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amatormundi
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.01.08 04:30:00 -
[1]
Which Rifter is the best for both exploration and PvP? I want to do some exploring and would like to blast the crap out of whoever attacks me...which fitting is the best for accomplishing both these things? -------------------------------------------------- Seeking knowledge throughout the galaxy |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Undivided
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Posted - 2010.01.08 04:56:00 -
[2]
Assuming you have a covert ops ship to actually scan out the plexes. In an AF I'm assuming you're doing lowsec profession sites (hacking/archaeology/salvaging). Thus you'll either be sacrificing a midslot, or a midslot and a hislot.
the whole idea of simply flying along and trying to shoot anyone who attacks you is very flawed: you'll have NPC aggro, you'll be in a ship at least partially refit for exploration, and he'll know what you're in and thus he'll likely only attack if he knows he can win. It's much better to simply watch local and directional scan (overview settings off so you can see probes) and escape/evade those who would pewpew you.
If you really do want a hybrid PVP/exploration boat, jaguar. Wolf only has two midslots...you'll need a propulsion mod (AB/MWD) to do anything and a warp disruptor/scrambler to kill anything, so you're left with the Jaguar.
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Dyphorus
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Posted - 2010.01.08 05:27:00 -
[3]
AFs are generally to be avoided for PvP. Consider this....
A well fitted T1 cruiser has more tank and gank than most assault frigates. After insurance you can loose 3-5, depending on the fit, cruisers for the price of one well fitted AF.
They simply don't offer enough for the price. That aside, other than the the Jag, Ishkur and possibly Enyo (good for frig ganks) most of the AFs are fairly weak PvP boats anyway.
Electronic assault frigates suffer from the same issue.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Undivided
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Posted - 2010.01.08 06:43:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dyphorus AFs are generally to be avoided for PvP. Consider this....
A well fitted T1 cruiser has more tank and gank than most assault frigates. After insurance you can loose 3-5, depending on the fit, cruisers for the price of one well fitted AF.
They simply don't offer enough for the price. That aside, other than the the Jag, Ishkur and possibly Enyo (good for frig ganks) most of the AFs are fairly weak PvP boats anyway.
Electronic assault frigates suffer from the same issue.
And here we see an EFT warrior in his natural habitat.
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Intigo
Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.08 07:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Originally by: Dyphorus AFs are generally to be avoided for PvP. Consider this....
A well fitted T1 cruiser has more tank and gank than most assault frigates. After insurance you can loose 3-5, depending on the fit, cruisers for the price of one well fitted AF.
They simply don't offer enough for the price. That aside, other than the the Jag, Ishkur and possibly Enyo (good for frig ganks) most of the AFs are fairly weak PvP boats anyway.
Electronic assault frigates suffer from the same issue.
And here we see an EFT warrior in his natural habitat.
It's somewhat true though. AFs are easily killed by competent PvP'ers and the things they can actually kill will just stay out of their way. ___________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Undivided
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Posted - 2010.01.08 08:04:00 -
[6]
Quote: It's somewhat true though. AFs are easily killed by competent PvP'ers and the things they can actually kill will just stay out of their way.
Whether they're easily killed or not depends entirely on the matchup and the situation.
Not much can stay out of the way of an AF. It's a frigate-class ship; not much aside from interceptors can really evade them.
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Dyphorus
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Posted - 2010.01.08 15:54:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dyphorus on 08/01/2010 15:57:03 Edited by: Dyphorus on 08/01/2010 15:55:21
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: It's somewhat true though. AFs are easily killed by competent PvP'ers and the things they can actually kill will just stay out of their way.
Whether they're easily killed or not depends entirely on the matchup and the situation.
Not much can stay out of the way of an AF. It's a frigate-class ship; not much aside from interceptors can really evade them.
Edit: I will give you AFs are fun to fly, but they are near the last ship I would recommend to someone learning to PvP as there are many better choices that are easier on the wallet.
Not much needs to stay out of they way of an AF. Neary anything save a frig or dessy can either kill it or survive it long enough to get away. You want to fly around trying to find solo frigs to pop all night, be my guest. Add to that the fact that many AFs fit an AB rather than MWD, as they tend to fight in scram range, and the number of ships that can out maneuver you grows quite a bit.
That said, I'm not saying AFs are useless, simply that you don't really get what you pay for. Call me an EFT warrior if you like, but I'll generally ask pilots who bring an AF to a fleet to go get a cruiser, and I know many other FCs who do the same. It's nice to have your DPS run a bit more than the 8-10 ehp most AFs bring to the table.
In nearly any case a cruiser, or even BC which also generally costs less than an AF after insurance, has a lot more to offer for the cost.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=7579533 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=7301491
You think either of these BCs that popped your Wolf solo were worth the 40 mil you lost after insurance is figured in? |
Zzander Solus
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Posted - 2010.01.08 16:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dyphorus AFs are generally to be avoided for PvP. Consider this....
A well fitted T1 cruiser has more tank and gank than most assault frigates. After insurance you can loose 3-5, depending on the fit, cruisers for the price of one well fitted AF.
They simply don't offer enough for the price. That aside, other than the the Jag, Ishkur and possibly Enyo (good for frig ganks) most of the AFs are fairly weak PvP boats anyway.
Electronic assault frigates suffer from the same issue.
I disagree. Assault frigs fill a particular niche quite well in gang pvp ops. They can be primary or secondary tacklers (with interceptors) if fitted with warp jammers and/or webbers. They are also efficient drone killers since they are small, agile, fast, and have good firepower and tank. A good squad of AF pilots will often have tracking disruptors and target painters for firepower support to their mates in heavy dps ships as well. Read the history of Goonswarm sometime. They conquered a lot of territory with t1 and t2 frigs.
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.01.08 18:15:00 -
[9]
The Jag is a great boat. I'd fly it any day over the Wolf, although the Wolf is fun too.
The Jag can have a respectable shield buffer tank, can easily top 1200m/s with just an AB and can be a fairly forgiving boat for a new AF pilot.
Just choose your targets carefully.
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Dyphorus
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Posted - 2010.01.09 06:51:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zzander Solus
I disagree. Assault frigs fill a particular niche quite well in gang pvp ops. They can be primary or secondary tacklers (with interceptors) if fitted with warp jammers and/or webbers. They are also efficient drone killers since they are small, agile, fast, and have good firepower and tank. A good squad of AF pilots will often have tracking disruptors and target painters for firepower support to their mates in heavy dps ships as well. Read the history of Goonswarm sometime. They conquered a lot of territory with t1 and t2 frigs.
I'm not saying AFs are bad ships. I'm not saying they cannot be used effectively. My point, again, is that there is little they can do that a can't be done, and often done better, with a more cost effective ship.
AFs need a boost, even the devs know it... see the AB buff they were looking into before Dom. The ship class has potential, but really isn't worth the investment in it's current state. |
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Final Agony
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Posted - 2010.01.09 17:36:00 -
[11]
I did lots and lots of pvp in an Ishkur (and an Enyo to a lesser extent) when I was first getting into pvp and didn't have the skills to fly much bigger than a frig hull.
Ishkur, Jag, Harpy are the best ones in my opinion. They can be fit effectively with fast, long-range fits and this gives them an instant advantage over an AB AF, they can engage the same kind of targets as more conventionally fit AFs, and unlike an AB AF they actually have a chance of disengaging and getting out if things are going poorly.
The main reason to fly an AF over a cruiser is agility - you can get an AF through most gate camps. You can't get a cruiser through any gate camp unless the campers are awful and have no idea what tackle is. AFs are also quite possibly the best tacklers inside of mission sites as they're sturdy enough to survive until the rest of the gang gets there, and they're good for getting people to engage that won't go after a cruiser.
I have been less than impressed with their performance in wolfpack gangs. A DPS 'ceptor can do almost as much DPS and is much, much faster (and speed is the name of the game is such gangs), and a stealth bomber can put out much more DPS on larger targets from well out of range for effective return fire. An AF does have a vastly superior tank to either ship but wolfpack gangs don't stop and slug it - it's all about the fast ganks and evading the enemy fleet while you do it. So the superior tanking abilities of AFs never really come into play.
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thetorsoboy
Minmatar Universal Defense Contrators Dragoon Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.09 19:32:00 -
[12]
I would recommend just a T1 Rifter. They're really cheap and do a lot more than people realize. You can replace them really easily, losing a AF isn't a good thing. -- My Blog: http://moobs.avempire.net/ |
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