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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1596
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 02:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
it is a failed experiment. you are losing more money than you are saving by continuing to let power mad players run roughshod over your paying customers in such a haphazard fashion.
Shameful display of customer service I strongly recommend you rectify the situation before they do any more damage to your company
"You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2134
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 02:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
At least the CCL (forum mods). The ISDs are fine in the rookie/help chats (though they give terrible advice and don't know the mechanics they're trying to explain). This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
RAGE QU1T
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 02:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1596
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 02:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
an applicable quote
"you were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe not destroy it!" "You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 02:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Morganta wrote:an applicable quote
"you were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe not destroy it!"
I agree. It needs to be dissolved and recreated more transparently and with more input from us. |
Burzrujat
Natural Talent
11
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 02:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't think you mean the entire ISD. Just the CCL. To be fair not all of them are horrible, there seems to be a few trigger-happy individuals that make the rest of them look bad. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2134
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 02:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote:recreated
I'd be fine with not. It's still the type of people who Volunteer at a For-Profit This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Charles Baker
Federal Mineral Acquisition
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 02:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Please leave them alone, they generate such tears. |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Agreed. Get rid of these mouthbreathing simps. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
587
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
I am pretty certain that this is not the petition section of the forums. However if you feel strongly enough about this, perhaps you should send an email to the appropriate people.
You may find these links helpful
Rules and Policies
About contacting customer support
Website terms of use agreement
Hopefully that helps. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
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Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1598
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Jason Marshall wrote:recreated I'd be fine with not. It's still the type of people who Volunteer at a For-Profit
I'm kind of wanting to know if they are paying customers or PLEXers
kind of silly letting free play types run your income stream off to another game
"You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
884
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
What they need is to actually take action when one is abusing their power. Its fine to use volunteers if you are willing to remove the volunteer when things get out of hand.
And the chat channel ISDs are very important, at least for keeping spam out (since we lesser folks can't actually do anything about it). |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
396
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bucking for a position on the ISD? Nothing Found |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
587
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Bucking for a position on the ISD?
Just being helpful, and you are welcome. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2134
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Bucking for a position on the ISD?
He already has one. [/tinfoil] This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
587
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Bucking for a position on the ISD? He already has one.
Have you seen my posting history?
Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1600
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Bucking for a position on the ISD? Just being helpful, and you are welcome.
I'm pretty sure I'm aware of the rules after being a fixture here for the last couple of years. of course I'm no Chribba or mittens, but I'd like to think I know what I'm doing
"You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Morganta wrote:you are losing more money than you are saving
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think ISDs are paid, they are volunteers. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2134
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Celeste Taylor wrote:Morganta wrote:you are losing more money than you are saving Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think ISDs are paid, they are volunteers.
Thus "saving money" at the expense of alienating their players. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
884
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
One thing that would go a long way towards better moderation would be if the ISDs invited us to contact them (through EVE mail) if we felt they did something wrongly. That way we could have a nice little discussion and maybe both the volunteers and the forum folks could learn a bit about each other (including how to better serve the community).
Instead we get one liners with no opening for explanation, because we can't discuss moderation on the forums. |
|
Cerebral Wolf
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
How can you create a petition and get players to sign and agree to it if you have to do it in a personal email?....
The forum makes much more sense, funny how the rules how are set up so thats not possible though. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1602
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:One thing that would go a long way towards better moderation would be if the ISDs invited us to contact them (through EVE mail) if we felt they did something wrongly. That way we could have a nice little discussion and maybe both the volunteers and the forum folks could learn a bit about each other (including how to better serve the community).
Instead we get one liners with no opening for explanation, because we can't discuss moderation on the forums.
hell, Stesson charged me a CSPA fee to try and PM him and then totally ignored the issue when I called him on it, giving me some blather about them overstepping their mandate...
"You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
306
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'd actually petitioned before the lockfest this morning predicting carnage.
Guess what? It happened! EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Cerebral Wolf
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
They must know all the in's and out's of the community then if they know its normal for us to leave CSPA charges on. We're clearly all wrong, they know everything. |
Information Agent
Apparently Miners
76
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.
ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.
Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy. |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:*Some post that is incredibly ******* stupid*
0/10 |
Information Agent
Apparently Miners
76
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Joe Everyguy wrote:Information Agent wrote:*Some post that is incredibly ******* stupid* 0/10
Hey, you put more effort into editting my post than you did making one yourself, shirley is waiting for you I think. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
884
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.
ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.
Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy. The ISDs in the channels (who mostly are awesome and very helpful in keeping the peace) are not the same ones from the forums. In fact, IIRC they can't even moderate the forums. |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:*Yet more stupidity and shitposting*
Sure, kid. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
434
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Morganta wrote:it is a failed experiment. you are losing more money than you are saving by continuing to let power mad players run roughshod over your paying customers in such a haphazard fashion.
Shameful display of customer service I strongly recommend you rectify the situation before they do any more damage to your company
i suggest rather then complain about it you seem to read the forums alot why not moderate it yourself?
do the job they are meant to do by fixing posts and what not so that they conform to forum rules and if they dont lock the thread... but a locked thread should have to be approved by more then one isd... PLEX FOR PIZZA! -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
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Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1602
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.
ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.
Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy.
yup, I'm a basement dweller, that's why I can set my own hours and post on the forums whenever I feel like it, day or night oh and I'm 44, and mom has been begging me to move in so she can spend 6 months a year in the 2nd house in Jamaica without having to worry about the house or roommates to look after it.
but keep on going, you're on a roll
"You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
153
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
We need people like ISD inside game, they very helpful to newbis to moderate rooki chats etc, but some of them got to much rights while they not objective as they should be, some of them feels like CCP devs or somthin very close to them. Probably some of them just showing on forum becuse of look at me im ISD... Teemo for president. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
588
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Information Agent wrote:Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.
ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.
Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy. The ISDs in the channels (who mostly are awesome and very helpful in keeping the peace) are not the same ones from the forums. In fact, IIRC they can't even moderate the forums.
They are however, all governed by the same rules and are answerable to CCP for their actions. This is why they will not communicate with players about their moderation duties. It is for CCP to decide if any action taken by a member of its staff, voluntary or otherwise, is appropriate. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Information Agent
Apparently Miners
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
Morganta wrote: yup, I'm a basement dweller, that's why I can set my own hours and post on the forums whenever I feel like it, day or night oh and I'm 44, and mom has been begging me to move in so she can spend 6 months a year in the 2nd house in Jamaica without having to worry about the house or roommates to look after it.
but keep on going, you're on a roll
Well gee, I guess had you read my post correctly then ya wouldn't be assuming I was talking about you now. You know who I was talking about, the forum warriors, the idiots who derail every thread going, the ones who use spam threads to push the valid ones out of sight. |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
Information Agent wrote: Well gee, I guess had you read my post correctly then ya wouldn't be assuming I was talking about you now. You know who I was talking about, the forum warriors, the idiots who derail every thread going, the ones who use spam threads to push the valid ones out of sight.
How many times do you plan on shitposting in this thread? This is the 3rd shitpost, by my count. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
884
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:30:00 -
[36] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:Information Agent wrote:Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.
ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.
Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy. The ISDs in the channels (who mostly are awesome and very helpful in keeping the peace) are not the same ones from the forums. In fact, IIRC they can't even moderate the forums. They are however, all governed by the same rules and are answerable to CCP for their actions. This is why they will not communicate with players about their moderation duties. It is for CCP to decide if any action taken by a member of its staff, voluntary or otherwise, is appropriate. Of course. It woudl still be nice if an effort was made to reach out (on both sides) and have a nice chat. At least learning a little more than [insert one liner on lock]. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1604
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:32:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:Information Agent wrote:Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.
ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.
Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy. The ISDs in the channels (who mostly are awesome and very helpful in keeping the peace) are not the same ones from the forums. In fact, IIRC they can't even moderate the forums. They are however, all governed by the same rules and are answerable to CCP for their actions. This is why they will not communicate with players about their moderation duties. It is for CCP to decide if any action taken by a member of its staff, voluntary or otherwise, is appropriate.
is that before or after a CCP dev gives someone **** for an off topic post that was made off topic by ISD bungling the title?
sorry but that doesn't fly, CCP will step in only when enough people rattle their cage over the issue, petitions will be queued for weeks, more bad decisions will be made by people who don't understand what's being posted and more subscribers will leave in protest. Then when someone in accounting notices a problem somebody will step in. That's where the "forum guard" comes into play, we try to minimize the damage from CCPs bad decisions by alerting them to these issues in a loud, unruly and direct fashion.
We are the oil
"You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.
ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.
Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy.
No you cant say that. The ISD Forum moderators could be 6 month old power hungry twats. But volunteering for additional power around the forums doesn't seem very selfless to me.
We aren't mad that they are moderating we are mad because its so arbitrary and their isn't a clear guide they are following.
Again we cant be sure they all just arent really good at writing applications. Doesnt mean they know **** about eve or the community. |
Information Agent
Apparently Miners
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
Joe Everyguy wrote:Information Agent wrote: Well gee, I guess had you read my post correctly then ya wouldn't be assuming I was talking about you now. You know who I was talking about, the forum warriors, the idiots who derail every thread going, the ones who use spam threads to push the valid ones out of sight.
How many times do you plan on shitposting in this thread? This is the 3rd shitpost, by my count.
Well, at least in each of my posts Im actually addressing in my opinion a view or an action relating to the thread itself instead of just picking one person and taking sissy jabs at him, yet you of all people talk of shitposts. You probably don't even know what this thread is about and just came here becuase it has recent replies. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
592
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cerebral Wolf wrote:How can you create a petition and get players to sign and agree to it if you have to do it in a personal email?....
The forum makes much more sense, funny how the rules how are set up so thats not possible though.
Actually I believe the Assembly Hall section of the forums would suffice for that particular task
Assembly Hall
And a quote from the Sticky for that section
CCP Spitfire wrote: In this forum, any EVE player can raise an issue for debate.
The best and most supported of these issue threads are picked up by the CSM for debate. The issues that pass debate are bought to CCP, and if CCP consents, the issues get implemented into the game.
How it works: In order to raise an issue, simply create a new thread. In the title write a brief description and in the body, give as many details about your idea as possible. Any person replying to the thread can check a box to show support for the issue, which provides at-a-glance on the thread listing how supported an idea is. If a CSM member wants to raise an issue in a meeting, they are only allowed to select issues arising from threads in the Assembly hall, and only threads that are at least a week old.
Hopefully that helps. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
|
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2135
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.
ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.
Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy.
The ISDs in Rookie and Help chats are great (I mean, it's great that they volunteer, and their hearts are in the right place, they're not actually that good at giving good advice that I've seen).
The CCL ISDs who moderate the forums are the problem. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:*HURPAN and DERPAN yet again*.
You claim I'm making 'sissy jabs', but you're the mongoloid ****** that made the remark about being basement dwellers. Right, whatever you say. How's the weather on Bizzaro World, by the way? |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Cerebral Wolf wrote:How can you create a petition and get players to sign and agree to it if you have to do it in a personal email?....
The forum makes much more sense, funny how the rules how are set up so thats not possible though. Actually I believe the Assembly Hall section of the forums would suffice for that particular task Assembly HallAnd a quote from the Sticky for that section CCP Spitfire wrote: In this forum, any EVE player can raise an issue for debate.
The best and most supported of these issue threads are picked up by the CSM for debate. The issues that pass debate are bought to CCP, and if CCP consents, the issues get implemented into the game.
How it works: In order to raise an issue, simply create a new thread. In the title write a brief description and in the body, give as many details about your idea as possible. Any person replying to the thread can check a box to show support for the issue, which provides at-a-glance on the thread listing how supported an idea is. If a CSM member wants to raise an issue in a meeting, they are only allowed to select issues arising from threads in the Assembly hall, and only threads that are at least a week old.
Hopefully that helps.
Imagine if all the original CSM candidates had to run for election with the current volunteer team declaring their platforms spam. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
592
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:39:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote:Information Agent wrote:Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.
ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.
Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy. No you cant say that. The ISD Forum moderators could be 6 month old power hungry twats. But volunteering for additional power around the forums doesn't seem very selfless to me. We aren't mad that they are moderating we are mad because its so arbitrary and their isn't a clear guide they are following. Again we cant be sure they all just arent really good at writing applications. Doesnt mean they know **** about eve or the community.
You lack 99.9% of the facts required to hold a proper discussion on this subject and are currently running on rumour or bias. Here is a useful link regarding the ISD and their actions.
Volunteer Program
Enjoy!
Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Information Agent
Apparently Miners
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote: No you cant say that. The ISD Forum moderators could be 6 month old power hungry twats. But volunteering for additional power around the forums doesn't seem very selfless to me.
We aren't mad that they are moderating we are mad because its so arbitrary and their isn't a clear guide they are following.
Again we cant be sure they all just arent really good at writing applications. Doesnt mean they know **** about eve or the community.
Well, theres the thing, I'm almost 100% positive that both the ISD forum mods and the in game help guys are all bound to the same rules and codes of conduct. I always try to lean towards 'they did it because they wanted to help' since theres no monetry or physical reward involved, but I concour that I could be wrong about that for maybe a few that are just 'bad apples' and they hide it.
To be honest, additional 'power' in a forum doesnt sound like power to me, sounds like unpaid work. This sort of situation is a complicated one, but hopefully someone in the know will be able to put the whole thing straight. |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
I'm not convinced that Cutter Isaacson ISN'T an ISD alt. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1604
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
Joe Everyguy wrote:Information Agent wrote:*HURPAN and DERPAN yet again*. You claim I'm making 'sissy jabs', but you're the mongoloid ****** that made the remark about being basement dwellers. Right, whatever you say. How's the weather on Bizzaro World, by the way?
ignore him, hes just trying to give his buddies a legitimate excuse to lock this
"You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
Information Agent
Apparently Miners
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
Joe Everyguy wrote:Information Agent wrote:*HURPAN and DERPAN yet again*. You claim I'm making 'sissy jabs', but you're the mongoloid ****** that made the remark about being basement dwellers. Right, whatever you say. How's the weather on Bizzaro World, by the way?
