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Shivan'Dragon
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Posted - 2009.12.25 19:01:00 -
[1]
If you are flying a vaga and trying to takeout recon ship with bonuses to warp scrambler distance how would you keep your distance from him and still hit and keep him warp distrupted? I know some ships can get to 22km scrambler overheated, so it has to be able to hit beyond that which 425's or vulcans can with barrage and tracking enhancers, it also needs to be able to stay outside that 22km radius at any time. Would you pulse your mwd? run it constantly? The reason why i am asking is, if the distance buffer is not large enough and in this case it will be the distance between your max distrup vs his max scram, he can dart forward and close the distance for a split second to get you in scram range. If you run directly away from him its easier to keep distance but then your are not speed tanking.... I am looking for opinions.
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Intigo
Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.25 19:13:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Intigo on 25/12/2009 19:14:58 Generally, you don't want to engage those ships unless you know you can beat them if you do get scrambled. Lachesis and Arazu are both extremely dangerous ships for a Vagabond pilot.
A more common approach when dealing with those kind of ships is simply staying a good ~10k out of their scrambler range and widdle them them down slowly. If you suspect they are about to warp off you can then swoop in closer for the point at which point if you do get scrambled they should already be low enough for you to win the fight.
I very rarely engage Lachesis or Arazus 1on1 because while you may be able to kill them even if they do get you scrambled they usually (unless fit with damps, heh) have sufficient tanks to keep you scrambled untill backup arrives. The only time I'll engage them generally is if I know that they have no backup around and they are not fitted optimally (ie. damp fits, sensor boosters or something equally stupid that gives them a lack of EHP).
Edit: Never stay just 2k or so out of their Scram range. That is complete suicide as any half-decent pilot will easily get you inside scram range - this is the same reason why flying a range-fitted Interceptor for Inty dogfighting is so suicidal because 90% of good pilots have an easy time getting targets into range. ___________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it. |
Shivan'Dragon
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Posted - 2009.12.26 03:20:00 -
[3]
Yeah i was trying to point out the same, playing on a 3-5km range buffer outside the scram range is very dangerous. I had the same idea to take long range guns and hit it from far and as soon as I feel like he will warp come close distrupt and finish the fight. If he wants to run from the start there is no need to play in his terms if its a gallente recon ship. Tnx for the reply.
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cyniarka
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Posted - 2009.12.26 06:34:00 -
[4]
There are some ships that you should not engage with your vagabond unless you are sure that person behind a wheel is either purly skilled or lolfited.Lachesis will outdps/tank you easly,arazu will probably have backup or he will deagress and redock/jump if fights goes wrong for him.
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Shivan'Dragon
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Posted - 2009.12.26 20:31:00 -
[5]
See thats the part i don't understand. I mean things maybe different ingame but on paper, EFT shows with all lvl V skills ( to keep skills out of the calculation), the only way lachesis out dps's a vaga is when its fitted for pure dps only with 4 hammerhead 2's 3 heavy neutron blasters, 2 heavy assult missles launchers, all lows at magnetic stabs and tech 2 ammo. This leaves the lachesis with absolutly 0 tank and 50-60 dps higher than the vaga. Considering heis not going to insta pop a vaga he will lose, since the vaga that has 50-60 dps less is fitted with buffer shiled tank and better resistances. If lachesis works on its tank a little, it does not have the power grid to fit all the weaposn so it will lose dps. So I am not sure about out dpsing and out tanking at the same time.
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Intigo
Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.26 22:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Intigo on 26/12/2009 22:10:45
Originally by: Shivan'Dragon See thats the part i don't understand. I mean things maybe different ingame but on paper, EFT shows with all lvl V skills ( to keep skills out of the calculation), the only way lachesis out dps's a vaga is when its fitted for pure dps only with 4 hammerhead 2's 3 heavy neutron blasters, 2 heavy assult missles launchers, all lows at magnetic stabs and tech 2 ammo. This leaves the lachesis with absolutly 0 tank and 50-60 dps higher than the vaga. Considering heis not going to insta pop a vaga he will lose, since the vaga that has 50-60 dps less is fitted with buffer shiled tank and better resistances. If lachesis works on its tank a little, it does not have the power grid to fit all the weaposn so it will lose dps. So I am not sure about out dpsing and out tanking at the same time.
