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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
102
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Posted - 2012.06.25 10:11:00 -
[211] - Quote
Oh look goonies exploiting the game and then using their alts to defend themselves
and the sad thing is CCP will bend to their will, just like they did over the inferno war mechanics |
Lord Zim
939
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Posted - 2012.06.25 10:13:00 -
[212] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Oh look goonies exploiting the game and then using their alts to defend themselves
and the sad thing is CCP will bend to their will, just like they did over the inferno war mechanics Let's see you eat that shoe when you're proven wrong. |
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front
263
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Posted - 2012.06.25 11:06:00 -
[213] - Quote
Ghost Xray wrote:I'll try and help.
Ask yourself this: Why did CCP add Faction Wars in the first place? From what I read, CCP wanted Faction Wars to be a place where you could do more casual PVP, a place where newer players could perhaps start their PVP life. I suppose sorta like RVB. So, it wasn't supposed to be a place to earn untold trillion of iskies. But, if you did well in Faction Wars, you'd be more rewarded than if you didn't do well, perhaps enough to keep funding your PVP without having to jump into a PVE ship. To me, that sounds pretty good. Lower risk because your losses can be covered to a degree, and lots of reds to shoot.
The mechanic of "one faction player blows up opposing faction player ship, that faction player receives juicy LP in proportion to the estimated ISK value, including cargo items" makes sense when you think of two cruisers locking horns in epic fighting on a gate. The more isk you spent on your fittings, the better your odds of killing someone, but it also might make you harder to kill thus giving a bit more reward for killing that guy.
All this to me sounds reasonable.
But then, the some Goons show up to the party. "Who invited these guys?!" They join all sides with alts and drive freighter's filled to the rim with ore/items into their own waiting alts on the opposing side and reap ungodly amounts of LP's from the system. Then, using these ill gotten LP's, muck up the whole works with upgrading systems and the like, destroying the whole premise of Faction Wars and system control. They send the whole thing into disarray, much to the chagrin of everyone involved in Faction Wars. Not all of course as some of them were earning a bit more than they probably expected.
This was NOT the intent of the Faction Wars loyalty reward system. You can argue that the devs should have made sure this couldn't happen, but it can also be argued that anyone abusing this aspect of the reward system are breaking the EULA.
This Nisroc Angels Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
340
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Posted - 2012.06.25 11:10:00 -
[214] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Oh look goonies exploiting the game and then using their alts to defend themselves
and the sad thing is CCP will bend to their will, just like they did over the inferno war mechanics Let's see you eat that shoe when you're proven wrong. Would be nice but I will bet on them just taking what they have and that is all. Just to keep everyone unhappy. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Mandos2k
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.06.25 11:13:00 -
[215] - Quote
Ris Dnalor wrote:If they thing had been coded and tested properly, then they wouldn't have been able to do what they did to such an extent.
But it wasn't
That's noones' fault but CCP.
What you are describing is the very nature of bugs and exploitable game mechanics which the TOS expressly forbids. You are advocating cheating.
Ris Dnalor wrote:Correcting the problem is fine, but punishing those who showed entrepreneurial spirit would be a far worse blow than any hit the economy has taken by GoonSwarms actions.
They deliberately and in full knowledge intentionally looked for exploitable oversights to cheat. Their published smug summaries clearly showed that.
The only redeeming feature Goons have is that they made it public, which they deserve credit for. Everything else was plain old cheating. |
Lord Zim
939
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Posted - 2012.06.25 11:16:00 -
[216] - Quote
Ynot Eyob wrote:Ghost Xray wrote:I'll try and help.
Ask yourself this: Why did CCP add Faction Wars in the first place? From what I read, CCP wanted Faction Wars to be a place where you could do more casual PVP, a place where newer players could perhaps start their PVP life. I suppose sorta like RVB. So, it wasn't supposed to be a place to earn untold trillion of iskies. But, if you did well in Faction Wars, you'd be more rewarded than if you didn't do well, perhaps enough to keep funding your PVP without having to jump into a PVE ship. To me, that sounds pretty good. Lower risk because your losses can be covered to a degree, and lots of reds to shoot.
The mechanic of "one faction player blows up opposing faction player ship, that faction player receives juicy LP in proportion to the estimated ISK value, including cargo items" makes sense when you think of two cruisers locking horns in epic fighting on a gate. The more isk you spent on your fittings, the better your odds of killing someone, but it also might make you harder to kill thus giving a bit more reward for killing that guy.
All this to me sounds reasonable.
