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Gais Ganor
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Posted - 2009.12.27 05:28:00 -
[1]
As the bounty hunting thread has been closed due to inactivity I thought I'd start a new one here.
As Concord is not pro active we need some extension that is. Someone having skills and training for the BRU license would have the right to go after pirates/and general baddassess as an extension of concord and could attack without concord interference. Anyone who's seen Blade Runner will notice some similarity here, Blade Runner Units were basically above the law when it came to hunting replicants. I think creating a similar career track would be enormous fun and help balance eve's current lack of any come back for being an *******. In a similar vien, BRU's would have access to special equipment for tracking targets etc.
There would need to be a way of classifying criminal activity to ensure the system is not abused. Someone who kills another player would be a murderer / serial murderer etc, someone who steals classed as a thief etc.
BRU's would be a real fun extension to career choices. Current choices are pretty much all passive except for becoming a pirate. Bounty Hunter Units would create a career path that has similar enjoyment factor plus the added bonus that your are fighting for what is right - which is sadly lacking at the moment. Fighting for what's right has a huge emotional motivational drive behind it and would greatly enhance the players experience. Being powerless to fight back legally is very demotivating and despiriting and probably is one of the reasons eves numbers are not climbing. A year ago this xmas, eve trumpeted 44000 concurrent online users, I didn't see that this year.
Bounty Hunter Units would bring a much needed bit of Blade Runner to eve.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.27 06:45:00 -
[2]
in one word: Locator agents.
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Sharon Anne
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Posted - 2009.12.27 11:00:00 -
[3]
Concord auxiliaries
High sec level, high skills, no bounty on character. Can join concord as auxiliaries only auxiliaries can collect bounties. no penalty for killing players with bounties. Can hunt anywhere.
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Mahai Ano
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.12.27 11:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Sharon Anne Concord auxiliaries
High sec level, high skills, no bounty on character. Can join concord as auxiliaries only auxiliaries can collect bounties. no penalty for killing players with bounties. Can hunt anywhere.
Would be quite easy to exploited as harassment. "Hey hulk pilot, pay up or I'll set a bounty on you and kill you!"
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Serge Bastana
Gallente GWA Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.27 11:18:00 -
[5]
You could also screw with the bounty hunters by having someone put a bounty on them, what happens then? ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag.
Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited! |
Gais Ganor
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Posted - 2009.12.27 12:27:00 -
[6]
As I mentioned in the spec the method of describing criminal activity as murder/ thief etc wold qualify the perp to have a bounty placement enabled. Placing a bounty would have to change from anybody can place one on anybody to only placeable on someone who had committed a crime, just like in real life.
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Osvaldr Adridian
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.27 13:50:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mahai Ano
Would be quite easy to exploited as harassment. "Hey hulk pilot, pay up or I'll set a bounty on you and kill you!"
If I can recall correctly, you need to have a -3.0 sec status or below to have a bounty placed on your head. It's not too often do I see Hulk pilots/indy-folk with a sec status like that.
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Pan Dora
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.12.27 14:55:00 -
[8]
The problem its the fact the Bounty Hunter will be able to selective hunt whille not risking the agression from his victim in the same way. Also this dont adress the basic flaw of bounty system: If your bounty its good enough collect it yourself.
_
I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game. |
Gais Ganor
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Posted - 2009.12.29 12:26:00 -
[9]
The Bounty Hunter Units will of course go for the target they select as doable, even so , there is considerable risk involved as most of the high bounty perps will be extremely tough to crack. The real problem is that there are some very highly skilled killers going around killing people. As in real life, they should know that they will be pursued for their crime and that they invite being hunted via the crime they commit.
When someone suffers a crime in real life they go to the police to get some redress. If there wasn't a police force people would be up in arms about it. They are specialists in the field and have powers ordinary people don't have in order to do their job. The same emotional reaction occurs in eve when someone is murdered but at the moment there's bugger all we can do about it. In terms of game play there's a huge emotional reservoir that's not being tapped into that would really invigorate the game.
As for the problem of bountied criminals blowing themselves up to claim the bounty or having someone else do it and share the proceeds I'm not sure what the solution is. Bounty Hunter Units is just one possible aspect of a possible solution to rebalancing eve. There will need to be a general overhaul of the system. One possible solution could be to bar the criminal from claiming their own bounty. If they get a friend to do it, another thing to check on would be large sums of money going to the criminal just after being podded and if so confiscated.
As I say , I don't have all the answers (these are just off the top of my head), but there needs to be a proactive aspect to concord and Bounty Hunter Units would be a fun way of adding it.
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Dark Drifter
Amarr Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.29 14:44:00 -
[10]
while i would like to see this implemented, there are a few problems i see that have had some mention in this thread.
1 - to have a massive fleet hunting you is not good, its unfair to alow this in high sec as no one can help you. if this was to be implemented i would want to see an overhaul to the current aggro mechanic. in short alowing my corp/aliande to defend me while under attack from one of these bounty hunting fleets. so if u shoot me! my corp/aliance will **** you. eye for eye i suppose, or i get a kill right for every bounty hunter that shot me. IMINENT GREIFER I WILL KILL U WALL tactic!,
2 - the bounty system is lets say it C.R.A.P.T (compleatly recked post trinity) IMHO. i dont think that this will ever be fixed.
3 - if this was implemented then you would have people puttin bountys on each other to epic proportions so that wave after wave of noob would sacrifice them selcs on the alter of my EPICX PVP leetness, not forgetting my 10 RR domi friends i woul never die and u would all be raging calling EXPLOIT , GREIFER , ITS SO UNFAIR THAT YOU CAN DO THAT I WANT THIS THAT AND THE OTHER TO ENABLE ME TO LOSE MORE STUF TO YOU!!!!!
in the end it wouls be removed from the game and everyone would say well done CCP, when in fact is was some idiot who did not know how eve as an entity is supposed to work...
i love this game and to have somthing like this in it would most definatly detur newer pilots from getting hooked.. thet keep it as it is for the time being, it is workin so lets not break it
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Slade Hoo
Amarr Obscure Violence
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Posted - 2009.12.29 19:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mahai Ano
Would be quite easy to exploited as harassment. "Hey hulk pilot, pay up or I'll set a bounty on you and kill you!"
A common hulk pilot hasn't a sec status of -2.0 or lower. If he has...his fault. I'm just a lonely pirate on my way to ascension |
Czert ElPrezidente
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Posted - 2009.12.29 20:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mahai Ano
Originally by: Sharon Anne Concord auxiliaries
High sec level, high skills, no bounty on character. Can join concord as auxiliaries only auxiliaries can collect bounties. no penalty for killing players with bounties. Can hunt anywhere.
Would be quite easy to exploited as harassment. "Hey hulk pilot, pay up or I'll set a bounty on you and kill you!"
I think it easy solveable - as bounty HUNTER you are dissaloved to place bounty on anyone. Ant t prevent ganging (one non-hunter place bounty, intantly tell it to hunter and booom). It is here very easy solution - bounty can be placed only by VICTIM of criminal, and bounty is automaticaly set by value of damage (e.q. 25% of value). And with filling in of crime report criminal will be clasified as thief/murder..etc.
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Lucifer Mullins
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.29 21:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente
Originally by: Mahai Ano
Originally by: Sharon Anne Concord auxiliaries
High sec level, high skills, no bounty on character. Can join concord as auxiliaries only auxiliaries can collect bounties. no penalty for killing players with bounties. Can hunt anywhere.
Would be quite easy to exploited as harassment. "Hey hulk pilot, pay up or I'll set a bounty on you and kill you!"
I think it easy solveable - as bounty HUNTER you are dissaloved to place bounty on anyone. Ant t prevent ganging (one non-hunter place bounty, intantly tell it to hunter and booom). It is here very easy solution - bounty can be placed only by VICTIM of criminal, and bounty is automaticaly set by value of damage (e.q. 25% of value). And with filling in of crime report criminal will be clasified as thief/murder..etc.
