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knowsitall
Science and Finance
0
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Posted - 2012.06.21 20:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
So i have seen many threads about how hi-sec is over-populated and low-sec is under populated. Now im not going to say what the numbers should be for dispersion, that is a design discussion for CPP. Most of these thread have been about nerfing this or buffing that, my idea is different.
Firstly a bit about me as an Eve player and how i see Eve.
1) I'm mainly now an industrialist now but over my 7 years of playing Eve i have played most game styles and played most content types. There is 2 things i have never done however, FW or incursions. So if my idea would need to accomadate these feel free to develop it further. 2) I consider Eve a PvP* game. 3) I don't want to tell other players how they should play Eve.
* I define PvP as anytime a PLAYER is competing with another PLAYER. So this includes pew pew but does not exclusively equal pew pew. So a station trader is performing PvP, as they are competing; with their market orders against other players orders.
I am going to go through my thought processes that lead to the "final" design so as to explain how i think these changes would allow CPP to control the population dispersion in Eve. So above i did not mention null-sec, well to my mind null-sec can look after itself. If the players in null-sec don't like null-sec then im sure they could change it without game mechanics needing to be changed. Many of the things people say about null-sec is player driven, No NPC ganks you at a gate when you try to enter, players do. But i don't want to get into null-sec, i have not lived there for a couple of years so i don't feel qualified.
I'm going to use mining for most of my examples but i think that this can be equally true for all resources, be that roids, station slots, agents, exploration sites to name but a few.
When i refer to players i mean active players actually doing things and interacting with other players and the world, becuase who cares if a character that is just logging in and changing skills is in Hi/Lo/Null sec, it really does not affect anyone.
First change Reduce the size of hi-sec and turn it all into low-sec. The exact amount would need to be worked out from CPP doing a reasonable mount of data mining of player activity, but for an example lets say 1 region per faction.
Result All Hi-Sec player would crush up and you would have less dispersion, probably not the desired result.
Second Change Change the amount or respawn rates of resources as per true sec status. So don't nerf/buff anything a such, keep the mechanics as they are now but make the amount of things deplete if over exploited. So with the mining example lets make up some number like (again would need data mining to get what you wanted, so don't get hung up on the numbers) 1.0-0.8 roids respawn every 4 days 0.7-0.5 roids respawn every 3 days 0.4-0.2 roids respawn every 2 days 0.2-0.0 roids respawn every day This would result in empty systems, at the moment it would be very hard to strip hi-sec of all roids, if not impossible.
Result hi-sec players start to run out of resources to exploit so they will disperse. Well probably not, there is the problem of the game mechanism that can generate an inifite amount of resources on demand. This is of course missions. So you will get everyone complaining that there this change is killing mining, building (lack of building slots), research etc but they could move to low-sec but why should they when the mission runner don't have to.
Third change Change mission agents so in a given time period they only offer so many missions then they tell you they nothing to offer you, come back later. This is not an amount per player this is fixed amount between all players. This way mission runners have to compete with other mission runners for missions. By controling the amount of missions available in hi-sec you can determine at what population level the returns start diminishing as you wait or have to move around for another agent (remember hi-sec is not that big at this point).
Result As hi-sec over populates people have to move to low-sec to find things to do. Lots of people move to low-sec and they all get ganked by pirates. Again this is the first thought then as long as when you reassigned all that high sec you did not leave choke points that can be camped then maybe not. It would be the herd idea, low-sec is now huge so is there enough pirates that they could gank everyone in this massive area, probably not as they got timers to worry about stuff. So an individual may get unlucky but the population as a whole is probably fine.
That is the meat of it. There are some edge cases to consider like new player tutorial, what do you do if you being taught how to mine and the system has been stripped. I would suggest making the tutorial be a simulator, which you could implemented as a system with no gates that you get transported to and from when you do the tutorials but noone else can get there. Im sure there are many others to consider but that is why i put final in quotes at the top.
Well if you have read this far, thank you.
Feel free to Comment/Flame/Troll/Develop/Everything else people do on forums.
