Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Dracoknight
Strategic Syndicate Chain of Chaos
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 08:49:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Dracoknight on 07/01/2010 08:52:25 Still compairing a BC class to a cruiser class is just ******ed imo, i pick a Titan because it tanks better than a shuttle *blah blah blah*
Anyway,personal preferences, fighting style, skill set: those things is what limits player to pick a cane or a Thorax, ofc a BC hull is better than a rax but still rax is pretty cheap "cast-away" ship and is even do-able for lower skilled pilots of the gallente side.
I aint too much into minmatar though so i dont remember the Hurricane details by heart so i cant really say at the moment, but if you really want to fight a Cane in a thorax hope your ECM drones reach him and your scram in on him before he hits his MWD and runs out of your blaster range.
Edit:
Also like to note here that i like the thorax myself, but due to my low sec base and change of playstyle into BS-blob a.k.a "Cluster F***" i cant really roam the nearby areas in less than a BC without getting hunted by Rooks and kings :P
Anyway, the Thorax is just a high dps cruiser that you just ram up the engines of your pray and hope your guns finish him off before your buffer runs out of air. ____________________
I wish my Thorax could use missiles... |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 09:13:00 -
[32]
The reason we compare the cruiser to the BC is because the Hurricane is better than the Thorax in the Thorax's own role. The role of a T1 cruiser is defined by four things: low price, high speed, and more dps/tank than the ultra-cheap frigates it tends to be a step up from. So how does the Hurricane compare?
1) Cost: both hulls are essentially free thanks to insurance (in fact, my current Hurricane's insurance will provide a slight profit when it explodes), so the cost is limited to the modules. The Thorax wins here by a slight margin, but only because the Hurricane has more slots and all the advantages that they bring. And of course both ships succeed at being cheap alternatives to HACs/recons/etc.
2) Speed: Hurricane wins by a huge margin. It's just plain faster and more agile, and the difference only increases if you bring a friend and fit a gang mod on the Hurricane.
3) DPS: Hurricane wins by a huge margin. Obviously both ships meet the requirement of "more than a frigate", but not only does the Hurricane have considerably better raw dps, the superior range, tracking and choice of damage types of its guns allow it do apply a higher percentage of it to the target. In virtually every possible scenario, the Hurricane will out-gank the Thorax.
4) Tank: Hurricane wins by a huge margin. Like DPS, both ships are better than frigates, but the Hurricane is simply better.
So the only advantage the Thorax has over the Hurricane is the small cost of filling an additional low, mid, and three highs. In every other area, the Hurricane beats the Thorax at its own job.
So stop posting nonsense about Sleipnirs and titans when those ships do NOT have the same role overlap. -----------
|
Oirienicsa
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 09:30:00 -
[33]
Yet you people forget the most important part of lowsec, you have to get the guy whos boat you're violencing to stick around and shoot back or else he'll just jump through the gate and... see you next week.
People are considerably less threatened by a thorax than by a cane. I mean if I'm flying a harbinger and I see a thorax piling on the speed towards me I'm not about to poo bricks, and knowing myself I'd probably engage without much thought.
However with the cane I'd be considerably more wary, unless the character is way younger than me or has already agressed me so I dont get gate guns on me, then I probably wouldnt think of engaging.
tl:dr if it looks threatening people wont bite the bullet and attack.
|
Chloe Ordimus
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 09:37:00 -
[34]
Oh you prats Merin is right.
The whole issue is that the Hurricane is T1, meaning the hull is essentially free.
You can't start bringing in T2 ships into the argument, because they aren't free and fully insurable.
The advantage of a cruiser over a BC is agility and speed. The Thorax is a fat slug with crap agility and short range weapons. Yes it has a nice drone bay. OOHHH!
So there is NO reason to use the Thorax other than the base cost of the hull and the fact you haven't got BC skill up.
It's an incredibly overated crusier. The Rupture, Stabber, Arbitrator, Vexor and arguably the Moa are all either equal or better than the Thorax in most situations.
