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Empire Dweller
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2010.01.05 02:54:00 -
[91]
Originally by: De'Veldrin Edited by: De''Veldrin on 04/01/2010 18:32:23
Originally by: Empire Dweller
Ill go one step further and say research points should be reset to zero...when an account is inactive.
I think that's going too far. You did, after all, accumulate the RP's with an active account. That would be like saying if your acount goes inactive we zero out your ISK.
Hmm yes maybe i am being a bit harsh. Just stopping the accumulation while inactive is enough i think.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.01.05 04:28:00 -
[92]
Inactive accounts should be exactly that. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Voddick
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Posted - 2010.01.05 04:43:00 -
[93]
Yes, there are many ways to look at this. However, at the end of the day RL happens; mistakes get made, active players fall off for short periods of time.
Perrigrene captured exactly what this proposal is about: stopping a specific exploit while not going off the deep end.
This issue has potential to suffer greatly from "scope creep" possibly to the point of being unusable by the CSM and CCP. Therefore, it addresses datacores and only datacores for the reasons below.
Originally by: Perrigrene
Not the issue being discussed, and the problem with this is if you forget to change payment methods or otherwise fund your account be it a day or several before you can pay CCP, everything you had going on gets 'canceled'. Make a mistake, get wrapped up in real life issues and congratulations we cancelled all your orders, research, manufacturing etc, welcome back. To me that is stupid, you pay for market orders, you pay for research/manufacturing jobs anything you pay for should continue until completion or the account is removed by CCP, not ludicrous at all to me.
Research Points are not something you pay for directly like any of the above, you train some skills build up standing and say let's work on something, then you are given RP throughout the day over and over till you cash them in or stop your research with the agent. While I disagree with the removal of Ghost training(on principle) it is done, getting something for nothing (direct pay) is what CCP said they don't offer (ninja edited but still) so removing the collection of RP on inactive accounts when you turn them back on is a logical step along with the Ghost Training nerf.
I support this idea because it works with the system of no gain for no pay on inactive accounts, which is what RP collection and skill progress on unpaid accounts are, market orders and research are paid for with isk and set to end by their nature.
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The Designer
RUS Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 09:57:00 -
[94]
I support this.
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K'talu T'hokran
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Posted - 2010.01.05 10:18:00 -
[95]
que?
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.01.05 10:21:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Dungheap what of blueprint research, capital construction jobs, market orders, and contracts. do these not continue and earn income for an inactive account, and directly compete with players who are still active?
As long as the corporation is active, why should a single character going in active have an impact on their corporate activities? Market orders, manufacturing jobs, research jobs - these will all eventually time out anyway.
What will you do with the manufacturing slots of jobs that are paused while a player is inactive? How many players would it take to gum up all manufacturing slots in Empire space with sub-capital manufacturing jobs that are eternally paused?
Just let the job finish. There are swings and roundabouts - such as not allowing actual delivery of a job that finished while an account was inactive. The manufacturing slots are cleared, no time is wasted from what has already been invested in manufacturing/researching, and there are no special cases to code around.
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
EdvensoR
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Posted - 2010.01.05 11:18:00 -
[97]
supported
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2010.01.05 11:45:00 -
[98]
Supported
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.05 12:03:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Empire DwellerIll go one step further and say research points should be reset to zero and not advance when an account is inactive.[/quote
That is totally stupid.
Your LP reset to zero when you stop paying your account?
Your isk reset to 0?
What you have already earned is earned. Deleting it because some people are green with envy at other people wallet is absurd.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.05 14:21:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 05/01/2010 12:31:52
Originally by: Empire Dweller Ill go one step further and say research points should be reset to zero and not advance when an account is inactive.
That is totally stupid.
Your LP reset to zero when you stop paying your account?
Your isk reset to 0?
What you have already earned is earned. Deleting it because some people are green with envy at other people wallet is absurd.