Regards
knowsitall |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
32
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Posted - 2012.06.21 20:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
to be honest, the issue is that low sec is just a no-mans land in terms of doing anything except looking for a fight.
i'm mostly a miner, and from my perspective mining in low sec is an idea as smart as using your manhood as a thermometer to check the boiling point of water.
the difference between low sec ore and high sec ore is roughly 360k per jetcan right now. so for 360k per jetcan you'll leave concord's warm embrace? not to mention the logistical pain that is moving ore from low sec, to jita to sell it.
as for null sec, that's just a case of getting in to a corp/alliance so that local is full of blues, not so bad. however low sec is just a no man's land of pointlessness from a mining perspective. |
knowsitall
Science and Finance
1
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Posted - 2012.06.21 20:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
but if you can only mine a limited number of jet cans in hi-sec before it is stripped until the next respawn time. low sec suddenly looks better once hi-sec is stripped. Even if it is mining in a none barge, say a cruiser, some ore is better than no ore, and low-sec is now huge helping you "hide". |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1340
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Posted - 2012.06.21 20:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:to be honest, the issue is that low sec is just a no-mans land in terms of doing anything except looking for a fight.
i'm mostly a miner, and from my perspective mining in low sec is an idea as smart as using your manhood as a thermometer to check the boiling point of water.
the difference between low sec ore and high sec ore is roughly 360k per jetcan right now. so for 360k per jetcan you'll leave concord's warm embrace? not to mention the logistical pain that is moving ore from low sec, to jita to sell it.
as for null sec, that's just a case of getting in to a corp/alliance so that local is full of blues, not so bad. however low sec is just a no man's land of pointlessness from a mining perspective. Mining in low sec is easy, as you say it's just not worth the effort of scouting a hulk into an empty system, and your chances of finding a low sec corp with regular fleet boosted mining ops is :lol:
As for making resources scarce in high sec, seems kind of cool. How would you feel about allowing people to fight over those resources?
For example giving people a mechanic by which they can fight for research slots, or fight for control of a certain agent. Or a *real* way to fight miners out of their belts? (because let's face it, suicide ganking is dumb)
Might give high sec bears a reason to hire mercs, and if they start working together there might be a little less hate on the forums. (and a little more objectivity, I might add)
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.06.21 21:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
I pretty much like all approaches. Reducing the huge area of hi-sec is a pretty good point. This could be actually step one as it results in an organical scarcity of resources. Step two could actually be the lower respawn rates of roids as well as the limited amount of missions provided to all players. From a role play perspective the limited availability of missions makes even more sense. |
knowsitall
Science and Finance
3
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Posted - 2012.06.21 21:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Dave stark wrote:to be honest, the issue is that low sec is just a no-mans land in terms of doing anything except looking for a fight.
i'm mostly a miner, and from my perspective mining in low sec is an idea as smart as using your manhood as a thermometer to check the boiling point of water.
the difference between low sec ore and high sec ore is roughly 360k per jetcan right now. so for 360k per jetcan you'll leave concord's warm embrace? not to mention the logistical pain that is moving ore from low sec, to jita to sell it.
as for null sec, that's just a case of getting in to a corp/alliance so that local is full of blues, not so bad. however low sec is just a no man's land of pointlessness from a mining perspective. Mining in low sec is easy, as you say it's just not worth the effort of scouting a hulk into an empty system, and your chances of finding a low sec corp with regular fleet boosted mining ops is :lol: As for making resources scarce in high sec, seems kind of cool. How would you feel about allowing people to fight over those resources? For example giving people a mechanic by which they can fight for research slots, or fight for control of a certain agent. Or a *real* way to fight miners out of their belts? (because let's face it, suicide ganking is dumb) Might give high sec bears a reason to hire mercs, and if they start working together there might be a little less hate on the forums. (and a little more objectivity, I might add)
To a degree this already happens. When i started doing invention i blow up someones POS so i could drop my pos for copy and invention slots. In a reduce hi-sec world this is even more likely as there is a vmuch more limit number of moons. I think roids should be first come first served, like staking your claim of the old days.
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Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
38
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Posted - 2012.06.21 21:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
knowsitall wrote:but if you can only mine a limited number of jet cans in hi-sec before it is stripped until the next respawn time. low sec suddenly looks better once hi-sec is stripped. Even if it is mining in a none barge, say a cruiser, some ore is better than no ore, and low-sec is now huge helping you "hide".
truth be told. if i wasn't already in null sec, and high sec ran out of astroids to pop then i'd look in to going to null sec. if i'm going to have to suffer the logistical bullshit of getting vast quantities of crap through hostile space, i may as well go to the most profitable part of hostile space 0.0. which, is ironically safer than empire for mining and you can get better boosts along with better ores. even more so with your new system of guaranteed daily respawns in 0.0.
