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Nova Kusoni
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.06.24 14:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, after having read through this book for the first time now, I still have one question burning on my mind... Who is the Jovian we see in the final excerpt, drifting his eidolon towards EVE?
My first idea was that this jovian is infact The Broker, it is mentioned however that he feels no emotions, only physical pain, which would not make sense considering the rage of the broker when he destroyed the gallente spy network.
On the other hand, the broker being a Jovian would explain most of his personality, not to mention that the 'jovian disease' seems to sound alot like the disease the broker has, genetic in nature.
Perhaps insorum will one day cure the joves from their disease aswell? |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
635
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Posted - 2012.06.24 16:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
If Insorum could cure Jovians of their disease, I highly doubt only a single Jovian would come calling. |
Lingfei Wen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.24 17:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nova Kusoni wrote:So, after having read through this book for the first time now, I still have one question burning on my mind... Who is the Jovian we see in the final excerpt, drifting his eidolon towards EVE?
My first idea was that this jovian is infact The Broker, it is mentioned however that he feels no emotions, only physical pain, which would not make sense considering the rage of the broker when he destroyed the gallente spy network.
On the other hand, the broker being a Jovian would explain most of his personality, not to mention that the 'jovian disease' seems to sound alot like the disease the broker has, genetic in nature.
Perhaps insorum will one day cure the joves from their disease aswell?
In the short story "Theodicy", they introduce a term called "Enheduanne"(i dunno whether i spell it right), which is enemy of Jove. An more advanced "species"(they mutate and not human any more), which aims at "guiding the human history". I thought the Broken is one of them rather than jovian.
Jovian disease is caused by genetic engineering, seems no relation with Vitoc |
Osmus Ostus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.06.24 17:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:If Insorum could cure Jovians of their disease, I highly doubt only a single Jovian would come calling.
That makes sense, didn't think of it that way yet |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
115
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Posted - 2012.06.24 19:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
It's been sometime since I read the Empyrean Age but I remember having no question in my mind that the Broke had a Vitoc addiction. Now that I think about it, however, why would do that thing he did at the end of that other book that would be a spoiler if I mentioned it if he could have simple just kept taking Vitoc? |
Lingfei Wen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.24 20:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
David Forge wrote:It's been sometime since I read the Empyrean Age but I remember having no question in my mind that the Broke had a Vitoc addiction. Now that I think about it, however, why would do that thing he did at the end of that other book that would be a spoiler if I mentioned it if he could have simple just kept taking Vitoc? Even he has Vitoc addiction, he need not to buy out insorum. He can be everyone, so he can even get it for free. |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
115
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Posted - 2012.06.24 20:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
That's what I mean which is why I'm now wondering about the whole thing. Is there some complication caused by Vitoc use and cloning that we don't know about (since Vitoc is usually used on slaves who obviously do not have clones)? |
Lingfei Wen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.24 20:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Thats also possible.
Or What if he only wants to control some targets or even some fractions by Vitoc? For those target, getting continuous supply of Vitoc may be not a problem. But if there are vaccines, they could do everything for it. Thats the reason why he needs to be the only owner of insorum |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
115
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Posted - 2012.06.24 21:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think the book was pretty clear that he needed Insorum to heal him and his clones of something. Since it was made to deal with Vitoc addiction it makes sense that that is what he needed to be cured of. Then it gets weird because a) if he never got the formula he could have (presumably) kept using Vitoc and b) once it was released to the Minmatar (and the Broker knew that that was Otro Gariushi's intention) surely he would have been able to procure some. There's never any hint that he needs to control it, just that he needs to use it. If that's all though his reaction seems pretty illogical and his later fate rather puzzling. |
Esna Pitoojee
The Peerage Amarr 7th Fleet
74
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Posted - 2012.06.24 21:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
The first thing you have to do is understand and accept that there is a LOT of stuff in The Empyrean Age which does not jive with the rest of the lore, or even make sense within the novel itself.
Now, first: It's important to understand that Insorum DOES NOT clear the psychological desire to experience the incredible high Vitoc provides, nor does it nullify the immediate psychological effects of Vitoc (extreme suggestibility, talking constantly, loss of fear). By the way, don't ask me how someone became an interstellar crime lord when he was regularly loosing all fear and inhibition to talk about anything at least once every couple days - it's one of those things that doesn't make sense.