You guys have to get your heads around the fact that The Battlecruiser hulls, because they use the same size modules as cruisers, are in effect the best bang for buck in EvE and are totally superior to cruisers. The insurance mechanic makes sure that provided you get the capital to buy the first hull and insure it, your losses from losing the ship will only be to module drop.
HAC's offer certain special advatages due to bonuses, but Cruisers are technically just newbie trash.
Doesn't mean you don't have to fly them, it just means the arguments that they are better than BC's coz they are supposely "different" are totally flawed.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 09:46:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Oirienicsa Yet you people forget the most important part of lowsec, you have to get the guy whos boat you're violencing to stick around and shoot back or else he'll just jump through the gate and... see you next week.
This effect is incredibly over-stated, because several things must be true for it to matter:
1) The target must be aware of the threat in time to do something about it. If you're tackling with your frigate alt and then bringing the BC through, for example, this is no longer true.
2) The target must be willing to engage the smaller ship at all. So no carebears who dock and log off the moment a -10 enters local.
3) The target must NOT be willing to engage the larger ship. Obviously if you run into the "what the hell, my ship is ensured, BRING IT ON!" types you aren't going to be losing anything by bringing the bigger ship.
4) The target must NOT be willing to engage the smaller ship because he knows he will easily kill it. For example, if I see a Thorax attempting to engage my nano Curse (a ship in which I would be very reluctant to engage a good Hurricane pilot), sure I'll give the Thorax the fight, but I'm also pretty much guaranteed to WIN the fight.
The end result is that most of the time it is far more important to choose a ship which is capable of killing everything you run into instead of one which is less likely to scare away a target. Who cares if I lose the occasional cruiser kill by flying a Hurricane when instead of baiting bad BC pilots into engaging, I'm baiting HAC/recon pilots? And that's the important part, baiting overconfident targets doesn't suddenly stop being an option just because you bring a better ship, you just get more targets to choose from. -----------
|
Pod Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 10:29:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Inertial
Tbh, you are a nub. The hurricane sucks compared to the Sleipnir, which has more DPS and a bigger tank, also get HG crystals and faction/deadspace/officer fittings or you are a idiot.
If you can't fly a Sleipnir with HG crystals and ALL relevant skills to 5 (minimum), you shouldn't play EVE until you can. Don't blame me if you wasted your time training for the wrong ships.
Or maybe the thorax is a awesome cruiser, and has a 50m3 drone bay, so it can fit 5 EC-600s (seriously do fit them).
The two ships aren't really comparable.
BTW, the Prophecy is a awesome BC because its better than a Ibis.
It is really good written irony makes the other guys look like teenage girls
One look at Merin's posts and signature makes him look 12. It is allways fun how a simple question of opinion on fits boils over to a ****ing contest.
|
Chloe Ordimus
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 11:01:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Pod Amarr
Originally by: Inertial
Tbh, you are a nub. The hurricane sucks compared to the Sleipnir, which has more DPS and a bigger tank, also get HG crystals and faction/deadspace/officer fittings or you are a idiot.
If you can't fly a Sleipnir with HG crystals and ALL relevant skills to 5 (minimum), you shouldn't play EVE until you can. Don't blame me if you wasted your time training for the wrong ships.
Or maybe the thorax is a awesome cruiser, and has a 50m3 drone bay, so it can fit 5 EC-600s (seriously do fit them).
The two ships aren't really comparable.
BTW, the Prophecy is a awesome BC because its better than a Ibis.
It is really good written irony makes the other guys look like teenage girls
One look at Merin's posts and signature makes him look 12. It is allways fun how a simple question of opinion on fits boils over to a ****ing contest.
Well no. Inertial's comment was totally stupid because he is comparing tech 2 with tech 1 hulls.
Merin is not. He is comparing cheap with cheap. The Hurricane is like for likeness the same ship as the Thorax, with better everything. That's the point he is making and there is apsolute no advantage to using the Thorax, even against other cruisers tbh.
|
Duchess Starbuckington
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 12:02:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 07/01/2010 12:02:49
Originally by: Chloe Ordimus
Well no. Inertial's comment was totally stupid because he is comparing tech 2 with tech 1 hulls.