alternatively, i'd just log in every 4th day and strip the belts and log out again and do some thing productive with my time for the other 3 days.
from a mining perspective low sec just isn't worth the hassle, even with your new system. |
Hook1971
Catalyst Industries
1
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Posted - 2012.06.21 22:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think with the mining barge changes coming down the line, it will enable miners to venture into low sec/null sec. It will make me feel a bit better knowing that my ships hull is not made out of toilet paper. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
38
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 22:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hook1971 wrote:I think with the mining barge changes coming down the line, it will enable miners to venture into low sec/null sec. It will make me feel a bit better knowing that my ships hull is not made out of toilet paper. you're going to sacrifice concord protection and the logistical issues that come with out of empire space for 500k isk per jetcan in lowsec?
i doubt you would. |
Hook1971
Catalyst Industries
1
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Hook1971 wrote:I think with the mining barge changes coming down the line, it will enable miners to venture into low sec/null sec. It will make me feel a bit better knowing that my ships hull is not made out of toilet paper. you're going to sacrifice concord protection and the logistical issues that come with out of empire space for 500k isk per jetcan in lowsec? i doubt you would.
You're probably right. :) |
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Ruareve
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
13
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Posted - 2012.06.22 03:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
I doubt you'd get the results you want. People won't go to low sec because they are forced to, they'll just quit the game. While I'm sure some people in high sec are null alts I'm equally sure a good chunk of high sec population are people that enjoy the complexity of Eve but aren't full time PVPers. They log on for whatever it is the call fun, take some precautions to avoid being an easy target, and generally don't go looking for a fight for the majority of their play time.
You can't force a person that prefers PVE or prefers to not fight into low sec. That's not why they play and if you push them too hard they'll just find a new game that lets them play they want instead of conforming to someone else's opinion.
Low sec needs a complete overhaul on how it works and what it offers players. Immunity from super caps, ability to claim a limited portion of space, and improved resources (ore, goo, exploration sites) would go a long way to making low sec a place people want to go. Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/ |
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 05:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Until you can solve the issue of people protecting their mining fleet being seen as no different than the pirates coming to gank, Low sec will never ever be viable for mining.
If you are ready for no-mans land you may as well go to a WH or get blued for a 0.0 system where at least your guards can shoot first. |
Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
134
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 05:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ruareve wrote:You can't force a person that prefers PVE or prefers to not fight into low sec. That's not why they play and if you push them too hard they'll just find a new game that lets them play they want instead of conforming to someone else's opinion.
Right there. I sincerely wish people would grasp this concept yet it constantly falls on deaf null ears.
You cannot force other people to change their playstyle. It will not work. Period. People have different ideas of fun and if you take away what they find fun they'll just leave the game and go find another game that is fun for them. Any attempt to force a migration from high to null will only hurt the game's health.
No one has a problem with you wanting to improve null by itself. But these constant whines to improve null by punishing other players that don't share your playstyle is getting tiresome and undermining any support for your problems from your fellow players. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1346
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 06:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Xhaiden Ora wrote:Ruareve wrote:You can't force a person that prefers PVE or prefers to not fight into low sec. That's not why they play and if you push them too hard they'll just find a new game that lets them play they want instead of conforming to someone else's opinion.
Right there. I sincerely wish people would grasp this concept yet it constantly falls on deaf null ears. You cannot force other people to change their playstyle. It will not work. Period. People have different ideas of fun and if you take away what they find fun they'll just leave the game and go find another game that is fun for them. Any attempt to force a migration from high to null will only hurt the game's health. No one has a problem with you wanting to improve null by itself. But these constant whines to improve null by punishing other players that don't share your playstyle is getting tiresome and undermining any support for your problems from your fellow players. You realise of course that null sec is designed to be more profitable than high sec, right?
And that you clearly can force people to change their play style because the anomaly nerfs, along with the myriad of new high sec PvE features introduced over the years, have forced null sec players to create high sec alts.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
134
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 07:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:And that you clearly can force people to change their play style because the anomaly nerfs, along with the myriad of new high sec PvE features introduced over the years, have forced null sec players to create high sec alts.
Right, and I'm sure the forums were just awash with frothing high sec players demanding null players be forced into high sec and do nothing but PVE all the time?
False equivalency aside, again, no one has a problem with null players wanting to improve null sec. They do have a problem with null players wanting to improve it by punishing other players and/or trying to force them into null. You want to play in null all the time and not have to come to high sec? I have no problem with that. You're being forced into high sec to support your chosen playstyle? Yeah, that sucks and I have no problem with you wanting to fix that.
