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Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
51
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Posted - 2012.06.24 09:38:00 -
[91] - Quote
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:Dave stark wrote:Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:What happened, no matter how many goons tell you they were taking ISK out of the game, don't let it make you any less angry.
If they had been adding ISK to the game it would have off set the massive amounts they acquired, however they took trillions out of the Market and then helped take a ton of ISK and move it to their side.
Taking ISK out of the market just makes it better for them, so the money they hog will be worth even more. less angry about what? them understanding the new FW mechanics better than you? What I'm angry about is that a mechanic like this is able to ruin the fun for tons of other people. You can't ruin the fun for everyone but you and justify it by saying "THE SANDBOX MAN!".
of course you can, that's exactly what people say when you ruin a 2 month old character's day by popping the drake he probably hasn't insured and can't afford to replace.
also, how many people's game has been ruined? if goons hadn't have said it happened i wouldn't have even noticed. what effect has it had on you? i'll wager it hasn't touched you in the slightest.
stop being so bitter and jealous. |
Alexzandvar Douglass
NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING En Garde
28
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Posted - 2012.06.24 09:50:00 -
[92] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:Dave stark wrote:Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:What happened, no matter how many goons tell you they were taking ISK out of the game, don't let it make you any less angry.
If they had been adding ISK to the game it would have off set the massive amounts they acquired, however they took trillions out of the Market and then helped take a ton of ISK and move it to their side.
Taking ISK out of the market just makes it better for them, so the money they hog will be worth even more. less angry about what? them understanding the new FW mechanics better than you? What I'm angry about is that a mechanic like this is able to ruin the fun for tons of other people. You can't ruin the fun for everyone but you and justify it by saying "THE SANDBOX MAN!". of course you can, that's exactly what people say when you ruin a 2 month old character's day by popping the drake he probably hasn't insured and can't afford to replace. also, how many people's game has been ruined? if goons hadn't have said it happened i wouldn't have even noticed. what effect has it had on you? i'll wager it hasn't touched you in the slightest. stop being so bitter and jealous.
I'm not bitter, I am happy being a Ice Miner/Ratter and I enjoy the nice profits I get during massive cap wars. I just don't see the point in why Goons did this, regardless of your stance on the issue they knew they would get there Wallets zeroed out.
What did they gain by doing this? Nothing except empty wallets, which is the funniest part. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
51
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 09:59:00 -
[93] - Quote
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:Dave stark wrote:Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:Dave stark wrote:Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:What happened, no matter how many goons tell you they were taking ISK out of the game, don't let it make you any less angry.
If they had been adding ISK to the game it would have off set the massive amounts they acquired, however they took trillions out of the Market and then helped take a ton of ISK and move it to their side.
Taking ISK out of the market just makes it better for them, so the money they hog will be worth even more. less angry about what? them understanding the new FW mechanics better than you? What I'm angry about is that a mechanic like this is able to ruin the fun for tons of other people. You can't ruin the fun for everyone but you and justify it by saying "THE SANDBOX MAN!". of course you can, that's exactly what people say when you ruin a 2 month old character's day by popping the drake he probably hasn't insured and can't afford to replace. also, how many people's game has been ruined? if goons hadn't have said it happened i wouldn't have even noticed. what effect has it had on you? i'll wager it hasn't touched you in the slightest. stop being so bitter and jealous. I'm not bitter, I am happy being a Ice Miner/Ratter and I enjoy the nice profits I get during massive cap wars. I just don't see the point in why Goons did this, regardless of your stance on the issue they knew they would get there Wallets zeroed out. What did they gain by doing this? Nothing except empty wallets, which is the funniest part.
nice to see you've read what's going on. the wallets and assets are a temporary thing at the moment. on top of that; it was done to prevent a crash in the markets, not as a punishment towards the players.
also by the lack of comment on how it's effected you, it hasn't. hence your statement about ruining the game for everyone clearly doesn't stand up. in fact, it didn't stand up once i pointed out it didn't even affect me. |
Lord Zim
919
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Posted - 2012.06.24 11:54:00 -
[94] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:Gaming Exploit: any action which deliberately abuses a gaming mechanic in an way not intended by the developer for an advantage over other players. Frankly, it was obvious that this was not the intended use of this mechanic.. Instead of immediately reporting the bug or problem they took the "bob" approach and exploited it. How does this situation compare to, say, insurance frauding, buying and refining PA, or the whole PI debacle? |
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
122
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Posted - 2012.06.24 12:00:00 -
[95] - Quote
Xython wrote:Beekeeper Bob wrote:Exploit is Exploit....No matter how you color it But i doubt anything serious will happen, CCP loves the Goonies too much.... Please explain to me how using a poorly but intentionally designed game mechanic to it's breaking point is an Exploit. Go ahead, I'll wait. If your answer is logically equivalent to "because Goons" we reserve the right to laugh at you.
