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Dabljuh
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Posted - 2010.01.28 11:55:00 -
[721]
Originally by: Tagami Wasp Have you ever tried hitting a Ranis ABing @ 70Km perpendicular to your line of attack in an Eagle? You are tickling his shields and will never take him down, and that in a HAC. And you want to nerf tracking?
Now I seriously must have you STFU and go back and actually read this thread. I've brought an extensive analysis detailed in numberous posts why the fact that you're even tickling the ranis in that situation means you have orders of magnitude too much tracking. Read the goddamned thread because otherwise I'll just be repeating myself over and over. And yeah - you still didn't bring an argument as to why tracking shouldn't get nerfed, all you brought is an argument for insulting you for your arrogance.
Quote: P.S. In the last thread I commented about a W/S a dev replied specifically to my comment, so I presume that they, as well as the CSM, read threadnaughts about game balance issues. Of course they could always be ignoring just YOU
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware of your central importance to the world of EVE, how could I have known the EVE balancing process solely revolves around your personal amount of whinage. In the future, I shall try to make you whine about things, whenever I feel things in the game need changing.
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wallenbergaren
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Posted - 2010.01.28 13:33:00 -
[722]
The point is, he thinks you're theorycrafting and so do I
How many sniper fights have you actually been in? A few pages back you were making very inaccurate statements about them
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marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2010.01.28 13:51:00 -
[723]
Originally by: Dabljuh
A general, strong reduction in tracking would make blasters far superior to other weapons at 4.5km, simply by making the other turrets miss more often.
Your dreaming buddy.
scenario 1.
1 laser bs vs 1 blaster bs both webbing each other ok?.
lets include pilots with brians:
The pulse BS is burning in a str8 line to reduce transversal effect on its lasers and the blaster BS trying to orbit to increase the transversal ok?.....
The lasers would neeed to have their tracking nerfed to dreadnought blaster levels to see any real measurable effect.
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Dabljuh
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Posted - 2010.01.28 15:47:00 -
[724]
Originally by: marakor 1 laser bs vs 1 blaster bs both webbing each other ok?.
Stop you right there. In that case, both ships are equipped to fight within blaster range. Blasters still have a mild DPS advantage - but consider this: Your average pulse boat has less mid slots than your average blaster BS and will prefer to keep a short ranged BS target at 20+kms.
I'm not saying it should be impossible to track, I'm saying it should take some effort, such as fitting modules or even downsize the guns (my suggestion gives the smaller tiers significantly more tracking than the higher tiers)
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2010.01.28 16:04:00 -
[725]
I may be strange in this, but I think instant reload would help hybrids greatly, you can start them out at long range dam, switch to shorter range when the opportunity arises, it also helps effective DPS (though only a minute amount).
This also would help differentiation in weapon types, Lasers have instant reloading lasting ammo, projectiles have non-instant reloading, non-lasting ammo, hybrids would fall between them with instant reloading, non-lasting ammo, drones can be argued to be non-instant reloading, lasting ammo.
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Grut
The Protei
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Posted - 2010.01.28 17:06:00 -
[726]
Originally by: Dabljuh
Originally by: marakor 1 laser bs vs 1 blaster bs both webbing each other ok?.
Stop you right there. In that case, both ships are equipped to fight within blaster range. Blasters still have a mild DPS advantage - but consider this: Your average pulse boat has less mid slots than your average blaster BS and will prefer to keep a short ranged BS target at 20+kms.
I'm not saying it should be impossible to track, I'm saying it should take some effort, such as fitting modules or even downsize the guns (my suggestion gives the smaller tiers significantly more tracking than the higher tiers)
Pure theory crafting, your assumptions are based off 1v1 only... in a multi same class battle who gives a crap about tracking?
For blasters to do anything outside 1v1's they need to out damage lasers by a fair margin to account for travel time, as simple as. Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.01.28 18:52:00 -
[727]
Isn't this thread about railguns? Just asking... ------------ Railgun performance required fix: - +15% railgun damage modifier - +10% PG for Caldari railgun ships |
Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.01.28 20:19:00 -
[728]
Originally by: Grut
Originally by: Dabljuh
Originally by: marakor 1 laser bs vs 1 blaster bs both webbing each other ok?.