Nice, resorting to personal insults now, you sound mad, I must have hit a nerve. |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:41:00 -
[49] - Quote
Morganta wrote:
ignore him, hes just trying to give his buddies a legitimate excuse to lock this
You are most likely correct sir/ma'am. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
592
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
Joe Everyguy wrote:I'm not convinced that Cutter Isaacson ISN'T an ISD alt.
Because I'm not **** posting and actually have a decent command of the English language? I'm just tired of seeing the same 4 or 5 names popping up on the front page of the forums whining about how they are a special little snowflake and how the big bad nasty ISD people are locking their content free crap threads. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
|
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:Information Agent wrote:*HURPAN and DERPAN yet again*. You claim I'm making 'sissy jabs', but you're the mongoloid ****** that made the remark about being basement dwellers. Right, whatever you say. How's the weather on Bizzaro World, by the way? Nice, resorting to personal insults now, you sound mad, I must have hit a nerve.
I ain't even close to mad. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2135
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:Jason Marshall wrote: No you cant say that. The ISD Forum moderators could be 6 month old power hungry twats. But volunteering for additional power around the forums doesn't seem very selfless to me.
We aren't mad that they are moderating we are mad because its so arbitrary and their isn't a clear guide they are following.
Again we cant be sure they all just arent really good at writing applications. Doesnt mean they know **** about eve or the community.
Well, theres the thing, I'm almost 100% positive that both the ISD forum mods and the in game help guys are all bound to the same rules and codes of conduct. I always try to lean towards 'they did it because they wanted to help' since theres no monetry or physical reward involved, but I concour that I could be wrong about that for maybe a few that are just 'bad apples' and they hide it. To be honest, additional 'power' in a forum doesnt sound like power to me, sounds like unpaid work. This sort of situation is a complicated one, but hopefully someone in the know will be able to put the whole thing straight.
One has power over the Forums and only has a mandate to moderate. One has power over the Rookie/Help channels and a mandate to help.
Give a man a Hammer, yadda yadda yadda. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:Jason Marshall wrote: No you cant say that. The ISD Forum moderators could be 6 month old power hungry twats. But volunteering for additional power around the forums doesn't seem very selfless to me.
We aren't mad that they are moderating we are mad because its so arbitrary and their isn't a clear guide they are following.
Again we cant be sure they all just arent really good at writing applications. Doesnt mean they know **** about eve or the community.
Well, theres the thing, I'm almost 100% positive that both the ISD forum mods and the in game help guys are all bound to the same rules and codes of conduct. I always try to lean towards 'they did it because they wanted to help' since theres no monetry or physical reward involved, but I concour that I could be wrong about that for maybe a few that are just 'bad apples' and they hide it. To be honest, additional 'power' in a forum doesnt sound like power to me, sounds like unpaid work. This sort of situation is a complicated one, but hopefully someone in the know will be able to put the whole thing straight.
You don't seem to understand how petty some people can be and how widley varied the defenition of power can be.
Its not work. At all. They arent bound to spend x number of hours moderating the forums.
The best moderation for a community like eve would be a mix of active dev and GMs combined with 4-5 veteran eve players in every major timezone who are browsing the forums anyways. That way its not working for free and they never feel like they are entitled to anything for it. They are just browsing and participating in the community like they would anyother night. But now instead of hitting "report" on a post or thread they think breaks the rules they lock it and move on. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2135
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:I'm not convinced that Cutter Isaacson ISN'T an ISD alt. Because I'm not **** posting and actually have a decent command of the English language? I'm just tired of seeing the same 4 or 5 names popping up on the front page of the forums whining about how they are a special little snowflake and how the big bad nasty ISD people are locking their content free crap threads.
If they hadn't been locking/editing our content-filled posts, we wouldn't have started this. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Cerebral Wolf
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:I'm not convinced that Cutter Isaacson ISN'T an ISD alt. Because I'm not **** posting and actually have a decent command of the English language? I'm just tired of seeing the same 4 or 5 names popping up on the front page of the forums whining about how they are a special little snowflake and how the big bad nasty ISD people are locking their content free crap threads.
They are not all content free though, that's the issue. |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Jason Marshall wrote:Information Agent wrote:Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.
ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.
Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy. No you cant say that. The ISD Forum moderators could be 6 month old power hungry twats. But volunteering for additional power around the forums doesn't seem very selfless to me. We aren't mad that they are moderating we are mad because its so arbitrary and their isn't a clear guide they are following. Again we cant be sure they all just arent really good at writing applications. Doesnt mean they know **** about eve or the community. You lack 99.9% of the facts required to hold a proper discussion on this subject and are currently running on rumour or bias. Here is a useful link regarding the ISD and their actions. Volunteer ProgramEnjoy!
Disregarding the years ive spent in this community and using a line just from the link you posted is about all I need to justify most of what ive said.
"To apply for a position within ISD you need to be 18 or over and hold an active subscribed account in EVE Online." |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1476
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
Hello. Whats goin- Locked for no content- |
Information Agent
Apparently Miners
78
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:49:00 -
[58] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:I'm not convinced that Cutter Isaacson ISN'T an ISD alt. Because I'm not **** posting and actually have a decent command of the English language? I'm just tired of seeing the same 4 or 5 names popping up on the front page of the forums whining about how they are a special little snowflake and how the big bad nasty ISD people are locking their content free crap threads. If they hadn't been locking/editing our content-filled posts, we wouldn't have started this.
Most of the threads that got locked were random garbage at best, the others degenerated into random garbage after a few replies which was a shame as some actually had some interesting posts in. If there was any valid 'content' in there though its headed the same way as the 'outrage over goons exploit' threads, probably 4 pages back by now. |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jake Warbird wrote:Hello. Whats goin- Locked for no content-
I tapped, dropped the Championship title, went to TNA and became a victim of Russonomics. |
Cerebral Wolf
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:51:00 -
[60] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:I'm not convinced that Cutter Isaacson ISN'T an ISD alt. Because I'm not **** posting and actually have a decent command of the English language? I'm just tired of seeing the same 4 or 5 names popping up on the front page of the forums whining about how they are a special little snowflake and how the big bad nasty ISD people are locking their content free crap threads. If they hadn't been locking/editing our content-filled posts, we wouldn't have started this. Most of the threads that got locked were random garbage at best, the others degenerated into random garbage after a few replies which was a shame as some actually had some interesting posts in. If there was any valid 'content' in there though its headed the same way as the 'outrage over goons exploit' threads, probably 4 pages back by now.
Then a good mod hits the idiots derailing it over the head with something big and heavy and knock some sensse in and get his point over, he don't go and lock the thread and spoil it for everyone. |
|
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
596
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:51:00 -
[61] - Quote
Cerebral Wolf wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:I'm not convinced that Cutter Isaacson ISN'T an ISD alt. Because I'm not **** posting and actually have a decent command of the English language? I'm just tired of seeing the same 4 or 5 names popping up on the front page of the forums whining about how they are a special little snowflake and how the big bad nasty ISD people are locking their content free crap threads. They are not all content free though, that's the issue.
I see 64 locked threads, not one had any content. As has been pointed out by many others including CCP, if you have any issues with the way things are being dealt with, then you need only email customer services.
Here is the email address
[email protected]
Enjoy! Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:53:00 -
[62] - Quote
Disregard |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:55:00 -
[63] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Cerebral Wolf wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:I'm not convinced that Cutter Isaacson ISN'T an ISD alt. Because I'm not **** posting and actually have a decent command of the English language? I'm just tired of seeing the same 4 or 5 names popping up on the front page of the forums whining about how they are a special little snowflake and how the big bad nasty ISD people are locking their content free crap threads. They are not all content free though, that's the issue. I see 64 locked threads, not one had any content. As has been pointed out by many others including CCP, if you have any issues with the way things are being dealt with, then you need only email customer services. Here is the email address [email protected]Enjoy!
I understand the need to have someone provide fair and reasonable argument for both sides of a dispute. But this guy is differing to email addresses like a CCP pro.
:tinfoil: |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1605
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:56:00 -
[64] - Quote
and now my post has been edited to remove my claims of how the ISD are treating players, there was no discussion of moderation and no hateful or "attacking" language
so its pretty much whatever these guys think the rules are.
bullshit
I'm done, CCP can have my sub back when they apologize in writing for this horrible treatment
I think I may have to consult a specialist for the pain and distress this has caused me "You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:57:00 -
[65] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote:
:tinfoil:
Aluminum foil is superior. |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 03:58:00 -
[66] - Quote
Morganta wrote:
-I also took the liberty of stripping your sig from my post as you are not worthy of having an official signature-
I am now marking out for Morganta. |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
Joe Everyguy wrote:Jason Marshall wrote:
:tinfoil:
Aluminum foil is superior.
We are in the middle of an economic decline m8. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
598
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:00:00 -
[68] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Cerebral Wolf wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:I'm not convinced that Cutter Isaacson ISN'T an ISD alt. Because I'm not **** posting and actually have a decent command of the English language? I'm just tired of seeing the same 4 or 5 names popping up on the front page of the forums whining about how they are a special little snowflake and how the big bad nasty ISD people are locking their content free crap threads. They are not all content free though, that's the issue. I see 64 locked threads, not one had any content. As has been pointed out by many others including CCP, if you have any issues with the way things are being dealt with, then you need only email customer services. Here is the email address [email protected]Enjoy! I understand the need to have someone provide fair and reasonable argument for both sides of a dispute. But this guy is differing to email addresses like a CCP pro. :tinfoil:
I've been playing EVE for coming on 7 years now, and after that amount of time you tend to pick up a few things. You also see a lot of people who like to act out on the forums, so rather than arguing with them I'll try and nudge them in the right direction instead.
Threads like the ones we've seen today tend to surface once in a while, and the best thing to do is give the poster as much concrete information as possible, with as many handy links as possible and then let them do as they wish. Sometimes you get thanked, sometimes you get called a fanboi, but at the end of the day it's just called common courtesy. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:00:00 -
[69] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:At least the CCL (forum mods). The ISDs are fine in the rookie/help chats (though they give terrible advice and don't know the mechanics they're trying to explain).
at least the ISD apparently cant ban lol youd be screwed ruby http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:02:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote:
We are in the middle of an economic decline m8.
Oh, please. It's all of 60 cents more in price. |
|
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2136
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:04:00 -
[71] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:I'm not convinced that Cutter Isaacson ISN'T an ISD alt. Because I'm not **** posting and actually have a decent command of the English language? I'm just tired of seeing the same 4 or 5 names popping up on the front page of the forums whining about how they are a special little snowflake and how the big bad nasty ISD people are locking their content free crap threads. If they hadn't been locking/editing our content-filled posts, we wouldn't have started this. Most of the threads that got locked were random garbage at best, the others degenerated into random garbage after a few replies which was a shame as some actually had some interesting posts in. If there was any valid 'content' in there though its headed the same way as the 'outrage over goons exploit' threads, probably 4 pages back by now.
Yep. That's been intentional.
But was the newbie asking for help with the Character creator worthy of getting his thread locked before he got his question answered? That's what threw gasoline on all of this. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2136
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:05:00 -
[72] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:At least the CCL (forum mods). The ISDs are fine in the rookie/help chats (though they give terrible advice and don't know the mechanics they're trying to explain). at least the ISD apparently cant ban lol youd be screwed ruby
I fully expect to have a forum vacation from all this. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1607
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:06:00 -
[73] - Quote
Joe Everyguy wrote:Morganta wrote:
-I also took the liberty of stripping your sig from my post as you are not worthy of having an official signature-
I am now marking out for Morganta.
oh I'm sure I'm toast, but the difference is I won't be back in 2 weeks
and I don't make unsub threats, anyone who knows me can attest to that. I said it, I did it and the future is up to CCP, but I'm a terribly lazy **** who will not be arsed to click the button more than once in a months time. so I'll be gone at least till August, probably longer since CCP doesn't care for my business anyhow
besides everyone is bugging me to play more dayz "You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
Gun Gal
Dark Club
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:11:00 -
[74] - Quote
I see tears:-) Oh ya,good work ISD, its kind of funny seeing the flamers, the jerks, and the more vocal whiners cry.
Tah tah |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:11:00 -
[75] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
I understand the need to have someone provide fair and reasonable argument for both sides of a dispute. But this guy is differing to email addresses like a CCP pro.
:tinfoil:
I've been playing EVE for coming on 7 years now, and after that amount of time you tend to pick up a few things. You also see a lot of people who like to act out on the forums, so rather than arguing with them I'll try and nudge them in the right direction instead.
Threads like the ones we've seen today tend to surface once in a while, and the best thing to do is give the poster as much concrete information as possible, with as many handy links as possible and then let them do as they wish. Sometimes you get thanked, sometimes you get called a fanboi, but at the end of the day it's just called common courtesy.[/quote]
I can match your 7 years. Even beat it by a little. But the thing is I care about the community. And I've been witness to all of the changes over the years, some have been wonderful some depressing. But I know what fun this game and its community are capable of creating and thats something worth fighting for. I dont hate ISD or CCP the opposite infact. I just feel strongly that this is the wrong way to go about forum moderation. And, well to be quite frank this situation has just pissed me the **** off. I dont think you are a fanboi anymore than I am, I guess we just have different feelings about the past and how we should move on.
I hope we can both agree on the fact that ISD Forum Moderators need to have guidelines that they all follow. Its not up to each individual moderator to interpret those how he or she wants to they need to be enforced the same.
We need to have more open selection of forum moderators it would go along ways to know they have been around the block a few times. And while im sure they arent 6 month old newbs im not convinced they have any sort of familiarity with how the community has evolved over the last 8 years. |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:12:00 -
[76] - Quote
Joe Everyguy wrote:Jason Marshall wrote:
We are in the middle of an economic decline m8.
Oh, please. It's all of 60 cents more in price.
I live in Alaska m8 I have to hire a small plane or boat to get anything to me. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
600
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:13:00 -
[77] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
Yep. That's been intentional.
But was the newbie asking for help with the Character creator worthy of getting his thread locked before he got his question answered? That's what threw gasoline on all of this.
Which newbie are you referring to?
Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1607
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:14:00 -
[78] - Quote
Gun Gal wrote:I see tears:-) Oh ya,good work ISD, its kind of funny seeing the flamers, the jerks, and the more vocal whiners cry.