But then, the some Goons show up to the party. "Who invited these guys?!" They join all sides with alts and drive freighter's filled to the rim with ore/items into their own waiting alts on the opposing side and reap ungodly amounts of LP's from the system. Then, using these ill gotten LP's, muck up the whole works with upgrading systems and the like, destroying the whole premise of Faction Wars and system control. They send the whole thing into disarray, much to the chagrin of everyone involved in Faction Wars. Not all of course as some of them were earning a bit more than they probably expected.
This was NOT the intent of the Faction Wars loyalty reward system. You can argue that the devs should have made sure this couldn't happen, but it can also be argued that anyone abusing this aspect of the reward system are breaking the EULA.
This So what part of the EULA did they break? |
Lord Zim
939
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Posted - 2012.06.25 11:18:00 -
[217] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Oh look goonies exploiting the game and then using their alts to defend themselves
and the sad thing is CCP will bend to their will, just like they did over the inferno war mechanics Let's see you eat that shoe when you're proven wrong. Would be nice but I will bet on them just taking what they have and that is all. Just to keep everyone unhappy. And since "taken what they have" is more than "what was gained from this heist", what would have to be done to keep "everyone" from being "unhappy"? "ban all goons"? |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
343
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Posted - 2012.06.25 11:37:00 -
[218] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Oh look goonies exploiting the game and then using their alts to defend themselves
and the sad thing is CCP will bend to their will, just like they did over the inferno war mechanics Let's see you eat that shoe when you're proven wrong. Would be nice but I will bet on them just taking what they have and that is all. Just to keep everyone unhappy. And since "taken what they have" is more than "what was gained from this heist", what would have to be done to keep "everyone" from being "unhappy"? "ban all goons"? You should know by now that although I despise some of the stupid things Goonswarm members do, EvE would be worse off without Goonswarm, would be helpful if there was more sov war ect.. but that's mechanics.
As to this the precedent exits for being a moron with an exploit. The POS bug and the punishment that followed. I think that would be fitting especially as they rubbed CCP's face in it and actually broke another rule to do so.
But they won't these 5 should count them selves happy if all they get is what has already been done. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2012.06.25 11:41:00 -
[219] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dave stark wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:So yeah macroed but he was at the keyboard. Is that good or bad lol depends, how painful is RSI? Im betting you play more than I do; you tell me doesn't mean he whacks off more than you :P Also likely; Im a vampire. No sex drive look it up. Malkavian
OMG they are here. Beware. Next winter Batman is coming to EVE.
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Lord Zim
939
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Posted - 2012.06.25 11:43:00 -
[220] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:As to this the precedent exits for being a moron with an exploit. The POS bug and the punishment that followed. Except that was 1) Abuse of a programming bug, not creative use of a well-documented public game mechanic. 2) Abuse of said programming bug was done over a period of years.
By that logic, people who abused insurance fraud, refined POS bits into various PI components, bought PA to refine into nocx whenever nocx got past 900 isk, used titans to go POS bowling, used tracking titans to take over whole regions etc, should also be banned. |
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
343
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Posted - 2012.06.25 11:43:00 -
[221] - Quote
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:
OMG they are here. Beware. Next winter Batman is coming to EVE.
Is that the comic version, if so which one? The camp version or the early movie one or the late movie one? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
343
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Posted - 2012.06.25 11:44:00 -
[222] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:As to this the precedent exits for being a moron with an exploit. The POS bug and the punishment that followed. Except that was 1) Abuse of a programming bug, not creative use of a well-documented public game mechanic. 2) Abuse of said programming bug was done over a period of years. By that logic, people who abused insurance fraud, refined POS bits into various PI components, bought PA to refine into nocx whenever nocx got past 900 isk, used titans to go POS bowling, used tracking titans to take over whole regions etc, should also be banned. Just as Morons who waste resources by requiring a know bug to have to be rapidly repaired while so much more in EvE needs fixing should be banned. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Lord Zim
939
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Posted - 2012.06.25 11:58:00 -
[223] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:As to this the precedent exits for being a moron with an exploit. The POS bug and the punishment that followed. Except that was 1) Abuse of a programming bug, not creative use of a well-documented public game mechanic. 2) Abuse of said programming bug was done over a period of years. By that logic, people who abused insurance fraud, refined POS bits into various PI components, bought PA to refine into nocx whenever nocx got past 900 isk, used titans to go POS bowling, used tracking titans to take over whole regions etc, should also be banned. Just as Morons who waste resources by requiring a known bug to have to be rapidly repaired while so much more in EvE needs fixing should be banned. So they are partly responsible for this 672MB patch and should be banhammered to hell and back. In other words, ban everyone. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:08:00 -
[224] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:
OMG they are here. Beware. Next winter Batman is coming to EVE.