Stop you right there. In that case, both ships are equipped to fight within blaster range. Blasters still have a mild DPS advantage - but consider this: Your average pulse boat has less mid slots than your average blaster BS and will prefer to keep a short ranged BS target at 20+kms.
I'm not saying it should be impossible to track, I'm saying it should take some effort, such as fitting modules or even downsize the guns (my suggestion gives the smaller tiers significantly more tracking than the higher tiers)
Pure theory crafting, your assumptions are based off 1v1 only... in a multi same class battle who gives a crap about tracking?
For blasters to do anything outside 1v1's they need to out damage lasers by a fair margin to account for travel time, as simple as.
You should start a "Blaster balance,when do they get some love ?" thread
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marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2010.01.29 12:53:00 -
[729]
Originally by: Dabljuh
Originally by: marakor 1 laser bs vs 1 blaster bs both webbing each other ok?.
Stop you right there. In that case, both ships are equipped to fight within blaster range.
The abaddon has the same slot layout as the mega so its a given it will have its mids setup with a web.
Originally by: Dabljuh Blasters still have a mild DPS advantage.
Wrong.
After resists from each ships available tank are taken into account the baddon out damages the mega by a quite good margin, and it also has a larger tank.
EXAMPLE:
THESE FIGURES ARE FROM STANDARDLY FITTED RR MEGAS AND ABADDONS (as nobody fits 3 mag stabs on a RR mega).
Your mega starts with 7 guns and RR with 832 gun dps and 300 drone dps to be assigned.
300 thermal drone dmg from gaurd less 75.7% = 72.9 DPS. 482.56 kinetic damage from its guns less 71.9% = 135.6 DPS. 394.44 thermal damage from its guns less 75.7% = 84.9 DPS.
YOUR MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABADDON.
4. Your mega has 73.4 em, 65.5 thermal resists and the abaddon does 58% more EM dmg with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the megas resists:
The abaddon starts with 7 guns and RR with 802 gun dps and 180 drone dps to be assigned.
180 thr drone dmg less 65.5% = 62.1 DPS. 465.16 gun em damage less 73.4% = 123.8 DPS. 336.84 gun th damage less 65.5% = 116.2 DPS. THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 0-15KM vs THE MEGA. THE MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 0-4.5KM vs THE ABAD.
Your mega actually has 3% LESS DPS and 300% less range, and a WEAK 52.2% explosive resist hole and also has 18% LESS EHP.
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NightmareX
Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.29 13:45:00 -
[730]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: Dabljuh
Originally by: marakor 1 laser bs vs 1 blaster bs both webbing each other ok?.
Stop you right there. In that case, both ships are equipped to fight within blaster range.
The abaddon has the same slot layout as the mega so its a given it will have its mids setup with a web.
Originally by: Dabljuh Blasters still have a mild DPS advantage.
Wrong.
After resists from each ships available tank are taken into account the baddon out damages the mega by a quite good margin, and it also has a larger tank.
EXAMPLE:
THESE FIGURES ARE FROM STANDARDLY FITTED RR MEGAS AND ABADDONS (as nobody fits 3 mag stabs on a RR mega).
Your mega starts with 7 guns and RR with 832 gun dps and 300 drone dps to be assigned.
300 thermal drone dmg from gaurd less 75.7% = 72.9 DPS. 482.56 kinetic damage from its guns less 71.9% = 135.6 DPS. 394.44 thermal damage from its guns less 75.7% = 84.9 DPS.
YOUR MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABADDON.
4. Your mega has 73.4 em, 65.5 thermal resists and the abaddon does 58% more EM dmg with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the megas resists:
The abaddon starts with 7 guns and RR with 802 gun dps and 180 drone dps to be assigned.
180 thr drone dmg less 65.5% = 62.1 DPS. 465.16 gun em damage less 73.4% = 123.8 DPS. 336.84 gun th damage less 65.5% = 116.2 DPS. THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 0-15KM vs THE MEGA. THE MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 0-4.5KM vs THE ABAD.
