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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
529
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 18:55:00 -
[301] - Quote
abitrubbish wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Ituhata Saken wrote:Dearest Market-Interested Space Tycoons,
At downtime today we made an adjustment to the average price of some items in order to curb a situation whereby the average price of an item could be manipulated in order to create a disparity between the value of an item in Isk and its value in Loyalty Point payouts. There will be additional changes in how this system works in the future. We will be monitoring for attempted manipulation of the LP market and will reverse any proceeds deemed to have been obtained through manipulative means. We are watching you. DonGGVt be That Guy.
By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch. OP admits that his alliance broke the EULA by exploiting. Again. And CCP lets them stay. And its directly because you cant afford to ban them. Absolutely disgusting. Consider me unsubbed. Can't believe it took so many pages. Oh, bye.
It has nothing to do with pages in a thread, it has to do with CCP's inability to manage their company.
Eventually there will be either no goons, or no server. SInce the game is free, my toons will be here as long as yours, if not longer.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled **** poast. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
302
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 18:55:00 -
[302] - Quote
Well if CCP takes all your hard earned ISK away, then I don't really have much to say other than "well, ****."
If they don't, however, I'm simply in this thread to say that I wish I had thought of it first. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. (Link was wrong, now fixed) |

Cameron Zero
Red Federation
56
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 18:55:00 -
[303] - Quote
Cool story. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GG*" |

Suqq Madiq
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
84
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 18:55:00 -
[304] - Quote
Yawn. |

Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
43
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 18:55:00 -
[305] - Quote
Aryth wrote:This also meant that we could cash out our hundreds of billions of ISK worth of minerals at prices far higher than on the market. For example, we cashed out Megacyte at 3300, Zydrine 1400, Nocxium at 900. So some of the very largest stockpiles of pre-drone nerf minerals no longer exists. Tying back into the mineral manipulation we have been engaging in. The test quickly became even bigger than anticipated because upon release, FW turned out to have a bug that rewarded LP for both dropped and exploded cargo, doubling the rewards. So we went to work, sending hundreds of billions of ISK worth of highend minerals to Yulai to be blown up. Why Yulai? Anyone enlisted in faction warfare gets shot at by faction police of the opposing factions. Yulai and its entire constellation are owned by CONCORD, which is neutral territory. Thus, both FW alts could move through peacefully. Also, Yulai has an GG#Inner CircleGG% station, which was just plain funny. How fitting that Yulai, once the most important system in Eve, finally becomes relevant again.
Yulai, you say?
Interesting.
I'll have to go visit some time. Rabble Rabble!! |

Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
814
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 18:56:00 -
[306] - Quote
Pyrus Octavius wrote:I hate to say this, but I feel really stupid. Never in a million years would I have figured out something like this. Obviously, not all men are created equally (and I use men loosely because most of you grown ups still act like children).
My personal feeling regardless is, any gains made in this fashion should be confiscated. I don't think I care about bans, but the gains be taken away. I'm not a market guru what so ever, and even though someone said in here that the market would return to normal in 30 days, the whole system was manipulated, and this hurts innocent bystanders, whom will never get their ISK back.
It's stuff like this that also has just made me not enjoy playing EVE too much. Log in check toon, say hi, change skill, log. That's my routine. Hoping that someday things will get to a better state where I feel the time I invest in sitting in front of my computer will be rewarding. Until then... So.... You are mad because you didn't think of it first, and so you think everyone who profited should lose their stuff.
Sounds fair to me 
At least you were halfway honest about it tho  Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2410
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 18:57:00 -
[307] - Quote
Pyrus Octavius wrote:I hate to say this, but I feel really stupid. Never in a million years would I have figured out something like this. Obviously, not all men are created equally (and I use men loosely because most of you grown ups still act like children).
My personal feeling regardless is, any gains made in this fashion should be confiscated. I don't think I care about bans, but the gains be taken away. I'm not a market guru what so ever, and even though someone said in here that the market would return to normal in 30 days, the whole system was manipulated, and this hurts innocent bystanders, whom will never get their ISK back.
It's stuff like this that also has just made me not enjoy playing EVE too much. Log in check toon, say hi, change skill, log. That's my routine. Hoping that someday things will get to a better state where I feel the time I invest in sitting in front of my computer will be rewarding. Until then...
You should join Minmatar faction warfare, sometimes all this crazy market manipulation high finance shennanigans-in-the-sky just randomly makes 10m isk fleet stabbers fall in your lap and you can content yourself by having fun and not worrying about how much the 0.0 aristocray have got. Play a cybernetic rat in the wainscotting of Eve Online, sometimes even rats have a good day.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |

Courthouse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
252
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 18:57:00 -
[308] - Quote
Pyrus Octavius wrote:I hate to say this, but I feel really stupid. Never in a million years would I have figured out something like this. Obviously, not all men are created equally (and I use men loosely because most of you grown ups still act like children).
Who's worse? The 'grown ups who act like children' or the mature, educated and quite obviously better than us grown ups who follow our lead? |

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
423
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 18:57:00 -
[309] - Quote
Pyrus Octavius wrote:My personal feeling regardless is, any gains made in this fashion should be confiscated. I don't think I care about bans, but the gains be taken away. I'm not a market guru what so ever, and even though someone said in here that the market would return to normal in 30 days, the whole system was manipulated, and this hurts innocent bystanders, whom will never get their ISK back.
Some time ago, I was holding a very large stash of Plasmoids. Then, some clown came along and bought all the plasmoids in Jita, relisted them considerably higher, and put up a big buy order that was well above what I had bought at. So naturally, I bombed out his order and put up my remaining plasmoids on sells at the price at which his buy order had been. Within a day, plenty of new Plasmoids orders had filled in below me, and the market tumbled.
Now, this guy tried to manipulate the system and got hurt. I'm pretty sure he never got the isk back, too.
The moral of the story here is that the market is PvP, and there are no innocent bystanders. If CCP elects for consequences, so be it, but your reason for them is laughable.
Xuixien wrote:Aryth wrote:This also meant that we could cash out our hundreds of billions of ISK worth of minerals at prices far higher than on the market. For example, we cashed out Megacyte at 3300, Zydrine 1400, Nocxium at 900. So some of the very largest stockpiles of pre-drone nerf minerals no longer exists. Tying back into the mineral manipulation we have been engaging in. The test quickly became even bigger than anticipated because upon release, FW turned out to have a bug that rewarded LP for both dropped and exploded cargo, doubling the rewards. So we went to work, sending hundreds of billions of ISK worth of highend minerals to Yulai to be blown up. Why Yulai? Anyone enlisted in faction warfare gets shot at by faction police of the opposing factions. Yulai and its entire constellation are owned by CONCORD, which is neutral territory. Thus, both FW alts could move through peacefully. Also, Yulai has an GG#Inner CircleGG% station, which was just plain funny. How fitting that Yulai, once the most important system in Eve, finally becomes relevant again. Yulai, you say? Interesting.I'll have to go visit some time. Feel free, its not like anything is happening there anymore.
ps - there are no kills posted because we took steps to make sure they didn't get posted. |

Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
58
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 18:59:00 -
[310] - Quote
CCP's resident economist should be fired. Period. Done. Along with quite a few others at CCP.
After the CCP Community Censorship Protocol ("CCCP") was enacted, I obviously can't say exactly what I think of whom. (And, I don't mean of the Goons.) |
|

Nyrak
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
15
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:00:00 -
[311] - Quote
Ironic how CCP Soundwave was all for cutting out research points for us little folks since he saw it as too easy of a passive income to give to Factional Warfare as a reward. I wonder what he thinks now? |

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
423
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:02:00 -
[312] - Quote
Nyrak wrote:Ironic how CCP Soundwave was all for cutting out research points for us little folks since he saw it as too easy of a passive income to give to Factional Warfare as a reward. I wonder what he thinks now? He did predict that FW would break somehow during an interview with TenTonHammer. If I recall, he even said he WANTED it to break.
Probably not quite what he had in mind, but there you go. |

Mme Pinkerton
65
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:03:00 -
[313] - Quote
Pyrus Octavius wrote:My personal feeling regardless is, any gains made in this fashion should be confiscated. I don't think I care about bans, but the gains be taken away. I'm not a market guru what so ever, and even though someone said in here that the market would return to normal in 30 days, the whole system was manipulated, and this hurts innocent bystanders, whom will never get their ISK back.
what are you going to do about the 20m I saved when buying a +5 implant because goons had crashed that market? An IPO guide (David H'Levi) | Towards a Positive Argument For Investing (RAW23) | Freighter Operations 101 (Kazuo Ishiguro) | Dominion market analysis (Akita T)
|

Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
150
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:03:00 -
[314] - Quote
Oh my God it finally happened. Autism broke Eve.
EEeehmmm... and not a single **** was given that day. Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity. |

Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
182
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:04:00 -
[315] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Pisov viet wrote:Quote: I would strongly suggest, that if you want to hit T5 again. You do it before Amarr grind down the fortress. You guys are still benefiting a great deal from our work. Once they grind down all your 5'ed systems, it's probably game over for you
Confirming this. If nothing else change, minmatar will hold 56 systems after tomorrow's DT, which, once upgraded, will get them just enough to get in T5, maybe one last time before amarr starts ******* them up. This assumes that "Goon manipulation" is the reason we've held 56 systems in the first place.  All the Goons are claiming to do is to have propped up the WZ control level with their invested LP. That doesnt mean that the Amarr are necessarily going to suddenly surge forward now that our "backers" are gone. They lost all their space long before this manipulation ever took place. It's not like the easy money has anything to do with why we are winning the territory war. If Goons were claiming to have rolled hundreds of plexing alts into the militia to grind system captures, that would be a different case entirely, but they're not. Also, the end of manipulation of the WZ control doesn't make Tier 5 a suddenly impossible achievement. It takes several million LP to invest every one of 56 systems to level V, this is easily earned by a handful of individual pilots investing an afternoon's worth of work. In other words, Goons are *not* the only ones capable of a coordinated pooling of LP upgrades by any means.
The majority of complaints had nothing to do with the fact that the Minmatar held 56 systems beforehand and had everything to do with the act that things were a ridiculously broken uphill grind due to the goon manipulations. The fact that as CSM you refused to look into things further and are content to just dismiss Amarr complaints that things were broken as just being the "losers" whining is sad especially when a lot of the people bringing up these concerns were new players to FW providing relatively neutral input.
You still seem to be in denial over the impact of the manipulations, it way overincentivized having a Minmatar LP farming alt, which should have been a red flag. The disparity in LP payouts as a whole was fairly demoralizing for the Amarr FW side especially with the ease at which Minmatar maintained high T4/borderline T5 control at all times. If you guys are able to get up to T5 on your own then kudos, but seriously, as CSM you need to get more in tune with the realities of FW and quit drinking your own kool-aid.
The moar you cry the less you pee |

Pisov viet
Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore
56
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:05:00 -
[316] - Quote
CCP's handling of Isk->LP->Isk conversion rates |

Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
101
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:06:00 -
[317] - Quote
Haifisch Zahne wrote:CCP's resident economist should be fired. Period. Done. Along with quite a few others at CCP.
After the CCP Community Censorship Protocol ("CCCP") was enacted, I obviously can't say exactly what I think of whom. (And, I don't mean of the Goons.)
CCP's economist isn't dumb, he just doesn't understand EVE. |

Zvero
EVE University Ivy League
0
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:07:00 -
[318] - Quote
1. Someone at CCP is feeding Goons with internal information. 2. CCP starts internal investigation. 3. Goons post lousy explanation on forums to protect their source. |

Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
196
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:08:00 -
[319] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote:Courthouse wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:OP admits that his alliance broke the EULA by exploiting.
Again.
And CCP lets them stay.
And its directly because you cant afford to ban them.
Absolutely disgusting.
Consider me unsubbed.
Don't you unsub like every other week because goons did a thing? I can swear you said the same **** for burn jita and the gallente ice interdictions. He bought a 10 year sub and has to wait for it to run out.  Hmmm With all the ISK that goonies have made could they say they quit as well and keep playing for then next 10 years. Oh wait can you chain in multiple plex's and how many can you do ? Hmm makes you wonder. 9000 members * 12 months * 10 Years = 1,080,000 Plex's
I was already a trillionare even before this. I have only used plex for my subs for many years.
|

Xuixien
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
43
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:08:00 -
[320] - Quote
corestwo wrote:its not like anything is happening there anymore.
Well, according to killboards nothing has happened in that entire constellation - for the past 4 months.
corestwo wrote:ps - there are no kills posted because we took steps to make sure they didn't get posted.
Riiiiight. I believe you.  Rabble Rabble!! |
|

Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
815
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:08:00 -
[321] - Quote
Dramaticus wrote:Haifisch Zahne wrote:CCP's resident economist should be fired. Period. Done. Along with quite a few others at CCP.
After the CCP Community Censorship Protocol ("CCCP") was enacted, I obviously can't say exactly what I think of whom. (And, I don't mean of the Goons.) CCP's economist isn't dumb, he just doesn't understand EVE. Didn't he win a nobel or something like that for his work prior to coming to CCP?
He is one of the best economists in the world, but he is still part of the real world, and I am pretty sure doesn't play EVE. Certainly not at the level that people who engage in market manipulation do. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |

Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1101
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:08:00 -
[322] - Quote
Zvero wrote:1. Someone at CCP is feeding Goons with internal information. 2. CCP starts internal investigation. 3. Goons post lousy explanation on forums to protect their source.
my god he's cracked it |

Maggie Maggie
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:08:00 -
[323] - Quote
Dramaticus wrote:Haifisch Zahne wrote:CCP's resident economist should be fired. Period. Done. Along with quite a few others at CCP.
After the CCP Community Censorship Protocol ("CCCP") was enacted, I obviously can't say exactly what I think of whom. (And, I don't mean of the Goons.) CCP's economist isn't dumb, he just doesn't understand EVE.
Aryth for CCP economist!
He Knows EVE
|

Aznwithbeard
The Tuskers
0
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:10:00 -
[324] - Quote
You guys do realize this is just a game right? and your plotting and trolling and "rolling in 300 trillions of isk" is just you like, playing a video game?
Its sad that you put all this effort into a game and not IRL.
Just saying. |

Kytayn
Two Brothers Mining Corp. The Retirement Club
33
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:10:00 -
[325] - Quote
Taking OP at face value (and I see no reason not to), I have to say this did change my opinion of the Goons (not that that matters one bit). They put significantly more effort into playing the metagame than most of us would think to do, shredded the economic model through a protracted effort over months and months, and the end result will be... CPP fixing the game to make it stronger (potentially), like Goonswarm has insisted all along. They may have their wallets reset at the end of the investigation, but the payoff wasn't the ISK in the first place.
That is impressive. Well done. |

Heimdallofasgard
T.O.R.
169
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:10:00 -
[326] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Aryth wrote:Xenuria wrote:Vile rat wrote:You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. Holy ****.. Vile rat! You actually logged in long enough to post something. Also kudos, it's not often you goons impress me but when you do it's something like this. You guys did get a head start on this and your involvement pretty much prevented me from taking any meaningful advantage of what my team and I had gleaned in a similar fashion. OH well... I recommend you guys spend some time on diablo 3 real money auction house. I am making ridiculous cash with that. It's not to late to make some quick easy cash before gold becomes a purchasable commodity and then the price of everything plummets. Un-ironically, the majority of people working with me on this are from EVE. Some of us already are. Not my cup of tea though. I believe adanthar has made 4 figures already. Not bad, I mean the biggest payout was shortly after the RMAH went live. These people with way to much disposable income didn't seem to care much about price and just anamatronically bought out anything that had the highest dps. Which was typically something I put up that I had bought off the gold auction house. I don't know how much I have made so far in total because anything in my paypal that I don't use right away goes to my campaign for CSM or gets turned into plex. That Reminds me I need to make a kickstarter for that.
Xenuria, pretending he's relevant, how are those 200 maligned voters doing?
I take it some of them make up your "team"? hahaha, you're like the guy who reads a wikipedia page on something then pretends to be an immediate expert in whatever transgender issues interests your sick mind.
I hope your "kickstarter" elaborates on the themes of your last attempt:
*cringe* Kick Heim. |

Fix Lag
290
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:11:00 -
[327] - Quote
Sreegs used to be my CEO
oh how the mighty have fallen |

Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3618
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:11:00 -
[328] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:corestwo wrote:its not like anything is happening there anymore. Well, according to killboards nothing has happened in that entire constellation - for the past 4 months. corestwo wrote:ps - there are no kills posted because we took steps to make sure they didn't get posted. Riiiiight. I believe you.  eve-kill only gets your kills if you give it an api
you could easily see on dotlan how many ships were destroyed there |

Jones Bones
Imperial Outlaws
110
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:11:00 -
[329] - Quote
Wait, why would they roll anything back? 5T is a drop in the bucket of the EVE economy. Lotta herpa derp in here. |

Fix Lag
290
 |
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:11:00 -
[330] - Quote
Just kidding, Sreegs, we still love you, but try not to draw comparisons to bank errors and intentional market manipulation because it's a terrible analogy, TIA |
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