Tah tah
don't fly too close to the sun on your new found wings little bird
"You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2136
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:15:00 -
[79] - Quote
Gun Gal wrote:I see tears:-) Oh ya,good work ISD, its kind of funny seeing the flamers, the jerks, and the more vocal whiners cry.
Tah tah
Wonder if this post, being full of content, and lacking in any form of personal attacks will be stenssoned. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:16:00 -
[80] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
Yep. That's been intentional.
But was the newbie asking for help with the Character creator worthy of getting his thread locked before he got his question answered? That's what threw gasoline on all of this.
Which newbie are you referring to?
He is reffering to my original post asking wondering how i could or why the hell i couldnt tuck the new dress shirt i bought at NEX into my pants.
And I agree it wasnt the most direct thread title. But certainly not so far out their has to really be contentless. |
|
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2138
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:16:00 -
[81] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
Yep. That's been intentional.
But was the newbie asking for help with the Character creator worthy of getting his thread locked before he got his question answered? That's what threw gasoline on all of this.
Which newbie are you referring to?
The guy who couldn't find the Shirt tuck-in button. I'd link the thread (or the 2 rezzed threads that it took to answer his question), but linking locked threads is against the rules (and, more importantly, I'm lazy). This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:20:00 -
[82] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote: I live in Alaska m8 I have to hire a small plane or boat to get anything to me.
What the ****, man. I have no words to express how glad I am I don't live on Hoth like you do. :p |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
600
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:20:00 -
[83] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
Yep. That's been intentional.
But was the newbie asking for help with the Character creator worthy of getting his thread locked before he got his question answered? That's what threw gasoline on all of this.
Which newbie are you referring to? The guy who couldn't find the Shirt tuck-in button. I'd link the thread (or the 2 rezzed threads that it took to answer his question), but linking locked threads is against the rules (and, more importantly, I'm lazy).
I know precisely which one you are talking about, I dismissed it at first because the poster is in fact not a newbie. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2138
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:22:00 -
[84] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
Yep. That's been intentional.
But was the newbie asking for help with the Character creator worthy of getting his thread locked before he got his question answered? That's what threw gasoline on all of this.
Which newbie are you referring to? The guy who couldn't find the Shirt tuck-in button. I'd link the thread (or the 2 rezzed threads that it took to answer his question), but linking locked threads is against the rules (and, more importantly, I'm lazy). I know precisely which one you are talking about, I dismissed it at first because the poster is in fact not a newbie.
So ISDs should assume that older players asking simple questions are trolling and should have their threads locked? This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:23:00 -
[85] - Quote
How IS this not locked lol
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
479
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:23:00 -
[86] - Quote
Gas thread, ban OP. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:24:00 -
[87] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
Yep. That's been intentional.
But was the newbie asking for help with the Character creator worthy of getting his thread locked before he got his question answered? That's what threw gasoline on all of this.
Which newbie are you referring to? The guy who couldn't find the Shirt tuck-in button. I'd link the thread (or the 2 rezzed threads that it took to answer his question), but linking locked threads is against the rules (and, more importantly, I'm lazy). I know precisely which one you are talking about, I dismissed it at first because the poster is in fact not a newbie. So ISDs should assume that older players asking simple questions are trolling and should have their threads locked?
I honestly thought that CCP hadn't added the feature. So I made a rage thread to get it implemented. Or to be laughed at and given an answer. It worked...but only after some..well..
|
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:25:00 -
[88] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Gas thread, ban OP.
You seem upset. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2139
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:26:00 -
[89] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote: I honestly thought that CCP hadn't added the feature. So I made a rage thread to get it implemented. Or to be laughed at and given an answer. It worked...but only after some..well..
You got trolled by an ISD. It happens... I guess... This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:26:00 -
[90] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:Jason Marshall wrote:
We are in the middle of an economic decline m8.
Oh, please. It's all of 60 cents more in price. I live in Alaska m8 I have to hire a small plane or boat to get anything to me.
Ive done that but it was in Maine but only in winter :D
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
479
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:26:00 -
[91] - Quote
Joe Everyguy wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Gas thread, ban OP. You seem upset.
Damn right I'm upset. All this whining about a moderation team is taking precious time away from my spaceships discussion. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Joe Everyguy
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:28:00 -
[92] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Gas thread, ban OP. You seem upset. Damn right I'm upset. All this whining about a moderation team is taking precious time away from my spaceships discussion.
obnoxious image macro implying that Lapine is colon crucified/some other tired meme |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
601
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:29:00 -
[93] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote: I honestly thought that CCP hadn't added the feature. So I made a rage thread to get it implemented. Or to be laughed at and given an answer. It worked...but only after some..well..
Whilst it can be a little disorienting returning to a game after a prolonged period of absence, it would serve people well if they used manners and politeness to gain answers to their questions.
Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Quaaid
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:29:00 -
[94] - Quote
I support this, that team has been way too liberal with their moderation.
+1 for Topic and Transparency (whatever the outlet) |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
479
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:33:00 -
[95] - Quote
Joe Everyguy wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Gas thread, ban OP. You seem upset. Damn right I'm upset. All this whining about a moderation team is taking precious time away from my spaceships discussion. obnoxious image macro implying that Lapine is colon crucified/some other tired meme
But for serious, all this whining about the CCL team recruiting, something that they've been doing for a while, just not announcing it openly, is really, really dumb. So a guy went and locked a bunch of no-content threads people were posting in? Big Whoop. That happens every day when the mods are online. It's just that it's visible right now because someone went off the deep end and posted a million useless threads that all needed to be locked. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
479
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:34:00 -
[96] - Quote
Quaaid wrote:I support this, that team has been way too liberal with their moderation.
+1 for Topic and Transparency (whatever the outlet)
Real life politics? Reported. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Patrick Estemaire
Black Candle Labs
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:37:00 -
[97] - Quote
This feels like the old Guards/Prisoners social experiment. For nerds.
|
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:37:00 -
[98] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Jason Marshall wrote: I honestly thought that CCP hadn't added the feature. So I made a rage thread to get it implemented. Or to be laughed at and given an answer. It worked...but only after some..well..
Whilst it can be a little disorienting returning to a game after a prolonged period of absence, it would serve people well if they used manners and politeness to gain answers to their questions.
:| What exactly was impolite about my OP. It was intended to incite awareness of the fact we lacked the means to tuck our fancy shirts into our fancy pants. I never got the chance to thank anyone for answering my question nor the chance to apologize for the tone of my original post because it was locked.
That said.. Im doubting your claims of years played if this sort of post isn't familiar to you. |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:39:00 -
[99] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Joe Everyguy wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Gas thread, ban OP. You seem upset. Damn right I'm upset. All this whining about a moderation team is taking precious time away from my spaceships discussion. obnoxious image macro implying that Lapine is colon crucified/some other tired meme But for serious, all this whining about the CCL team recruiting, something that they've been doing for a while, just not announcing it openly, is really, really dumb. So a guy went and locked a bunch of no-content threads people were posting in? Big Whoop. That happens every day when the mods are online. It's just that it's visible right now because someone went off the deep end and posted a million useless threads that all needed to be locked.
No its more we gave the volunteer moderating thing a go and alot of us arent happy with results we are getting. This is happening now because we are tired of their lack of consistency and clearly they have selected some poor candidates how now have powers alot of us believe they arent qualified for. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2139
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:40:00 -
[100] - Quote
Patrick Estemaire wrote:This feels like the old Guards/Prisoners social experiment. For nerds.
The Stanford Prison Experiment is hilarious... I mean, except for all the torture.. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
|
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
480
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:41:00 -
[101] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:
But for serious, all this whining about the CCL team recruiting, something that they've been doing for a while, just not announcing it openly, is really, really dumb. So a guy went and locked a bunch of no-content threads people were posting in? Big Whoop. That happens every day when the mods are online. It's just that it's visible right now because someone went off the deep end and posted a million useless threads that all needed to be locked.
No its more we gave the volunteer moderating thing a go and alot of us arent happy with results we are getting. This is happening now because we are tired of their lack of consistency and clearly they have selected some poor candidates how now have powers alot of us believe they arent qualified for.
Buuuuut the ISD has been going for a while, hasn't it? I haven't noticed any serious issues.
The main issue i see now is that a few posters need to get their butts permabanned, because this is getting crazy. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:44:00 -
[102] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Jason Marshall wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:
But for serious, all this whining about the CCL team recruiting, something that they've been doing for a while, just not announcing it openly, is really, really dumb. So a guy went and locked a bunch of no-content threads people were posting in? Big Whoop. That happens every day when the mods are online. It's just that it's visible right now because someone went off the deep end and posted a million useless threads that all needed to be locked.
No its more we gave the volunteer moderating thing a go and alot of us arent happy with results we are getting. This is happening now because we are tired of their lack of consistency and clearly they have selected some poor candidates how now have powers alot of us believe they arent qualified for. Buuuuut the ISD has been going for a while, hasn't it? I haven't noticed any serious issues. The main issue i see now is that a few posters need to get their butts permabanned, because this is getting crazy.
Welp. Thats why we have forums. So that we can discuss issues.
Forgive us for turning to methods that have proved effective in the past when dealing with CCP. I'm not going to apologize for using these methods because I want CCP to acknowledge that there is a disagreement over this and I want to know that they are going to look into things.
If they look into it and conclude things are fine has is. thats fine a little sad, but fine it is their game and forum. But I want to see that they still care about the community and will look into issues that come up. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
480
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:47:00 -
[103] - Quote
Flooding the forums with useless threads is effective? Effective at getting people banned, maybe.
Did this really start because of a thread about shirt tucking options? Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Cerebral Wolf
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:48:00 -
[104] - Quote
See my posts have been deleted once again... |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:49:00 -
[105] - Quote
Joe Everyguy wrote:Jason Marshall wrote: I live in Alaska m8 I have to hire a small plane or boat to get anything to me.
What the ****, man. I have no words to express how glad I am I don't live on Hoth like you do. :p
I know places in MAINE (thats lower 48 mind you) where you still cant get cable TV/internet
Quote:Flooding the forums with useless threads is effective? Effective at getting people banned, maybe.
Did this really start because of a thread about shirt tucking options?
Theyre not really doing what they did last time cause what they did last time slammed the forums so hard CCP had to take them down till goons said they could use em again. THIS is really bushleague http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2139
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:50:00 -
[106] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Patrick Estemaire wrote:This feels like the old Guards/Prisoners social experiment. For nerds.
The Stanford Prison Experiment is hilarious... I mean, except for all the torture.. Yes, lets compare actual torture to the eve-o forums. Actually wait, that's quite apt.
I did nothing of the sort. I just said that the Experiment and story behind it are hilarious (but for the torture).
The fact that the lessons it can teach us about suddenly giving people power over their peers are pretty apt for the ISD debacle was beside the point of my post. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
602
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:51:00 -
[107] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:
I've been playing EVE for coming on 7 years now, and after that amount of time you tend to pick up a few things. You also see a lot of people who like to act out on the forums, so rather than arguing with them I'll try and nudge them in the right direction instead.
Threads like the ones we've seen today tend to surface once in a while, and the best thing to do is give the poster as much concrete information as possible, with as many handy links as possible and then let them do as they wish. Sometimes you get thanked, sometimes you get called a fanboi, but at the end of the day it's just called common courtesy.
I can match your 7 years. Even beat it by a little. But the thing is I care about the community. And I've been witness to all of the changes over the years, some have been wonderful some depressing. But I know what fun this game and its community are capable of creating and thats something worth fighting for. I dont hate ISD or CCP the opposite infact. I just feel strongly that this is the wrong way to go about forum moderation. And, well to be quite frank this situation has just pissed me the **** off. I dont think you are a fanboi anymore than I am, I guess we just have different feelings about the past and how we should move on. I hope we can both agree on the fact that ISD Forum Moderators need to have guidelines that they all follow. Its not up to each individual moderator to interpret those how he or she wants to they need to be enforced the same. We need to have more open selection of forum moderators it would go along ways to know they have been around the block a few times. And while im sure they arent 6 month old newbs im not convinced they have any sort of familiarity with how the community has evolved over the last 8 years.
We do agree on a a few points, I will grant you that.Where we appear to differ is on our approach to the game and the community. I feel no special sense of entitlement just because I have played for a long time, what I do feel is a need for decency.
As I tried to point out earlier, if you knew anything at all about the way CCP staff are trained and regulated, you would already have known that they DO have guidelines to follow, and as is pointed out very clearly in a link I provided earlier, all the ISD members are carefully monitored by the higher ups to ensure that they do their job properly.
What we need is for people to stop making things up as they go along, and then getting angry over those things that they just made up. If you get angry over facts, that is one thing, but to get angry over something that comes only from the inside of your head, well that's just plain silly.
Learn the facts first, post second. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
480
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:53:00 -
[108] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Patrick Estemaire wrote:This feels like the old Guards/Prisoners social experiment. For nerds.
The Stanford Prison Experiment is hilarious... I mean, except for all the torture.. Yes, lets compare actual torture to the eve-o forums. Actually wait, that's quite apt. I did nothing of the sort. I just said that the Experiment and story behind it are hilarious (but for the torture). The fact that the lessons it can teach us about suddenly giving people power over their peers are pretty apt for the ISD debacle was beside the point of my post.
I was more directing that at the guy who originally made the comparison. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
179
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:53:00 -
[109] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote: I just said that the Experiment and story behind it are hilarious (but for the torture).
Man ive HAD toenails removed surgically without anesthesia. Torture aint funny (mind you that was a DOCTOR so I even knew it was gonna end at some point I still cant imagine what that would be like without that part) http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2139
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:54:00 -
[110] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Flooding the forums with useless threads is effective? Effective at getting people banned, maybe.
Did this really start because of a thread about shirt tucking options?
That's what sparked the big fire. ISD Stensson locked a thread as Spam just because it happened to be posted while there was some dissent over the role of volunteer moderators on the EvE-O forums.
Turns out putting your Lock button on a Macro has some consequences. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
|
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
483
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:55:00 -
[111] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Flooding the forums with useless threads is effective? Effective at getting people banned, maybe.
Did this really start because of a thread about shirt tucking options? That's what sparked the big fire. ISD Stensson locked a thread as Spam just because it happened to be posted while there was some dissent over the role of volunteer moderators on the EvE-O forums. Turns out putting your Lock button on a Macro has some consequences.