And he already retracted that statement above - on the first post on this very page in fact. --Vel
Brand new year, same old attitude. |
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Nali Thukar
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Posted - 2010.01.05 14:35:00 -
[101]
Signed
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Vorok
Silver Aria Ocularis Inferno
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Posted - 2010.01.05 15:27:00 -
[102]
Very sensible change to make. Players who already practice this would be free to either sell the research characters or just pay to keep the accounts active.
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Red Raider
Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's
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Posted - 2010.01.05 22:26:00 -
[103]
Originally by: De'Veldrin Supported.
If a person's account goes inactive all activitity on that account should be pulled at the next downtime. All market orders, all agent rewards, all contracts, everything.
Absofreakinglutely!!!
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Niyrah
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Posted - 2010.01.11 06:34:00 -
[104]
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2010.01.11 10:54:00 -
[105]
Next people are going to demand that market buy/sell orders on inactive accounts automatically become 'paused' and invisible on the market...
I'm mixed on supporting or not supporting this, but honestly considering the significant amount of work involved in gaining access to the worth-while agents and the fact that, if it were done on such a massive scale, there would be an 'issue' in datacore supply/demand ratios (read: there isn't; there's such an excess of supply that 0.01isk order warfare is almost more common than that for tritanium/pyerite).
As it stands, while any given account is inactive farming the RP, the owner cannot cash in the RP to get the datacores. When he does, someone (or even a few people) may do the same at roughly the same time, and the two people will end up having reactivated a whole bunch of accounts they do nothing else with purely to flood an already saturated market with a commodity nobody needs to buy anymore (because they either already have supplies of datacores from exploration that they can't sell off or they are doing the exact same thing anyway).
On the flipside this would hurt the lower-key guys that are trying to farm RP for invention purposes rather than for direct-trade purposes; whether they intend to invent for personal/corp/alliance use or to sell the end product(s) to the market instead.
So actually no, I can't support this; hurts the fat-cats 'abusing' the system at the same time as the start-up players trying to find a viable means of making a bit of extra isk. ---
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Ava Stonlai
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Posted - 2010.01.11 13:26:00 -
[106]
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja Next people are going to demand that market buy/sell orders on inactive accounts automatically become 'paused' and invisible on the market...
I'm mixed on supporting or not supporting this, but honestly considering the significant amount of work involved in gaining access to the worth-while agents and the fact that, if it were done on such a massive scale, there would be an 'issue' in datacore supply/demand ratios (read: there isn't; there's such an excess of supply that 0.01isk order warfare is almost more common than that for tritanium/pyerite).
As it stands, while any given account is inactive farming the RP, the owner cannot cash in the RP to get the datacores. When he does, someone (or even a few people) may do the same at roughly the same time, and the two people will end up having reactivated a whole bunch of accounts they do nothing else with purely to flood an already saturated market with a commodity nobody needs to buy anymore (because they either already have supplies of datacores from exploration that they can't sell off or they are doing the exact same thing anyway).
On the flipside this would hurt the lower-key guys that are trying to farm RP for invention purposes rather than for direct-trade purposes; whether they intend to invent for personal/corp/alliance use or to sell the end product(s) to the market instead.
So actually no, I can't support this; hurts the fat-cats 'abusing' the system at the same time as the start-up players trying to find a viable means of making a bit of extra isk.
Uh, no, the fat-cats abusing the system are the ones hurting the people trying to make some extra isk, they are the ones who flood the 'stable' market of players cashing in and selling Datacores. The people who log in once a year to collect Datacores from x accounts hurt the people trying to make some isk from datacores but who actually play and supply them year round. They are the ones who trade them to a main and can sell off their stockpile year round but are likely more motivated to take less cause their main's running out of game time. Having only paid to activate the account and collect the Datacore their Research Point farmers go back to sleep until next time.