This is all assuming the Lachesis is fitted well, if you see damps, SBs, armor tank or other junk on it, don't hesitate to kill him:
Vaga does ~350 DPS at optimal with Barrage (Warriors not included for now, they are 80 DPS). Imagine the Lachesis is kiting you at 20k, with 2 TEs that means you're doing approx. 75% of your damage due to the nature of falloff. So you're doing ~260 Explo/Kin + 80 Explo = 360 DPS on 2 of the higher resistances for a Lachesis on Shield. And any Lachesis that is not fitted like an idiot will have a very hefty shield buffer fitted. The Lachesis will be doing ~350 DPS at 20k with a lot more EHP and hitting some of your lower resists (most likely he will have Thermal / Explo drones, but if he's remotely smart he will be loading Kinetic missiles for instance). Don't think of it as a DPS race, think of it as a buffer race. The Lachesis can fit far more buffer and it can completely shut down your escape option - if he's fitted well and flown by someone competent you are in a world of hurt. How I would fit the Lachesis for a 1on1 has almost twice the EHP of a standard Vagabond fit, for example - and it's perfectly possible to fit a good shield buffer along with some weaponry.
But, as I said, it all depends on the pilot and the fit he's using. It's just a good rule of thumb to stay very clear of anyone flying those ships if they are in a gang and that you should ensure they are fitted badly or flown by someone incompetent if you are engaging them 1on1. ___________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it. |
Dyphorus
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Posted - 2009.12.27 06:17:00 -
[7]
As stated above, you choose your targets wisely. Frankly if you don't know what you should/should not engage, you shouldn't be flying a HAC... or any other pricey ship for that matter.
A huge part of PvP in EVE is knowing your enemy and the capabilities/limitations of your ship/fleet. Failure to do so will earn you many deaths, and plenty of lol's from those seeing the related killmails. |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.12.27 07:45:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 27/12/2009 07:46:14 A properly fit Lachesis will keep the Vagabond scrambled and kite him at around 18km, dampening his lockrange down to 11km.
The Vagabond is reduced to 80 dps from its drones (until the Lach kills those if he doesnt choose to laugh at them), with no way to get in range to ever get a lock.
Pretty much the only chance for the Vagabond to kill it is getting into point-blank range, which isnt exactly easy with about 25km overheated scram range on the Lach.
Not to meantion that these ships are primarily tacklers for a gang...
Luckily though not many people know to fly the Lach well, so YMMV.
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Shivan'Dragon
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Posted - 2009.12.27 17:40:00 -
[9]
hmm I am glad you guys are chiming in, because my main weakness in pvp is that although i can fly my own ships somewhat well, i don't knowc the capabilities of most other pvp ships out there, hence this thread :). Ok so Lachesis will target range dampen , scramble and kite from far relying on its shield buffer. Very nice. What other ship should a vaga look out for?
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Ethan Blue
Rubicon Vanguard Emergence.
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Posted - 2009.12.28 14:08:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ethan Blue on 28/12/2009 14:16:22 Edited by: Ethan Blue on 28/12/2009 14:15:03
Originally by: Shivan'Dragon hmm I am glad you guys are chiming in, because my main weakness in pvp is that although i can fly my own ships somewhat well, i don't knowc the capabilities of most other pvp ships out there, hence this thread :). Ok so Lachesis will target range dampen , scramble and kite from far relying on its shield buffer. Very nice. What other ship should a vaga look out for?
Curse... if you see a curse, run like hell.
Can kill your cap at 36+ KM away even with crappy skills (doesn't need a scram, just a disruptor), 5 bonused medium drones (150 m3 drone bay), MEAN shield tank. He will eat your alive.
Spelling Edit.
------------------------ TeaDaze for CSM. |
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Kingwood
Amarr Hello Kitty Pyjama Piwates
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Posted - 2009.12.28 14:36:00 -
[11]
Curse has only average shield buffer, something like 8k shield HP. It's definitely not a "mean shield tank". And yeah, Vagas should be careful of TD'ing Curses.
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