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Bibosikus
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Posted - 2010.01.23 09:27:00 -
[1]
I've G**gled till my eyes have bled, trying to find any thread or guide that explains in laymans terms what the adantages are of training to Salvaging lvl 5, and using T2 salvagers, might be.
Since this infamous "AccessDifficultyBonus" attribute is such a complete misnomer, can anyone out there please convert it into something more realistic, like "average time to successfully salvage a T1 wreck"? Failing that, can anyone post the supposed advantages of having a salvaging alt in, say, lvl 4 missions, who went from a T1 to T2 set of salvaging mods? Did it make a difference?
Is it, in a nutshell, worth training Salvaging to level 5 for a salvaging alt?
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PStuckey
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Posted - 2010.01.23 09:50:00 -
[2]
if you plan on doing WHs, i would say salv 5 is a must. not sure about lvl4s though. when i throw 5 salvagers on a single wreck, they usually disappear pretty quick.
that being said... if its for an alt character, sure, train it up. but if its for your main, im guessing there are other skills you could train to make the mission itself go faster.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.01.23 10:36:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 23/01/2010 10:43:35 (edit)The way I understand access difficulty bonus is that each wreck has a predetermined chance to be salvaged successfully (per cycle). The salvager module increases that chance naturally, and your skills / rigs also increase it by the given amount. (edit2)some wrecks also require a certain level of salvaging skill trained, but very few* require lvl 5
Salvaging 5 is worth training if you don't use many salvaging modules. ie: you do exploration sites or use a marauder or have a spare salvager on your mission ship, etc. A dedicated salvage ship with rigs and all will salvage fast enough anyway even with level 3-4.
BTW, the skill description is plain wrong. If you want to know what the skill actually does, it's 100% to access difficulty of salvager modules per level. That means that it technically does nothing at level 1 other than be a prerequisite to use salvagers.
*Some high level sleeper wrecks require salvage 5 to access, from what I have heard, so other than that you can get by with 4 (but you may still have a tough time with some T2/faction wrecks).
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.01.23 10:47:00 -
[4]
raw access bonus is impressive. range bonus is less so, but still helpful. salvage rigs reduce effective difference.
T1 salvager (5km range, 5% per level = 20% at L4) T2 salvager (6km range, 7% per level = 35% at L5)
T1 salvager with 3 T1 rigs = 50% T2 salvager with 3 T1 rigs = 65%
at face value, 100 wrecks, single salvager: L4 T1 = 500 seconds (100/0.20) 8.33 min L5 T2 = 285 seconds (100/0.35) 4.76 min L4 T1+rigs = 200 seconds (100/0.50) 3.33 min L5 T2+rigs = 153 seconds (100/0.65) 2.55 min
numbers assume all wrecks on heap. with scattered wrecks, difference would be less (but still) in favor of T2. with tougher-to-salvage wrecks, advantage goes to T2.
whether you want T2 salvagers is dependent on how you salvage. marauder that salvages on the run will benefit from T2 (T1 being much inferior without rigs). dedicated salvage boat might get away with L4 skill, but full rigs. imo, anyone that does heavy salvaging is better off with T2.
________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel |
Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2010.01.23 15:08:00 -
[5]
The way the modules work has already been explained. Every container (wreck, hacking container at a radar site, archaeology container at a magnetometric site, etc.) has an innate modifier to the access chance. You take your normal access chance and add or subtract this modifier. If the final modified chance is greater than zero, you get the resulting chance per cycle to access the container. If the modified chance is zero or below you get the message that the container is beyond your skills.
Faction ship and officer ships have a natural -10% access modifier on their wrecks. Thus, you need Salvaging 3 minimum to access those wrecks (3 * 5% = 15% - 10% = 5% final chance). Advanced sleeper wrecks are -20%. Salvaging 5 with Salvager Is would leave you a final 5% chance per cycle to access that wreck. Salvaging 5 with Salvager IIs would leave you with 15% per cycle. Salvaging 4 and a single Salvage Tackle I rig (+10%) would leave you a 10% chance per cycle.