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AnonyTerrorNinja
Minmatar Buggers' Advanced Interstellar Transport
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Posted - 2010.01.11 17:05:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Ava Stonlai
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja *snip*
Uh, no, the fat-cats abusing the system are the ones hurting the people trying to make some extra isk, they are the ones who flood the 'stable' market of players cashing in and selling Datacores. The people who log in once a year to collect Datacores from x accounts hurt the people trying to make some isk from datacores but who actually play and supply them year round. They are the ones who trade them to a main and can sell off their stockpile year round but are likely more motivated to take less cause their main's running out of game time. Having only paid to activate the account and collect the Datacore their Research Point farmers go back to sleep until next time.
And only the 'fat-cats' can do this, right?
If everyone can do it, but some choose not to, then that's not a flaw of game-mechanics, it's a human error.
What do those accounts do when they've been activated for a month? Only one character can train for 32 or so days before it becomes inactive again. Chances are good that the initial game-time investment to train all three characters on the account as well as grind standings by-proxy for them took more than a 1-month sub initially, especially since the more characters are splitting up standings gains, the more missions you have to run to get the personal standings; then you still have to grind the faction standings element (which is high for the lvl4 agents) on the character itself.
Those people had to work to get their various characters to be able to use that many research agents at once. If they bought characters that could already do that, then the person they bought the characters from had to work for it, and isk is still changing hands in what I believe is a very alive market for RP generation characters.
Why should this kind of limitation be imposed on purely inactive accounts? Someone may have two characters on their "main's" account that do nothing but purely this; fair enough that account is paid for, but that's two essentially inactive characters if they are used for purely RP grinding.
Alternatively they could have this going on an account purely bred for AFK mining with RP generation on the side, or even just for an Orca alt.
Why should other forms of AFK play have it easy while this doesn't?
And before you pull the 'you must be a fat-cat' card, I have a grand total of two agents right now in Amo and Hek - I got too tired of the insanely mind-numbing grinding to get access to the agents after I'd already run hundreds of thousands in LP worth of missions for Minmatar, and never skipped a storyline mission, and then still had to get those personal standings via lvl1/2 agents - there are other ways to make afk isk in EVE that I prefer utilizing. ---
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Vorok
Silver Aria Ocularis Inferno
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Posted - 2010.01.11 20:44:00 -
[108]
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja Why should this kind of limitation be imposed on purely inactive accounts? Someone may have two characters on their "main's" account that do nothing but purely this; fair enough that account is paid for, but that's two essentially inactive characters if they are used for purely RP grinding.
Alternatively they could have this going on an account purely bred for AFK mining with RP generation on the side, or even just for an Orca alt.
Why should other forms of AFK play have it easy while this doesn't?
Because you can't afk mine on an inactive account. Pay for the account and you get three character slots to use for whatever you wish. If someone wants to pay for 3 accounts with all 9 character generating maximal datacores, they should be allowed to.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.11 21:28:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Vorok
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja Why should this kind of limitation be imposed on purely inactive accounts? Someone may have two characters on their "main's" account that do nothing but purely this; fair enough that account is paid for, but that's two essentially inactive characters if they are used for purely RP grinding.
Alternatively they could have this going on an account purely bred for AFK mining with RP generation on the side, or even just for an Orca alt.
Why should other forms of AFK play have it easy while this doesn't?
Because you can't afk mine on an inactive account. Pay for the account and you get three character slots to use for whatever you wish. If someone wants to pay for 3 accounts with all 9 character generating maximal datacores, they should be allowed to.
And indeed they can. If you're willing to train 9 different characters to grind Datacores across 3 active accounts, I have absolutely no issue with that, as long as you're actually paying for those accounts to be run. Hell, pay for them with plex, I don't care. But pay for them. --Vel
Brand new year, same old attitude. |
Ava Stonlai
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Posted - 2010.01.11 22:13:00 -
[110]
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja
Originally by: Ava Stonlai
Originally by: AnonyTerrorNinja *snip*
Uh, no, the fat-cats abusing the system are the ones hurting the people trying to make some extra isk, they are the ones who flood the 'stable' market of players cashing in and selling Datacores.
And only the 'fat-cats' can do this, right?
STUFF
Again No, I used your term 'fat-cats' because you used it as an argument that doing this would hurt the fat-cats and the 'start-up players' trying to get into farming Datacores for some extra isk. As I said the little guy isn't the one setting up several dedicated accounts to farm Datacores, lets them go inactive, then activates them when it is time to collect or they need to sell Datacores to buy plex etc. A 'little guy' would more likely have their main do this and not do the unrealistic level 5 BS someone mentioned in this thread and grinding standings with the best LV4 R&D agents out there because some 'extra isk' doesn't require that kind of effort. But I have no problem with someone wanting to keep RP farming accounts active, it is the inactive collection of RP that is what needs to be fixed.
It IS a flaw of game mechanics since it started, why? well CCP chose to not let players character benefit when the account isn't active, benefit how?, in the collection or accumulation of 'things' you can clearly see the parallel between a character continuing to train for a month and one that keep collecting Research Points, the RP keep going forever. It makes no sense where you character can't finish out the skill queue now, what is the max 2-3 months on a skill? BUT you can continue to collect Research Points for years if you so choose. Nothing else works like this in EVE, going on 'forever' whether you are there or not, or ever come back.
As far as those that 'worked' to get their army of alt RP farming accounts up they took advantage of this game mechanic 'too bad' it is long overdue that this was corrected, Ghost Training, IMO was the catalyst for it. They have been getting 'paid' for their work what since T2 lottery ended?, I never said set the RP to 0 like someone suggested just stop it when the account is inactive. Some players CHOSE to make characters grind standings and train skills for whatever time, 2-3 months, longer if they were really greedy so they could sit back and collect RP by doing nothing but paying for a month, their choice not mine. They can always sell them on the Character Bazaar, nothing is stopping that, activate the account, post an ad, collect datacores, trade to main, sell the character you got paid again for all your 'work'.
Why limit it to inactive accounts, because they are gaining for nothing, it is that simple, the active accounts doing this pay for the game PLEX, or real money on subscription. You are free to kill your price checker alt, contract scamming alt, or forum alt and trade your RP farmer over to your main account as well or just sell it as an inventor/farmer. Comparing an alt on the same account to a secondary account that collects RP while that account isn't being paid for and the alt is makes no sense. By that logic we should be paying for every alt we have on our main accounts as well, 1 character per account, brilliant.
I don't follow what you mean 'other forms of AFK play have it easy while this doesn't' what other AFK play allows you to gain by not paying for the game for months and earn items worth isk? Maybe I'm too new the only thing I can think of is Character Farming but that has been nerfed as you need to keep the account active (pay) to train. Are you speaking of Botting/macroing, those are against EULA I'm for CCP stopping them too and feel they have a pretty easy way of finding them since most bots do it vigorously so it easy to profile and investigate those accounts.
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Ordavion
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Posted - 2010.01.15 18:31:00 -
[111]
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2010.01.15 18:45:00 -
[112]
ZERO risk, all reward. No reason to get datacores and not even be subbed!
Also no reason to get datacores and not even be forced to run a mission once in a while...
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Bristin
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Posted - 2010.01.18 19:17:00 -
[113]
Supported
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.01.20 10:28:00 -
[114]
Yes, this needs to stop. They've already stopped ghost training, why not stop this exactly?
It also might bring in a bit of $$ as well, as some inactive accounts may be activated once again.
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Bartolomeo Colleoni
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.01.22 16:44:00 -
[115]
Supported.
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Lord FunkyMunky
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Posted - 2010.01.22 17:26:00 -
[116]
110% supported
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.22 17:44:00 -
[117]
/signed. What a stupid mechanic. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Decon Ko
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Posted - 2010.01.22 18:31:00 -
[118]
--
This: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1248088 |
Lykouleon
Trust Doesn't Rust
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Posted - 2010.01.22 20:32:00 -
[119]
Quote: CCP Mindstar > Sorry - I've completely messed all that up. lets try again
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Listra Letoille
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Posted - 2010.01.22 22:10:00 -
[120]
/signed
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