Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 .. 106 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
405
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 13:46:00 -
[2311] - Quote
Quote: funny how you think abusing a code bug is exactly the same as "abusing" an unintended gameplay design decision
Funny how you think it's not. |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
72
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 13:47:00 -
[2312] - Quote
fyi this is like people "abusing" ingame insurance payouts when they were higher than the cost of the exploded ship. guess who haven't gotten their "ill-gotten" ISK taken away Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 13:48:00 -
[2313] - Quote
Greetings
All I have to say is WOW freaking awesome! You have to love it when a plan comes together. High Fives all around and you guys are buying forever!
vr East IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
72
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 13:48:00 -
[2314] - Quote
in fact the insurance fraud was even worse for the economy because it injected ISK into it out of thin air. but I'm not going to discuss ISK sinks and faucets in this thread because there's like 10 people on this board who understand what those are Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
250
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 13:50:00 -
[2315] - Quote
Bolow Santosi wrote:Mars Theran wrote:
Create a fake database value to be used in FW LP reward calculation for ship kills, then go inject fake database number into calculation for LP by killing a ship with fake database number in cargo or as ship. Sell LP and Profit.
They never created a fake database value. They inflated slow moving/stagnant items and manipulated them to be significantly higher so they could generate LP more efficiently and effectively. Nothing about that is fake.
I fail to see your logic as you fail to see mine apparently.
Flipping an item back and forth between alts in some backwater system for 250 thousand times, (random multiple for the sake of clarity), what it is worth to register it at that inflated value in CCPs database that tracks item values based on market movement over a period of time, (in this case stated as 90 days in the OP), so that you can then blow up said item and have the database call return that inflated value for use in a calculation that determines the amount of LP to reward for the related kill based on the ISK value of objects destroyed is what it is, an exploit.
It's also creating a fake database value using open, (i.e: sandbox), game mechanics. In case you haven't figured it out, that is practically the definition of an exploit.
I have no way of determining to what extent that particular exploit was used, but the OP himself stated quite clearly in the OP that he and his cabal did it early on when they were aware that dropped value was also being calculated, (which they took equal advantage of), and though he didn't say as much, he did state that they had to rethink, (i.e: recalculate profitable means), after that was fixed.
He didn't state that he stopped using it, and quite obviously it was still in use or the whole thing would have been without purpose as they would have been relying on nothing more than market trends and the base calculation which wasn't flawed provided that everything relied on uninflated, normal markets and database values.
I have deleted and cleared my signature 7 times and it still won't go away. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1571
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 13:52:00 -
[2316] - Quote
This thread keeps getting worse and worse. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Tony Two Bullet
Monocle Madness The Mockers AO
61
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 13:57:00 -
[2317] - Quote
Such is the Cost of Hubris.
CEO-á Monocle Madness ~ Mega-Insane Lotteries for the Mentally Unstable http://www.monoclemadness.com |
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
Perkone Caldari State
204
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 13:57:00 -
[2318] - Quote
Thank you Goons for exposing the truly amazing extent of exploitative Shadow Play in the game of EVE, along with the simultaneous revelation of the utter incompetence of CCP in regards to monitoring the economic heartbeat of this once great game.
"Trust No One" indeed.
Now that players are fleeing to other activities (thank goodness it didn't kill the entire Summer), who will be left to be the next victims ?
Boy, when EVE's end came around, it sure was quick and sudden. Just like in Real Life. Ohh poor silly goon chillrens. Nobody in high sec cares about your plans to occupy jita like a bunch of dirty hippies. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1375
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:00:00 -
[2319] - Quote
Next time somebody does something like this they would be stupid to let ccp know in any manner. That's my takeaway from this :) |
Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
586
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:05:00 -
[2320] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Natasha Fatality wrote:This is really the most fascinating thread I can remember reading in a long time. I feel lucky to have just gotten into EVE right as this is all going down. It seems like a really pivotal moment for the game's community. I have to admit, I really want to become a Goon myself at this point. :) it really is turning into one of those moments that define EVE. Sure I am biased, but doesn't everyone like a happy ending? There are many different "happy endings" to this story. One of them involves giving the power to a single player to completely destroy the LP market for a foreseeable future as a reward for abusing the **** out of a design flaw. I kind of like that idea since I believe that most of your LP is from the Minmatar FW store - it brings a little divine justice to the game. But I am not sure that would mean a "happy ending" for EVE or most of its players.
|
|
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
26
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:06:00 -
[2321] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Next time somebody does something like this they would be stupid to let ccp know in any manner. That's my takeaway from this :) Again, the takeaway is to file a bug report and NOT to abuse the bug/bad design. If it hadn't been abused, there wouldn't be any repercussions. |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1569
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:06:00 -
[2322] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Some LP was seized from people who were abusing, and I do mean abusing, this mechanic in order to prevent a crash of the FW markets. It will stay that way until Monday at the earliest. Who's right then? You or Xhagen? Was it an exploit, or wasn't it?