Merin is not. He is comparing cheap with cheap. The Hurricane is like for likeness the same ship as the Thorax, with better everything. That's the point he is making and there is apsolute no advantage to using the Thorax, even against other cruisers tbh.
It actually blows my mind that people can be so slow to get this argument.
Personally one thing I just don't understand is people trimarking up their Thoraxes. If they're that determined to fly a blaster using brick why not get a Brutix? Shield Brutix is around the same speed with better tank, better gank and slightly lower agility. Not to mention the insanely low cost of t1 battlecruisers last time I checked.
Edit: not denying of course the Hurricane is a vast improvement over both. Some people just can't stand crosstraining. _________________________________
|
Davina Braben
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 12:02:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Davina Braben on 07/01/2010 12:05:07 Merin is right tbh.
BCs are better VFM than Cruisers especially once you're T2 fitting and rigging. You get the cost of the hull back so you're paying for modules. You get a lot more out of a BC for a little more ISK.
AC boats are betterer than blaster boats (at least for fights where you're not starting @ 0) and shield-BCs are better than fat-plated cruisers (similar agility + more dakka).
|
David Devant
Gallente CTRL-Q
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 12:08:00 -
[40]
Love a good Merin fest. Merin, sweety, you are correct. Cane > Rax. However, what you and your autistic fanboys fail to recognize is that some of us play this game for the lulz not for you're dried out and depressing percentage points. Get some friends. Xx
|
|
Crellion
Art of War Cult of War
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 12:19:00 -
[41]
For solo work Cyclone is better than Cane anyway
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Hannibal Ord
Minmatar The Ore Pheonix
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 14:26:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Hannibal Ord on 07/01/2010 14:26:48
Originally by: David Devant Love a good Merin fest. Merin, sweety, you are correct. Cane > Rax. However, what you and your autistic fanboys fail to recognize is that some of us play this game for the lulz not for you're dried out and depressing percentage points. Get some friends. Xx
I play for lulz too. I'd still fly the Hurricane, rupture and or any other ship rather than that Butt dildo.
Only time I will fly a thorax is if you put lazors or Autocannons on it anyway. No amount of saying that Merin is correct but it doesn't matter will make him less correct, or the Thorax less ****.
|
kyrv
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 14:31:00 -
[43]
Thorax Argh good giblet cage is that many a scalleywag and scurvey dog tried to horswaggle that on the gold road. Yarr Broadside that jimmey and heave too the six pounders ye dabloons me mighty fine vessel. Argh.
|
Rhak Amharr
Minmatar Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 14:35:00 -
[44]
You are all forgetting the most important aspect of this discussion: Killing ship X in a Thorax gives more killboard points than killing it in a Hurricane. Duh.
|
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 14:36:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Personally one thing I just don't understand is people trimarking up their Thoraxes. If they're that determined to fly a blaster using brick why not get a Brutix?
Did you miss the part about catching people that would run from a BC? -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
Dors Venabily
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 17:39:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Davina Braben Edited by: Davina Braben on 07/01/2010 12:08:43
BCs are better VFM than Cruisers especially once you're T2 fitting and rigging. You get the cost of the hull back so you're paying for modules. You get a lot more out of a BC for a little more ISK.
Now that snippet I agree with and is a major point in removing insurance. Or at least reducing the coverage to 50 % but for that I get flamed alot.
|
Drek Grapper
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 18:12:00 -
[47]
How much ISK do you have in your wallet? 50Million ISK to buy, fit and insure a Hurricane....or 15Million odd ISK to buy, fit and insure a Rax?
Not everyone has 50Million ISK lying around in their wallet. I been there...
Note: Figures sucked out of my thumb...but i'm sure the point is made/understood. -- "If itĘs true that our species is alone in the universe, then IĘd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little" George Carlin |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 18:12:00 -
[48]
Merin's Gambit: "The question is irrelevant because the answer is always Hurricane."