It's also important to note that the rigs work differently for Salvagers than they do for Codebreakers and Analyzers. Salvage Tackle rigs give you a flat bonus to the percentage. The others give (I believe) a multiplier. I think this is how it works out:
Salvager II with 1 Salvage Tackle I rig : 35% for the module and skill +10% for the rig = 45%. Codebreaker II with 1 Memetic Algorithm Bank I rig: 35% for the module and skill plus 20% of 35 = 43% ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
r3333
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:37:00 -
[6]
I don't mean to threadjack here but can anyone suggest a decent dedi salvager build? rigs an all?
Thanks
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Diomidis
Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.23 19:08:00 -
[7]
For heavy looting along with salvaging: cane, or another BC (will get less cargospace)
Quote: [Hurricane, Salvager] Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II
10MN Afterburner II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II
Medium Salvage Tackle I Medium Salvage Tackle I Medium Salvage Tackle I
Or the less expensive/more agile/less cargohold/less cap version of a Destroyer - like the thrasher:
Quote: [Thrasher, Salvager] Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II
1MN MicroWarpdrive II Cap Recharger II 1MN Afterburner II
Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I Salvager I Salvager I
Small Salvage Tackle I Small Salvage Tackle I Small Salvage Tackle I
Yes, you can use only one prop mod for more cap rechargers and free some CPU for T2 salvagers...it's not optimal, but it's a very good start...
Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
r3333
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Posted - 2010.01.23 19:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Diomidis
Wow thanks alot!
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SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.01.24 07:40:00 -
[9]
In reply to diomidis' hurricane fit:
I recommend ditching the AB, and use a MWD instead. (bookmark mission, hand in mission when done, return in your salvage ship. This is for 1 account/pilot use ofc). This way you can always use MWD cuz the deadspace will disappear after mission handin.
Also if you have lvl5 salvaging skill and T2 salvagers, if you are just doing lvl4 missions then I personally think it's better to use cargohold expander rigs instead of salvage tackle rigs because I hate having to return to station halfway through cuz of full cargohold.
With 2 cargohold expander rigs the hurricane can take on 95% of all lvl4 missions in 1 go without having to drop off salvage+loot.
Ofc if you cba to do this another option would be to keep the salvage tackle rigs and simply selectively choose loot (jettisson useless high volume loot as soon as your cargo gets full)
But yes, the hurricane is the BEST lvl4 mission salvage+loot ship because it has most cargohold of all BC's and its fast(est) too. __________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.01.24 11:45:00 -
[10]
double propulsion is not bad. sometimes you might want to salvage while mission is running. it just shows that both can be fitted and used (just not at the same time).
more cargo or more salvage chance is mostly preference. dragging a jetcan in which you toss all the loot makes cargo space irrelevant (especially in destroyer, where you might want cap regen or speed), and all of it can be later collected by industrial, or just pick valuables and drop rest. it really is circumstantial.
________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel |
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Dabljuh
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Posted - 2010.01.24 13:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Diomidis Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II
Wrong. If you have salvaging skills worth a damn - and using Salvager IIs implies that you do - and even more so when using rigs - Your salvagers will be much much faster at destroying wrecks than your tractor beams will be at bringing them into range. This here is the correct layout:
Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Salvager II
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2010.01.24 23:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Bibosikus
Is it, in a nutshell, worth training Salvaging to level 5 for a salvaging alt?
For an alt? Most definitely. I finally trained my salvage alt to V not that long ago, and there is a huge difference in missed cycles.
Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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Bibosikus
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Posted - 2010.01.25 04:08:00 -
[13]
Thanks for the info folks. Alt now training V
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cajun azn
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Posted - 2010.02.24 04:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes raw access bonus is impressive. range bonus is less so, but still helpful. salvage rigs reduce effective difference.