Is that the comic version, if so which one? The camp version or the early movie one or the late movie one?
It's a new version. Space Batman, made specially for CQ and WiS features. |
Vicata Heth
EldarRiders Stainwagon.
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:13:00 -
[225] - Quote
Ris Dnalor wrote:I say the goons did what anyone would do with the new LP store.
They figured out the best way to make isk with the programmed mechanics.
They did it really really well.
If they thing had been coded and tested properly, then they wouldn't have been able to do what they did to such an extent.
But it wasn't
That's noones' fault but CCP.
Correcting the problem is fine, but punishing those who showed entrepreneurial spirit would be a far worse blow than any hit the economy has taken by GoonSwarms actions.
The economy will recover itself in time.
But the sandbox will take far longer to recover if CCP acts too harshly in their response.
I say I don't care what you think. You can pull definitions out of your ass all you want and argue over whether it's truly exploiting or whether they just took advantage of game mechanics. The fact is, they weren't supposed to be able to obtain trillions of ISK in such a short period of time via the FW system. They took the ****. If they truly wanted to help the community/CCP as they claim, then why didn't they do it with alts, or keep records of what was used and obtained in the process, and forward those records to CCP to simplify the process of reversing any damage, and ensure they didn't lose anything as a result? Because they wanted to take the ****. This is where CCP used common sense and intervened. I don't necessarily think they should lose items as a result, but the people involved should have had the brains to know CCP wouldn't approve of what they were doing, and take precautionary measures to ensure they didn't take any losses from it.
Could you make another thread for goons to cry in please? |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
1054
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:15:00 -
[226] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:By that logic, people who abused insurance fraud, refined POS bits into various PI components, bought PA to refine into nocx whenever nocx got past 900 isk, used titans to go POS bowling, used tracking titans to take over whole regions etc, should also be banned.
I'd be OK with all of that. Mane 614
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Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:17:00 -
[227] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Ris Dnalor wrote:I say the goons did what anyone would do with the new LP store.
They figured out the best way to make isk with the programmed mechanics.
They did it really really well.
If they thing had been coded and tested properly, then they wouldn't have been able to do what they did to such an extent.
But it wasn't
That's noones' fault but CCP.
Correcting the problem is fine, but punishing those who showed entrepreneurial spirit would be a far worse blow than any hit the economy has taken by GoonSwarms actions.
The economy will recover itself in time.
But the sandbox will take far longer to recover if CCP acts too harshly in their response.
I say I don't care what you think. You can pull definitions out of your ass all you want and argue over whether it's truly exploiting or whether they just took advantage of game mechanics. The fact is, they weren't supposed to be able to obtain trillions of ISK in such a short period of time via the FW system. They took the ****. If they truly wanted to help the community/CCP as they claim, then why didn't they do it with alts, or keep records of what was used and obtained in the process, and forward those records to CCP to simplify the process of reversing any damage, and ensure they didn't lose anything as a result? Because they wanted to take the ****. This is where CCP used common sense and intervened. I don't necessarily think they should lose items as a result, but the people involved should have had the brains to know CCP wouldn't approve of what they were doing, and take precautionary measures to ensure they didn't take any losses from it. Could you make another thread for goons to cry in please?
That's stupid, we're players. We pay to play, what you're saying is CCP's job.
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Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 12:20:00 -
[228] - Quote
I didn't wanted to get involved is this thread but can't avoid replying a stupid statement. |
Lord Zim
941
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 12:20:00 -
[229] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:I say I don't care what you think. You can pull definitions out of your ass all you want and argue over whether it's truly exploiting or whether they just took advantage of game mechanics. The fact is, they weren't supposed to be able to obtain trillions of ISK in such a short period of time via the FW system. They took the ****. If they truly wanted to help the community/CCP as they claim, then why didn't they do it with alts, or keep records of what was used and obtained in the process, and forward those records to CCP to simplify the process of reversing any damage, and ensure they didn't lose anything as a result? Because they wanted to take the ****. This is where CCP used common sense and intervened. I don't necessarily think they should lose items as a result, but the people involved should have had the brains to know CCP wouldn't approve of what they were doing, and take precautionary measures to ensure they didn't take any losses from it.
Could you make another thread for goons to cry in please? I expect you'll do the honourable thing and call for bans of everyone who's insurance frauded, bought PA to refine for nocx, bought POSes to refine into PI components prior to PI being released proper, people using various tricks such as ECCM to become unprobable, titans to POS bowl with, tracking titans to take over whole regions etc etc etc, too?