But as long as you keep thinking you can fix it by ******* someone else over, you're not going to get much sympathy. The problem is with null itself and the attitude coming from many of the players within it.
You're sitting over there with a broken arm and proposing you can heal it by punching someone else in the crotch.
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Ruareve
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 08:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: You realise of course that null sec is designed to be more profitable than high sec, right?
And that you clearly can force people to change their play style because the anomaly nerfs, along with the myriad of new high sec PvE features introduced over the years, have forced null sec players to create high sec alts.
How many people simply quit playing the game because of the anomaly nerfs? CCP didn't force those players to change their style, they just forced them to look for a new game.
As for the other part of your statement, you think that because PVE in Eve has more features (interpreted as being more fun) then null sec players were FORCED away from null sec because the appeal of high sec was well... too high?
The corollary there is that your implied method to "fix" null sec is to nerf high sec thus taking away the PVE features (fun) and making people PVP or GTFO.
Maybe, just maybe, people do the PVE stuff because they like PVE and while Eve doesn't have the best PVE the combination of massive economy, complex game play, ability to PVP, and robust PVE system appeals to a lot of people that won't normally touch a pure PVP game.
As much as Eve has a reputation for being a hardcore PVP game there is still some good times to be had doing plain old PVE and it's rather sad that CCP doesn't embrace the PVE potential.
Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/ |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1346
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 08:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ahh, I love it when people assume everyone doing PvE in high sec is doing it for the fun: http://www.evenews24.com/2012/03/16/expose-botwalk-empire-a-th3-untouchabl3s-insight/
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Ruareve
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 09:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Your point?
I can't believe I wasted five minutes of my life reading that article. Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/ |
Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
134
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 09:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
What did that have to do with anything? |
Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 10:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Xhaiden Ora wrote:What did that have to do with anything?
Botting is the highest form of being AFK.
I think the summary is: Hisec is an (AFK-) ISK-making paradise. Being (semi-) AFK is fine, ISK-making in this concern is not (at least not in these huge dimensions compared to low and null). So, risk vs. reward. |
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Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
134
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 11:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rordan D'Kherr wrote:Botting is the highest form of being AFK.
I think the summary is: Hisec is an (AFK-) ISK-making paradise. Being (semi-) AFK is fine, ISK-making in this concern is not (at least not in these huge dimensions compared to low and null). So, risk vs. reward.
Botting is a completely seperate issue and one that needs to be addressed as such. I don't see what it has to do with trying to force people out of high sec. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1346
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 11:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ruareve wrote:Your point?
I can't believe I wasted five minutes of my life reading that article. My point: You think people have fun doing PvE in high sec. I demonstrate one of the best and most widely known examples of people PvEing in high sec purely to gain ISK to influence actions in null sec.
This is a common practice. Plagued by AFK cloakers? Can't defend your space? Don't want to buy upgrades? Screw it, high sec will give you everything for a nominal cut in payout, may as well PvE there.
Ruareve wrote:How many people simply quit playing the game because of the anomaly nerfs? CCP didn't force those players to change their style, they just forced them to look for a new game. Have you seen how proud CCP are of their player retention rates? Now... have you seen Eve's character distribution by average character skill points?
Guess what, those long-standing members of the Eve community are not in high sec. So you think it's a good idea for CCP to "force players to look for a new game", in order to cater to a theme park MMO crowd that barely stay long enough to get a toon past 5 million SP?
Look at all the other themepark MMOs on the market, they have a massive subscription base for a few years, then they die. Eve has survived so long because it has a die hard loyal fan base. Those die hard loyal fans are in null sec. Go figure.
Ruareve wrote:As for the other part of your statement, you think that because PVE in Eve has more features (interpreted as being more fun) then null sec players were FORCED away from null sec because the appeal of high sec was well... too high?
The corollary there is that your implied method to "fix" null sec is to nerf high sec thus taking away the PVE features (fun) and making people PVP or GTFO. Interpreted incorrectly.
And guess what, it's a sand box. PvP and PvE are intertwined. People PvE to fund PvP and people PvP to be able to PvE. High sec, with the current state of NPC alts, war dec evasion and infinite resources, breaks that concept.