So a guy goes a little trigger happy on one thread and suddenly the forums turn into L.A. ca. 1992? Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Cerebral Wolf
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:56:00 -
[112] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Flooding the forums with useless threads is effective? Effective at getting people banned, maybe.
Did this really start because of a thread about shirt tucking options? That's what sparked the big fire. ISD Stensson locked a thread as Spam just because it happened to be posted while there was some dissent over the role of volunteer moderators on the EvE-O forums. Turns out putting your Lock button on a Macro has some consequences.
And now they are going on a delete spree of anything that mentions that or anything similar. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1617
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:57:00 -
[113] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Flooding the forums with useless threads is effective? Effective at getting people banned, maybe.
Did this really start because of a thread about shirt tucking options? That's what sparked the big fire. ISD Stensson locked a thread as Spam just because it happened to be posted while there was some dissent over the role of volunteer moderators on the EvE-O forums. Turns out putting your Lock button on a Macro has some consequences. So a guy goes a little trigger happy on one thread and suddenly the forums turn into L.A. ca. 1992?
are you going to post the same comment in every thread?
"You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Exhale.
339
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:57:00 -
[114] - Quote
Ive never seen a useful post from an ISD member and have seen a lot of terrible ones. recently they have been locking char trade threads left right and center for completely arbitrary reasons. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2139
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:58:00 -
[115] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:RubyPorto wrote: I just said that the Experiment and story behind it are hilarious (but for the torture).
Man ive HAD toenails removed surgically without anesthesia. Torture aint funny (mind you that was a DOCTOR so I even knew it was gonna end at some point I still cant imagine what that would be like without that part)
I had a Doc at an Urgent care try to reset my smashed wrist with a Hematoma block that hadn't yet taken effect. This was after waiting for 4 hours (90+min of which were alone in an exam room. The perfect place for a trauma patient who's pale, diaphoretic, and complaining of 10/10 pain). Oh, and I had to teach the X-Ray techs how to reapply a splint because they thought they couldn't take an X-ray through a cardboard splint.
I had the Doc call me an ambulance to take me to a real doctor after I just barely stopped myself from slugging him. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
483
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:58:00 -
[116] - Quote
Morganta wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Flooding the forums with useless threads is effective? Effective at getting people banned, maybe.
Did this really start because of a thread about shirt tucking options? That's what sparked the big fire. ISD Stensson locked a thread as Spam just because it happened to be posted while there was some dissent over the role of volunteer moderators on the EvE-O forums. Turns out putting your Lock button on a Macro has some consequences. So a guy goes a little trigger happy on one thread and suddenly the forums turn into L.A. ca. 1992? are you going to post the same comment in every thread?
As long as it still remains accurate.
I may even put something in my sig about it to remember the event. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2139
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 04:58:00 -
[117] - Quote
Cerebral Wolf wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Flooding the forums with useless threads is effective? Effective at getting people banned, maybe.
Did this really start because of a thread about shirt tucking options? That's what sparked the big fire. ISD Stensson locked a thread as Spam just because it happened to be posted while there was some dissent over the role of volunteer moderators on the EvE-O forums. Turns out putting your Lock button on a Macro has some consequences. And now they are going on a delete spree of anything that mentions that or anything similar.
EvE-Search FTW. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Suqq Madiq
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:05:00 -
[118] - Quote
Morganta wrote:I unsubbed and named the ISD as a reason, that will go up the chain quicker than the 2 month petition line
This is literally the best news GD has seen in weeks. Good riddance to you and your shitposting.
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:06:00 -
[119] - Quote
how the hell is this:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=125940&find=unread
locked but THIS THREAD is still open lol http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:07:00 -
[120] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Jason Marshall wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:
I've been playing EVE for coming on 7 years now, and after that amount of time you tend to pick up a few things. You also see a lot of people who like to act out on the forums, so rather than arguing with them I'll try and nudge them in the right direction instead.
Threads like the ones we've seen today tend to surface once in a while, and the best thing to do is give the poster as much concrete information as possible, with as many handy links as possible and then let them do as they wish. Sometimes you get thanked, sometimes you get called a fanboi, but at the end of the day it's just called common courtesy.
I can match your 7 years. Even beat it by a little. But the thing is I care about the community. And I've been witness to all of the changes over the years, some have been wonderful some depressing. But I know what fun this game and its community are capable of creating and thats something worth fighting for. I dont hate ISD or CCP the opposite infact. I just feel strongly that this is the wrong way to go about forum moderation. And, well to be quite frank this situation has just pissed me the **** off. I dont think you are a fanboi anymore than I am, I guess we just have different feelings about the past and how we should move on. I hope we can both agree on the fact that ISD Forum Moderators need to have guidelines that they all follow. Its not up to each individual moderator to interpret those how he or she wants to they need to be enforced the same. We need to have more open selection of forum moderators it would go along ways to know they have been around the block a few times. And while im sure they arent 6 month old newbs im not convinced they have any sort of familiarity with how the community has evolved over the last 8 years. We do agree on a a few points, I will grant you that.Where we appear to differ is on our approach to the game and the community. I feel no special sense of entitlement just because I have played for a long time, what I do feel is a need for decency. As I tried to point out earlier, if you knew anything at all about the way CCP staff are trained and regulated, you would already have known that they DO have guidelines to follow, and as is pointed out very clearly in a link I provided earlier, all the ISD members are carefully monitored by the higher ups to ensure that they do their job properly. What we need is for people to stop making things up as they go along, and then getting angry over those things that they just made up. If you get angry over facts, that is one thing, but to get angry over something that comes only from the inside of your head, well that's just plain silly. Learn the facts first, post second.
I agree the methods ive backed in this case aren't the most condusive to constructive argument but it is a method most proven to get CCP's attention, I have a little regret with the means we chose but we didn't have many to chose from. I want to apologize to you if I ever personally attacked your person, I cant be sure if I did or not but if I did I really am sorry I genuinely try to remain level headed and reasonable while following Wheatons Law but Eve's community and how CCP interacts with it has always been a big thing for me so I can see if I might have.
I do have a problem with this though: "As I tried to point out earlier, if you knew anything at all about the way CCP staff are trained and regulated, you would already have known that they DO have guidelines to follow, and as is pointed out very clearly in a link I provided earlier, all the ISD members are carefully monitored by the higher ups to ensure that they do their job properly."
Im not convinced they are getting enough oversight. And if they are I want it to be made very clear that the moderators are acting like CCP wants them to ask. If CCP has decided that they want to white wash the forums and make them more strict than they have in the past then thats fine. But right now the moderation doesnt feel like CCP it feels like a few kids got keys to the city and are doing what they please.
I never ignored any of your points I read through them all and learned a few things. But you can't believe that these people are acting like a paid employee would be acting when it comes to how they operate. Their next paycheck isn't coming from CCP. Up until recently we know who the moderators were, we knew they were CCP employees. At the very least we need to know who these volunteers are, yes that might come with some negative effects ingame with people hunting them just to get a kill on a forum mod, but it will keep them honest and if they are truly interested in helping the community that will be the small price they pay. And honestly this is eve..I would get in on a headhunt for some asshat that did a good guy wrong. |
|
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
483
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:08:00 -
[121] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:Morganta wrote:I unsubbed and named the ISD as a reason, that will go up the chain quicker than the 2 month petition line This is literally the best news GD has seen in weeks. Good riddance to you and your shitposting.
Yes, thank god. Or the ISD team, for helping you finalize your decision to leave us for good. Morganta, can we get your final sub date so we can count the days? Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2139
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:08:00 -
[122] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:Morganta wrote:I unsubbed and named the ISD as a reason, that will go up the chain quicker than the 2 month petition line This is literally the best news GD has seen in weeks. Good riddance to you and your shitposting.
Reported for Offensive name.
Nah, I don't try to censor people's expressing themselves. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
483
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:09:00 -
[123] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
First casualty of a much needed cleanup of GD. I welcome it. My thread served its purpose.
Edit: That is, it twas made to help me find out what the hell is going on with GD tonight. And I found out. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:10:00 -
[124] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Flooding the forums with useless threads is effective? Effective at getting people banned, maybe.
Did this really start because of a thread about shirt tucking options? That's what sparked the big fire. ISD Stensson locked a thread as Spam just because it happened to be posted while there was some dissent over the role of volunteer moderators on the EvE-O forums. Turns out putting your Lock button on a Macro has some consequences. So a guy goes a little trigger happy on one thread and suddenly the forums turn into L.A. ca. 1992?
Too soon.
RIP Mr. King I'm sorry you had to go through what you did. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1618
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:11:00 -
[125] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:Morganta wrote:I unsubbed and named the ISD as a reason, that will go up the chain quicker than the 2 month petition line This is literally the best news GD has seen in weeks. Good riddance to you and your shitposting.
lol enjoy your new computer generated name
and if you really knew anything you would call it the best news in years
"You were the chosen one Anikin, you were supposed to bring order to the universe, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobe |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
483
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:11:00 -
[126] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Flooding the forums with useless threads is effective? Effective at getting people banned, maybe.
Did this really start because of a thread about shirt tucking options? That's what sparked the big fire. ISD Stensson locked a thread as Spam just because it happened to be posted while there was some dissent over the role of volunteer moderators on the EvE-O forums. Turns out putting your Lock button on a Macro has some consequences. So a guy goes a little trigger happy on one thread and suddenly the forums turn into L.A. ca. 1992? Too soon. RIP Mr. King I'm sorry you had to go through what you did.
Can't we all just get along? Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:12:00 -
[127] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:RubyPorto wrote: I just said that the Experiment and story behind it are hilarious (but for the torture).
Man ive HAD toenails removed surgically without anesthesia. Torture aint funny (mind you that was a DOCTOR so I even knew it was gonna end at some point I still cant imagine what that would be like without that part) I had a Doc at an Urgent care try to reset my smashed wrist with a Hematoma block that hadn't yet taken effect. This was after waiting for 4 hours (90+min of which were alone in an exam room. The perfect place for a trauma patient who's pale, diaphoretic, and complaining of 10/10 pain). Oh, and I had to teach the X-Ray techs how to reapply a splint because they thought they couldn't take an X-ray through a cardboard splint. I had the Doc call me an ambulance to take me to a real doctor after I just barely stopped myself from slugging him.
lol I was in a mosh pit at a Deathklokk concert, where I elbowwed a guy in the head (he punched me in the nuts I thought it justified) SO HARD it shattered my elbow (4 surgeries on the elbow so far since they cut out the bone rather than keep fixing it) and destabilized my shoulder so I had to get it reconstructed - I know that kind of pain lol
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2139
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:12:00 -
[128] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
By the way, I've never been a member of the SA forums. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
307
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:13:00 -
[129] - Quote
What I sent to CCP on the topic...
Quote:I gotta say this recruitment drive is hauling a poor crop indeed. Check out this one: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts=125679=unreadNo empathy - check. No effort at all to help - check. Immediately close the user's thread without any chance for the community to help - check. Link the customer to an already closed thread - check. Forums are to communicate and to lessen the burden of support - basically the cost of it. If you empower a group of drones who fail to understand that they at some level need to represent your company as well as mindlessly apply "rules" then you are doing yourself a great disservice. Why you even let them say "rules" is beyond me. Forum moderation is 100% subjective and dependent on infinite combinations of context. Make your people say "guidelines". Semantically the same thing, provides infinite wriggle room and is not as confrontational to the customer. Who is educating your moderators? Moderators should be polite, but firm. Most importantly they should give the customer a feeling they appreciate their position, even if they privately could not care less. I have no idea where you are getting these people, but Gods you are creating a miserable time for yourself down the track.
EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
483
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:14:00 -
[130] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: By the way, I've never been a member of the SA forums.
Neither have I. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
|
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:16:00 -
[131] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: By the way, I've never been a member of the SA forums.
eh?
http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:17:00 -
[132] - Quote
Graic Gabtar wrote:What I sent to CCP on the topic... Quote:I gotta say this recruitment drive is hauling a poor crop indeed. Check out this one: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts=125679=unreadNo empathy - check. No effort at all to help - check. Immediately close the user's thread without any chance for the community to help - check. Link the customer to an already closed thread - check. Forums are to communicate and to lessen the burden of support - basically the cost of it. If you empower a group of drones who fail to understand that they at some level need to represent your company as well as mindlessly apply "rules" then you are doing yourself a great disservice. Why you even let them say "rules" is beyond me. Forum moderation is 100% subjective and dependent on infinite combinations of context. Make your people say "guidelines". Semantically the same thing, provides infinite wriggle room and is not as confrontational to the customer. Who is educating your moderators? Moderators should be polite, but firm. Most importantly they should give the customer a feeling they appreciate their position, even if they privately could not care less. I have no idea where you are getting these people, but Gods you are creating a miserable time for yourself down the track.
They deleted the thread. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2140
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:19:00 -
[133] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: By the way, I've never been a member of the SA forums. eh?
A member of the SA forums is a Goon. Everyone else is a pubbie. I'm a pubbie. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
604
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:20:00 -
[134] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:
We do agree on a a few points, I will grant you that.Where we appear to differ is on our approach to the game and the community. I feel no special sense of entitlement just because I have played for a long time, what I do feel is a need for decency.
As I tried to point out earlier, if you knew anything at all about the way CCP staff are trained and regulated, you would already have known that they DO have guidelines to follow, and as is pointed out very clearly in a link I provided earlier, all the ISD members are carefully monitored by the higher ups to ensure that they do their job properly.
What we need is for people to stop making things up as they go along, and then getting angry over those things that they just made up. If you get angry over facts, that is one thing, but to get angry over something that comes only from the inside of your head, well that's just plain silly.
Learn the facts first, post second.
I agree the methods ive backed in this case aren't the most condusive to constructive argument but it is a method most proven to get CCP's attention, I have a little regret with the means we chose but we didn't have many to chose from. I want to apologize to you if I ever personally attacked your person, I cant be sure if I did or not but if I did I really am sorry I genuinely try to remain level headed and reasonable while following Wheatons Law but Eve's community and how CCP interacts with it has always been a big thing for me so I can see if I might have. I do have a problem with this though: "As I tried to point out earlier, if you knew anything at all about the way CCP staff are trained and regulated, you would already have known that they DO have guidelines to follow, and as is pointed out very clearly in a link I provided earlier, all the ISD members are carefully monitored by the higher ups to ensure that they do their job properly." Im not convinced they are getting enough oversight. And if they are I want it to be made very clear that the moderators are acting like CCP wants them to ask. If CCP has decided that they want to white wash the forums and make them more strict than they have in the past then thats fine. But right now the moderation doesnt feel like CCP it feels like a few kids got keys to the city and are doing what they please. I never ignored any of your points I read through them all and learned a few things. But you can't believe that these people are acting like a paid employee would be acting when it comes to how they operate. Their next paycheck isn't coming from CCP. Up until recently we know who the moderators were, we knew they were CCP employees. At the very least we need to know who these volunteers are, yes that might come with some negative effects ingame with people hunting them just to get a kill on a forum mod, but it will keep them honest and if they are truly interested in helping the community that will be the small price they pay. And honestly this is eve..I would get in on a headhunt for some asshat that did a good guy wrong.
Thank you for a pleasantly worded post, it makes a nice change. I'm pretty sure you have never attacked me personally, but I do appreciate the apology just in case When it comes to moderation of its staff, CCP take it very seriously, to the point of installing their own Internal Affairs department to oversee any major issues. One of the links I provided earlier on describes in detail how CCP monitors its volunteers, even offering up an example of one who did not quite come up to scratch and was subsequently let go.
I also think it rather unfair to assume that just because somebody is an unpaid volunteer, that they have any less passion or integrity than someone who receives financial compensation in the form of wages. You only need to look at people who volunteer in soup kitchens, homeless shelters and other such things all around the world to see an example of what I mean. They do it because they are passionate enough about it to do it for free. Without wanting to downplay or dismiss the fine work done by CCP's paid staff, I think it says a lot for the volunteers that they would wade through pages of rubbish, and do it for free.
And as for knowing who ISD staff are, that will never happen, and never should. It should be shockingly clear to anyone paying attention that some people do not know when to let go, or where to draw the line, and to have ISD staff exposed publicly would basically mean the end of their EVE gaming career. You cannot in all honesty think that such a situation is fair.
Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Janet Marshall
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:21:00 -
[135] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: By the way, I've never been a member of the SA forums. eh? A member of the SA forums is a Goon. Everyone else is a pubbie. I'm a pubbie.
\o/ I can say I have never registered on SA either!
(They will never find me now!) |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:22:00 -
[136] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: By the way, I've never been a member of the SA forums. eh? A member of the SA forums is a Goon. Everyone else is a pubbie. I'm a pubbie.
Snigwaffe isnt goons?
oh PL lol I dont do 0.0 obviously http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
Janet Marshall
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:23:00 -
[137] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: By the way, I've never been a member of the SA forums. eh? A member of the SA forums is a Goon. Everyone else is a pubbie. I'm a pubbie. Snigwaffe isnt goons?
Sniggardly has never been goon afaik. |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
307
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:23:00 -
[138] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote:They deleted the thread. Bah.
Shows just how bad it was.
The OP created a thread saying "Hey guys can you help I have this error..."
And the ISD in about 3 milliseconds the response was closed thread and closer of "NO DUPLICATE THREADS! THE RIGHT THREAD IS HERE!"
And he linked to some closed thread. The OP re-posted in a huff and THAT was the start of the madness, not the tucked in shirt - that was the second error.
EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
483
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:23:00 -
[139] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: By the way, I've never been a member of the SA forums. eh? A member of the SA forums is a Goon. Everyone else is a pubbie. I'm a pubbie. Snigwaffe isnt goons?
Nope! Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:24:00 -
[140] - Quote
Ya I went an looked at it the waffe made me think of goonwaffe lol http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
|
Ituhata
The Scope Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:25:00 -
[141] - Quote
I always thought sniggwaffe was PL. I've only ever lived in the south. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2140
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:26:00 -
[142] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote: By the way, I've never been a member of the SA forums. eh? A member of the SA forums is a Goon. Everyone else is a pubbie. I'm a pubbie. Snigwaffe isnt goons? oh PL lol I dont do 0.0 obviously
Nope Waffles isn't goons. Neither is PL.
We all get painted with the same brush by a lot of carebears because we sometimes make them mad too (also because of OTEC) This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
killorbekilled TBE
Dare Bears
104
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:26:00 -
[143] - Quote
My self and all my alts support this get rid of them srs huh? |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2140
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:27:00 -
[144] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Ya I went an looked at it the waffe made me think of goonwaffe lol
I think Waffles had the original Goonswarm alliance name for a while. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Janet Marshall
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:32:00 -
[145] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Jason Marshall wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:
We do agree on a a few points, I will grant you that.Where we appear to differ is on our approach to the game and the community. I feel no special sense of entitlement just because I have played for a long time, what I do feel is a need for decency.
As I tried to point out earlier, if you knew anything at all about the way CCP staff are trained and regulated, you would already have known that they DO have guidelines to follow, and as is pointed out very clearly in a link I provided earlier, all the ISD members are carefully monitored by the higher ups to ensure that they do their job properly.
What we need is for people to stop making things up as they go along, and then getting angry over those things that they just made up. If you get angry over facts, that is one thing, but to get angry over something that comes only from the inside of your head, well that's just plain silly.
Learn the facts first, post second.
I agree the methods ive backed in this case aren't the most condusive to constructive argument but it is a method most proven to get CCP's attention, I have a little regret with the means we chose but we didn't have many to chose from. I want to apologize to you if I ever personally attacked your person, I cant be sure if I did or not but if I did I really am sorry I genuinely try to remain level headed and reasonable while following Wheatons Law but Eve's community and how CCP interacts with it has always been a big thing for me so I can see if I might have. I do have a problem with this though: "As I tried to point out earlier, if you knew anything at all about the way CCP staff are trained and regulated, you would already have known that they DO have guidelines to follow, and as is pointed out very clearly in a link I provided earlier, all the ISD members are carefully monitored by the higher ups to ensure that they do their job properly." Im not convinced they are getting enough oversight. And if they are I want it to be made very clear that the moderators are acting like CCP wants them to ask. If CCP has decided that they want to white wash the forums and make them more strict than they have in the past then thats fine. But right now the moderation doesnt feel like CCP it feels like a few kids got keys to the city and are doing what they please. I never ignored any of your points I read through them all and learned a few things. But you can't believe that these people are acting like a paid employee would be acting when it comes to how they operate. Their next paycheck isn't coming from CCP. Up until recently we know who the moderators were, we knew they were CCP employees. At the very least we need to know who these volunteers are, yes that might come with some negative effects ingame with people hunting them just to get a kill on a forum mod, but it will keep them honest and if they are truly interested in helping the community that will be the small price they pay. And honestly this is eve..I would get in on a headhunt for some asshat that did a good guy wrong. Thank you for a pleasantly worded post, it makes a nice change. I'm pretty sure you have never attacked me personally, but I do appreciate the apology just in case When it comes to moderation of its staff, CCP take it very seriously, to the point of installing their own Internal Affairs department to oversee any major issues. One of the links I provided earlier on describes in detail how CCP monitors its volunteers, even offering up an example of one who did not quite come up to scratch and was subsequently let go. I also think it rather unfair to assume that just because somebody is an unpaid volunteer, that they have any less passion or integrity than someone who receives financial compensation in the form of wages. You only need to look at people who volunteer in soup kitchens, homeless shelters and other such things all around the world to see an example of what I mean. They do it because they are passionate enough about it to do it for free. Without wanting to downplay or dismiss the fine work done by CCP's paid staff, I think it says a lot for the volunteers that they would wade through pages of rubbish, and do it for free. And as for knowing who ISD staff are, that will never happen, and never should. It should be shockingly clear to anyone paying attention that some people do not know when to let go, or where to draw the line, and to have ISD staff exposed publicly would basically mean the end of their EVE gaming career. You cannot in all honesty think that such a situation is fair.
Its not that I automatically assume the volunteers aren't genuinely interested in helping. Its that I know for everyone of that type their are 100 more who just want the power. Everything you have linked regarding CCP policies I have read the devblog for (most for the second time has I read them when they were originally posted). You cannot convince me that all of the current moderators are genuine nor experienced eve players and longtime community members if all I have to go on is the last month or so of their moderation. Its just such a change from the norm. I want to get confirmation that they are following guidelines and defentions outlined by CCP. Their is no harm in posting the guidelines and definitions the volunteers have to follow. But im not convinced their are any. This thread not being locked is a case in point, the currently active mods are fine with it but Sten and that other guy from earlier would have had it locked 7 pages ago.
|
Jason Marshall
Born-2-Kill
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:35:00 -
[146] - Quote
Janet Marshall wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Jason Marshall wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:
We do agree on a a few points, I will grant you that.Where we appear to differ is on our approach to the game and the community. I feel no special sense of entitlement just because I have played for a long time, what I do feel is a need for decency.
As I tried to point out earlier, if you knew anything at all about the way CCP staff are trained and regulated, you would already have known that they DO have guidelines to follow, and as is pointed out very clearly in a link I provided earlier, all the ISD members are carefully monitored by the higher ups to ensure that they do their job properly.
What we need is for people to stop making things up as they go along, and then getting angry over those things that they just made up. If you get angry over facts, that is one thing, but to get angry over something that comes only from the inside of your head, well that's just plain silly.
Learn the facts first, post second.
I agree the methods ive backed in this case aren't the most condusive to constructive argument but it is a method most proven to get CCP's attention, I have a little regret with the means we chose but we didn't have many to chose from. I want to apologize to you if I ever personally attacked your person, I cant be sure if I did or not but if I did I really am sorry I genuinely try to remain level headed and reasonable while following Wheatons Law but Eve's community and how CCP interacts with it has always been a big thing for me so I can see if I might have. I do have a problem with this though: "As I tried to point out earlier, if you knew anything at all about the way CCP staff are trained and regulated, you would already have known that they DO have guidelines to follow, and as is pointed out very clearly in a link I provided earlier, all the ISD members are carefully monitored by the higher ups to ensure that they do their job properly." Im not convinced they are getting enough oversight. And if they are I want it to be made very clear that the moderators are acting like CCP wants them to ask. If CCP has decided that they want to white wash the forums and make them more strict than they have in the past then thats fine. But right now the moderation doesnt feel like CCP it feels like a few kids got keys to the city and are doing what they please. I never ignored any of your points I read through them all and learned a few things. But you can't believe that these people are acting like a paid employee would be acting when it comes to how they operate. Their next paycheck isn't coming from CCP. Up until recently we know who the moderators were, we knew they were CCP employees. At the very least we need to know who these volunteers are, yes that might come with some negative effects ingame with people hunting them just to get a kill on a forum mod, but it will keep them honest and if they are truly interested in helping the community that will be the small price they pay. And honestly this is eve..I would get in on a headhunt for some asshat that did a good guy wrong. Thank you for a pleasantly worded post, it makes a nice change. I'm pretty sure you have never attacked me personally, but I do appreciate the apology just in case When it comes to moderation of its staff, CCP take it very seriously, to the point of installing their own Internal Affairs department to oversee any major issues. One of the links I provided earlier on describes in detail how CCP monitors its volunteers, even offering up an example of one who did not quite come up to scratch and was subsequently let go. I also think it rather unfair to assume that just because somebody is an unpaid volunteer, that they have any less passion or integrity than someone who receives financial compensation in the form of wages. You only need to look at people who volunteer in soup kitchens, homeless shelters and other such things all around the world to see an example of what I mean. They do it because they are passionate enough about it to do it for free. Without wanting to downplay or dismiss the fine work done by CCP's paid staff, I think it says a lot for the volunteers that they would wade through pages of rubbish, and do it for free. And as for knowing who ISD staff are, that will never happen, and never should. It should be shockingly clear to anyone paying attention that some people do not know when to let go, or where to draw the line, and to have ISD staff exposed publicly would basically mean the end of their EVE gaming career. You cannot in all honesty think that such a situation is fair. Its not that I automatically assume the volunteers aren't genuinely interested in helping. Its that I know for everyone of that type their are 100 more who just want the power. Everything you have linked regarding CCP policies I have read the devblog for (most for the second time has I read them when they were originally posted). You cannot convince me that all of the current moderators are genuine nor experienced eve players and longtime community members if all I have to go on is the last month or so of their moderation. Its just such a change from the norm. I want to get confirmation that they are following guidelines and defentions outlined by CCP. Their is no harm in posting the guidelines and definitions the volunteers have to follow. But im not convinced their are any. This thread not being locked is a case in point, the currently active mods are fine with it but Sten and that other guy from earlier would have had it locked 7 pages ago.
Post with you main Janet. |
Dalmont Delantee
The Black Legionnares SpaceMonkey's Alliance
28
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:44:00 -
[147] - Quote
Posting in a WAA WAA thread because someone is actually stopping stupid trolls and morons from filling up general discussion with the same threads....
Though the isd thakept on referred people to a thread they had closed rather than the official whine thread was funny :P |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
153
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:44:00 -
[148] - Quote
Guys we need to calm down and stop posting, but if they still haras us in future by blocking good therads we smash them, by some protest act etc, this is out of conrol so far, but we need calm down, we see what happens in next days. Teemo for president. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1622
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:45:00 -
[149] - Quote
Dalmont Delantee wrote:Posting in a WAA WAA thread because someone is actually stopping stupid trolls and morons from filling up general discussion with the same threads....
Though the isd thakept on referred people to a thread they had closed rather than the official whine thread was funny :P
wow 4 TOS violations in a single post
better be careful of what you wish for citizen
"You were the chosen one Anakin, you were supposed to bring order to the galaxy, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobi -á |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
604
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:52:00 -
[150] - Quote
Jason Marshall wrote:
Its not that I automatically assume the volunteers aren't genuinely interested in helping. Its that I know for everyone of that type their are 100 more who just want the power. Everything you have linked regarding CCP policies I have read the devblog for (most for the second time has I read them when they were originally posted). You cannot convince me that all of the current moderators are genuine nor experienced eve players and longtime community members if all I have to go on is the last month or so of their moderation. Its just such a change from the norm. I want to get confirmation that they are following guidelines and defentions outlined by CCP. Their is no harm in posting the guidelines and definitions the volunteers have to follow. But im not convinced their are any. This thread not being locked is a case in point, the currently active mods are fine with it but Sten and that other guy from earlier would have had it locked 7 pages ago.
I can understand why you would want to have the guidelines published, but as with many things in EVE, if they were to publish them, people would abuse them and attempt to find loopholes, which in turn would just create more spam and less actual content.
As for the experience and background of the ISD members, CCP state more than once that the basic requirements are just that, basic. If you honestly believe that they will hire just anyone, then perhaps you do not know them as well as you claim to. I cannot, and will not enter in to an argument as to the level of experience that each and every ISD member has, but I have enough faith in CCP to feel safe in the knowledge that the people they take on to perform these tasks are up to the job.
Do not allow personal bias, infantile rhetoric from others, or a feeling of self entitlement to cloud your judgement, it serves only to make you look foolish. You do not strike me as a fool, merely someone caught up in the flood of silliness unleashed by other less informed individuals, and do not forget that some people who may appear supportive have a pre-existing axe to grind and will only be around for as long as it suits their purpose.
What I guess I'm saying is don't be a sheep, follow the facts, use good judgement and you will do just fine.
Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
|
Lykouleon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
488
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:52:00 -
[151] - Quote
Paging ISD Deadtear, paging ISD Deadtear to the thread! Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
205
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 05:58:00 -
[152] - Quote
Morganta wrote:and now my post has been edited to remove my claims of how the ISD are treating players, there was no discussion of moderation and no hateful or "attacking" language
so its pretty much whatever these guys think the rules are.
I'm done, CCP can have my sub back when they apologize in writing for this horrible treatment
I think I may have to consult a specialist for the pain and distress this has caused me just curious - as I don't believe you for one moment - when does your account run out?
Can't wait to see what you count as "in writing" to justify your continued subbing.
|
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
205
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:03:00 -
[153] - Quote
and, for what it's worth, just LOVING all this hyperbolic, "let's act like being slapped down for being children on a gaming forum is actually a civil rights issue" nonsense going on here. I think I've been seeing variants on the same thread since the mid-late 90's, it never gets old and it ALWAYS rings oh, SO true.
Quick - to the JitaStatueShootMobile! Get them lasers churning and see if we can't get The International Court of Justice on the case! |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
605
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:04:00 -
[154] - Quote
Time for some shut eye I think. Play nice kids. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Musashi IV
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:04:00 -
[155] - Quote
Just one more nail in the coffin for EVE. |
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:05:00 -
[156] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Jason Marshall wrote:
Its not that I automatically assume the volunteers aren't genuinely interested in helping. Its that I know for everyone of that type their are 100 more who just want the power. Everything you have linked regarding CCP policies I have read the devblog for (most for the second time has I read them when they were originally posted). You cannot convince me that all of the current moderators are genuine nor experienced eve players and longtime community members if all I have to go on is the last month or so of their moderation. Its just such a change from the norm. I want to get confirmation that they are following guidelines and defentions outlined by CCP. Their is no harm in posting the guidelines and definitions the volunteers have to follow. But im not convinced their are any. This thread not being locked is a case in point, the currently active mods are fine with it but Sten and that other guy from earlier would have had it locked 7 pages ago.
I can understand why you would want to have the guidelines published, but as with many things in EVE, if they were to publish them, people would abuse them and attempt to find loopholes, which in turn would just create more spam and less actual content. As for the experience and background of the ISD members, CCP state more than once that the basic requirements are just that, basic. If you honestly believe that they will hire just anyone, then perhaps you do not know them as well as you claim to. I cannot, and will not enter in to an argument as to the level of experience that each and every ISD member has, but I have enough faith in CCP to feel safe in the knowledge that the people they take on to perform these tasks are up to the job. Do not allow personal bias, infantile rhetoric from others, or a feeling of self entitlement to cloud your judgement, it serves only to make you look foolish. You do not strike me as a fool, merely someone caught up in the flood of silliness unleashed by other less informed individuals, and do not forget that some people who may appear supportive have a pre-existing axe to grind and will only be around for as long as it suits their purpose. What I guess I'm saying is don't be a sheep, follow the facts, use good judgement and you will do just fine.
"I can understand why you would want to have the guidelines published, but as with many things in EVE, if they were to publish them, people would abuse them and attempt to find loopholes, which in turn would just create more spam and less actual content. "
Its that exact reason why I dont take blind faith that volunteers are volunteering for the right reasons. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:07:00 -
[157] - Quote
Pesky LaRue wrote:and, for what it's worth, just LOVING all this hyperbolic, "let's act like being slapped down for being children on a gaming forum is actually a civil rights issue" nonsense going on here. I think I've been seeing variants on the same thread since the mid-late 90's, it never gets old and it ALWAYS rings oh, SO true.
Quick - to the JitaStatueShootMobile! Get them lasers churning and see if we can't get The International Court of Justice on the case!
So you're saying that it was right to Lock a thread that was asking how to tuck in your shirt? |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
606
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:09:00 -
[158] - Quote
Jason Auralis wrote: "I can understand why you would want to have the guidelines published, but as with many things in EVE, if they were to publish them, people would abuse them and attempt to find loopholes, which in turn would just create more spam and less actual content. "
Its that exact reason why I dont take blind faith that volunteers are volunteering for the right reasons.
Wait, sorry, have to respond to this before I get some sleep. You are saying you doubt the Volunteers motivations, because CCP won't tell you what guidelines ISD staff have to follow? That makes no sense, at all. And I have to sleep now. Pesky, keep an eye on them. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:15:00 -
[159] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Jason Auralis wrote: "I can understand why you would want to have the guidelines published, but as with many things in EVE, if they were to publish them, people would abuse them and attempt to find loopholes, which in turn would just create more spam and less actual content. "
Its that exact reason why I dont take blind faith that volunteers are volunteering for the right reasons.
Wait, sorry, have to respond to this before I get some sleep. You are saying you doubt the Volunteers motivations, because CCP won't tell you what guidelines ISD staff have to follow? That makes no sense, at all. And I have to sleep now. Pesky, keep an eye on them.
No, I'm saying I doubt their motivations because they are eve players.
And telling us what the guidelines were would go a long ways in reassuring people that they were doing their job right because we could call them on it. The whole point of moderators is to enforce rules.
Someone trying to get around something in the guidelines based on what he or she read of the guidelines would still end up with a locked post or punishment because moderators not being mindless computers are able to read into context and can see this going on. I have faith in volunteers to be intelegent and honest enough, But this is the eve-community going to need more than what we have to go on right now. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
387
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:17:00 -
[160] - Quote
but will it blend? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
|
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:17:00 -
[161] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:and, for what it's worth, just LOVING all this hyperbolic, "let's act like being slapped down for being children on a gaming forum is actually a civil rights issue" nonsense going on here. I think I've been seeing variants on the same thread since the mid-late 90's, it never gets old and it ALWAYS rings oh, SO true.
Quick - to the JitaStatueShootMobile! Get them lasers churning and see if we can't get The International Court of Justice on the case! So you're saying that it was right to Lock a thread that was asking how to tuck in your shirt? so:
a) that's not what happened, but nice strawman b) it's CCP's forum, so, if they don't like it, yes c) it's a frigging video game forum - if you can get THIS bent out of shape over it, you need a hobby or to volunteer, but you need SOMETHING to put this in perspective
|
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:20:00 -
[162] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Pesky, keep an eye on them. Deal :)
|
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:22:00 -
[163] - Quote
Pesky LaRue wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:and, for what it's worth, just LOVING all this hyperbolic, "let's act like being slapped down for being children on a gaming forum is actually a civil rights issue" nonsense going on here. I think I've been seeing variants on the same thread since the mid-late 90's, it never gets old and it ALWAYS rings oh, SO true.
Quick - to the JitaStatueShootMobile! Get them lasers churning and see if we can't get The International Court of Justice on the case! So you're saying that it was right to Lock a thread that was asking how to tuck in your shirt? so: a) that's not what happened, but nice strawman b) it's CCP's forum, so, if they don't like it, yes c) it's a frigging video game forum - if you can get THIS bent out of shape over it, you need a hobby or to volunteer, but you need SOMETHING to put this in perspective
Actually, yeah, it is. That's why this evolved into such a storm. A thread where a Guy asked how to tuck in his shirt got locked. There was some activity on the whole issue happening around that time, but that's what sparked it into a conflagration.
I like this video game. I am not ashamed to say that I don't like the company suppressing dissent when it's going to be unhealthy for them down the road. I'd post with my Main, but I don't think I'm allowed to, no matter how red his fortified wine is. |
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:25:00 -
[164] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:and, for what it's worth, just LOVING all this hyperbolic, "let's act like being slapped down for being children on a gaming forum is actually a civil rights issue" nonsense going on here. I think I've been seeing variants on the same thread since the mid-late 90's, it never gets old and it ALWAYS rings oh, SO true.
Quick - to the JitaStatueShootMobile! Get them lasers churning and see if we can't get The International Court of Justice on the case! So you're saying that it was right to Lock a thread that was asking how to tuck in your shirt? answered above but are YOU saying that a locked thread on a gaming forum is actually worth getting THIS bent out of shape over? Is this REALLY the civil rights violation a bunch of you are trying to make it out to be?
Thought not. |
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:28:00 -
[165] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:and, for what it's worth, just LOVING all this hyperbolic, "let's act like being slapped down for being children on a gaming forum is actually a civil rights issue" nonsense going on here. I think I've been seeing variants on the same thread since the mid-late 90's, it never gets old and it ALWAYS rings oh, SO true.
Quick - to the JitaStatueShootMobile! Get them lasers churning and see if we can't get The International Court of Justice on the case! So you're saying that it was right to Lock a thread that was asking how to tuck in your shirt? so: a) that's not what happened, but nice strawman b) it's CCP's forum, so, if they don't like it, yes c) it's a frigging video game forum - if you can get THIS bent out of shape over it, you need a hobby or to volunteer, but you need SOMETHING to put this in perspective Actually, yeah, it is. That's why this evolved into such a storm. A thread where a Guy asked how to tuck in his shirt got locked. There was some activity on the whole issue happening around that time, but that's what sparked it into a conflagration. I like this video game. I am not ashamed to say that I don't like the company suppressing dissent when it's going to be unhealthy for them down the road. No, it isn't, that's just what people are now saying is what happened. Guessing you weren't reading today and are just going by what others are saying?
Got it.
And again, grow up a little* and get some perspective.
* not aimed at you specifically |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:29:00 -
[166] - Quote
Pesky LaRue wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:and, for what it's worth, just LOVING all this hyperbolic, "let's act like being slapped down for being children on a gaming forum is actually a civil rights issue" nonsense going on here. I think I've been seeing variants on the same thread since the mid-late 90's, it never gets old and it ALWAYS rings oh, SO true.
Quick - to the JitaStatueShootMobile! Get them lasers churning and see if we can't get The International Court of Justice on the case! So you're saying that it was right to Lock a thread that was asking how to tuck in your shirt? answered above but are YOU saying that a locked thread on a gaming forum is actually worth getting THIS bent out of shape over? Is this REALLY the civil rights violation a bunch of you are trying to make it out to be? Thought not.
Never said it was.
I said that the style of moderation is counterproductive. I'd post with my Main, but I don't think I'm allowed to, no matter how red his fortified wine is. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:31:00 -
[167] - Quote
Pesky LaRue wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:and, for what it's worth, just LOVING all this hyperbolic, "let's act like being slapped down for being children on a gaming forum is actually a civil rights issue" nonsense going on here. I think I've been seeing variants on the same thread since the mid-late 90's, it never gets old and it ALWAYS rings oh, SO true.
Quick - to the JitaStatueShootMobile! Get them lasers churning and see if we can't get The International Court of Justice on the case! So you're saying that it was right to Lock a thread that was asking how to tuck in your shirt? so: a) that's not what happened, but nice strawman b) it's CCP's forum, so, if they don't like it, yes c) it's a frigging video game forum - if you can get THIS bent out of shape over it, you need a hobby or to volunteer, but you need SOMETHING to put this in perspective Actually, yeah, it is. That's why this evolved into such a storm. A thread where a Guy asked how to tuck in his shirt got locked. There was some activity on the whole issue happening around that time, but that's what sparked it into a conflagration. I like this video game. I am not ashamed to say that I don't like the company suppressing dissent when it's going to be unhealthy for them down the road. No, it isn't, that's just what people are now saying is what happened. Guessing you weren't reading today and are just going by what others are saying? Got it. And again, grow up a little* and get some perspective. * not aimed at you specifically
Hint: I was here all day. But I understand that you might not recognize my name because I'm new to posting on this toon. I'd post with my Main, but I don't think I'm allowed to, no matter how red his fortified wine is. |
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:36:00 -
[168] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:and, for what it's worth, just LOVING all this hyperbolic, "let's act like being slapped down for being children on a gaming forum is actually a civil rights issue" nonsense going on here. I think I've been seeing variants on the same thread since the mid-late 90's, it never gets old and it ALWAYS rings oh, SO true.
Quick - to the JitaStatueShootMobile! Get them lasers churning and see if we can't get The International Court of Justice on the case! So you're saying that it was right to Lock a thread that was asking how to tuck in your shirt? answered above but are YOU saying that a locked thread on a gaming forum is actually worth getting THIS bent out of shape over? Is this REALLY the civil rights violation a bunch of you are trying to make it out to be? Thought not. Never said it was. I said that the style of moderation is counterproductive. Depends on your perspective. I have been playing MMO's since UO, I have seen dozens, possibly hundreds of these kinds of 'forum uprising' and all it ever does is upset a few highly strung/immature individuals and the game and the rest of the community carries on just fine. |
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:39:00 -
[169] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote: Hint: I was here all day. But I understand that you might not recognize my name because I'm new to posting on this toon.
aha, so you're just deliberately misinterpreting events to justify all this forum drama. Again, got it. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:42:00 -
[170] - Quote
Pesky LaRue wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: Hint: I was here all day. But I understand that you might not recognize my name because I'm new to posting on this toon.
aha, so you're just deliberately misinterpreting events to justify all this forum drama. Again, got it.