I mean, wouldn't want you to look unfair, now would we? |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
318
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:25:00 -
[230] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:I say I don't care what you think. You can pull definitions out of your ass all you want and argue over whether it's truly exploiting or whether they just took advantage of game mechanics. The fact is, they weren't supposed to be able to obtain trillions of ISK in such a short period of time via the FW system. They took the ****. If they truly wanted to help the community/CCP as they claim, then why didn't they do it with alts, or keep records of what was used and obtained in the process, and forward those records to CCP to simplify the process of reversing any damage, and ensure they didn't lose anything as a result? Because they wanted to take the ****. This is where CCP used common sense and intervened. I don't necessarily think they should lose items as a result, but the people involved should have had the brains to know CCP wouldn't approve of what they were doing, and take precautionary measures to ensure they didn't take any losses from it.
Could you make another thread for goons to cry in please? I expect you'll do the honourable thing and call for bans of everyone who's insurance frauded, bought PA to refine for nocx, bought POSes to refine into PI components prior to PI being released proper, people using various tricks such as ECCM to become unprobable, titans to POS bowl with, tracking titans to take over whole regions etc etc etc, too? I mean, wouldn't want you to look unfair, now would we?
You forgot those cloacky alts abusing game mechanics to make anom sites not respawn, this was known and over known by CCP and talked about in hundreds pages/posts
Ships refining to get more minerals than those you needed to build them
And the list is so long but worthless to explain to brainless birds. brb |
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Vicata Heth
EldarRiders Stainwagon.
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:30:00 -
[231] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:I say I don't care what you think. You can pull definitions out of your ass all you want and argue over whether it's truly exploiting or whether they just took advantage of game mechanics. The fact is, they weren't supposed to be able to obtain trillions of ISK in such a short period of time via the FW system. They took the ****. If they truly wanted to help the community/CCP as they claim, then why didn't they do it with alts, or keep records of what was used and obtained in the process, and forward those records to CCP to simplify the process of reversing any damage, and ensure they didn't lose anything as a result? Because they wanted to take the ****. This is where CCP used common sense and intervened. I don't necessarily think they should lose items as a result, but the people involved should have had the brains to know CCP wouldn't approve of what they were doing, and take precautionary measures to ensure they didn't take any losses from it.
Could you make another thread for goons to cry in please? I expect you'll do the honourable thing and call for bans of everyone who's insurance frauded, bought PA to refine for nocx, bought POSes to refine into PI components prior to PI being released proper, people using various tricks such as ECCM to become unprobable, titans to POS bowl with, tracking titans to take over whole regions etc etc etc, too? I mean, wouldn't want you to look unfair, now would we?
Also, none of your examples are on the same scale as the FW manipulation as I'll call it. My opinion is that the problem should be solved, and any ill gotten gains reversed. They contacted CCP and informed them about it, didn't post the manipulation details beforehand either. So in my eyes that should keep them clear of any bans or losses. However I also think they were trying to take the **** with it, and wouldn't be surprised to see they were trying to keep some of the isk either. |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
97
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 12:32:00 -
[232] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Maybe they did and decided other things needed fixing first.
Well, they (CCP) definitely knew it could be abused and released it anyway. They (CCP) definitely did know about it and chose to ignore what players told them. Why would they do that instead of fixing it before release? |
Lord Zim
942
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 12:35:00 -
[233] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:I say I don't care what you think. You can pull definitions out of your ass all you want and argue over whether it's truly exploiting or whether they just took advantage of game mechanics. The fact is, they weren't supposed to be able to obtain trillions of ISK in such a short period of time via the FW system. They took the ****. If they truly wanted to help the community/CCP as they claim, then why didn't they do it with alts, or keep records of what was used and obtained in the process, and forward those records to CCP to simplify the process of reversing any damage, and ensure they didn't lose anything as a result? Because they wanted to take the ****. This is where CCP used common sense and intervened. I don't necessarily think they should lose items as a result, but the people involved should have had the brains to know CCP wouldn't approve of what they were doing, and take precautionary measures to ensure they didn't take any losses from it.
Could you make another thread for goons to cry in please? I expect you'll do the honourable thing and call for bans of everyone who's insurance frauded, bought PA to refine for nocx, bought POSes to refine into PI components prior to PI being released proper, people using various tricks such as ECCM to become unprobable, titans to POS bowl with, tracking titans to take over whole regions etc etc etc, too? I mean, wouldn't want you to look unfair, now would we? Also, none of your examples are on the same scale as the FW manipulation as I'll call it. So you're not looking for legality to base whether or not punishments should be doled out, but isk value.