Ruareve wrote:Maybe, just maybe, people do the PVE stuff because they like PVE and while Eve doesn't have the best PVE the combination of massive economy, complex game play, ability to PVP, and robust PVE system appeals to a lot of people that won't normally touch a pure PVP game.
As much as Eve has a reputation for being a hardcore PVP game there is still some good times to be had doing plain old PVE and it's rather sad that CCP doesn't embrace the PVE potential. The irony of you calling it a pure PvP game while arguing that people have the right to completely avoid PvP is priceless.
And CCP don't embrace themepark MMO game design because there are plenty of other themepark MMO games, and they do not have a reputation as long-lasting games. Eve is a niche product, which is why it's fan base is so loyal. Remove it from it's niche and the loyal fan base leaves, resulting in a short boom of player rates before the game dies.
As for the economy aspect, it's PvP driven. Cater to high sec demands too much and you get mudflation, which has already happened and CCP are desperately trying to combat it with meta0 and drone region changes.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1346
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 12:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Xhaiden Ora wrote:Rordan D'Kherr wrote:Botting is the highest form of being AFK.
I think the summary is: Hisec is an (AFK-) ISK-making paradise. Being (semi-) AFK is fine, ISK-making in this concern is not (at least not in these huge dimensions compared to low and null). So, risk vs. reward. Botting is a completely seperate issue and one that needs to be addressed as such. I don't see what it has to do with trying to force people out of high sec. My point wasn't really about the botting aspect of it, I was just replying on my phone so I didn't respond in full.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
170
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 12:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
It's interesting that nullsec players who were looking for a new source of income after the anomaly nerf went to highsec missions instead of nullsec or lowsec missions (that pay better and have rewards available that aren't available in highsec).
This does imply that the PvE risk/reward balance for missions is still out of whack. |
HalfArse
Dark Matter Avionics Caldari Navy Reserve
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 12:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Eve is too small - its rare to find a totally empty system and if we disperse high sec population into low sec (which i agree is needed) then there wont be a lonley low sec system anywhere. In order to be able to mine in low sec you either need an empty system or a strong corp that can effectivley lock down the system, which without warp bubbles would be very hard.
Make eve bigger - much bigger |
Ruareve
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 12:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:My point: You think people have fun doing PvE in high sec. I demonstrate one of the best and most widely known examples of people PvEing in high sec purely to gain ISK to influence actions in null sec. This is a common practice. Plagued by AFK cloakers? Can't defend your space? Don't want to buy upgrades? Screw it, high sec will give you everything for a nominal cut in payout, may as well PvE there.
You showed that people use bots in high sec to farm isk. How exactly is that relevant to people that actually enjoy the PVE the game has to offer? I never claimed every single person in high sec that PVE's enjoys what they are doing, I simply believe that a good chunk of the people (not bots) that spend time in high sec doing PVE activities do so because they enjoy that aspect of the game. No where did payouts, income, or anything else come into the picture since the OP was talking about FORCING people out of high sec by removing resources thus eliminating the players ability to enjoy a specific playstyle. Leaving a viable and thriving high sec does not interfere with people in low and null because the people (not bots) that enjoy high sec PVE will more than likely leave the game before they are forced into low or null for the convenience of those that want to shoot at the PVE players.
Simi Kusoni wrote:Have you seen how proud CCP are of their player retention rates? Now... have you seen Eve's character distribution by average character skill points? Guess what, those long-standing members of the Eve community are not in high sec. So you think it's a good idea for CCP to "force players to look for a new game", in order to cater to a theme park MMO crowd that barely stay long enough to get a toon past 5 million SP? Look at all the other themepark MMOs on the market, they have a massive subscription base for a few years, then they die. Eve has survived so long because it has a die hard loyal fan base. Those die hard loyal fans are in null sec. Go figure.
Interesting. On one hand you say the long term people have left null to be in high sec but on the other you say they are actually in null and are the die hard fans. I've seen the numbers CCP puts out but I have a hard time understanding how the number of accounts and subscriptions keeps climbing but the average number of people logged in stays the same. Seems like fuzzy math to me. I never said it's a good idea to force players to look for a new game, in fact I said the exact opposite. I said improve low sec since the OP suggested changing a good chunk of high into low. Never once did I make any mention of null sec. Nice strawman attempt though.
Simi Kusoni wrote:Interpreted incorrectly. And guess what, it's a sand box. PvP and PvE are intertwined. People PvE to fund PvP and people PvP to be able to PvE. High sec, with the current state of NPC alts, war dec evasion and infinite resources, breaks that concept. The irony of you calling it a pure PvP game while arguing that people have the right to completely avoid PvP is priceless. And CCP don't embrace themepark MMO game design because there are plenty of other themepark MMO games, and they do not have a reputation as long-lasting games. Eve is a niche product, which is why it's fan base is so loyal. Remove it from it's niche and the loyal fan base leaves, resulting in a short boom of player rates before the game dies. As for the economy aspect, it's PvP driven. Cater to high sec demands too much and you get mudflation, which has already happened and CCP are desperately trying to combat it with meta0 and drone region changes.
I agree the two playstyles are intertwined in Eve and I like that concept. Over the past five years or so I've started spending more time on PVP servers and playing in battlegrounds or open areas because I enjoy the thrill of a possible fight. At no point in my posting did I suggest PVP or PVE should be separated. The only change I think should be made is to look at some of the non-combat ships and ensure the pilots have a reasonable chance to take precautions to avoid being easy prey. That's not related to the OP though so I'll get back on track.
Lets see.. I never argued people have the right to completely avoid PVP. Another strawman. Lots of theme park MMO's are long-lasting games. They don't retain the same level of numbers as they did when they were fresh, but they are still out there today with more subscribers then Eve has in some cases. It's completely possible for Eve to remain a hardcore game while still providing a worthwhile experience for people who like to PVE. First Eve's PVE needs some improvements to AI, adjustments to difficulty, and add some variety, but Eve is a very fun game taken in it's entirety.
As for mudflation... null sec is to blame for the current state of the economy with the isk faucet known as tech moons. I can agree with you on the Meta 0 mods but drone regions are out in null sec if I remember the map correctly. So you can look to null for most of the economic problems, not high.
I'm actually rather amazed at your replies. You link a "article" from one person talking about botting and then from there you create a couple of strawman arguments making up replies to statements that were never made. Then you blame high sec while completely skipping over the fact that null sec is a bigger perpetrator of problems because it fits better with the agenda you are trying to push.
Buff low and null. Make them areas where more people want to go to. Move the population by showing them a carrot and leading them towards new points on the map. At the same time there is no reason not to also provide content and fun for the people that don't care to take the plunge into the harsher side of Eve. That doesn't mean make high sec immune to PVP, it just means offer the players more choices and soon you'll have more players... in all three security areas. Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/ |
Xhaiden Ora
University of Caille Gallente Federation
134
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Posted - 2012.06.22 12:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Guess what, those long-standing members of the Eve community are not in high sec. So you think it's a good idea for CCP to "force players to look for a new game", in order to cater to a theme park MMO crowd that barely stay long enough to get a toon past 5 million SP?
From a business perspective, CCP would cater to its largest player base. However, the "theme park MMO crowd" thats always spoken of doesn't make it through the gaunlet of the difficulty curve anyhow.
Simi Kusoni wrote: Look at all the other themepark MMOs on the market, they have a massive subscription base for a few years, then they die. Eve has survived so long because it has a die hard loyal fan base. Those die hard loyal fans are in null sec. Go figure.
Er....you mean the themepark MMOs that blow EVE's subscription numbers out of the water and have for years? -.-
Simi Kusoni wrote: And CCP don't embrace themepark MMO game design because there are plenty of other themepark MMO games, and they do not have a reputation as long-lasting games. Eve is a niche product, which is why it's fan base is so loyal. Remove it from it's niche and the loyal fan base leaves, resulting in a short boom of player rates before the game dies.
Dear lord, have you even looked at these "themepark mmos" you speak of? Christ even Dark Age of Camelot is still running. You're talking out of your ass. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1346
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Posted - 2012.06.22 12:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
Xhaiden Ora wrote:Dear lord, have you even looked at these "themepark mmos" you speak of? Christ even Dark Age of Camelot is still running. You're talking out of your ass. I bet you dark age of camelot has had relatively stable growth for 9 years running too, eh?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Ruareve
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
13
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Posted - 2012.06.22 13:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: I bet you dark age of camelot has had relatively stable growth for 9 years running too, eh?
Anyone else find it interesting that the changes to PVE over the years have ruined Eve, but on the other hand apparently the subsequent stable growth could in no way be related to making Eve more PVE friendly?
That would be a fairly interesting graphic to see. How does subscription changes in Eve match up against patches that favor PVE? Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/ |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
107
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Posted - 2012.06.22 14:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
Posting in another nerf hi-sec thread. |
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