Me.
Xhagen had no access to any information and is not involved in the investigative process. You can basically use any article written about this thus far for toilet paper as anything contained within the articles is fantasy invented by the bloggers writing the articles. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1569
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:07:00 -
[2323] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Next time somebody does something like this they would be stupid to let ccp know in any manner. That's my takeaway from this :)
That would be remarkably stupid. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
Benedic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:11:00 -
[2324] - Quote
I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. Who knows what the **** you can get punished for next considering if it benefits you in any way they may randomly yank back all your profits. |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
381
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:13:00 -
[2325] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote:Oh please. Grow up. You guys got your noses rubbed in it the way you rub other people's noses in it. Trotting out the PR argument? Really? People all over gaming will rejoice to see the Goons humbled. If anything this will help CCP's image. :whitehat: Nothing Found |
M Expedience
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:15:00 -
[2326] - Quote
Holander Switzerland wrote:Can I get a list of things I can legitimately do in game so I don't get banned?
By asking, you have already violated the list. |
Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
586
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:15:00 -
[2327] - Quote
Benedic wrote:I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. I am pretty sure they designed the mechanics with the intention to give a fair market value of items. The coding sucked though.
|
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1151
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:15:00 -
[2328] - Quote
Why is Sreegs involved? This is not a security issue, no accounts were hacked, nothing was botted, nothing was exploited using "hacking" methods. It was down and dirty market manipulation caused by the lack of foresight on the side of one of EVE's devs - not Sreegs.
I don't see why CCP/Sreegs felt the need to prevent a crash of the factional warfare market, especially when a) the cabal specifically said that they weren't going to do that and b) SANDBOX |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1576
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:16:00 -
[2329] - Quote
Benedic wrote:I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. Who knows what the **** you can get punished for next considering if it benefits you in any way they may randomly yank back all your profits.
I find it disturbing that you think you could exploit a system to print money and crash markets and we'd just be like "Oh haha those cards".
We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
586
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:17:00 -
[2330] - Quote
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:Why is Sreegs involved? This is not a security issue, no accounts were hacked, nothing was botted, nothing was exploited using "hacking" methods. It was down and dirty market manipulation caused by the lack of foresight on the side of one of EVE's devs - not Sreegs.
I don't see why CCP/Sreegs felt the need to prevent a crash of the factional warfare market, especially when a) the cabal specifically said that they weren't going to do that and b) SANDBOX Abusing the game on a scale that can break it is not a security issue? |
|
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1151
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:20:00 -
[2331] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote:Why is Sreegs involved? This is not a security issue, no accounts were hacked, nothing was botted, nothing was exploited using "hacking" methods. It was down and dirty market manipulation caused by the lack of foresight on the side of one of EVE's devs - not Sreegs.
I don't see why CCP/Sreegs felt the need to prevent a crash of the factional warfare market, especially when a) the cabal specifically said that they weren't going to do that and b) SANDBOX Abusing the game on a scale that can break it is not a security issue?
game wasn't abused to the extent of breaking it, the dudes involved told CCP about the manipulation and stopped it. it was a programming issue. |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1576
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:21:00 -
[2332] - Quote
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:Lexmana wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote:Why is Sreegs involved? This is not a security issue, no accounts were hacked, nothing was botted, nothing was exploited using "hacking" methods. It was down and dirty market manipulation caused by the lack of foresight on the side of one of EVE's devs - not Sreegs.
I don't see why CCP/Sreegs felt the need to prevent a crash of the factional warfare market, especially when a) the cabal specifically said that they weren't going to do that and b) SANDBOX Abusing the game on a scale that can break it is not a security issue? game wasn't abused to the extent of breaking it, the dudes involved told CCP about the manipulation and stopped it. it was a programming issue.
Abusing a programming issue is still abuse and you know this. The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
201
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:22:00 -
[2333] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Vile rat wrote:Next time somebody does something like this they would be stupid to let ccp know in any manner. That's my takeaway from this :) That would be remarkably stupid. why?
the ferrogel exploit went on for at least 1.5 years without CCP interference
seems like one can keep these things going for quite some time as long as one doesn't overdo it (as goons did in this case) and tbh the cost of a few accounts isn't much of a deterrent considering the potential rewards.