Last time I checked knowingly using a faulty game mechanic to gain an advantage, without bug reporting it is an explot. Cover it in whatever shroud of shite you want. End of the day you spotted a faulty game mechanic, never reported it.
When is CCP going to realise theres still rules in a sandbox and if kids keep kicking over every ones sandcastle eventually a guardian has to step in and remove said kid and punish him.
Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
Lord Zim
919
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Posted - 2012.06.24 12:48:00 -
[96] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:Last time I checked knowingly using a faulty game mechanic to gain an advantage, without bug reporting it is an explot. Like insurance fraud, the whole PI and PA debacle, tracking titans and the like, of which nobody I've heard about have been even remotely punished? |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
331
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:06:00 -
[97] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Gibbo3771 wrote:Last time I checked knowingly using a faulty game mechanic to gain an advantage, without bug reporting it is an explot. Like insurance fraud, the whole PI and PA debacle, tracking titans and the like, of which nobody I've heard about have been even remotely punished? Yes all very good past road signs of what NOT to do. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Lord Zim
926
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:07:00 -
[98] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Gibbo3771 wrote:Last time I checked knowingly using a faulty game mechanic to gain an advantage, without bug reporting it is an explot. Like insurance fraud, the whole PI and PA debacle, tracking titans and the like, of which nobody I've heard about have been even remotely punished? Yes all very good past road signs of what NOT to do. So when are the people who did that going to get their punishment, then? |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
165
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:09:00 -
[99] - Quote
So do we continue the 4x4 thread here now that its locked? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
331
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 14:10:00 -
[100] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Gibbo3771 wrote:Last time I checked knowingly using a faulty game mechanic to gain an advantage, without bug reporting it is an explot. Like insurance fraud, the whole PI and PA debacle, tracking titans and the like, of which nobody I've heard about have been even remotely punished? Yes all very good past road signs of what NOT to do. So when are the people who did that going to get their punishment, then? The people who did that were smaller offenders and didn't smear CCP's face in it. Which is worse than the POS guys ever did. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
331
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:11:00 -
[101] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:So do we continue the 4x4 thread here now that its locked? Shhh mustn't talk about moderation. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
165
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:11:00 -
[102] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Gibbo3771 wrote:Last time I checked knowingly using a faulty game mechanic to gain an advantage, without bug reporting it is an explot. Like insurance fraud, the whole PI and PA debacle, tracking titans and the like, of which nobody I've heard about have been even remotely punished? Yes all very good past road signs of what NOT to do. So when are the people who did that going to get their punishment, then? The people who did that were smaller offenders and didn't smear CCP's face in it. The LP scam is worse than the POS guys ever did.
Guess CCP got tired of being taken advantage of? http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
331
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 14:15:00 -
[103] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Guess CCP got tired of being taken advantage of?
Not real good for CCP's public face. They get accused of supporting a large alliance over the War dec thing and now a week later members of the same alliance are rubbing there face in it.
They really didn't need this one now. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Mishraile Viliana
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:21:00 -
[104] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Gibbo3771 wrote:Last time I checked knowingly using a faulty game mechanic to gain an advantage, without bug reporting it is an explot. Like insurance fraud, the whole PI and PA debacle, tracking titans and the like, of which nobody I've heard about have been even remotely punished?
Main difference as far as I can see is that for those CCP applied a patch and they were no longer possible, with the current issue there was a patch to counter the ridiculous amounts of LP that was being generated by this scheme and goons went out of their way to figure out how they could continue. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
51
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:26:00 -
[105] - Quote
Mishraile Viliana wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Gibbo3771 wrote:Last time I checked knowingly using a faulty game mechanic to gain an advantage, without bug reporting it is an explot. Like insurance fraud, the whole PI and PA debacle, tracking titans and the like, of which nobody I've heard about have been even remotely punished? Main difference as far as I can see is that for those CCP applied a patch and they were no longer possible, with the current issue there was a patch to counter the ridiculous amounts of LP that was being generated by this scheme and goons went out of their way to figure out how they could continue.
because if they could continue, ccp needed to be notified that they failed. right? |
qDoctor Strangelove
Beware of the Red Fox
26
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:39:00 -
[106] - Quote
Xhaiden Ora wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:How is one meant to determine whether a mechanic is intended or not?