Your mega actually has 3% LESS DPS and 300% less range, and a WEAK 52.2% explosive resist hole and also has 18% LESS EHP.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG, and we are ALL OVER IT again with the same nosense and crap you always spew out. And with the same crap as you always have been proven to be terribly wrong in.
I will say it one more time. Learn to use a good setup on both ship and learn to do math.
Those stats you have here is horrible.
Director of Infinitus Odium. |
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.01.29 14:34:00 -
[731]
Originally by: NightmareX
Those stats you have here is horrible.
In what way? If he's wrong, rip his math or methods apart.
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NightmareX
Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.29 15:08:00 -
[732]
Edited by: NightmareX on 29/01/2010 15:16:20
Originally by: Seriously Bored
Originally by: NightmareX
Those stats you have here is horrible.
In what way? If he's wrong, rip his math or methods apart.
I have done it multiple times before with the exact same copy and paste stuff marakor wrote over, and all of the times i have done it, it have been proven that he's using a good setup on the Abaddon while the setup on the Mega are rather crap. And he did some few errors in his math to.
Just look up on those earlier Blaster topics to find the proof.
One of the things i found out is that when both the Mega and the Abaddon used very similar setup with 7 guns and one RR each and when the Mega used 1 MFS while the Abaddon used 2 HS, then still, the Mega did more DPS than the Abaddon after the resists. I think the Mega did like 9.6% more DPS than the Abaddon there while the Abaddon had 13% more armor HP over the Mega.
Director of Infinitus Odium. |
Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.01.29 16:20:00 -
[733]
Assembly Hall thread here.
It's only for railguns, if you want a Blaster Needs some love thread, create one. ------------ Railgun performance required fix: - +15% railgun damage modifier - +10% PG for Caldari railgun ships |
lil Ghork
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Posted - 2010.01.29 16:47:00 -
[734]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: Dabljuh
Originally by: marakor 1 laser bs vs 1 blaster bs both webbing each other ok?.
Stop you right there. In that case, both ships are equipped to fight within blaster range.
The abaddon has the same slot layout as the mega so its a given it will have its mids setup with a web.
Originally by: Dabljuh Blasters still have a mild DPS advantage.
Wrong.
After resists from each ships available tank are taken into account the baddon out damages the mega by a quite good margin, and it also has a larger tank.
EXAMPLE:
THESE FIGURES ARE FROM STANDARDLY FITTED RR MEGAS AND ABADDONS (as nobody fits 3 mag stabs on a RR mega).
Your mega starts with 7 guns and RR with 832 gun dps and 300 drone dps to be assigned.
300 thermal drone dmg from gaurd less 75.7% = 72.9 DPS. 482.56 kinetic damage from its guns less 71.9% = 135.6 DPS. 394.44 thermal damage from its guns less 75.7% = 84.9 DPS.
YOUR MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABADDON.
4. Your mega has 73.4 em, 65.5 thermal resists and the abaddon does 58% more EM dmg with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the megas resists:
The abaddon starts with 7 guns and RR with 802 gun dps and 180 drone dps to be assigned.
180 thr drone dmg less 65.5% = 62.1 DPS. 465.16 gun em damage less 73.4% = 123.8 DPS. 336.84 gun th damage less 65.5% = 116.2 DPS. THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA.
THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 0-15KM vs THE MEGA. THE MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 0-4.5KM vs THE ABAD.
Your mega actually has 3% LESS DPS and 300% less range, and a WEAK 52.2% explosive resist hole and also has 18% LESS EHP.
So because Abaddon has a resist bonus it recieves less dmg, nice comparison there sporty. Really shouldn't this be a thread about weapon systems not about ships, also tittle seems to indicate rails not blasters.
Abaddon is also a t3 BS and mroe expencive
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Jacob Stov
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Posted - 2010.02.01 19:05:00 -
[735]
Well I thought long about it, so here are my ideas:
Gallente ships get RoF instead of damage bonus + a buff to agility. Caldari get 10% more grid + 15% optimal bonus for T1., 5% damage bonus instead of second optimal bonus for T2.