What Insorum DOES do is cleanse the body of the Vitoxin, the toxin-producing virus that the Vitoc antidote is normally taken to counteract. While Vitoc is a temporary solution to the toxin and has the numerous side effects noted above, Insorum is a largely side-effect-free immediate solution to ALL Vitoxin infestation.
The next thing you have to understand is that the Vitoxin does not normally follow someone from clone to clone; this is an exceedingly rare mutation involving an unusual retro-viral form of Vitoxin. Aside from the Broker, this variant is only known to be produced in extremely controlled experiments within Republic labs.
David Forge wrote: That's what I mean which is why I'm now wondering about the whole thing. Is there some complication caused by Vitoc use and cloning that we don't know about (since Vitoc is usually used on slaves who obviously do not have clones)?
Typically, cloning purges the body of all Vitoxin infestation; thus, continued use of Vitoc would be unnecessary. If the Broker is indeed infected with the retro-viral form, then he MUST have been infected prior to whenever he started cloning himself around. Otherwise, a "clean" sample of DNA taken before infection by the retro-viral Vitoxin could just be used to create "clean" form - problem solved. |
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David Forge
Forge Enterprises
115
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Posted - 2012.06.24 22:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Okay, I follow so far. I had know idea about the retro-viral form of the Vitoxin. As you pointed out, this makes his need for Insorum much clearer. Once the virus was integrated as part of his DNA then escaping through cloning becomes impossible. It also introduces the question of how the Broker was infected so early in life. Was he a slave? Perhaps he worked for the Republic and was exposed? There's a story there.
What remains unclear is the way in which the Broker acted. Continually taking Vitoc might not be an acceptable solution due to the side-effects (both immediate and those from long-term use) but once Insorum was available for slaves and former slaves he could have got hold of some then. It's puzzling. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
635
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Posted - 2012.06.24 22:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Maybe he wasn't just satisfied with cleansing himself. Maybe he wanted control of it too. |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
115
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Posted - 2012.06.24 22:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
A man like the Broker surely valued his life enough to give up a business opportunity. |
Lingfei Wen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.25 07:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
I read that page. It's on chapter 57.
I think it's related to Jovian disease. He may not be one of the Jovians, he may be repeating the Jovian's mistake.
Considering the Vitoc may not be a toxic compound originally, but a treatment to it with sideeffect. Jove probably got involved in "improving" the toxin and let new Eden find solutions for them.
M what broker wanna buy is the schematic, and do not want to expose his weakness |
Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
155
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Posted - 2012.06.25 07:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Didn't the Broker have the ability besides mimicing anyone's appearance to have numerous clones active simultaneously? Perhaps he was seeking the Insorum to counteract some unknown condition from having these fragmented sections of himself running around the universe. Or perhaps a centralized "brain" required Insorum for survival while controlling these clones; so as the brain died, so did his ability to keep the clones going.
Good topic. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
71
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Posted - 2012.06.26 22:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nova Kusoni wrote:So, after having read through this book for the first time now, I still have one question burning on my mind... Who is the Jovian we see in the final excerpt, drifting his eidolon towards EVE?
My first idea was that this jovian is infact The Broker, it is mentioned however that he feels no emotions, only physical pain, which would not make sense considering the rage of the broker when he destroyed the gallente spy network.
On the other hand, the broker being a Jovian would explain most of his personality, not to mention that the 'jovian disease' seems to sound alot like the disease the broker has, genetic in nature.
Perhaps insorum will one day cure the joves from their disease aswell?
About the jovian on the Eidolon: His name is Grious. You will read more about him if you read Templar One. In case you won't, read at the end of this post.
About the Broker being Jovian: Hardly. As you said, he have plenty of unjovian emotions. Also, he's really surprised about the disease he has contracted, and suspects that it's due to some malfunctioning of his cloning tech. This wouldn't make sense at all if he is jovian, in which case he would be very aware of the possibility of being hit by the jove disease. Also, the jove disease is of psichological nature, while the Brokers' disease seems to be only physical.
About the Vitoc: Acording to the book, The Broker uses Vitoc to slow down the advance of the disease that is killing him. He's not adicted per se, he uses it as a vaccine for the unknown disease, but aparently he has come to know that if he gets the insorum, he will be healed from both the vitoc adiction and the unknown disease.
Lingfei Wen wrote:David Forge wrote:It's been sometime since I read the Empyrean Age but I remember having no question in my mind that the Broke had a Vitoc addiction. Now that I think about it, however, why would do that thing he did at the end of that other book that would be a spoiler if I mentioned it if he could have simple just kept taking Vitoc? Even he has Vitoc addiction, he need not to buy out insorum. He can be everyone, so he can even get it for free.
He didn't knew that the minmatars were going to get it anyway, and he died before/didnt have time to get a sample after it being released to the public. He couldnt just keep taking vitoc because vitoc was slowing the disease, not stopping it completely.
David Forge wrote:Then it gets weird because a) if he never got the formula he could have (presumably) kept using Vitoc and b) once it was released to the Minmatar (and the Broker knew that that was Otro Gariushi's intention) surely he would have been able to procure some. There's never any hint that he needs to control it, just that he needs to use it. If that's all though his reaction seems pretty illogical and his later fate rather puzzling.
Like I said, he actually does keep taking vitoc, but that doesn't stop the disease from killing him. Just make him last a bit longer. Like AIDS I guess. About Otro, yes, he knows, but what he doesn't know is that when he slams the Nyx into Otro's station, the Insorum is still accesible. He thinks that with Otro's death, it's lost and he will never be able to get it again (a stupid move from him to kill Otro, but understandable seeing how furious he was about it).
You're rigth about that he could have just waited for the minmatars to release it... But consider that he was dying really fast. In fact, he dies before being able to take action after the Elders use the Insorum. And that even when the Elders boldly started his massrescue plan as soon as they had enough Insorum. It could have been much more longer if the Elders just decided to wait. Too much for The Broker to wait for.
Now about Grious: ATTENTION, TEMPLAR ONE SPOILERS
He is a jovian who put himself at the service of The Other, an AI construct made by the Architects (now known as the Sleepers) to test their virtual reality tech, and who now resides on Jamyl Sarum's mind. Ultimately, he tries to stop Marcus Jror from delivering the DUST tech to Jamyl Sarum, but fails to do it in time, and is killed by the loyal jovians. After that, he repents and helps (in the form of an AI projection) Marcus Jror to stop the mess he has created giving the DUST tech only to Amarr. |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
115
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Posted - 2012.06.26 22:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thanks, this is all beginning to make more sense. |
Fernando Quiniola
Little Tactical Control NZAU Alliance
4
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Posted - 2012.07.25 01:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Esna, thank you for clearing everything up (up to spoilers). That was helpful. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
79
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Posted - 2012.07.25 16:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Esna Pitoojee wrote:The first thing you have to do is understand and accept that there is a LOT of stuff in The Empyrean Age which does not jive with the rest of the lore, or even make sense within the novel itself.
I would gladly try to counter-argue those points that you claim to be contradictory. |
Adam Junior
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
12
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Posted - 2012.07.27 10:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Grious is not a new character: he's introduced in Theodicy before Vak'Atioth.
http://community.eveonline.com/races/theodicy/
Very good read and it should answer quite a few questions, it is by Tony Gonzales as well. |
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Lingfei Wen
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.28 15:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
I always think that theodicy is a fiction which is good-size to be a movie something |
Evil Cleaner
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.08.10 23:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:If Insorum could cure Jovians of their disease, I highly doubt only a single Jovian would come calling.
This could be part of a new storyline that can change the cluster forever. Say a cure has been found but it is located only in high sec and Jove's have to fly there in small groups to get it. If the players allow them to get it they could open up a few Jove systems and Allow docking at their stations complete with agents ,Or they laugh at us and destroy a few systems. Then again we could destroy them due to rumors that were spread around that they might attack the 4 nations. I think this would be a great opportunity for CCP to build a good expansion. |
Qvar Dar'Zanar
EVE University Ivy League
83
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Posted - 2012.08.11 17:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Small groups? Turns out the Jove didn't read the "100 things I'll do when I become the Evil Overlord". If your race is slow and painfully dying, I hope you will come in full force to put an end to it NOW and FOREVER. |
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