Can you put an isk value on the PI manipulation? Can you put an isk value on the PA refining manipulation? Can you put an isk value on the usage of gunmining to build tons of titans, supercarriers and shipping tons of drone poo to hisec, only to be redistributed onwards across hisec/lowsec/nullsec to be used for further manufacturing? Can you put an isk value on what the gunmining's impact on miners' income was? |
Wisdom Divine
State Protectorate Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:38:00 -
[234] - Quote
People still saying goons got trillions of ISK.
They didn't. They got implants, bpcs, and datacores worth trillions at today's prices.
It was going to take them many months to actually cash those items, probably in a depressing market.
The final isk/time gain might have ended in the range of at least one past loophole I can think of, the trillions out of which were never nullified by CCP of course.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
351
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:39:00 -
[235] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Maybe they did and decided other things needed fixing first. Well, they (CCP) definitely knew it could be abused and released it anyway. They (CCP) definitely did know about it and chose to ignore what players told them. Why would they do that instead of fixing it before release? Like I said in the rest of that. Maybe they wanted to get it out rather than waiting for ever to test every possible bug.
And maybe they believed that EvE did not contain anyone stupid enough to then try and exploit a known bug especially as the rules clearly state doing so result in permanent bans.
Every thing in life contains bugs that result in stupid things occurring if they are abused that is why we have laws and rules.
Otherwise anarchy would rule supreme, it doesn't in most parts of the world and morons who deliberately break rules and then yell about it to the media get punished. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Lord Zim
942
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:43:00 -
[236] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Like I said in the rest of that. Maybe they wanted to get it out rather than waiting for ever to test every possible bug. CCP have stated repeatedly that they're turning over a new leaf and not releasing things before they're satisfied with their quality. The CCP of olde would've released things and say "we'll fix it later". See: Captain's Quarters.
Frying Doom wrote:And maybe they believed that EvE did not contain anyone stupid enough to then try and exploit a known bug especially as the rules clearly state doing so result in permanent bans. Ev0ke abused a programming bug for years. Insurance fraud, POS bit refinery into PI bits, PA refinery into nocx, titan POS bowling and tracking titans were the creative use of published in-game mechanics, which have never been punished before, at all.
Saying "the rules clearly state doing so result in permanent bans" doesn't match up with previous incidents. |
Vicata Heth
EldarRiders Stainwagon.
23
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:53:00 -
[237] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Like I said in the rest of that. Maybe they wanted to get it out rather than waiting for ever to test every possible bug. CCP have stated repeatedly that they're turning over a new leaf and not releasing things before they're satisfied with their quality. The CCP of olde would've released things and say "we'll fix it later". See: Captain's Quarters. Frying Doom wrote:And maybe they believed that EvE did not contain anyone stupid enough to then try and exploit a known bug especially as the rules clearly state doing so result in permanent bans. Ev0ke abused a programming bug for years. Insurance fraud, POS bit refinery into PI bits, PA refinery into nocx, titan POS bowling and tracking titans were the creative use of published in-game mechanics, which have never been punished before, at all. Saying "the rules clearly state doing so result in permanent bans" doesn't match up with previous incidents.
So clearly we should let it continue even though it has a negative effect on the game. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
352
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:54:00 -
[238] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Like I said in the rest of that. Maybe they wanted to get it out rather than waiting for ever to test every possible bug. CCP have stated repeatedly that they're turning over a new leaf and not releasing things before they're satisfied with their quality. The CCP of olde would've released things and say "we'll fix it later". See: Captain's Quarters. Frying Doom wrote:And maybe they believed that EvE did not contain anyone stupid enough to then try and exploit a known bug especially as the rules clearly state doing so result in permanent bans. Ev0ke abused a programming bug for years. Insurance fraud, POS bit refinery into PI bits, PA refinery into nocx, titan POS bowling and tracking titans were the creative use of published in-game mechanics, which have never been punished before, at all. Saying "the rules clearly state doing so result in permanent bans" doesn't match up with previous incidents. Yes so we should all be happy now that CCP are responding quicker to people breaking the rules. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Lord Ryan
Quantum Cats Syndicate
534
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 12:55:00 -
[239] - Quote
Many of us are letting goon hate cloud are judgement.
When a child is violated are you not appalled?
Yet when that child is a goon you cheer? -á"Nerf it cause I can't fly it". I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Vicata Heth
EldarRiders Stainwagon.
23
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:57:00 -
[240] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:Many of us are letting goon hate cloud are judgement.
When a child is violated are you not appalled?
Yet when that child is a goon you cheer?
Liked for implying goons are children :D |
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