Originally by: Akita T We don't hate people like you, we look at you with mostly pity and a hint of disgust balled up in a big wad of "notto disu shi'tto agen".
|
Serret Nevets
Mortis Angelus
|
Posted - 2010.01.07 19:54:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Serret Nevets on 07/01/2010 19:59:15
Originally by: Crellion For solo work Cyclone is better than Cane anyway
Come on Crellion, shhhhhhh. You're not suppose to tell anyone, otherwise my 16mil bc's might go up in price!!!!
ah crap, I think I said too much.
AND--
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Personally one thing I just don't understand is people trimarking up their Thoraxes. If they're that determined to fly a blaster using brick why not get a Brutix?
Did you miss the part about catching people that would run from a BC?
Ummm, who the hell would run from a solo brutix besides a solo thorax?
|
Hiroshima Jita
|
Posted - 2010.01.08 08:46:00 -
[50]
Cyclone is a active tank which does point to solo/small gang yes. And I enjoy flying them. Whether they're an outright superior solo boat changes from situation to situation though.
And yeah. Killing something with a thorax is worth more points than using a cane. Which is pretty nice when the next guy in your alliance is flying t2 and giving himself a heart attack cause you get more points killing a t1 cruiser in a cruiser than he does when he kills an inty in his inty.
|
|
Fillip
|
Posted - 2010.01.08 10:38:00 -
[51]
you are are idiots, while the hurricane is a better ship than the rax, youd be a fool not to be flying a phoon. Its cost effective and would win vs a hurricane, therefore instead of a rax you want to fly a phoon.
seriously, comparing somthing thats a different race and a different hull class is so incredably stupid is beond comprehension.
OF COURSE a cane will be better, however people with skills for a rax dont want to know a list of ships that are better, or they would have created a "whats better than a thorax thread".
serously these forums are totally ****ed these days for newbs wanting help, and comments like "ship X is better, even tho its a different skill set completly and more SP to get into then the ship you wanted info on".
merin you really should leave your 'expertise' to the threads where your babble is actually relivant rather than derailing innocent cruiser setup help threads.
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
|
Posted - 2010.01.08 10:59:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Fillip you are are idiots, while the hurricane is a better ship than the rax, youd be a fool not to be flying a phoon. Its cost effective and would win vs a hurricane, therefore instead of a rax you want to fly a phoon.
seriously, comparing somthing thats a different race and a different hull class is so incredably stupid is beond comprehension.
You know, it's amazing how many times people can miss the point and post the same stupid things over and over again, no matter how many times it is explained to them. Compared to the Typhoon is slower, less agile, more expensive, and has trouble dealing with smaller targets. While it is a good ship, it has a role that is completely different from the Hurricane's (or the Thorax's) and should not be compared to one.
The Hurricane, on the other hand, can do everything the Thorax can, and do it better. It's not just that the Hurricane would win in a 1v1, it's that the Hurricane simply makes a Thorax obsolete in all possible situations.
And don't give me this nonsense about poor little newbies with no skills. Even a low-skill Hurricane will completely outclass the Thorax, and the sooner they realize it and start training for ships that don't suck, the better. I see no reason to keep newbies flying bad ships just to save them a few days of training time to switch to a better one. -----------
|
Chloe Ordimus
|
Posted - 2010.01.08 11:40:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Fillip you are are idiots, while the hurricane is a better ship than the rax, youd be a fool not to be flying a phoon. Its cost effective and would win vs a hurricane, therefore instead of a rax you want to fly a phoon.
seriously, comparing somthing thats a different race and a different hull class is so incredably stupid is beond comprehension.
OF COURSE a cane will be better, however people with skills for a rax dont want to know a list of ships that are better, or they would have created a "whats better than a thorax thread".
serously these forums are totally ****ed these days for newbs wanting help, and comments like "ship X is better, even tho its a different skill set completly and more SP to get into then the ship you wanted info on".
merin you really should leave your 'expertise' to the threads where your babble is actually relivant rather than derailing innocent cruiser setup help threads.
Oh Epic Fail there!
|
Knobbing Everyone
|
Posted - 2010.01.08 14:12:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin And don't give me this nonsense about poor little newbies with no skills. Even a low-skill Hurricane will completely outclass the Thorax, and the sooner they realize it and start training for ships that don't suck, the better. I see no reason to keep newbies flying bad ships just to save them a few days of training time to switch to a better one.