I think its pretty damn obvious this was not CCP's intention. Delen Ormand wrote:Wait, didn't the bankers make a shitload of money from fraud, then get bailed out with a shitload more money taken from the taxpayer and never really suffer any legal consequences for it? Essentially, yes. Following the op's logic you should just pat them on the back and tell em "Good game guys!". I mean, they were just using the game mechanics, right? -.-
Other exploits that are not CCP's intention : - speed tanking FW missions in unarmed frigates. - afk mining ice 23/7 - extreeme blobs of supercarriers killing everything - titans tracking frigates and cruisers. - no industry in null sec
Some of these have been fixed, but, never did they punish the once that used these superior game mechanics |
Indo Nira
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
6
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:43:00 -
[107] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:Gaming Exploit: any action which deliberately abuses a gaming mechanic in an way not intended by the developer for an advantage over other players. Frankly, it was obvious that this was not the intended use of this mechanic.. Instead of immediately reporting the bug or problem they took the "bob" approach and exploited it. How does this situation compare to, say, insurance frauding, buying and refining PA, or the whole PI debacle?
how about you open your own thread about this and take this discussion there. ok? you might get your answers there |
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
122
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 14:44:00 -
[108] - Quote
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:Xhaiden Ora wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:How is one meant to determine whether a mechanic is intended or not?
I think its pretty damn obvious this was not CCP's intention. Delen Ormand wrote:Wait, didn't the bankers make a shitload of money from fraud, then get bailed out with a shitload more money taken from the taxpayer and never really suffer any legal consequences for it? Essentially, yes. Following the op's logic you should just pat them on the back and tell em "Good game guys!". I mean, they were just using the game mechanics, right? -.- Other exploits that are not CCP's intention : - speed tanking FW missions in unarmed frigates. - afk mining ice 23/7 - extreeme blobs of supercarriers killing everything - titans tracking frigates and cruisers. - no industry in null sec Some of these have been fixed, but, never did they punish the once that used these superior game mechanics
-speed tanking a site is within game mechanics, all the techniques are there and have been used in pve/pvp for years -afk mining is like using autopilot, lets remove autopilot then -actually, now people have a bunch of useless expensive ships -same as above -how is that an exploit
The punishment with the above comes with the fixes you listed....
Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
Mishraile Viliana
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:51:00 -
[109] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:because if they could continue, ccp needed to be notified that they failed. right?
The scale it was done after the initial adjustment was well beyond anything that could be considered for notification purposes. That might have worked if they limited to a few billion instead of trillions. |
Lord Zim
926
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 14:57:00 -
[110] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:The people who did that were smaller offenders and didn't smear CCP's face in it. The LP scam is worse than the POS guys ever did. The insurance fraud helped depress mineral prices for years though, as did the drone regions through gunmining. PA also helped make sure nocx never rose much above 900. These three things have probably had more of an effect on the economy as a whole (and as a result the profitability of the miners as a profession) than anything else we've talked about so far. |
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2509
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:58:00 -
[111] - Quote
This argument is inevitably partisan. If you like goons (or are a goon) it seems to be making excuses is the order of the day, if you don't like the goons (or do like the idea that CCP provide some oversight for their game) then a certain degree of schadenfreude seems to be the doctor's orders. At this point though the discussion is getting boring. The game mechanics involved were clearly twisted in ways CCP don't approve of, and their developer on the spot has already stated they would be in their rights to punish on breach of the rules.
For my part, I think its creative abuse for sure. The market manipulation/exploit was cunning. I don't really like the lp-duping/double-counting thing though (that was obviously broken as all hell) - and the admission of keyboard macro abuse during the cash out is distasteful. But yeah, CCP is in a bind here.
If they punish the goons appropriately the goonswarm is going to go mental. Threadnaughts and summer of tears etc. Threats of negative PR -mass unsubs - and all that, hell goons might even show up and shoot the jita monument (once the wardec 1.1 change strips them of all unwanted opposition in hisec).
If they don't punish appropriately (returning the loots, letting off the perpetrators with the lightest of slaps) then everyone else will be thinking that goons are treated with kid gloves and let off for things that other players would be ban-hammered mercilessly for.
Goons are already the CCP poster children for emergent gameplay (ie griefing hisec) and lauded in the gaming press and development conferences by CCP officials - and if they don't get an appropriate punishment for an exploit on this truly staggering scale then :shrug: I guess a lot of players may be considering their subscriptions anyway, Eve as a sandbox economic simulation becomes a lot less attracive for many when its clear that the largest alliance in the space has already rigged the game beyond any significant chance they will ever lose their position of absolute dominance.