My interpretation is that the jewbal guys hoped they would get to keep part of the proceeds as long as they are open about what they did, don't try to launder any of the wealth they gained through this mechanic and blow the whistle (see ev0ke example).
But when the choice is between "make crazy profit for a few weeks, blow the whistle and get the proceeds subsequently removed" and "make steady profit for several months, launder the proceeds and get your account eventually banned" the choice isn't hard.
|
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1449
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:23:00 -
[2334] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Enaris Kerle wrote: Who's right then? You or Xhagen? Was it an exploit, or wasn't it?
Me. Xhagen had no access to any information and is not involved in the investigative process. You can basically use any article written about this thus far for toilet paper as anything contained within the articles is fantasy invented by the bloggers writing the articles.
CCP Sreegs wrote:Vile rat wrote:Next time somebody does something like this they would be stupid to let ccp know in any manner. That's my takeaway from this :) That would be remarkably stupid.
CCP Sreegs wrote: I find it disturbing that you think you could exploit a system to print money and crash markets and we'd just be like "Oh haha those cards".
We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that.
Pure ownage. I'm so hot for you now Sreegs. G¥ñ |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1576
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:24:00 -
[2335] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Vile rat wrote:Next time somebody does something like this they would be stupid to let ccp know in any manner. That's my takeaway from this :) That would be remarkably stupid. why? the ferrogel exploit went on for at least 1.5 years without CCP interference seems like one can keep these things going for quite some time as long as one doesn't overdo it (as goons did in this case) and tbh the cost of a few accounts isn't much of a deterrent considering the potential rewards. My interpretation is that the jewbal guys hoped they would get to keep part of the proceeds as long as they are open about what they did, don't try to launder any of the wealth they gained through this mechanic and make sure they are the first ones to blow the whistle (see ev0ke example). But when the choice is between "make crazy profit for a few weeks, blow the whistle and get the proceeds subsequently removed" and "make steady profit for several months, launder the proceeds and get your account eventually banned" the choice isn't hard.
In the scenario you paint the punishment would be significantly more severe. I can't speak to the ferrogel exploit as I didn't work here at the time. I can only speak to what I'm responsible for. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:24:00 -
[2336] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:I find it disturbing that you think you could exploit a system to print money and crash markets and we'd just be like "Oh haha those cards". you mean, as disturbing as allowing an issue like this to be deployed on to the live servers? |
Enaris Kerle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:26:00 -
[2337] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that. Nobody is questioning whether you're in your right to do whatever you want with accounts, it's whether you're going to set a precedent for retroactively punishing people for doing things that were well within the design parameters of the game. Gallente born and raised, and tutored as a pleasure slave and courtesan to the exotic tastes of the Amarri court. Jade's career veered violently off course when a diplomatic envoy's transport was blown to pieces in mysterious circumstances and she was rescued from the escape pods by the enigmatic genetic mastermind Athule Snanm. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
425
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:26:00 -
[2338] - Quote
Benedic wrote:I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. Who knows what the **** you can get punished for next considering if it benefits you in any way they may randomly yank back all your profits.
i dunno... this was a new feature and usually when its being introduced there are aspects of it that ccp does not intend to be features... obviously this was one of them which is why they hot fixed it when they did...
pretty much what goons did was find someones wallet and inside of it was a winning lotto ticket... instead of returning it they cashed it in...
PLEX FOR PIZZA! -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1588
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:28:00 -
[2339] - Quote
Enaris Kerle wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that. Nobody is questioning whether you're in your right to do whatever you want with accounts, it's whether you're going to set a precedent for retroactively punishing people for doing things that were well within the design parameters of the game.
By that standard the ferrogel exploit was also within the parameters. I don't know why this seems to not be sinking in. All exploits were programmed. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
Haquer
Vorkuta Inc Goonswarm Federation
66
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 14:29:00 -
[2340] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Benedic wrote:I find it quite disturbing that you can be punished by finding clever ways to profit from the rules of Eve. This was no exploit, it was using the code and systems the way they were designed. Who knows what the **** you can get punished for next considering if it benefits you in any way they may randomly yank back all your profits. I find it disturbing that you think you could exploit a system to print money and crash markets and we'd just be like "Oh haha those cards". We haven't punished anyone to date. We haven't even decided if we will but boy howdy are we well within our rights to do so and I'm just astounded that I even have to explain that.
You seem pretty mad that a group of players are smarter than you.
Weird. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 .. 106 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |