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Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:58:00 -
[241] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Alexandra Delarge wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Maybe they did and decided other things needed fixing first. Well, they (CCP) definitely knew it could be abused and released it anyway. They (CCP) definitely did know about it and chose to ignore what players told them. Why would they do that instead of fixing it before release? Like I said in the rest of that. Maybe they wanted to get it out rather than waiting for ever to test every possible bug. And maybe they believed that EvE did not contain anyone stupid enough to then try and exploit a known bug especially as the rules clearly state doing so result in permanent bans. Every thing in life contains bugs that result in stupid things occurring if they are abused that is why we have laws and rules. Otherwise anarchy would rule supreme, it doesn't in most parts of the world and morons who deliberately break rules and then yell about it to the media get punished.
Anarchy doesn't rule. Anarchy is anti-ruling. Abstracting other stupid content from post. I don't want to waste my time. |
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
97
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:58:00 -
[242] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Alexandra Delarge wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Maybe they did and decided other things needed fixing first. Well, they (CCP) definitely knew it could be abused and released it anyway. They (CCP) definitely did know about it and chose to ignore what players told them. Why would they do that instead of fixing it before release? Like I said in the rest of that. Maybe they wanted to get it out rather than waiting for ever to test every possible bug. And maybe they believed that EvE did not contain anyone stupid enough to then try and exploit a known bug especially as the rules clearly state doing so result in permanent bans. Every thing in life contains bugs that result in stupid things occurring if they are abused that is why we have laws and rules. Otherwise anarchy would rule supreme, it doesn't in most parts of the world and morons who deliberately break rules and then yell about it to the media get punished. If it was a known bug then surely CCP would have fixed it before release or made a post explaining it was a bug.
Everything in life contains bugs? I have no idea what you are talking about but I think it would be best if we stuck to the mechanics/rules of computer games when discussing this issue.
Anyway, the 'rules and laws' which you talk about are made by CCP and they ignored feedback when people told them that their 'rules and laws' were not good enough.
You should probably stop calling people names, confusing real life laws and rules with computer game mechanics, stop making excuses for CCP and ask yourself 'How did CCP manage to ignore feedback that explicitely mentioned this issue and release it anyway?' |
Lord Zim
942
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:07:00 -
[243] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:So clearly we should let it continue even though it has a negative effect on the game. The precedence, which Frying Doom keeps harping on about, on how CCP dealt with this kind of situation in the past has been to tell people it's now considered an exploit, punish those who persist in using it in that fashion (citation needed, I haven't really heard of many people being punished for doing this), change the mechanic to stop people from the creative way they were using it, and move on. This has apparently changed.
I expect the devblog will be detailing that this is the new line with which CCP will deal with any creative use of any game mechanic in future. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
352
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:08:00 -
[244] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Alexandra Delarge wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Maybe they did and decided other things needed fixing first. Well, they (CCP) definitely knew it could be abused and released it anyway. They (CCP) definitely did know about it and chose to ignore what players told them. Why would they do that instead of fixing it before release? Like I said in the rest of that. Maybe they wanted to get it out rather than waiting for ever to test every possible bug. And maybe they believed that EvE did not contain anyone stupid enough to then try and exploit a known bug especially as the rules clearly state doing so result in permanent bans. Every thing in life contains bugs that result in stupid things occurring if they are abused that is why we have laws and rules. Otherwise anarchy would rule supreme, it doesn't in most parts of the world and morons who deliberately break rules and then yell about it to the media get punished. If it was a known bug then surely CCP would have fixed it before release or made a post explaining it was a bug. Everything in life contains bugs? I have no idea what you are talking about but I think it would be best if we stuck to the mechanics/rules of computer games when discussing this issue. Anyway, the 'rules and laws' which you talk about are made by CCP and they ignored feedback when people told them that their 'rules and laws' were not good enough. You should probably stop calling people names, confusing real life laws and rules with computer game mechanics, stop making excuses for CCP and ask yourself 'How did CCP manage to ignore feedback that explicitely mentioned this issue and release it anyway?' We are not taking about a characters perspective this is in the real world. In the EvE universe the planets are not run by computer code. Out here in the real world it is. We are not in a computer game and here in real life actions have consequences. They broke multiple rules that exist in the real world most notably the ones in the section marked Banable Offences.
But I cannot say I am aware of people telling CCP that there rules and laws were flawed just the game mechanics. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
667
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:08:00 -
[245] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:Many of us are letting goon hate cloud are judgement.
When a child is violated are you not appalled?
Yet when that child is a goon you cheer?
That is one of the most sensible posts.
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
352
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:10:00 -
[246] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:So clearly we should let it continue even though it has a negative effect on the game. The precedence, which Frying Doom keeps harping on about, on how CCP dealt with this kind of situation in the past has been to tell people it's now considered an exploit, punish those who persist in using it in that fashion (citation needed, I haven't really heard of many people being punished for doing this), change the mechanic to stop people from the creative way they were using it, and move on. This has apparently changed. I expect the devblog will be detailing that this is the new line with which CCP will deal with any creative use of any game mechanic in future. They broke the rules, pure and simple.
They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple.
They should be punished pure and simple. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
352
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:11:00 -
[247] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:Yet when that child is a goon you cheer?
If the child is playing EvE the child needs to go. You have to be 13 to play
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
490
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:15:00 -
[248] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:Many of us are letting goon hate cloud are judgement.
When a child is violated are you not appalled?
Yet when that child is a goon you cheer?
Yes as the child in general is part of a greifer org (self admitted) who's motto is "we are not here to ruin the game, we are here to ruin your game "
So excuse us if we don't shed a tear when there own actions turn around and bite them in the ass....
Lol sympathy for Goons.
Tal |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:20:00 -
[249] - Quote
How many of you started reading the forums after being ganked at Jita Burn? A lot of senseless hatred in this thread. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
352
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:22:00 -
[250] - Quote
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:How many of you started reading the forums after being ganked at Jita Burn? Lots of senseless hatred in this thread. I doubt anyone who is on this forum or reads it was in Jita during the burn. Well except the Goons of course. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Lord Zim
942
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:24:00 -
[251] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:They broke the rules, pure and simple.
Frying Doom wrote:They should be punished pure and simple. At the time of the actions in question, it was not deemed an exploit, and it was not utilizing a programming bug. Exactly like insurance fraud, PI, PA, titan bowling and tracking titans etc etc etc. Which means that the way CCP is handling matters of this type has changed in this case.
Frying Doom wrote:They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple. Are you trying to say that the reaction is a revenge act? |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
352
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:34:00 -
[252] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple. Are you trying to say that the reaction is a revenge act? No just they managed to make CCP look bad and break a rule at the same time. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:41:00 -
[253] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple. Are you trying to say that the reaction is a revenge act? No just they managed to make CCP look bad and break a rule at the same time. Enlighten me. Wich rule did they broke? I dont want to read a 150 page post looking for it. I read the EULA though. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:44:00 -
[254] - Quote
Just to make things clear. I'm just the average curious guy. I have no simpaty for the Goons. Although, as an EVE player, I have a lot of interest in how CCP handles different game actions. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
352
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:54:00 -
[255] - Quote
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple. Are you trying to say that the reaction is a revenge act? No just they managed to make CCP look bad and break a rule at the same time. Enlighten me. Wich rule did they broke? I dont want to read a 150 page thread looking for it. I read the EULA though. Rules, multiple and if you can only be bothered reading the EULA you should not be playing eve. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:56:00 -
[256] - Quote
'multiple' is not even close to be an acceptable answer. Begone, troll. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
1055
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 14:02:00 -
[257] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:Many of us are letting goon hate cloud are judgement.
When a child is violated are you not appalled?
Yet when that child is a goon you cheer?
Wow, you've got a well-constructed strawman here, in which you compare Goons to children and the punishment they received to sexual assault. Mane 614
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Lord Zim
942
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Posted - 2012.06.25 14:04:00 -
[258] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple. Are you trying to say that the reaction is a revenge act? No just they managed to make CCP look bad and break a rule at the same time. So you're calling insurance fraud, PI manip, PA refining, tracking titans etc "not bugs", then? I mean, they were design flaws which people used to "gain an unfair advantage over other players", yet no punishment were doled out in any way, shape or form.
So something has changed. Are you saying CCP are doing this just to be vindictive over being made to look bad?
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:Enlighten me. Wich rule did they broke? I dont want to read a 150 page thread looking for it. I read the EULA though. The one I keep hearing is http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp, point 23, but by that definition all the players who did the above (and more) should also be banned or negwalleted or have their assets gained during that heist (and then some) seized, yet nothing happened at all to them. The only thing which happened was that the usage pattern was deemed an exploit (at which point you used it at your own peril), the game mechanic was changed, and everything just kept on trucking. |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
109
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Posted - 2012.06.25 14:11:00 -
[259] - Quote
I see another GOON pet has head up arse again. lets take another look at this with an anology from real life Gallon of Gasoline = Legal Glass Jar = Legl Rag = Legal Match = Legal yes those are all legal but when combine them it become Molotov Cocktail is ILLEGAL. Which basicly yhe GOONs did and tossed it on Sreegs desk.
I seen in a few games where a group were problem that the DEV when asked stated "we know about and are addressing the issue" but you go and play with the problem not knowing if they are considering it an Exploit, bug or coding issue. COMMON SENSE would dictate that they may consider this a an exploit and should not do it. for Lack of thinking you got in trouble. Just man up and face the consequences but we all know that the GOONs/PETs that get caught doing this have no idea to think other then seeing dollar signs.
Have fun kids they deserve what they get. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 14:21:00 -
[260] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:The one I keep hearing is http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp, point 23, but by that definition all the players who did the above (and more) should also be banned or negwalleted or have their assets gained during that heist (and then some) seized, yet nothing happened at all to them. The only thing which happened was that the usage pattern was deemed an exploit (at which point you used it at your own peril), the game mechanic was changed, and everything just kept on trucking.
That rule doesn't apply since it wasn't a bug Goons exploited. They just figured out the game formula for calculating LP payout and abused it. That's the same thing players had to do when CCP released thermodynamics. The difference is the mechanic for LP payout was a really poor one wich wasn't tested properly before release to prevent this type of abuse... AND I believe it was not expected from CCP for it to be of any player focus. I do agree that Goons should't keep the profit from it, since keeping trillions from a design flaw is bit of game breaking. Now being punished for it isn't right. They probably deserve some punishment in-game for other actions but not from CCP. What thid they get from it? Account ban doesn't sound right at all. |
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Signal11th
543
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Posted - 2012.06.25 14:23:00 -
[261] - Quote
Seems to me being more intelligent than a CCP developer is considered an exploit nowadays.
God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!"-á I came second and won a toaster. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 14:26:00 -
[262] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Lord Ryan wrote:Many of us are letting goon hate cloud are judgement.
When a child is violated are you not appalled?
Yet when that child is a goon you cheer? Wow, you've got a well-constructed strawman here, in which you compare Goons to children and the punishment they received to sexual assault.
Wow, a debate specialist here. You built the strawmen, brother. The poster you quoted didn't made a comparation. He made a metaphor.
EDIT: nvm, I'm not a debate specialist either. |
Lord Zim
942
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Posted - 2012.06.25 14:28:00 -
[263] - Quote
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:What thid they get from it? Account ban doesn't sound right at all. From what I've gathered, all the assets made from this heist seized/removed from the account and the removal of quite a few datacores bought legitimately prior to this whole debacle, in addition to the ISK they spent. No account ban. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 14:33:00 -
[264] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:What thid they get from it? Account ban doesn't sound right at all. From what I've gathered, all the assets made from this heist seized/removed from the account and the removal of quite a few datacores bought legitimately prior to this whole debacle, in addition to the ISK they spent. No account ban.
Then I'm outta here. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
178
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 14:42:00 -
[265] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Vicata Heth wrote:So clearly we should let it continue even though it has a negative effect on the game. The precedence, which Frying Doom keeps harping on about, on how CCP dealt with this kind of situation in the past has been to tell people it's now considered an exploit, punish those who persist in using it in that fashion (citation needed, I haven't really heard of many people being punished for doing this), change the mechanic to stop people from the creative way they were using it, and move on. This has apparently changed. I expect the devblog will be detailing that this is the new line with which CCP will deal with any creative use of any game mechanic in future. They broke the rules, pure and simple. They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple. They should be punished pure and simple.
And if they dont, yet another riot and lost subs pure and simple
Frying Doom wrote: No just they managed to make CCP look bad and break a rule at the same time.
Which funnily enough is also against the rules. Either by making it harder for them to operate the game (by making them look bad) or by saying they are idiots (attacking CCP which if you look at those new rules is a permabann offense without ever being reviewed) http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 14:50:00 -
[266] - Quote
They are not being punished. CCP just made a mistake when fixing the mess from the FW design flaw. Some datacores from Goonswarm assets that will probably be given back if they are telling the truth. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
880
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 14:52:00 -
[267] - Quote
NO rule was broken. Goons abused a mechanic that CCP didn't think through.
Just like insurance. Just like the PA. Just like PI initially.
There is no rule against abusing intentional mechanics that are just bad ideas.
However, if CCP decides that the rules were broken, then I expect them to dish out the hand of punishment to everyone who made use of the mechanic. And everyone in FW who benefited. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
1056
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 14:55:00 -
[268] - Quote
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:Wow, a debate specialist here. You built the strawmen, brother. The poster you quoted didn't made a comparation. He made a metaphor.
Not only did he make a comparison to child abuse right after invoking the goons by name, he made a direct connection to goons by saying "if that child is a goon". So yeah, he directly compared CCP punishing goons for exploiting to child abuse. I concede that may not actually be a strawman, but it's certainly a false and misleading comparison.
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:EDIT: nvm, I'm not a debate specialist either.
Clearly. Mane 614
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Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
178
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Posted - 2012.06.25 15:00:00 -
[269] - Quote
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:They are not being punished. CCP just made a mistake when fixing the mess from the FW design flaw. Some datacores from Goonswarm assets that will probably be given back if they are telling the truth.
the datacores were part of it lying Goons???
NO WAI
Quote:The original babby step was to use hydromagnetic datacores. Hydrocores had a CCP Value of 317,000 ISK (pay attention to this number, because itGÇÖs important). When we bought Minmatar into Tier 4, we were rewarded with a 50% reduction in both LP and ISK cost of our purchases from their loyalty store, so one datacore from the LP store at Tier 4 cost 25 LP and 25,000 isk. When the hauler with the datacore inside was duly murdered by our Minmatar loyalist, it rewarded the murderer with 63.5 LP. Blowing up datacores in this manner grossed enough LP to cash out into implants (at 2000 ISK/LP) to cover the isk portion of the cost of the datacore, while still netting excess LP in the process. Essentially, we were able to convert ISK to LP at the rate of 1390 ISK per LP, then immediately sell the produced LP for 1.5 times what we paid.
cause like they said; the datacores were totally not part of it
Corina Jarr wrote:NO rule was broken. Goons abused a mechanic that CCP didn't think through.
Just like insurance. Just like the PA. Just like PI initially.
There is no rule against abusing intentional mechanics that are just bad ideas.
However, if CCP decides that the rules were broken, then I expect them to dish out the hand of punishment to everyone who made use of the mechanic. And everyone in FW who benefited.
lol youre trying to get all of minmatar FW banned cute http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2012.06.25 15:02:00 -
[270] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:Wow, a debate specialist here. You built the strawmen, brother. The poster you quoted didn't made a comparation. He made a metaphor. Not only did he make a comparison to child abuse right after invoking the goons by name, he made a direct connection to goons by saying "if that child is a goon". So yeah, he directly compared CCP punishing goons for exploiting to child abuse. I concede that may not actually be a strawman, but it's certainly a false and misleading comparison. Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:EDIT: nvm, I'm not a debate specialist either. Clearly.
I think he just meant Goons are innocent. I wouldn't say they are innocent as children, but they really didn't commited any crimes regarding EULA/TOS. Anyway, read my last post, it most probably isn't punishment hence none of this makes any sense.
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