There were some seriously overreaching acts made by certain ISDs. Some people got Huffed. The ISDs got even more huffed and stopped checking their work. Forum exploded. I'd post with my Main, but I don't think I'm allowed to, no matter how red his fortified wine is. |
|
Dalmont Delantee
The Black Legionnares SpaceMonkey's Alliance
28
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 06:53:00 -
[171] - Quote
Morganta wrote:Dalmont Delantee wrote:Posting in a WAA WAA thread because someone is actually stopping stupid trolls and morons from filling up general discussion with the same threads....
Though the isd thakept on referred people to a thread they had closed rather than the official whine thread was funny :P wow 4 TOS violations in a single post better be careful of what you wish for citizen
And look no edit etc..
This is not incarnagate, this is I don't like following forum rule whine thread.
General discussion usually gets me peed off and wanting to hunt down and kill the trolls (in game of course, but as they are all alts you never see them) but now I can read gd and not get stabby stabby in my head.
Please whine more I love thr tears :-p |
Majuan Shuo
SKULLDOGS
36
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:08:00 -
[172] - Quote
signed.
please remove particular power-drunk mouth breathers from any positions of influence.
neck beards and authority do not mix. "I believe the Winter expansion needs to be a huge success, and so they are giving us ice cream, and cake, and ice cream cake, and pizza, and hookers, and blow, and pizza. Any and everything they think players want and they can do by winter, they will stuff into this expansion." |
San Severina
Hoplite Brigade
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:12:00 -
[173] - Quote
+1 |
MinefieldS
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:14:00 -
[174] - Quote
Does the acronym "ISD" have any relationship to Bill Clinton, I wonder.... |
San Severina
Hoplite Brigade
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:15:00 -
[175] - Quote
Majuan Shuo wrote:signed.
please remove particular power-drunk mouth breathers from any positions of influence.
neck beards and authority do not mix.
you're mixing your derogatory stereotypes.
power drunk mouth breathers are the problem.
I'd suggest that Neckbeards would probably do a much much better job.
You have no idea what a Neckbeard actually is, do you?
Google 'RMS' |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
308
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:19:00 -
[176] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Pesky LaRue wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: Hint: I was here all day. But I understand that you might not recognize my name because I'm new to posting on this toon.
aha, so you're just deliberately misinterpreting events to justify all this forum drama. Again, got it. There were some seriously overreaching acts made by certain ISDs. Some people got Huffed. The ISDs got even more huffed and stopped checking their work. Forum exploded. I have been lurking for about the last 11 hours (slow day at work). That's basically how it went down.
An ISD made a couple of howlers and instead of taking a breath ploughed on foolishly.
Forum melt. EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Ghost Xray
Hedion University Amarr Empire
99
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:32:00 -
[177] - Quote
Morganta wrote:it is a failed experiment. you are losing more money than you are saving by continuing to let -----Edit-----
Shameful display of customer service I strongly recommend you rectify the situation before they do any more damage to your company
and I mean the forum division, I have no issues with ISDs ingame
Post edited Please file a petition if you have an issue with the moderators.
-I did, I unsubbed and named the ISD as a reason, that will go up the chain quicker than the 2 month petition line-
-I also took the liberty of stripping your sig from my post as you are not worthy of having an official signature-
As a member of the community, let me just say that your opinion means a whole lot to us. I know you have a choice in **** poasting, and I appreciate your choosing EvE-O to do it in. Please exercise caution when standing up, as the contents of your of your head may shifted and have definitely been damaged.
Oh, and while some jest that the forums is where the game is, you seem to think it actually does exist here. LONG LIVE THE FORUM WARRIORS!!! |
Sirinda
Aliastra Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:37:00 -
[178] - Quote
Free speech? In my Eve? **** or GTFO! |
|
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:38:00 -
[179] - Quote
Greetings, IGÇÖm Athechu a Commander (Assistant Team Lead) of ISD:STAR (In-game ISD). I am currently also helping out the ISD:CCL with the forums but I focus mainly on the EVE New Citizens Q&A section of the forums.
First please visit the ISD Wiki page and understand the differences of the teams. It will explain a lot more of what the teams within the ISD do. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISD
Reading through this thread and watching I see that that both sides have made mistakes. Posters that delibertly started to create spam/troll/argue threads in the forum and ISD members for not explaining which rules have been broken. Now the focus has been shifted to the ISD as being some kind of supreme evil overlords. We are players of the same game as you and we enjoy it like you. The difference is that we have decided to contribute our time to the community that makes EVE so great.
CCPGÇÖs Internal Affairs team watches over not only the ISD accounts but our player account(s) as well. If an individual of the ISD is found abusing their volunteer position CCP will take the appropriate actions. No ISD team has the ability to ban anyone from any server, or forum. But just like you we do have the ability to report problems to the appropriate people using the same methods. CCP internal teams handle all of that. If you have a reasonable suspicion that an ISD member is abusing his/her position in some way in the game, you can contact Internal Affairs directly by sending an e-mail to [email protected] or file a petition using the methods below (only choose one method).
In game: Press F12, click create new petition, Group: Rules and Policies, Category: Game Masters & ISD
Out of game: https://support.eveonline.com/Pages/Petitions/CreatePetition.aspx
Please remember to include forum links and a name of who you are reporting. This helps in insuring a timely investigation.
Fly safe! ISD Athechu Commander ISD STAR (Support Training and Resources) EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources |
|
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:40:00 -
[180] - Quote
. |
|
Pisov viet
Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore
68
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:49:00 -
[181] - Quote
Forums moderator anywhere are/turn into control freaks?
Tell us something we dont know. |
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:53:00 -
[182] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:Greetings, IGÇÖm Athechu a Commander (Assistant Team Lead) of ISD:STAR (In-game ISD). I am currently also helping out the ISD:CCL with the forums but I focus mainly on the EVE New Citizens Q&A section of the forums. First please visit the ISD Wiki page and understand the differences of the teams. It will explain a lot more of what the teams within the ISD do. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISDReading through this thread and watching I see that that both sides have made mistakes. Posters that delibertly started to create spam/troll/argue threads in the forum and ISD members for not explaining which rules have been broken. Now the focus has been shifted to the ISD as being some kind of supreme evil overlords. We are players of the same game as you and we enjoy it like you. The difference is that we have decided to contribute our time to the community that makes EVE so great. CCPGÇÖs Internal Affairs team watches over not only the ISD accounts but our player account(s) as well. If an individual of the ISD is found abusing their volunteer position CCP will take the appropriate actions. No ISD team has the ability to ban anyone from any server, or forum. But just like you we do have the ability to report problems to the appropriate people using the same methods. CCP internal teams handle all of that. If you have a reasonable suspicion that an ISD member is abusing his/her position in some way in the game, you can contact Internal Affairs directly by sending an e-mail to [email protected] or file a petition using the methods below (only choose one method). In game: Press F12, click create new petition, Group: Rules and Policies, Category: Game Masters & ISD Out of game: https://support.eveonline.com/Pages/Petitions/CreatePetition.aspxPlease remember to include forum links and a name of who you are reporting. This helps in insuring a timely investigation. Fly safe!
Hello,
I and a silent majority wholeheartedly support you and your heavy efforts in what is the most thankless job on the internets.
Know that you are appreciated and please don't give up. Don't listen to this garbage of humanity who sperg their nonsense all over this forum and dare to call it "freedom of speech".
Keep the good work,
One of many customers happy to see some moderation in this sea of spoiled childs ship poastings.
|
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:55:00 -
[183] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote: ISD members for not explaining which rules have been broken.
The initial issue was overreaching moderation of things that are well within the historical norms of the Forums along with stupendously unevenly applied rules and locks, and finally there's the matter of seemingly posting rationales at random. The last one is by far the least important. I'd post with my Main, but I don't think I'm allowed to, no matter how red his fortified wine is. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
752
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:56:00 -
[184] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:If you have a reasonable suspicion that an ISD member is abusing his/her position in some way in the game What about abusing their position on the forums?
Alaya Carrier wrote:I and a silent majority Talked to everyone have you? Incursions still need to be nerfed more. Cut payouts by 50% for all ships worth more than 10m. |
Ghost Xray
Hedion University Amarr Empire
99
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 07:57:00 -
[185] - Quote
Pisov viet wrote:Forums moderator anywhere are/turn into control freaks?
Tell us something we dont know.
When the people you're trying to moderate are acting like a bunch of baboons who just smoked a vat of bath salts, I can see why.
They need to start putting a lot of these monkeys back into their cages. |
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:00:00 -
[186] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:Greetings, IGÇÖm Athechu a Commander (Assistant Team Lead) of ISD:STAR (In-game ISD). I am currently also helping out the ISD:CCL with the forums but I focus mainly on the EVE New Citizens Q&A section of the forums. First please visit the ISD Wiki page and understand the differences of the teams. It will explain a lot more of what the teams within the ISD do. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISDReading through this thread and watching I see that that both sides have made mistakes. Posters that delibertly started to create spam/troll/argue threads in the forum and ISD members for not explaining which rules have been broken. Now the focus has been shifted to the ISD as being some kind of supreme evil overlords. We are players of the same game as you and we enjoy it like you. The difference is that we have decided to contribute our time to the community that makes EVE so great. CCPGÇÖs Internal Affairs team watches over not only the ISD accounts but our player account(s) as well. If an individual of the ISD is found abusing their volunteer position CCP will take the appropriate actions. No ISD team has the ability to ban anyone from any server, or forum. But just like you we do have the ability to report problems to the appropriate people using the same methods. CCP internal teams handle all of that. If you have a reasonable suspicion that an ISD member is abusing his/her position in some way in the game, you can contact Internal Affairs directly by sending an e-mail to [email protected] or file a petition using the methods below (only choose one method). In game: Press F12, click create new petition, Group: Rules and Policies, Category: Game Masters & ISD Out of game: https://support.eveonline.com/Pages/Petitions/CreatePetition.aspxPlease remember to include forum links and a name of who you are reporting. This helps in insuring a timely investigation. Fly safe!
I appreciate you making a statement. Forgive me if I cant take what you have said blindly. While I believe you are monitored by employees of CCP I dont believe its nearly has involved has it should be. Their have been problems on going since the CCL started and it is time that CCP address them and tell us if they are problems in their eyes or not.
I love everybut ISD has done over the years. Up until the CCL and the few bad eggs with the game evens awhile back I had nothing bad to say about the organization. We just want a more transparent and involved selection process for the moderators and for the guidelines they moderate by to be published by CCP so we know what they want out of the forums and the moderators have something that can keep them consistent with their moderation.
So, thank you. But, I think this isn't going to settle down till we have a Dev come in, or at the very least the CSM promise to look into it.
Regards, Jason Marshall |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
308
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:01:00 -
[187] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:Greetings, IGÇÖm Athechu a Commander (Assistant Team Lead) of ISD:STAR (In-game ISD). I am currently also helping out the ISD:CCL with the forums but I focus mainly on the EVE New Citizens Q&A section of the forums. First please visit the ISD Wiki page and understand the differences of the teams. It will explain a lot more of what the teams within the ISD do. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISDReading through this thread and watching I see that that both sides have made mistakes. Posters that delibertly started to create spam/troll/argue threads in the forum and ISD members for not explaining which rules have been broken. Now the focus has been shifted to the ISD as being some kind of supreme evil overlords. We are players of the same game as you and we enjoy it like you. The difference is that we have decided to contribute our time to the community that makes EVE so great. CCPGÇÖs Internal Affairs team watches over not only the ISD accounts but our player account(s) as well. If an individual of the ISD is found abusing their volunteer position CCP will take the appropriate actions. No ISD team has the ability to ban anyone from any server, or forum. But just like you we do have the ability to report problems to the appropriate people using the same methods. CCP internal teams handle all of that. If you have a reasonable suspicion that an ISD member is abusing his/her position in some way in the game, you can contact Internal Affairs directly by sending an e-mail to [email protected] or file a petition using the methods below (only choose one method). In game: Press F12, click create new petition, Group: Rules and Policies, Category: Game Masters & ISD Out of game: https://support.eveonline.com/Pages/Petitions/CreatePetition.aspxPlease remember to include forum links and a name of who you are reporting. This helps in insuring a timely investigation. Fly safe! I will expand on this and send you an email.
However, for now go dig up the petition I sent in just before this forum exploded once the warning signs were evident.
Your "Ensign" ISD representatives made an absolute hack job of CCP's forum today and guess what? Don't expect that evil and bumbling overlord tag to vanish any time soon.
People may want to contribute their spare time to moderating forums but moderation is much more subtle than locking threads and simply putting your hand up frankly isn't good enough. I see you see also obsessed with "rules" that have "been broken". This attitude simply is not sufficient to manage such a farrago. CCP shoud have never allowed such an "us and them" culture to take root here.
You call it "abuse" but I will call it incompetence through ignorance/lack of ability and suggest people email [email protected] for maximum visibility. EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:01:00 -
[188] - Quote
+1
T... |
|
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:05:00 -
[189] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote: The initial issue was overreaching moderation of things that are well within the historical norms of the Forums along with stupendously unevenly applied rules and locks, and finally there's the matter of seemingly posting rationales at random. The last one is by far the least important.
I am aware as I have been watching this all day long. We have followed our procedures and all I'm asking is that if you have a problem with a specific ISD member is not to get outraged and spam the forums causing more work for us and making you* look like the bad guy. But follow the procedure that I just gave you if someone in-game has a problem with the way a STAR moderates they get the same line.
* Not directed at you specifically
KrakizBad wrote:ISD Athechu wrote:If you have a reasonable suspicion that an ISD member is abusing his/her position in some way in the game What about abusing their position on the forums?
If their position is to deal with the forums than yes.
Please note I am not an officer of ISD:CCL and cannot speak for the team. I am here just to tell you how to handle a lock or deletion of a thread if you believe it was unjust or if you believe an ISD member is abusing their powers. If you have an issue please direct them to the CCL Recruitment thread for answers. I believe there is an email in that thread if you absolutely must contact a Team Lead of ISD:CCL. ISD Athechu Commander ISD STAR (Support Training and Resources) EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources |
|
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:09:00 -
[190] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: The initial issue was overreaching moderation of things that are well within the historical norms of the Forums along with stupendously unevenly applied rules and locks, and finally there's the matter of seemingly posting rationales at random. The last one is by far the least important.