As the OP, I probably should mention the char I will be using has 47mill SP, Amarr and Caladari cruiser V, Gallente cruiser IV, BC V, 14days to 425 II's (but have medium t2 rails and medium t2 laaazors) and Command Ships IV....the char even has Recon V...I would have a much much better chance using a Curse for pvp, but I don't want to...
I want to use the Thorax for 'wtf, you just shot me with a Thorax??' lols, else I would be using my plated and tri-marked Harbinger that I'm confident can take pretty much any Brutix / 'Cane setup and give it a good whipping!..
Cost isn't exactly an issue since I have a few billion isk...I want to use a Thorax for lols! After a few Thorax losses I want to try a Moa (got a nice 500dps setup), and a Ferox...yes a FEROX!!! Trust me, after 3yrs, most of it in 0.0 and the Sov / POS warfare, I want some fun...Thorax sounds fun, unconventional ships sounds fun! When I've lost enough of them, I'll go back to 0.0, enter a sniper BS or a Hac and blob warefare again...
|
Chloe Ordimus
|
Posted - 2010.01.08 14:30:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Knobbing Everyone
Originally by: Merin Ryskin And don't give me this nonsense about poor little newbies with no skills. Even a low-skill Hurricane will completely outclass the Thorax, and the sooner they realize it and start training for ships that don't suck, the better. I see no reason to keep newbies flying bad ships just to save them a few days of training time to switch to a better one.
As the OP, I probably should mention the char I will be using has 47mill SP, Amarr and Caladari cruiser V, Gallente cruiser IV, BC V, 14days to 425 II's (but have medium t2 rails and medium t2 laaazors) and Command Ships IV....the char even has Recon V...I would have a much much better chance using a Curse for pvp, but I don't want to...
I want to use the Thorax for 'wtf, you just shot me with a Thorax??' lols, else I would be using my plated and tri-marked Harbinger that I'm confident can take pretty much any Brutix / 'Cane setup and give it a good whipping!..
Cost isn't exactly an issue since I have a few billion isk...I want to use a Thorax for lols! After a few Thorax losses I want to try a Moa (got a nice 500dps setup), and a Ferox...yes a FEROX!!! Trust me, after 3yrs, most of it in 0.0 and the Sov / POS warfare, I want some fun...Thorax sounds fun, unconventional ships sounds fun! When I've lost enough of them, I'll go back to 0.0, enter a sniper BS or a Hac and blob warefare again...
In that case, use the dreaded Autocannon Ferox!
|
David Devant
Gallente CTRL-Q
|
Posted - 2010.01.08 14:41:00 -
[56]
To the OP. Join FW. Good way of increasing potential targets for ghetto pvp.
|
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
|
Posted - 2010.01.08 14:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
The Hurricane, on the other hand, can do everything the Thorax can, and do it better.
Only when it can field 5 EC-600 -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
LiNuXb0y
Amarr Output Industries
|
Posted - 2010.01.08 14:54:00 -
[58]
My personal favourite is:
[Thorax, 1600 & med guns] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Stasis Webifier II Warp Scrambler II
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Hammerhead II x5
569 dps 23.5k ehp with my skills
|
caboaddict
|
Posted - 2010.01.08 19:45:00 -
[59]
A different fit for the 1600 plate/Medium Blaster fit is:
1600 rolled tungsten DC II EANM II PDU (if that is the one that gives you more PG) MFS II
Scram Web 10mn MWD
5x Heavy Electrons w/ faction AM
3x trimarks
either 5 hammer II's or 5 warrior II's/ECM drones
|
Veebora
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.01.08 20:10:00 -
[60]
Originally by: grapez
Originally by: Professor Villinghopper
Originally by: Vibora BR
Thorax109 Hound59 Thrasher50 Blackbird45 Catalyst44 Rupture35 Hurricane24 Claw22 Brutix14 Cyclone5
Does anyone else find it funny that the ship killed the most is the Thorax?
Anyone else find it funny that this guy doesn't know how to read a KB stats page?
I do, pretty funny someone cant understand that this is the number kills while using the ship
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |