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Novocastrian
Gallente Children Of Darwin
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Posted - 2010.01.07 13:52:00 -
[1]
Hi there,
I've not had much trouble with can flippers until recently. I'm extremely inexperienced with PvP so I was looking for a relatively inexpensive ship and fitting that I could leave in the station for my combat trained main to jump in when my alt gets hassle.
What's the best sort of ship to be going for, is it best to stick to cruiser, I can fly BC too but they're pretty expensive and would be a bit hit if I lost it. Also fittings. I'll obviously need a warp scrambler and I suspect a webber too?
Oh and he fly's gallente ships.
Thanks --
"Lead, follow or get out of the way"
www.stri.co.nr |
Claptonius
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Posted - 2010.01.07 14:07:00 -
[2]
If your alt's can gets flipped your main will not have aggression rights against the can flipper so he would not be able to shoot the flipper unless your alt is in the same corporation your main is in. If your alt is in the same corp, then your entire corp has aggression against the flipper. I think this question should also be in a different forum.
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FireT
Gallente As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2010.01.07 16:19:00 -
[3]
Here is my progression of mining I had experienced and it did avoid can flippers:
Step 1) Use an industrial with a mining laser. Slow as tar but you can afk without can flippers. Boring but save since you can also install cargo expanders and shield boosters.
Step 2) Get a mining barge. Harvests more but you will have to pay attention when mining ore since it eats the roids much faster.
Step 3) Getting an Exhumer. Even better and quicker.
Now to reflect on can flipping. All that I have recommended is single mining. Can flipping obviously will occur if you mine into a can, so don't do it. IF you do mine into a can you automatically accept that risk of can flipping.
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Achura Morachu
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Posted - 2010.01.07 16:29:00 -
[4]
[Exequror, Almost Bait] Damage Control I Medium Armor Repairer I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I 10MN Afterburner I J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I Medium Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Medium Energy Neutralizer I Small Energy Neutralizer I Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Warrior II x5
Loads of assumptions, of course. First one is that you're flying Gallente. Next is that you're facing an at least semi-competent flipper who will run as soon as he's seeing a "real" ship on scanner (Vexor? Time to GTFO). Finally, I'm assuming one of the cookie-cutter can-flip fits: blaster-fit Incursus or Tristan; if he's in an Ishkur or cruiser, you'll probably die -- especially with this T1 fit.
Anyways: - Warp this thing into belt. Throw on the damage control while you're in warp. - Lock, scram, web, med neut, guns, drones. Small neut halfway through med neut cycle. - Align towards him, hit the AB if he tries to run. Shouldn't run for long, what with having no cap for his own AB. 20km point assures that even if he manages to run away, he'll do so slooowly, giving your drones times to do their thing. - Watch him explode. Gloat silently. Don't smacktalk.
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Tractus Vesica
Caldari Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2010.01.07 16:34:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Novocastrian Hi there,
I've not had much trouble with can flippers until recently. I'm extremely inexperienced with PvP so I was looking for a relatively inexpensive ship and fitting that I could leave in the station for my combat trained main to jump in when my alt gets hassle.
What's the best sort of ship to be going for, is it best to stick to cruiser, I can fly BC too but they're pretty expensive and would be a bit hit if I lost it. Also fittings. I'll obviously need a warp scrambler and I suspect a webber too?
Oh and he fly's gallente ships.
Thanks
Your Gallentean, A.K.A. the descendents of the French. I think its safe to say your best tactic would simply be to bend over. -------------------------------------------------------------- "Youtube, its like a pitri dish of stupid."
-Myself
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Novocastrian
Gallente Children Of Darwin
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Posted - 2010.01.07 16:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tractus Vesica
Your Gallentean, A.K.A. the descendents of the French. I think its safe to say your best tactic would simply be to bend over.
LOL!
--
"Lead, follow or get out of the way"
www.stri.co.nr |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente Federal Defense Operations
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Posted - 2010.01.07 17:02:00 -
[7]
Originally by: FireT Here is my progression of mining I had experienced and it did avoid can flippers:
Step 1) Use an industrial with a mining laser. Slow as tar but you can afk without can flippers. Boring but save since you can also install cargo expanders and shield boosters.
This is the worst suggestion possible. Sorry, but anyone with an Indy and a single miner going at rocks, needs to be shot. Screw Hulkageddon, we need to toast mining Indys.
Quote:
Step 2) Get a mining barge. Harvests more but you will have to pay attention when mining ore since it eats the roids much faster.
Step 3) Getting an Exhumer. Even better and quicker.
Good ideas... using Mining ships to mine.
However, the OP has already stated his own solution, in a roundabout way.
Your "combat trained" alt, can very easily learn to fly a simple Indy. You don't need an Ite V if you're not hauling that much that often. Make regular trips with an Ite III or IV. That's only a day of train up.
Then leave the Indy floating next to the miner, and only leave the rock in a Jet Can long enough to scoop. Leave 1 rock inside so the can doesn't pop.
The secret to avoiding Can Flipping is play with friends. Or at least use alts and play with yourself |
Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.01.07 17:41:00 -
[8]
If you know you are going to be harrassed, do the following.
1. Train up and/or get a pilgrim.
2. Drop a can from the pilgrim and let your hulk pilot stash the ores in it.
3. When he flips the can....Uncloak pilgrim and engage.
4. Profit?
If mechanics haven't changed this should still be doable. It's been years since I've messed with flippers.
Jovial
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SirDynty
Gallente Boiians
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Posted - 2010.01.07 17:42:00 -
[9]
Thorax with blasters,MWD antimmater charge,med drones,web scramble...you can even fit specific hardeners against him if you are fast enough:) start bumping him with your mining barge,in right moment warp in with thorax and warp out with barge,thorax is a beast
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Novocastrian
Gallente Children Of Darwin
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Posted - 2010.01.07 17:44:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Novocastrian on 07/01/2010 17:46:55
Originally by: Claptonius If your alt's can gets flipped your main will not have aggression rights against the can flipper so he would not be able to shoot the flipper unless your alt is in the same corporation your main is in. If your alt is in the same corp, then your entire corp has aggression against the flipper. I think this question should also be in a different forum.
Yeah my alt is in the same corp. Thanks
To everyone that's replied, thanks. --
"Lead, follow or get out of the way"
www.stri.co.nr |
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Lythandra Gloomwing
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Posted - 2010.01.07 19:17:00 -
[11]
GO take a gander at the mining guide he lays out a nice strat for dealing with flippers which I plan on trying sometime.
Basically it works best with an alt not in your corp. Fleet up with alt then drop a corp can next to him for filling cloak up your combat ships and wait for the dumb lazy flipper to do his thing. Since the alt isn't in the corp odds are the flipper will think it's just a solo newb and not notice that the can belongs to a corp that happens to have a few pilots in system. Then when they inevitably flip the can you gank them when they agress your corporation.
If they are particularly stupid they'll fire on the miner (who's not agressed) and get concodorked. Would be especially satisfying against the ones flying about in AFs.
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GavinCapacitor
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Posted - 2010.01.07 19:53:00 -
[12]
Edited by: GavinCapacitor on 07/01/2010 19:53:44
Originally by: Marcus Gideon Sorry, but anyone with an Indy and a single miner going at rocks, needs to be shot.
Thats... Civil..
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CCP Ildoge
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Posted - 2010.01.08 05:13:00 -
[13]
* moved from science and industry. - CCP Ildoge Ildoge Community Representative CCP Hf Contact us |
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Widshin
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Posted - 2010.01.08 06:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Achura Morachu Small neut halfway through med neut cycle.
Make that quarterway through med neut cycle
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Tulisin Dragonflame
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Posted - 2010.01.08 11:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Novocastrian Hi there,
I've not had much trouble with can flippers until recently. I'm extremely inexperienced with PvP so I was looking for a relatively inexpensive ship and fitting that I could leave in the station for my combat trained main to jump in when my alt gets hassle.
What's the best sort of ship to be going for, is it best to stick to cruiser, I can fly BC too but they're pretty expensive and would be a bit hit if I lost it. Also fittings. I'll obviously need a warp scrambler and I suspect a webber too?
Oh and he fly's gallente ships.
Thanks
This is just a recipe for him blowing up your "expensive" (battlecruisers are not expensive by most people's standards) ship. Griefers are in in primarily for the tears, secondarily for the offchance that you'll try fighting back and they'll get to blow up a shiny non-mining ship, with a chance at profit being a very distant third.
This is really the last thing you want to be doing, especially if you're considering flying ships you can't afford (a bad idea, even in hisec).
So, although I think the above poster was probably joking, his essential point was spot on. Your best defense against this sort of thing short of an organized ambush is to simply take the abuse and give no satisfaction back. If the canflipper can't get tears or aggression out of you, they're going to go find something more fun to do.
As an afterthought, you might want to consider partnering with an industrial. If you don't have ore sitting around in cans, there won't be any cans to flip.
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kyrv
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Posted - 2010.01.08 11:31:00 -
[16]
It just screams battlecruiser if your bord? just a little XP expenditure you can have either race quickly.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.08 11:35:00 -
[17]
It all depend on who you're dealing with, if you run into a newer player who has no clue on it all but is giving it a try then having a Vexor on standby is a great thing. Fit it with a scram, web, MWD, 1600 plate and small/med neutralisers and you should easily be able to take care of anyone who simply wasn't prepared.
However, if you run into someone who DOES know what he's doing and has backup in the form of other ships or corp members it's a different story and the best outcome you can hope for is a draw, meaning you still got to keep your ship. If you run into some scheming fukc who has way too much time, puts in lots of effort, enjoys the tactical cat and mouse game and has no issues with being as annoying as possible(like me), then you're probably better off not bothering at all.
Your best bet is to not use stationary jetcans and to not sit still in a belt, there's some tricks you can use to minimise the risk of can flippers but you'll need a second character that. Or you could join an active, non-zombie corp that has mining OPs and people who DO know what they are doing. I know it's a silly suggestion to tell people to have some teamwork in an MMO.
Until then either accept the occasional loss of ore to make up for the fact that jetcan mining is fast and takes no effort.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service |
Ogogov
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Posted - 2010.01.08 11:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame
Originally by: Novocastrian Hi there,
I've not had much trouble with can flippers until recently. I'm extremely inexperienced with PvP so I was looking for a relatively inexpensive ship and fitting that I could leave in the station for my combat trained main to jump in when my alt gets hassle.
What's the best sort of ship to be going for, is it best to stick to cruiser, I can fly BC too but they're pretty expensive and would be a bit hit if I lost it. Also fittings. I'll obviously need a warp scrambler and I suspect a webber too?
Oh and he fly's gallente ships.
Thanks
This is just a recipe for him blowing up your "expensive" (battlecruisers are not expensive by most people's standards) ship. Griefers are in in primarily for the tears, secondarily for the offchance that you'll try fighting back and they'll get to blow up a shiny non-mining ship, with a chance at profit being a very distant third.
This is really the last thing you want to be doing, especially if you're considering flying ships you can't afford (a bad idea, even in hisec).
So, although I think the above poster was probably joking, his essential point was spot on. Your best defense against this sort of thing short of an organized ambush is to simply take the abuse and give no satisfaction back. If the canflipper can't get tears or aggression out of you, they're going to go find something more fun to do.
As an afterthought, you might want to consider partnering with an industrial. If you don't have ore sitting around in cans, there won't be any cans to flip.
This. Given most of the alterations to CONCORD behavior and the lack of ability to fight back with gangs due to lack of an agression flag in gangs, unless you brought a fully PvP fit ship along to run a mission/mine there's absolutely nothing you can do other than just not leave any cans laying around.
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Konsor Hinnso
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Posted - 2010.01.12 14:55:00 -
[19]
Best way to stop can flippers is to make sure there are no cans. Simples!