T1 salvager (5km range, 5% per level = 20% at L4) T2 salvager (6km range, 7% per level = 35% at L5)
T1 salvager with 3 T1 rigs = 50% T2 salvager with 3 T1 rigs = 65%
at face value, 100 wrecks, single salvager: L4 T1 = 500 seconds (100/0.20) 8.33 min L5 T2 = 285 seconds (100/0.35) 4.76 min L4 T1+rigs = 200 seconds (100/0.50) 3.33 min L5 T2+rigs = 153 seconds (100/0.65) 2.55 min
numbers assume all wrecks on heap. with scattered wrecks, difference would be less (but still) in favor of T2. with tougher-to-salvage wrecks, advantage goes to T2.
whether you want T2 salvagers is dependent on how you salvage. marauder that salvages on the run will benefit from T2 (T1 being much inferior without rigs). dedicated salvage boat might get away with L4 skill, but full rigs. imo, anyone that does heavy salvaging is better off with T2.
So let's see if we can check the math ... for example, say we're using T1 salvager at L4 Prob of success = p = 20% Prob(success on n-th try) = (1-p)^(n-1) * p Prob(success <= j-th try) = Prob(n=1) + Prob(n=2) + ... + Prob(n=j)
Can anyone verify this?
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L'Petit Object
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Posted - 2010.02.24 18:03:00 -
[15]
No one mentions cormorant for salvaging? Does it have grid issues with salvager II's?
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Ravella
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Posted - 2010.02.24 18:24:00 -
[16]
for dual boxing peeps
Orca w/ 3x tractor beams I-Stab II's 100mn AB (to close in on wrecks outside the 70km range) Salvager Catalyst,Coercer,Thrasher,Cormorant 7x Salvager II's, 1x Auto targeter (nets you 10x targets to feed the salvagers) Ball up the Wrecks and destroy them enmasse w/ the Destroyer whilst tossing all the loots in the corp hangar, or cargohold your choice |
Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2010.02.24 19:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: L'Petit Object No one mentions cormorant for salvaging? Does it have grid issues with salvager II's?
There are really two ways to salvage: grab salvage only or loot + salvage. Aside from metal scraps, salvage is tiny. You don't need a huge cargo hold if all you do is salvage. It can be faster to use a fast frigate to salvage since you can move faster than tractor beams can drag wrecks to you. If you're looting and salvaging, then cargo capacity becomes a major concern, and that's where the battlecruisers shine.
The Hurricane is so popular for a reason; it has the highest potential cargo hold of any such ship, while still being comparatively fast and maneuverable because it's a Minmatar vessel. Only destroyers, battlecruiser, and battleships have 8 high slots. Battleships are slow and ponderous, destroyers have small cargo holds, while the battlecruiser mix the advantages of both.
Now, if you're using another ship to make wreck balls so no travel at all is required, and have a ship picking up the loot, a salvage destroyer with 8 salvagers will just chew them up. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.24 19:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: cajun azn ...
Can anyone verify this?
nice graph. yeah, i think that is correct. except for success chances never reaching 100%, tho i assume that is rounding. it clearly shows superiority of T2 over T1, and usefulness of rigging. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel |
Kenz Rider
J Club
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Posted - 2010.02.24 21:44:00 -
[19]
[Hurricane, Salvacane] 6x Expanded Cargohold 10MN Afterburner 10MN MicroWarpdrive Large Cap Battery (w/e meta you can find) Cap Recharger II
5x Small Tractor Beam I 3x Salvager I
Medium Salvage Tackle Medium Cargohold Optimization Medium Cargohold Optimization
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cajun azn
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Posted - 2010.02.25 02:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Originally by: cajun azn ...
Can anyone verify this?
... except for success chances never reaching 100%, tho i assume that is rounding...
Precisely. Thanks!
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Forge Trader
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Posted - 2010.02.25 02:24:00 -
[21]
Lvl 5 skills and T2 salvager helps a lot during ninja ratting missions, where my covops alt gets us there relatively safely, and is fitted with one salvager.
Many times you really need to get done and gtfo. Trying to salvage in 0.0 with one T1 salvager is like continually walking on thin ice. You are constantly waiting for the ice to break and you to get ganked or at least interrupted before you can salvage.
Highly recommend Salvager II for these situations.
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