I'll go one further: The insurance company set's it. Insurance stops paying out for criminal losses. one step further: The bounty is collected by an NPC hunter squad that get's tougher by how much the bounty rises AND takes it out ISK for ISK. Kill a 10m ISK ship? That's 10m ISK ISK in ship losses incoming. Oh and insurance scales to the sec rating: eg 1.0 = 100%, .5 = 50%.
Now I would have the NPC's beatable, but eventually they will overwhelm you. Oh and to keep it fair, we're talking ISK value of the Hull and these guys will Pod you.
I don't know why the Devs thought "Wild West" justice would work in Eve. Hasn't worked in any game yet. The thing is, that it always comes down to some tagged person letting their bud (or secondary account) kill them for the Gold / Credits / ISK. --- Dulce et decorum, est pro patria mori! |
UnknownSoldier
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Posted - 2009.12.29 22:24:00 -
[14]
An additional consideration that MIGHT stop ganking in this type of scenario is this; a LICENCED bounty hunter is in effect an extension of the law enforcement community. When they go after a character bounty, they "tag" their intended target. Anyone firing on the bounty hunter OTHER than the target is reacted to the same way eve reacts to any hostile act. or purhaps simply lists them as criminals and puts a bounty on them as well. OF course, the criminals buddies could passively or actively tank the target, just have to be careful about pulling a gun on a "cop".
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Gais Ganor
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:52:00 -
[15]
There're some good points raised here, Dark Drifter mentions that-
the bounty system is lets say it C.R.A.P.T (compleatly recked post trinity) IMHO. i dont think that this will ever be fixed.
and Lucifer Mullins adds that;
I don't know why the Devs thought "Wild West" justice would work in Eve. Hasn't worked in any game yet. The thing is, that it always comes down to some tagged person letting their bud (or secondary account) kill them for the Gold / Credits / ISK.
Saying that it can't be fixed is a bit defeatist and as a product designer myself, I don't agree with on the principle that you can find a solution to game problems and indeed have to if you are to stay in business/ grow. Even in the wild west of the 1800's you had a sherriff to call on who in turn got a posse together and went after the bad guys - eve is supposedly set in the far future so surely we could at least have the legal routes available on earth in the 1800's. I mean at least.
Some possible ground rules have come out of this thread, Czert ElPrezidente suggests: (1. - )It is here very easy solution - bounty can be placed only by VICTIM of criminal, and bounty is automaticaly set by value of damage (e.q. 25% of value). And with filling in of crime report criminal will be clasified as thief/murder..etc.
I think this is a good idea as it applies a rule to who can be bountied so as to avoid willy nilly placing of bounties. It also points out that if you kill someone you can expect to be brought to justice, that essentially you are making your self a killable target by Bounty Runner Units. As many new players are the targets of these "big tough" pirates, knowing that they were placing themselves on concords permanent kill file might deter this activity and help eve become a more noob friendly place. Expecting a noob to go kill the one who did them(in a month) is completely unrealistic and leads to a sense of powerlessness and being helpless in the face of an untouchable criminal, much like the victims of organized crime. In terms of game design this is a vast well of emotion that can be tapped into with Bounty Hunter Units and it would re-energise eve's growth by deterring those events which **** new players off and add a very interesting career path for those bored with the current offerings.
Some other suggestions (Lucifer Mullins plus some additions to the ideas myself): 2. - The bounty is collected by an NPC and evaluated to avoid bounties being collected by the criminal or his associates. The algorithm for this is something CCP could only come up with given the games complexity. This would also have to make it possible for someone who is not a Bounty Runner Unit to still be able to claim.
3.- The criminal bountied is automatically barred from collecting on his/her own bounty.
UnknownSoldier adds: An additional consideration that MIGHT stop ganking in this type of scenario is this; a LICENCED bounty hunter is in effect an extension of the law enforcement community.
so, 4. BRU's function as a pro active extension of Concord.
On the whole Bounty Runner Units is one possibility for rebalancing eve's inherent unfairness vsv a low level character targeted by an elite pirate.
EVE as we've seen, evolves. In the same way that wormholes were introduced and the scanning methods completely revised, the bounty hunter system can also be completely revised. A new system could be introduced complete with tutorials on how to go about it just as there are for other areas. Trying to solve all those things in a thread like this is impossible due to the games complexity - that is something that ccp's game designers and programers can only do.
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Gais Ganor
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Posted - 2009.12.30 07:04:00 -
[16]
Just to throw a few more ideas into the pot - how about a BOUNTY RUNNER AGENCY that list's all bounties available and all Bounty Runner Units available (instead of the largely useless most wanted list). They then get classed as to threat level and matched with possible BRUnits grade level. This would help identify which perps are doable targets for the grade level of the BRU. BRU's could also be contacted by people who've been griefed just as you might in the 1800's call the local sheriff. They could even form up to take part in the take down of the perp. I believe this idea of deputizing was mentioned in a previous thread. This would be a great way of people getting together for a common cause. BRU's could have a grading system to create a career path such as - Agent, Captain, Marshall etc. Create something to shoot for.
BRU's have access to a CRIMINAL TRACKER, this tracks the location of bountied perps. Combined with a PERP MAPPER the BRU's could figure out who was doable and where they are/ how far away etc. Sort of locator agent + map on steroids.
The characters who would be good at this would be some of the (?ex-) pirates themselves. There could be a sort of community service that these ex pirates could perform to get their rating back into the positive - say by becoming a BRU? Needless to say, how this would work would need ccps game designers to figure out but it would be good to tap into those particularly skilled for this kind of work. I know in the current game this would be full of holes but in a completely redesigned bounty system it might work. Lets face it, people are going to be tired of doing the same thing after a while, and using their skills to be the good guy for a change might very well appeal.
Being a pirate and going around blowing stuff up is fine - if you are a pirate, but designing the game for this small hard core elite is going to mean limiting the vaster number people who take to the game for other reasons, this I think is why player growth is so slow compared to other games that have a wider variety of career options. Having a wide range of goals enhances variety and game play and there's a better chance that someone will stay with the game to pursue them. But with pirates and the like being a law unto themselves new players will continue to be stymied in their efforts to grow their characters, hence the need for something that balances the game: Bounty Hunter Units.
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MasterCeremony
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Posted - 2009.12.30 09:51:00 -
[17]
Glad i got to this thread before it became inactive. Hopefully too there will be some ppl that see this.
The idea posed is a pretty good idea, and it just needs a few tweaks to it that will serve for gameplay but will also sort of make a bit more rp sense.
1. If you are one of these bounty hunters i def agree that you need to have a high standing/license/etc. HOWEVER, in addition to this, whenever you are setting out to go kill someone with a bounty, you need to apply for a "writ of execution". This may go to also be used as a cover to solve other problems, for instance having 200 different people who would have otherwise had kill rights on the criminal at one time. So you can only kill that person when you have been granted the writ. But im sure it could be used in more ways than just this. (Im not sure i like my own idea, but maybe the criminal would get a mail notifying him there is a writ out on him but it would NOT tell who's after him)
2. To solve the problem of being criminal and a bounty hunter being able to amass a large fleet capable of taking you out far too easily, a system that goes hand in hand with the writ system could be used to make it such that a bounty hunter cannot be in a fleet of more than 2 ppl. (because i may want to go run around and hunt you with my best bud) Anyways, while the bounty hunter has an active writ, he will not be able to join a large fleet. In addition, i think that when a bounty hunter has an active writ, he should not be able to be rr'd, because it would take away from the feeling that your on your own (save your one buddy) about to go mono y mono w/some big baddie. It would also help again to keep large fleets of people from utterly blobbing.
3. Bounty hunters shouldn't be excluded from getting bounties of their own. Although other bounty hunters i dont think should be allowed to execute writs on each other, but it would only make sense that some big criminal mob would want to get back at a hunter by putting a price on his head to make him more sought after in the event he's in low sec. And similarly the same bounty systems should remain where people still get isk from bounty's if they get kills in low or null sec. Empire kills will be exclusive to hunters oc.
tl;dr - Bounty hunters need writs of execution to kill. and while a hunter has an active writ he cannot join fleets of more than 1 person. (NOTE TO CCP - please incorporate these ideas we need something like this!!! ) *props to gais for his idea.*
-Mc
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