Mine directly into an Orca. Up to ten concurrent users up to 5km away. The Orca pilot simply moves the ore from the corp hanagars until the rest of the ship is full.
Other benefits such as bonuses are obvious
Make sure each ship is mining a different ore so reducing wasted time.
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Agent Known
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Posted - 2010.01.12 15:54:00 -
[20]
A little friendly RR from an alt could go a long way with a battle hulk On another note, I also have an annoying sig.
inaftertimeflux |
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tartan pixie
Minmatar Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2010.01.12 16:57:00 -
[21]
Whenever i mine it's always in to a jet can in busy systems, flippers are likely to be the most fun part of the process, especially if they give away T2 loot and salvage
This is a variation on my tactics:
1) Train your combat toon to use a basic hauler 2) Train your mining toon to use a blackbird
Neither of these ships take long to train for and will always be useful.
Make a safe spot close to the belt where you will be mining.
When your can is flipped most of the ore should be in your hauler so you won't loose much, dock up and swap ships, undock the combat ship first and check the flipper's not at the station (you don't want him to know your alt's in a blackbird).
Originally by:
Important note 1: Do not take the can back immediately, this will give you a GCC and allow his entire corp to fire on you. Only do this once you have some experience, getting info on the flippers corp and setting standings towards them will mark all his corp mates in local.
Important note2: The can flipper can not fire on you till you fire on him, if he thinks he's in for a fair fight then you can lead him all over the system by simply appearing on grid and warping to an obvious belt/ planet. A fun mini game in itself if you enjoy flipper tears.
Once you've got both ships undocked warp them to your safe spot, align the blackbird towards the belt before warping to the belt in your combat toon. Tackle the flipper and warp the blackbird in, jam the little ballsack and laugh as he claims fight was unfair and you cheated.
Once you've done this a few times you'll find yourself using the BB less or using it only to fight multiple opponents. Most of the pvp you get with this technique is consensual and imo a very good way to learn some pvp basics.
BTW I know using an ECM alt is a lame tactic but it's also the single most annoying thing that can happen to a can flipper and his neutral RR alt .
sig---------------------------------------------
No your honour my defence is that the pixies did it in the middle of the night. Prove me wrong. |
tartan pixie
Minmatar Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2010.01.12 18:06:00 -
[22]
In terms of ship fittings I don't fly gallente so can only speak in terms of know but here's a rough guide to what a can baiter keeps in their hanger:
T1 frigate dogfighter: This is for 1vs1 against other T1 frigates, I use a rifter so am not sure how to fit a tristan.
T1 frigate tank: This is for baiting ships in to fights where you're going to bring the BB alt in, merlin is my preference. Fit for maximum buffer and tackle not DPS, once your target is jammed use the AML's on the BB to up the DPS to the point where people will break.
T1 cruiser anti frigate: This is when you simply want to destroy a T1 or T2 frigate. Known frigate killers like the caracal and vexor are generally bad because frigs will run away as soon as they see you and in the case of the vexor it lacks the mids for a dual web.
Currently i'm using a bellicose cos it's about as expected as the spanish inquisition but have eft'd up this celestis as a possible gallente variant:
[Celestis, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
1MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Scrambler II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Large Shield Extender II
150mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 150mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S 150mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Warrior II x5
Key features: -> WTFs a celestis? -> Dual web -> Neut -> Better tank n gank than an AF -> Might be able to use medium guns thanks to the dual web but i don't use medium hybrids so can't say, would be cautious of blasters with their low range against smaller ships.
I also keep a drake in the hanger for dealing with people who come back in a bigger ship once I've killed their can flipping ship.
The BB alt looks like this:
[Blackbird, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Signal Distortion Amplifier II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I 'Umbra' I White Noise ECM BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM 'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I Large Shield Extender II
Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Piranha Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Piranha Light Missile Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Piranha Light Missile [empty high slot]
Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I Medium Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Vary fittings to taste, drop a meta level if the best named jammers are a bit pricey for you.
sig---------------------------------------------
No your honour my defence is that the pixies did it in the middle of the night. Prove me wrong. |
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