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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
109
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. Who knows what the **** you can get punished for next considering if it benefits you in any way they may randomly yank back all your profits. I find it disturbing that you think you could exploit a system to print money and crash markets and we'd just be like "Oh haha those cards".
Dude, bro...
have you read market discussion? |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
109
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Kazanir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Maggie Maggie wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Comparing removing the manipulated assets of a small number of people to a complete redesign of the game may just win the prize. Hear me out. While I am a goon and of course I do feel that a member of my tribe is under attack, I'm speaking as a player. EVE has always been an open sandbox where players are allowed and encouraged to do things that materially affect the game. That is the one thing that sets EVE apart from every other MMO. There are other spaceship games. There are other games with a functioning market. There are other games where clever players do better than dumb people. EVE has always been an open sandbox. If a player is afraid to experiment and push the game in new directions for fear that, should they win too big, they will lose everything, then that is not an open sandbox. EVE has always been an open sandbox. If that is no longer the case, that constitues a complete redesign. Please don't take that first step. I like the game how it is. When do we get to the part where we stop pretending that a gap in the timing of value calculation (programming) wasn't what was being taken advantage of here? This wasn't just market manipulation it was taking advantage of a flaw in the code. That is absolutely not true, and to people who DO understand the mechanic it kind of calls into question whether you understand what you are talking about. The mechanic involved has nothing to do with timing or a "flaw" in the code. The system worked precisely as it was designed to. I'll make a larger post explaining it, but I wanted to put this out there first. It is absolutely true. It's even mentioned in the OP. That's not the entirety of the exploit of course but it does increase the damage window.
So, when does all the isk earnt during the insurance fraud bonanza get taken away? |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
109
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Maggie Maggie wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:When do we get to the part where we stop pretending that a gap in the timing of value calculation (programming) wasn't what was being taken advantage of here? This wasn't just market manipulation it was taking advantage of a flaw in the code. It is not always apparent what is a flaw in the code and what is a flaw in the design. Sometimes it is blatantly obvious, as in the ferogel dupe. A variety of now-defunct GARPA projects relied on flaws in the code, yes, we knew it, you fixed it, it's done. This, however, does not look like a flaw in the code. This does not look like code being pushed into an edge case where it goes for a variable that has not been initialized and instead picks up old junk that just so happens to not be junk. We've been there, this doesn't smell like that. The code didn't default into a case where it unexpectedly decides to calculate an EVE-wide 90 day moving average. That was a design error, not an implementation error. And design errors are fair game. Flaw in code was a bad way of saying things v0v You're correct that the code was doing what it was written to do. However when the new mechanic was introduced a system was being leveraged to determine the value of a currency that was not built for that purpose and that's what caused this.
Your job would probably be a lot easier if expansions or patches weren't released despite players warning what might happen. You know, like, "obtw guys, inferno will just cause dogpiling of war decs", "we'll wait and see", and now this.
I think it's fairer to say CCP's 'wait and see, metrics are everything' policy caused it along with numerous other recent problems. |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
109
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tomytronic wrote:Andrea Roche wrote:Tomytronic wrote:Andrea Roche wrote:I think this is far worst than the word "exploit". The word "exploit" is far too weak or linient of a word to use. I say goons "raped" the market and now are claiming no fault. This to me is helarious. Take all their isk and assets away CCP and send a message out that the gloves are off for anyone trying to do the same!! I say your hyperbole is offensive to actual victims of ****. This isn't 'helarious'. it does not imply the meaning you intend to put. I specifically said "the market"! Dont try to make this into something else.... If you intend to use such inappropriate language to describe the actions of people in an internet spaceships game, then you should possibly sit back and reflect on your communication skills. I think you should retract your word, apologise and make your point again using different language that does not offend, nor hyperbolise.
Confirming your use of language makes you far worse than the people you are complaining about.
Wash your mouth out with soap young man. |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
109
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tomytronic wrote:RAP ACTION HERO wrote:one day goons are going to cure cancer And we'll be blamed for putting the pharmaceutical companies out of business.
Stealing our jerbs.
Dancing Tree wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: You weren't just leveraging arbitrage because the value you were manipulating was fairly abritrary. This would not be acceptable in any financial system at all. I know ya'll are having fun pretending this is just A OK but I'm telling you it's not.
That things which would never be acceptable in real world financial systems are allowed in EVE is a central and fundamental positive which draws people to this game. The sandbox is an unregulated market that has winners and losers. Some people make stupid mistakes in this game; goons profit off that stupidity. This is only special in terms of scale, which is a comment on the scale of the stupid mistake that was taken advantage of.
Still want to know if Sreegs has ever read market discussion. |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
109
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened.
Shocking. |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
109
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Tomytronic wrote:It sounds like Sreegs is being given the task of defending others' bad design implementations. Which is a pretty strange remit to have for his job title. Does this count as that new rule about getting permabanned for attacking CCP yet? They were pretty vague on the specifics of that rule too
I heard CCP staff smell of elderberries.
c/d |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
110
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened. I can only speak for myself but I did not ever receive any detail whatsoever regarding this until after it had been taken advantage of. From anyone. That being said we were aware that there was problems with the design and a fix had already been written for it.
So why do you deploy stuff before fixing it then blame the players and/or break the game? |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
110
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote: Why can't people do everything perfect the first time?
I always do. even my post edits were planned in the first draft
Damn right.
edit: totally typo'd. |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
110
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ryunosuke Kusanagi wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Kazanir wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
2. Maybe, just maybe, you guys at CCP will start listening to your player base before rolling out changes.
maybe, just maybe listening to the rest of the playerbase OVER the goons not the other war round We tried to warn CCP repeatedly about the design flaw of using market averages for single items well before Inferno was released. No one listened. I can only speak for myself but I did not ever receive any detail whatsoever regarding this until after it had been taken advantage of. From anyone. That being said we were aware that there was problems with the design and a fix had already been written for it. Wait, if you knew of the problem and had a fix for it already, why did you NOT hotfix it?
Because game development is actually metrics development. |
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Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
110
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Posted - 2012.06.23 15:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
You'll have to ask the people who deploy things that. My job is to clean up afterwards.
Well at least you won't have to worry about finding a new one for the foreseeable future. |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
111
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 15:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Holander Switzerland wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
When you say it it's hearsay. Aryth can post whatever he likes on the forums that doesn't make it true. Words on a forum are not evidence of conduct. It's really quite simple.
Alright, fair enough. I'm going to assume what you're saying is hearsay though too because its clear you had no idea what you're talking about.
This whole thread is hearsay.
Especially this post. |
Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
111
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Posted - 2012.06.23 16:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:So many people talking about the sandbox
Quick question whats a sandbox and it's limits?
For me i always thing it was a game were everyone plays together and doesn't have limits but now i'm kinda lost
The limit is where the sand becomes a great big pile of money for you to roll around in before magicking back into sand. |
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