So this is probably the "great war" we've all been missing the last few years, and its not a clash of spaceships in 0.0, its not propaganda and plots laid at BBQ's in 2006, its not about the CSM and stacking the player council and its not about G19 macro's hammering out LP offer accepts for 28 hours straight,
Its pretty much a war for the soul of Eve Online and at the end of it we'll know whether its truly CCP the developer or Goons the the something awful forums mega-alliance, that calls the shots in this game universe. I think its probably the first time in the history of massively multiplayer online gaming that there has been a war of this scale and significance - and once again Eve Online is the forerunner of some truly emergent gameplay on levels of metagaming that would make other games crawl up in a corner and cry themselves to sleep.
Still lets all keep watching. After all, this time next year the goon economic cabal might be dictating terms to the president of Iceland!
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Ghost Xray
Hedion University Amarr Empire
75
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 15:06:00 -
[112] - Quote
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
Other exploits that are not CCP's intention : - speed tanking FW missions in unarmed frigates. - afk mining ice 23/7 - extreeme blobs of supercarriers killing everything - titans tracking frigates and cruisers. - no industry in null sec
Some of these have been fixed, but, never did they punish the once that used these superior game mechanics
Hm.. how good of a game would EvE be if they did punish/ban all people doing these things? |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
1053
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 15:08:00 -
[113] - Quote
Almost everything Goons do is - self-avowedly, no less - an attempt to show people that all actions they take have consequences, and not neccessarily ones they'll like, either.
I'm amused that Goons are reacting so negatively to the undesirable consequences that actions they took precipitated. Mane 614
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
331
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 15:08:00 -
[114] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:The people who did that were smaller offenders and didn't smear CCP's face in it. The LP scam is worse than the POS guys ever did. The insurance fraud helped depress mineral prices for years though, as did the drone regions through gunmining. PA also helped make sure nocx never rose much above 900. These three things have probably had more of an effect on the economy as a whole (and as a result the profitability of the miners as a profession) than anything else we've talked about so far. Possibly but the people involved didn't go out of there way to make CCP look incompetent. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Malacath Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 15:11:00 -
[115] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: This argument is inevitably partisan. If you like goons (or are a goon) it seems to be making excuses is the order of the day, if you don't like the goons (or do like the idea that CCP provide some oversight for their game) then a certain degree of schadenfreude seems to be the doctor's orders. At this point though the discussion is getting boring. The game mechanics involved were clearly twisted in ways CCP don't approve of, and their developer on the spot has already stated they would be in their rights to punish on breach of the rules.
For my part, I think its creative abuse for sure. The market manipulation/exploit was cunning. I don't really like the lp-duping/double-counting thing though (that was obviously broken as all hell) - and the admission of keyboard macro abuse during the cash out is distasteful. But yeah, CCP is in a bind here.
If they punish the goons appropriately the goonswarm is going to go mental. Threadnaughts and summer of tears etc. Threats of negative PR -mass unsubs - and all that, hell goons might even show up and shoot the jita monument (once the wardec 1.1 change strips them of all unwanted opposition in hisec).
If they don't punish appropriately (returning the loots, letting off the perpetrators with the lightest of slaps) then everyone else will be thinking that goons are treated with kid gloves and let off for things that other players would be ban-hammered mercilessly for.
Goons are already the CCP poster children for emergent gameplay (ie griefing hisec) and lauded in the gaming press and development conferences by CCP officials - and if they don't get an appropriate punishment for an exploit on this truly staggering scale then :shrug: I guess a lot of players may be considering their subscriptions anyway, Eve as a sandbox economic simulation becomes a lot less attracive for many when its clear that the largest alliance in the space has already rigged the game beyond any significant chance they will ever lose their position of absolute dominance.
So this is probably the "great war" we've all been missing the last few years, and its not a clash of spaceships in 0.0, its not propaganda and plots laid at BBQ's in 2006, its not about the CSM and stacking the player council and its not about G19 macro's hammering out LP offer accepts for 28 hours straight,
Its pretty much a war for the soul of Eve Online and at the end of it we'll know whether its truly CCP the developer or Goons the the something awful forums mega-alliance, that calls the shots in this game universe. I think its probably the first time in the history of massively multiplayer online gaming that there has been a war of this scale and significance - and once again Eve Online is the forerunner of some truly emergent gameplay on levels of metagaming that would make other games crawl up in a corner and cry themselves to sleep.