Then I would like to see a change to ammo:
Antimatter: 70% therm 30% kin damage -50% optimal
Plutonium: 70% kin 30% therm damage -25% optimal Uranium: 70% therm 30% kin damage -25% optimal
Thorium 70% kin 30% therm damage Lead 70% therm 30% kin damage
Iridium 70% kin 30% therm damage +25% optimal Tungsten 70% therm 30% kin damage +25% optimal
Iron 70% kin 30% therm damage +50% optimal
Those grouped together will share the same damage mod, just with different damage preference. The kinetic damage ammo will reduce RoF by 10% while increasing damage mod by 10%. Thermal damage ammo will increase fallof by 20% while consuming 10% more cap.
In the end thermal damage ammo will have a slight dps advantage over kinetic ammo at the cost of cap consumption.
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Tagami Wasp
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.01 19:12:00 -
[736]
I like your ammo suggestion. I don't think your ship fix is better than my proposal, but your ammo suggestion is very good. ------------ Railgun performance required fix: - +15% railgun damage modifier - +10% PG for Caldari railgun ships |
Jardine Khan
Caldari Grey Wolves Mercenary Guild
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Posted - 2010.02.01 19:35:00 -
[737]
Originally by: Jacob Stov Then I would like to see a change to ammo:
Antimatter: 70% therm 30% kin damage -50% optimal
Plutonium: 70% kin 30% therm damage -25% optimal Uranium: 70% therm 30% kin damage -25% optimal
Thorium 70% kin 30% therm damage Lead 70% therm 30% kin damage
Iridium 70% kin 30% therm damage +25% optimal Tungsten 70% therm 30% kin damage +25% optimal
Iron 70% kin 30% therm damage +50% optimal
There is one thing I would argue with about your proposal: the difference in damage type ratios between ammo. Aside from antimatter, all those elements have a solid metal state, and thus should have kinetic damage being the higher percentage, especially when used in a railgun which fires solid metal slugs.
However, your idea of switching up the damage types does have potential, just not on the ammo level. Where the difference in damage type ratios should take play is on the turret level, meaning that ammo loaded into blasters should deal more thermal than kinetic and ammo loaded into railguns should do more kinetic than thermal.
The reasoning behind my counter proposal is thus: blasters break down the material in the ammo to its atomic components and thus should do more thermal damage, while railguns fire solid metal slugs and thus should do more kinetic damage. Plus, each race has a damage type preference: Amarr prefer EM damage, Caldari prefer kinetic, Minmatar prefer explosive, leaving Gallante to prefer thermal. This line of reasoning falls into line with the difference in damage ratios based on hybrid turret type; Caldari prefer railguns and thus should do more kinetic than thermal and Gallante prefer blasters and thus should do more thermal than kinetic.
Other than what I have stated above, I agree with your proposal.
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Jacob Stov
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Posted - 2010.02.01 20:08:00 -
[738]
Edited by: Jacob Stov on 01/02/2010 20:10:51 Well, I think with the current game code it is not possible to change damage type of ammo by loading it into different guns. Therefore I tried to find a way to encourage people to load up with the therm ammo on blaster (by giving it a bonus to falloff) and the kinetic type on rails. Nice sideeffect: Gallente Marauder Pilots could rejoice: finally something to throw at EM weak rats. (Not that I care to much about the frogs ) If we take battleships, I want to reach the following: More ore less damage parity between 150km and 170km. Apoc with Megabeams, Mega with Spike and Rokh with faction Thorium/Lead should have roughly equal DPS at ~160km give and take 10 km. Apoc with Tachs a bit above (say ~20 DPS). I think that is justified by the 2 fitting mods one needs to fit 8 tachs. Mael/Pest slightly below in DPS, but they have their great alpha. Mega should compete with the Apoc tracking wise below 150km, while the Rokh should be able to reach out up to 200km with somewhat reasonable damage.
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Tornicks
Caldari U-208 Blade.
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Posted - 2010.03.02 13:16:00 -
[739]
Agreed, give us balanced rails.
-- "Non-essential personnel, abandon ship." - Admiral Yakiya Tovil-Tobas last command. CE 23155 |
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