, a mag site, or a radar site an additional 6 BS will spawn. Those 6 BS, along with the original spawn can break your pimped carrier's fit and then turn your pimped tengu into a mangled mass of crap. Do not expect to do anoms and mag sites with only 2 people. As I said earlier, you could move into a c5 and ninja as much gas out as you can, and possibly do sites in a neighboring c3 or whatever. 2 people protecting a wh will not stand up to much at all so whatever you bring in, expect to loose. if you recruit a few more corp members you can do 100% anoms with 4 RR tengus. That is a little slow, but profit is nice when you only split it 4 ways.
Probably would die a horrible death without any previous experience but I've managed to do a C5 site with just a carrier properly fit (tho I did have a mindlinked booster alt buffing my tank) its just extremely slow. But yeah those guardians can quite easily kill a capital if you don't know what your doing. |
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Yummy Tears
The Red Circle Inc.
9
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Posted - 2012.06.28 23:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
This thread... I don't even.
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stup idity
8
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Posted - 2012.06.29 09:38:00 -
[52] - Quote
Maybe a serious suggestion for a change:
If you want to upgrade, move to a c4 (maybe with a static c4). All anomalies can be done with three (tech 2 fitted) Tengus in reasonable time and will bring you around half a billion income per hour.
You will need: - One nice large tower with lots of hardeners and ecm which has to look as unattractive as possible otherwise. - Some ships to close wormholes if needed (Orca or some Battleships, Batlecruisers with 100mn propulsion mods). - Probing alts - more than one would be good. One of them will always probe for new signatures when you are running sites; the other is for backup only and shouldn't log in at all. - The usual stuff for running and salvaging sites of course. Consider gas mining - nice bonus income.
You won't need: - Many pvp ships (maybe a bomber or two), mining stuff, production and research facilities, capitals and probably lots more that you might think of right now and I don't.
If you can't bring those things listed above, stay where you are as moving up will only increase effort and/or risk and will not give you any more rewards.
I reign supreme. |
Ashimat
Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost
29
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Posted - 2012.06.29 10:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
Quote:If you want to upgrade, move to a c4 (maybe with a static c4). All anomalies can be done with three (tech 2 fitted) Tengus in reasonable time and will bring you around half a billion income per hour.
Now lets see... the loot from a normal C4 plex sells for just over 100M i would think? To make half a billion per hour with three Tengus you would need to do them in 12 min. Thats including salvage. And setup-time. And scanning-time. And transport to empire. And maybe time to close or crit WHs for safety.
Reasonable? Yea, maybe.
The ISK/time for plexing is great if you start the timer at warp-in and stop it when last sleeper dies. It don't think you would quite get the same numbers if you would take everything into account.
For a game in which people spend hours and hours discussing fits where half of a percent's better performance can cost millions of ISK i find it funny that "income" is often calculated a bit... if not carelessly, so at least theoretically. http://rnat-postmortem.blogspot.se |
stup idity
8
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Posted - 2012.06.29 11:40:00 -
[54] - Quote
The "half billion" per hour (of pure site running) was just to give a comparable under simplified preconditions - same as most people use that are mentioning c5 income for example: a) You know your holes b) you have your ships and you have your fleet ready c) and of course have some anos available.
This can take a while, but can also be quite fast some times. It also depends a lot on how you look at it - as precondition to fly anos or just as things that raise the opportunity to fly anos when they are available. The latter is often the case in my corp; no players to shoot at were to be found, all holes are scouted and our current static c4 has nobody active and a couple anomalies. From this point on everything it's the before mentioned half billion per hour (or whatever depending on number of people participating).
I also don't really count hauling the loot out, because sooner or later you will go to empire for other reasons (like fuel blocks) and can do it then.
If you start taking costs and time for the pos setup into account, you can also look at fitting and buying your ships, reading the forum and everything else, but I think this will be too complex to get any realistic numbers for that.
One good thing to start with would be: find a home that already has lots of anomalies waiting for you, so you can take your investments out of the equation after the first few days and only go for profit. Good thing is, there are lots of empty and quiet c4s that make this possible.
I reign supreme. |
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