Still lets all keep watching. After all, this time next year the goon economic cabal might be dictating terms to the president of Iceland!
CCP were told during testing that something like this could happen & they blatantly ignored everyone. In doing this, they condoned the action wether they intended to or not.
In other news, how's business?
Before I forget.... What hair bleach do you use?
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Wisdom Divine
State Protectorate Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 15:13:00 -
[116] - Quote
This argument is not partisan.
The way CCP is handling this, it seems the scale of the operation had precedence over the legality of the operation.
A true sandbox can only be concerned about legality, not scale. |
baltec1
1537
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 15:14:00 -
[117] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:The people who did that were smaller offenders and didn't smear CCP's face in it. The LP scam is worse than the POS guys ever did. The insurance fraud helped depress mineral prices for years though, as did the drone regions through gunmining. PA also helped make sure nocx never rose much above 900. These three things have probably had more of an effect on the economy as a whole (and as a result the profitability of the miners as a profession) than anything else we've talked about so far. Possibly but the people involved didn't go out of there way to make CCP look incompetent.
They did for years with reprocessing shuttles. |
Lord Zim
926
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 15:18:00 -
[118] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:keyboard macro abuse Last I checked, G15/G19 were on the allowed list, as long as the user was still at the keyboard. Are you trying to start a rumor they weren't at the keyboard?
Jade Constantine wrote:hell goons might even show up and shoot the jita monument (once the wardec 1.1 change strips them of all unwanted opposition in hisec). So uh, your few "friends" would try to do anything if we brought down, say, a burn jita-level fleet?
I'd bet on them running away yelping like a kicked dog.
Jade Constantine wrote:If they don't punish appropriately (returning the loots, letting off the perpetrators with the lightest of slaps) then everyone else will be thinking that goons are treated with kid gloves and let off for things that other players would be ban-hammered mercilessly for. You mean treat this case like they did the insurance fraud, the anoms, PI, PA, gunmining in drone regions, neut logis etc? Yes, that would be heavily goon-friendly and totally in line with their reaction to other, similar incidents.
Jade Constantine wrote:Eve as a sandbox economic simulation becomes a lot less attracive for many when its clear that the largest alliance in the space has already rigged the game beyond any significant chance they will ever lose their position of absolute dominance. This sounds very much like a rumor. You wouldn't be trying to start a rumor, would you?
Jade Constantine wrote:Its pretty much a war for the soul of Eve Online and at the end of it we'll know whether its truly CCP the developer or Goons the the something awful forums mega-alliance, that calls the shots in this game universe. As does this. |
Lord Zim
926
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 15:22:00 -
[119] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:The people who did that were smaller offenders and didn't smear CCP's face in it. The LP scam is worse than the POS guys ever did. The insurance fraud helped depress mineral prices for years though, as did the drone regions through gunmining. PA also helped make sure nocx never rose much above 900. These three things have probably had more of an effect on the economy as a whole (and as a result the profitability of the miners as a profession) than anything else we've talked about so far. Possibly but the people involved didn't go out of there way to make CCP look incompetent. So what you're saying is that it's not the size of the operation, nor the effect it has on the economy, but how embarassed CCP got? |
Malacath Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 15:24:00 -
[120] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:keyboard macro abuse Last I checked, G15/G19 were on the allowed list, as long as the user was still at the keyboard. Are you trying to start a rumor they weren't at the keyboard? Jade Constantine wrote:hell goons might even show up and shoot the jita monument (once the wardec 1.1 change strips them of all unwanted opposition in hisec). So uh, your few "friends" would try to do anything if we brought down, say, a burn jita-level fleet? I'd bet on them running away yelping like a kicked dog. Jade Constantine wrote:If they don't punish appropriately (returning the loots, letting off the perpetrators with the lightest of slaps) then everyone else will be thinking that goons are treated with kid gloves and let off for things that other players would be ban-hammered mercilessly for. You mean treat this case like they did the insurance fraud, the anoms, PI, PA, gunmining in drone regions, neut logis etc? Yes, that would be heavily goon-friendly and totally in line with their reaction to other, similar incidents. Jade Constantine wrote:Eve as a sandbox economic simulation becomes a lot less attracive for many when its clear that the largest alliance in the space has already rigged the game beyond any significant chance they will ever lose their position of absolute dominance. This sounds very much like a rumor. You wouldn't be trying to start a rumor, would you?
You can not reason with the unreasonable. It must be the bleach.
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