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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
762
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Posted - 2012.06.27 16:34:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP does features by making little one or 2 line "stories" describing the feature. It may help if we tried to do the same. For example:
The neocom shall have 2 buttons related to inventory: One which when pressed opens the item window with the tree open or closed depending on its state last time this window was open. The other, when pressed opens the ship hangar.
When the ship hangar opens it opens in the same screen location as that last time it was opened, irrelevant of what other inventory windows have been opened and closed in the meantime.
The number, size, and state of all inventory windows is remembered separately for in space and docked. Changing a window in space will have no effect on the windows seen when docked, and vice-verse.
In any station with a corp hangar, there shall be a button to open that hangar directly.
And so on. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
329
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 16:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
Posted by CCP RubberBAND on the test server forums: Hey all,
TL:DR: Based on your feedback the top points the team will discuss and follow up on are
GÇó Fast access to Inventory locations (bays, Items, ships, corporate hangars, etc) via shortcuts (be they on the Neocom, right click,etc) - I.e. alternatives to the tree view GÇó Consistency between the Primary and the Secondary windows, specifically their persistence. They should not usurp what the user is doing at any time.
The Long version that you did read:
Thanks for all the feedback, in particular ZaBob and Cerys Magente who made incredibly compelling posts. This is what we need. While a lot of people would like us to specifically address the concerns they have now, we cannot. Nothing is as simple as it seems on the outside, in fact quite the opposite. We are also headed into summer months and believe it or not people take a few weeks off here and there which usually means no team is running at full capacity for a while.
To explain why a rollback is not a simple solution. The new Unified Inventory required an extensive rewrite of a lot of fundamental ways in which the Inventory windows are built. This code touched a number of different files across a number of different systems, some which you may not even consider related to the Inventory. Once those changes are final everyone else in the company builds on the new code changes. An analogy is that we placed some bricks in a wall, other programmers have now placed their bricks on top of ours. We cannot just remove our bricks and try and shove old ones in.
I would appreciate if people dropped this point, we will not go back to the old system.
However as a first point, not only do we read almost every single post here (I personally have been reading every feedback thread, including the Inferno 1.1 - every single page and the 907 you linked to ZaBob), but we also talk to people in game, CSM, read blogs, watch the YouTube videos, track the twitter accounts and the Facebook threads. So with that said let me summarize the points we feel are hurting the community.
Or the what needs to be fixed list:
Persistence: the issue of persistence is complicated and confusing. I agree. The Secondary and Primary window do not behave consistently in ways the user might expect. The primary window being usurped is particularly confusing. GÇó We (Game of Drones) will discuss this, I agree there is work left to be done here
Shortcuts: Some form of shortcut should exist to specific folders and locations (preferably on the Neocom or station services) GÇó We actually have a few different plans for this. I would rather not go into specifics, but we are discussing exactly how best to deal with this.
Right click options: Bring back the right click options GÇó This has been discussed, my understanding is though that you would also like these windows to be opened up in a new window, rather than in the Primary. Raising this feedback to the team and Soundwave. We will discuss and decide on a course of action once that has happened. This should be one of the easier points to bring to a conclusion.
Remove ISK price: Self explanatory GÇó I would like to state that there is no performance increase in removing this. None. I have seen a lot of posts claiming that removing the ISK price would reduce the lag. It would not. It has nothing to do with lag. The way we move items across inventory locations however has changed, and when moving (say 500 blueprints) from one location to the next, the EST price will change as the items are moved out in batches. This is an easy visual indicated but the problem is somewhere else and we are investigating this. GÇó The issue of reducing the bottom border is a legitimate concern, we will discuss this, but we have plans to use that bottom border...
Make SHIFT click a toggle: Have an option so that you can enable shift for clicking in the Inventory by default GÇó Also will be raised as a very valid point. We are actually working on a feature where you will simply be able to drag out windows from the Index tree, coming soon. No shift click required. The problem with making double click or single click open a new window, is that when is the system supposed to know you want to simply select a tree view line to view its contents (possibly a reverse shift click in this case?)
Tree view is not practical: There are situations where it becomes so long it is unusable or takes too long to use. GÇó This is really difficult to solve, but we will also discuss this. I will do my best to wrangle the team together to see if we can decide on a course of action. That being said I would again like to just point out that Summer vacation is close and some of the team will be dropping out for a few weeks here and there. We understand though that people need quick easy alternatives to the tree view, shortcut key bindings, buttons, right click options, etc.
Inventory slow: In some cases people are claiming that the Inventory is slow GÇó We have to deal with this on a case by case basis. If you are experiencing a slow Inventory please run LogServer and detail how the Inventory is slow (how many seconds it is taking to do what exactly). We need logs to investigate this further. Even on TQ my personal experience is looting is instant, both to open windows, clicking loot and the window closing. Changing ships at a POS or otherwise waiting for the tree view load should take no more than a few seconds. http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=120 GÇó Please upload the logs to somewhere we can access them and we will have a look Continued
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Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
329
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 16:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
I would like to summarize that the above are points I have raised with the team and we will discuss more thoroughly at some point this week. Following that we will make a plan to try and address these top concerns (I am raising these as concerns, I cannot mandate priority of work, etc).
Hopefully I have not missed anything, but it feels like the above are the top concerns from the community and we will do our best to address them as time permits. Again I will personally say sorry that the Unified Inventory has not made your life as easy as it should be and hopefully we can make this right.
Thanks again for taking the time to reply to us with all this feedback
original post
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1541693#post1541693 |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
910
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 16:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:CCP does features by making little one or 2 line "stories" describing the feature. It may help if we tried to do the same. For example:
The neocom shall have 2 buttons related to inventory: One which when pressed opens the item window with the tree open or closed depending on its state last time this window was open. The other, when pressed opens the ship hangar.
When the ship hangar opens it opens in the same screen location as that last time it was opened, irrelevant of what other inventory windows have been opened and closed in the meantime.
The number, size, and state of all inventory windows is remembered separately for in space and docked. Changing a window in space will have no effect on the windows seen when docked, and vice-verse.
In any station with a corp hangar, there shall be a button to open that hangar directly.
And so on. Nice.
It would help a lot if we could save different window settings. That way those who like the new system can have it in tree mode. Those who need to do a lot of moving from many cans can have them separate and be able to switch between he two (or more0 saved settings.
Kinda like the overview... |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1526
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 16:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
MEDWAY wrote:OK its been a while now we had this and its absolute shite, you guys again have screwed with something that was fine before now its just a complete PITA.
Sort it out ffs!!!
It was most definitely not fine before!
The problem is it's even worse now. The whole thing needs a complete recode. What a waste of programmer time this turned out to be. Maybe a little more pre-production work and a little less 'Gee whiz, look what I can do with no real thought to the consequences of my actions', seat of the pants, yahoo development.
Mr Epeen
There is no excuse beyond fatalistic self-indulgence and sheer laziness for doing nothing --á Iain Banks |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
694
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 17:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:In a related note, we just finished testing drag and drop to open separate cargoholds. Sorry we didn't get it in on Monday, but it's going in the next one and should show up on the test server at the next update
Please. can you make it so that corporate hangars don't do the "rubberband" of "click to open", "delay to open hangars", "not going to open corp hangars anymore, kthxbai" that it currently does? That is the most troublesome thing.
When i click on the corp hangar to open, it should open! Let me know if you need videos of this in action.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Dark Matter Coalition
1156
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 17:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:In a related note, we just finished testing drag and drop to open separate cargoholds. Sorry we didn't get it in on Monday, but it's going in the next one and should show up on the test server at the next update Please. can you make it so that corporate hangars don't do the "rubberband" of "click to open", "delay to open hangars", "not going to open corp hangars anymore, kthxbai" that it currently does? That is the most troublesome thing. When i click on the corp hangar to open, it should open! Let me know if you need videos of this in action.
I think like how the big cross post above stated you should probably check the log server on that one. The Drake is a Lie |
Pestka
0
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Posted - 2012.06.27 17:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
The use of the new inventory is awful. I hate it. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
36
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 17:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
New inventory system is much better than the previous one. Fewer clicks to do what I want in space, less ****** about with windows in station or in space. Takes a while to get used to, but otherwise it's a huge improvement. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
378
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 17:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
Chribba wrote:I absolutely love the new inventory, I don't want the old one back at all... *sarcasm*
I should report you for hard trolling !!
But I need your Veldspar so, I'll stay quiet
brb |
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Pokutnik
0
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Posted - 2012.06.27 17:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
I hate it, too. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
378
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 17:39:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:In a related note, we just finished testing drag and drop to open separate cargoholds. Sorry we didn't get it in on Monday, but it's going in the next one and should show up on the test server at the next update
Keep the effort, this thing is getting good from my humble point of view. If you can manage to get us free of the lag that does with we'll get back old inventory version 1.0 retail by it self.
Yep there are still some tiny little buggy stuff but as I was sure you were incapable to take the challenge I can say now, you guys did it fine. Keep the good work and effort to take that pesky fracking scumshift pig ass lag and everything will look a lot better.
brb |
Lex Arson
Adversity.
86
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Posted - 2012.06.27 17:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
imo, updates like this need to be less like "Dev 'X' thinks this is broken/outdated/needs fixing, so you get this cool new thing," and more of "what do players think is broken/outdated/needs fixing, and what do they want out of it?" These forums exist for a reason CCP. |
MadMuppet
A Better Corp Name
483
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 17:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
So my account lapsed before this last update came out. I came back in to see how it behaved. I need to tinker with it more, but from what I've seen so far there are still a few things that bug the crap out of me (but I will admit some things are getting better).
Looting taking over the cargo window is still high on my list of annoying crap. I wish that CCP would either implement a mappable key to 'loot all' or allow an ability to have cans and wreck spawn in a separate window like they used to. When I am using a Noctis it isn't such a big deal, but when I am looting with other ships it sucks to have to track the mouse back and forth on the screen to hit 'loot all'.
There is still the annoying feature where if you are docked and open your ship's cargo window in its own window and then undock it is still there, but when you hit the cargo button in the HUD you get a different cargo window (so now you have two).
I need to tinker with a few other things to see if they are any better than before.Things like hovering over a selection in the tree too long (which isn't long at all) and having it just auto-select that area, a function that turns moving stuff in to a game of twitch reaction and drove me away from using the tree unless absolutely necessary.
I should probably go get my Orca and start testing all the glitches I found to see if they are still there.
If I tried to make a type of coffee that made all of you happy, and you rated it, the group score for it would be about 60 out of 100. Break into 3 or 4 coffee clusters, and made coffee just for each cluster, the scores would go from 60 to 78. The difference between coffee at 60 and coffee at 78 is a difference between coffee that makes you wince or makes you happy. |
Xercodo
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Dark Matter Coalition
1156
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 18:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lex Arson wrote:imo, updates like this need to be less like "Dev 'X' thinks this is broken/outdated/needs fixing, so you get this cool new thing," and more of "what do players think is broken/outdated/needs fixing, and what do they want out of it?" These forums exist for a reason CCP.
Personally, the inventory was one of those things that while we never thought of changing, was really one of those old systems that did need an update.
Now I just keep the ships, items and current ship cargo open as secondaries and do my can / auxiliary bay / corp hanger in the primary window.
And I love the filters too :D The Drake is a Lie |
Acquisitioneer
Phantom Division
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 18:13:00 -
[46] - Quote
The new inventory is just horrible, cumbersome and slow to use, I do not like it at all. |
Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
261
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 18:35:00 -
[47] - Quote
I liked how the OP carefully detailed every part of the new inventory he didn't like |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
915
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 18:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:... Looting taking over the cargo window is still high on my list of annoying crap. I wish that CCP would either implement a mappable key to 'loot all' or allow an ability to have cans and wreck spawn in a separate window like they used to. When I am using a Noctis it isn't such a big deal, but when I am looting with other ships it sucks to have to track the mouse back and forth on the screen to hit 'loot all'. ..
This is the biggest annoyance.
New cans in space should at least auto open (with a setting of course) to a new window. |
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 20:04:00 -
[49] - Quote
I will state the obvious:
We Want The Same Potential We Had Before.
It's that simple.
Code it in PERL plus Java for what we care but if a 9 years ancient piece of spaghetti code was ugly yet blazing fast and effective, then the New And Improved Thing has to be at least as effective if not as fast.
As of now it's not so.
When I took opening and keeping POS labs with multiple divisions with 1 click as a given, I would never thought one day all of this would be over and we'd be down to the clumsiest Windows 3.11 clone tree controls.
There's a reason why ALL moved away from tree views and embraced tab controls. Quicker, more practical, the labels span in horizonal better, keep much less screen estate.
Also, the dev who said we should run the log server: he should try logging on TQ some times and play for 2-3 minutes on a character with the average number of boxes with some hundreds items. He'd not need a log server to see that what took 0.5 seconds with the old inventory now takes 5-6 seconds. |
ISquishWorms
145
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 20:14:00 -
[50] - Quote
I am really starting to enjoy Starcraft II. |
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ISquishWorms
145
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 20:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ivana Twinkle wrote:I liked how the OP carefully detailed every part of the new inventory he didn't like
What's to like? |
Price Check Aisle3
107
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 20:38:00 -
[52] - Quote
Devs: Watch Tippia's video and live it, It can't be said enough.
Although I've kind of gotten used to the whole thing, I still find it fairly odious at times. I like having my inventory open while I'm flying for some stupid reason and I notice it refreshing a lot. Is it polling at regular intervals? Could this also be related to the fact that my two clients sometimes literally lock up my computer when I dock at a station or warp to my POS?
What is also freaky is that I notice it refreshing while I orbit a wormhole. I want to test this with a cloaked corp mate: does it refresh when I pass them?
And I spoke too early in the other feedback thread: the sidebar does not remember its size, or it's reverting to old sizes, or something else. Does this have something to do with me logging in two different accounts into the same client (sometimes I'm just updating skills, no need to open both clients)?
Someone posted an image showing a favorites box at the top of the sidebar that doesn't ever scroll with the list and I think that is brilliant and would save some time. At the very least, the current ship should be at the top of the list and always shown by default. The time savings would be awesome.
Also, when I change to another ship, it would be ******* awesome if the current view changed to the new ship instead of sticking with the old one. It's downright confusing sometimes ("Why does my Drake have torpedoes? Oh, right, I'm still looking at the Manticore's cargo. ").
Looting is p close to what we previously had and I like that.
As a disclaimer, I'm not a power user. I run an anom or two in the morning and my POS is a tiny FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE, and it works almost okay for me. However, the old functionality was still better for exploration, I can tell you that much. - Karl Hobb IATS |
Tesal
27
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 21:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
I've had too many cases of hovering over the wrong can and having it open, then placing the items inside and not being able to find it again. So now I just shift click open all the windows manually and drag and drop so I don't make mistakes. I have just as many windows open as before and it takes even more screen real estate to do it. Its a real pain when you have hundreds of BPO and other items in multiple cans and any mistake will leave having to search for it.
I also don't like the immersion aspect of this. I liked getting into the game and feeling like I was actually opening something up and closing it. Now it feels like a spread sheet. I don't like it at all this way.
I also don't like the corporate hangars. If you have a ship with corp hangars and want to open another corp hangar, you will often click on the wrong one and move items to the wrong place. Then realize the mistake hopefully and then have to find it again and move it where it belongs. It is not a very intuitive setup. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
777
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 22:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
Inventory works fine you're all whiney crybabies that are blowing any failings in the system completely out of proportion with drama, as per usual. |
Zleon Leigh
170
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 22:38:00 -
[55] - Quote
Chribba wrote:I absolutely love the new inventory, I don't want the old one back at all... *sarcasm*
daaagnzzzz - for Chribba that was a throw down!
Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 22:53:00 -
[56] - Quote
Inventory blows,
dragging and dropping into the tree for example a millisecond to long and it opens that container, aaaaarrrrrrgh if I wanted it open I would click on it .......
deep breaths, calm down...
Thats just one very small thing that adds to the overall lack of pleasure in dealing with the new UI. Every time I go to open it (after automatically looking where the ships and container icons used to be) the momentary confusion as my brain sells adapt to the new reality, then the mournful sigh as I have to open the new UI....
Its death by a thousand cuts dealing with it...
Tal
|
Vynxar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 21:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
The new inventory make me want to cry I liked the old multiple windows one it was really easy to see thing and open the window you want. I hate their new listed all in one get rid of the complicated one but efficient inventory. |
Mutaat
Gallente Trade Union Paradigm Shift Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 23:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
For me, the new inventory system is a terrible setback, so much so that it affects the client performance and overall game play. Here is how I interact (fight) with it:
Salvaging. I run 2 clients on the same machine (two 26" 1920x1200 resolution on a single 560 nivida card) graphics are set to medium for both clients and I have never had FPS issues until the new bug known as the unified inventory was introduced to the game. running the mission is fine in the DPS battleship. When the room is cleared, I bring in a T2 fit noctis and start tractoring in wrecks. As the wreck get in range I start salvaging; rinse and repeat till all wrecks are gone. As the cans start to pile up I start to open them for the loot. So far, everything is fine up until I start opening cans, then all hell breaks loose. double clicking on a can will pause the client for up to second and half. I am not talking about taking that long to open the can, but the client stutters and I and not interact with it. I can visibly see the incoming wrecks slowing down as the client 'stutters'. Looting 40 cans used to take maybe 1min. It now takes around 8-10. Sometimes double clicking on a can will do nothing and it must be 'opened' several times.
I have petitioned this in game, but judging from CCP's almost complete lack of response to the hundreds of posts about this issue, I expect nothing less then a blow off.
This is flaw in the game, and I reported it as a bug. It should be looked at this way, and only have the hope that CCP will honor their promise to address customer issues.
Mut |
Mutaat
Gallente Trade Union Paradigm Shift Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 23:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
just quick follow up on how I know this issue is specifically related to the new U-inventory. When the Noctis client is stuttering and freezing, the client with the BS is in the next mission room and running just fine. |
DooDoo Gum
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 23:35:00 -
[60] - Quote
Saturn Boomer wrote:I personally like the new inventory system, much more tidy and easy to organise my assets. I agree it could be improved but rome wasn't built in a day.
Despite what people say CCP are working on the EVE UI and imho it's time well spent, looks like they are moving on from adding stupid things like the station spinner and concentrating on things that need attention.
Stop moaning about stupid little things and having a dig at CCP every time they do something you don't agree with, you still pay your monthly subscription so things can't be that bad.
-Boomer
ahem... 'adding' things like station spinner ????
i do believe the so-called 'adding' of the station spinner was actually a reversion of one of the other major screw-up's on ccp's behalf... |
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