I am aware as I have been watching this all day long. We have followed our procedures and all I'm asking is that if you have a problem with a specific ISD member is not to get outraged and spam the forums causing more work for us and making you* look like the bad guy. But follow the procedure that I just gave you. If someone in-game has a problem with the way a STAR moderates they get the same line. * Not directed at you specifically KrakizBad wrote:ISD Athechu wrote:If you have a reasonable suspicion that an ISD member is abusing his/her position in some way in the game What about abusing their position on the forums? If their position is to deal with the forums than yes. Please note I am not an officer of ISD:CCL and cannot speak for the team. I am here just to tell you how to handle a lock or deletion of a thread if you believe it was unjust or if you believe an ISD member is abusing their powers. If you have an issue please direct them to the CCL Recruitment thread for answers. I believe there is an email in that thread if you absolutely must contact a Team Lead of ISD:CCL.
Heavy handed with the perma ban hammers dont you think ?
T.. |
|
Alexzandvar Douglass
NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING En Garde
37
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:11:00 -
[191] - Quote
Diagnosis: Butthurt.
Seriously if you are quitting the game over the forums being managed correctly I don't even know what to say to you. |
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:12:00 -
[192] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:
I am aware as I have been watching this all day long. We have followed our procedures and all I'm asking is that if you have a problem with a specific ISD member is not to get outraged and spam the forums causing more work for us and making you* look like the bad guy. But follow the procedure that I just gave you. If someone in-game has a problem with the way a STAR moderates they get the same line.
Our issue isnt with one person its with the CCL has a whole. Its broken and we need to fix it now before it grows into the system any further.
- Jason Marshall |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
49
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:21:00 -
[193] - Quote
The ISD team seems to function after the principle of
STRENGTH THROUGH DISCIPLINE STRENGTH THROUGH COMMUNITY
and last but not least
STRENGTH THROUGH ACTION
cu in C&P /Wave
|
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:21:00 -
[194] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: The initial issue was overreaching moderation of things that are well within the historical norms of the Forums along with stupendously unevenly applied rules and locks, and finally there's the matter of seemingly posting rationales at random. The last one is by far the least important.
I am aware as I have been watching this all day long. We have followed our procedures and all I'm asking is that if you have a problem with a specific ISD member is not to get outraged and spam the forums causing more work for us and making you* look like the bad guy. But follow the procedure that I just gave you. If someone in-game has a problem with the way a STAR moderates they get the same line. * Not directed at you specifically
No, it's fine. I intentionally tried to touch this off (and succeeded reasonably well).
CCP has a very long history of never listening to its players until something loud happens. You only have to go as far back as this Fanfest when people told CCP "Hey, if you make PC kills drop LP for their cargo, someone's going to manipulate the market for incredible profit" to see evidence of this at work.
If it were just one bad egg in the CCL team, a quiet bunch of petitions might have worked, but the whole CCL idea is rotten from the core. Simply raising your hand does not give you the experience and light touch needed to moderate a forum like this.
We have always ragged on CCP. Always called CCP incompetent. And we almost mean it sometimes, but it's said out of love and with a hope that CCP will occasionally learn from their mistakes and improve. Editing and locking threads that simply express mild displeasure or hints of dissent is beyond the pale of the norms on these forums.
You say you've been watching this all day long. This has been going on for far longer, today just happens to be the day it boiled over. The heavy handed moderation has been going on since I noticed the ISDs moderating. Maybe they have rules about what they can and can't say, but not being able or willing to jump into a thread that's going haywire and calm it down without resorting to editing posts or locking threads means not being able to manage a forum of this size. Period.
STAR has a very, very different community to work with and has a much more controlled environment to work in. That's why they work so well (though I'd love to see their training budget improved). In the Rookie/Help channels, heavy handed moderation is just fine because everybody on the same page of Helping/Getting help. The forums are different.
Basically, unless CCP is willing to put in the effort to train CCLs on social grace and tact under fire (good luck), the CCL program will cause this type of thing again, and again, and so on and so forth.
-RubyPorto I'd post with my Main, but I don't think I'm allowed to, no matter how red his fortified wine is. |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
308
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:22:00 -
[195] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:1) Petitions cannot be discussed on the forums per CCP Forum Rules (Rule 9)...
Please note I am not an officer of ISD:CCL... Sorry but I don't think you are doing much but validate our perceptions of the ISD to be frank. EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:28:00 -
[196] - Quote
I am all for taming this forum till it becomes a regular MMO forum and not a crazy land where obsessed psychos explode all their repression and immature rants because they know that there will never be *consequences* for their actions.
In the other forums this is easily accomplished by banning all the offenders and letting them cool off.
So keep the good work, and make the EvE forums a place where to go and get information, not "trololol" and "ship toasting". |
Alexzandvar Douglass
NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING En Garde
38
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:31:00 -
[197] - Quote
Alaya Carrier wrote:I am all for taming this forum till it becomes a regular MMO forum and not a crazy land where obsessed psychos explode all their repression and immature rants because they know that there will never be *consequences* for their actions.
In the other forums this is easily accomplished by banning all the offenders and letting them cool off.
So keep the good work, and make the EvE forums a place where to go and get information, not "trololol" and "ship toasting".
Indeed, and is not dominated by Alliances going off on each other over their E-peens. |
Indo Nira
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:31:00 -
[198] - Quote
I am soooo disappointed. i thought i'd see a petition. a raging kid is not a petition... |
Mirime Nolwe
Mantra of Pain
47
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:32:00 -
[199] - Quote
Keep cleaning this forum please. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:32:00 -
[200] - Quote
Alaya Carrier wrote:I am all for taming this forum till it becomes a regular MMO forum and not a crazy land where obsessed psychos explode all their repression and immature rants because they know that there will never be *consequences* for their actions.
In the other forums this is easily accomplished by banning all the offenders and letting them cool off.
I really hope CCP doesn't listen to you. The EvE-O forums have always been better than most because of the open discussion that was possible. Excessive moderation and bans have a chilling effect on those sorts of (spectacularly productive, thoug not too polite) discussions.
Quote:So keep the good work, and make the EvE forums a place where to go and get information, not "trololol" and "ship toasting".
So I guess this should be banned?
That's certainly shiptoasting and trolling. I'd post with my Main, but I don't think I'm allowed to, no matter how red his fortified wine is. |
|
pussnheels
432
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:33:00 -
[201] - Quote
isn t this a bit over the top just about every large gaming company is using volunteers to moderate their forums
Just give them a chance to proof that they are capable of moderating these forums in a fair and neutral way I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:36:00 -
[202] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:isn t this a bit over the top just about every large gaming company is using volunteers to moderate their forums
Just give them a chance to proof that they are capable of moderating these forums in a fair and neutral way
We have. They have been found un-able.
Someone pay Dark Shikari to come back and moderate. |
DeBingJos
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
310
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:38:00 -
[203] - Quote
Less moderation is better than censorship. Locking threads and deleting posts should be the last thing a moderator does. A polite reply with (maybe) some mild humor would do a lot to get most threads back on topic.
Locking is bad m'kay. Fix FW ! |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
308
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:39:00 -
[204] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:isn t this a bit over the top just about every large gaming company is using volunteers to moderate their forums
Just give them a chance to proof that they are capable of moderating these forums in a fair and neutral way Yes, but I've seen it done a lot better than this.
They can "proof" (sic) what they like but the last 12 hours was appalling.
EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
131
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:39:00 -
[205] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Alaya Carrier wrote:I am all for taming this forum till it becomes a regular MMO forum and not a crazy land where obsessed psychos explode all their repression and immature rants because they know that there will never be *consequences* for their actions.
In the other forums this is easily accomplished by banning all the offenders and letting them cool off.
I really hope CCP doesn't listen to you. The EvE-O forums have always been better than most because of the open discussion that was possible. Excessive moderation and bans have a chilling effect on those sorts of (spectacularly productive, thoug not too polite) discussions. Quote:So keep the good work, and make the EvE forums a place where to go and get information, not "trololol" and "ship toasting". So I guess this should be banned? That's certainly shiptoasting and trolling. OOPE is very different than GD don't you agree? |
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:39:00 -
[206] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Alaya Carrier wrote:I am all for taming this forum till it becomes a regular MMO forum and not a crazy land where obsessed psychos explode all their repression and immature rants because they know that there will never be *consequences* for their actions.
In the other forums this is easily accomplished by banning all the offenders and letting them cool off.
I really hope CCP doesn't listen to you. The EvE-O forums have always been better than most because of the open discussion that was possible. Excessive moderation and bans have a chilling effect on those sorts of (spectacularly productive, thoug not too polite) discussions.
Just the very fact you are circumventing a ban would you get all your accounts perma banned in most other MMOS. This happens expecially in strongly organization structured MMOs of course.
Maybe it's time CCP starts a stronger approach both against cheaters and forum specialized trolls.
There are at least two "alternative" EvE forums, people should feel free to go sperg over there. |
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:42:00 -
[207] - Quote
Graic Gabtar wrote:pussnheels wrote:isn t this a bit over the top just about every large gaming company is using volunteers to moderate their forums
Just give them a chance to proof that they are capable of moderating these forums in a fair and neutral way Yes, but I've seen it done a lot better than this. They can "proof" (sic) what they like but the last 12 hours was appalling.
The last twelve hours was alot of people unable to stay silent about their displeasure with the new system. We say back and watched for a bit and decided we needed to get CCP aware of problems with the system. Something that wouldn't have happened if we had just all sent in our own petitions because CCP wont discuss petitions. And this is something that needs to be discussed. |
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:47:00 -
[208] - Quote
Alaya Carrier wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Alaya Carrier wrote:I am all for taming this forum till it becomes a regular MMO forum and not a crazy land where obsessed psychos explode all their repression and immature rants because they know that there will never be *consequences* for their actions.
In the other forums this is easily accomplished by banning all the offenders and letting them cool off.
I really hope CCP doesn't listen to you. The EvE-O forums have always been better than most because of the open discussion that was possible. Excessive moderation and bans have a chilling effect on those sorts of (spectacularly productive, thoug not too polite) discussions. Just the very fact you are circumventing a ban would you get all your accounts perma banned in most other MMOS. This happens expecially in strongly organization structured MMOs of course. Maybe it's time CCP starts a stronger approach both against cheaters and forum specialized trolls. There are at least two "alternative" EvE forums, people should feel free to go sperg over there.
Ok, I generally don't comment on peoples spelling and grammar. I believe you can have very valid and relevant posts without having perfect spelling and grammar. But I dont think you quite phrased what you meant in the right way with "This happens expecially in strongly organization structured MMOs of course."
Thats fine I think I got the gist of it though.
Alot of us have expressed that if CCP really intends to have a more rigid none creative forum then thats fine. We would respect that. But we want that in CCP writing before we stop fighting for the community hub we have know and loved for almost a decade now.
Also, their are trolls on both sides of this. Its not trolls versus ISD on this one. Its people who know the system one way and have seen a drastic change in how that system is being moderated versus the people who want a more WoW like forum.
Also you clearly don't care very much for this issue, you aren't even posting on your main. |
|
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
30
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:50:00 -
[209] - Quote
Pipa Porto - Great post I will make sure the CCL Leads/CCL Team sees it.
Graic Gabtar wrote:ISD Athechu wrote:1) Petitions cannot be discussed on the forums per CCP Forum Rules (Rule 9)...
Please note I am not an officer of ISD:CCL... Sorry but I don't think you are doing much but validate our perceptions of the ISD to be frank.
To be frank as well my job isn't to change your perception. All I'm doing is stating how to go about properly reporting something if you happen to disagree with it. Create one thread with specific issues that the community has. I can point you to https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96986 that was brought up to a STAR Lead who answered the question and it was left at that. There was no mass uprising or anything of that nature. ISD Athechu Commander ISD STAR (Support Training and Resources) EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources |
|
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 08:52:00 -
[210] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:Pipa Porto - Great post I will make sure the CCL Leads/CCL Team sees it. Graic Gabtar wrote:ISD Athechu wrote:1) Petitions cannot be discussed on the forums per CCP Forum Rules (Rule 9)...
Please note I am not an officer of ISD:CCL... Sorry but I don't think you are doing much but validate our perceptions of the ISD to be frank. To be frank as well my job isn't to change your perception. All I'm doing is stating how to go about properly reporting something if you happen to disagree with it. Create one thread with specific issues that the community has. I can point you to https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=96986 that was brought up to a STAR Lead who answered the question and it was left at that. There was no mass uprising or anything of that nature.
Please make sure it also lands on the CCP employee's desk that directly oversees them.
All of ISD has done a great job over the years we would like you to keep on doing the good work! Its the new group we are having problems with. |
|
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:01:00 -
[211] - Quote
Jason Auralis wrote:Also you clearly don't care very much for this issue, you aren't even posting on your main.
Oh I do care, but my main ATM is unsubbed. If you send me a PLEX I'll immediately reactivate and start posting on it, ok?
|
Bruce Wie
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:04:00 -
[212] - Quote
wait you havent been inappropriately moved or locked wow |
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:07:00 -
[213] - Quote
Bruce Wie wrote:wait you havent been inappropriately moved or locked wow
Yeah someone came along and cleaned the thread nicely. I believe it was the German Community Manager. Seems to be the only active one that might have the necessary privileges. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1081
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:17:00 -
[214] - Quote
#storm_in_a_teacup My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Dsan
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:17:00 -
[215] - Quote
ISDs get paid !? Where can I sign up ? I'll revolutionize that ****.
I make chop change for the stuff I do else where that the ISDs should be doing... Go read my blog at: www.eveblog.dsan.dk
Or follow me on twitter: http://twitter.com/Dsan_dk |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
177
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:18:00 -
[216] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote: I can understand why you would want to have the guidelines published, but as with many things in EVE, if they were to publish them, people would abuse them and attempt to find loopholes, which in turn would just create more spam and less actual content.
What guidelines? The definition of content is subjective. There are no guidelines.
The forum rules are published. They're using the same forum rules we are. They're just using them to make judgments on what is and what is not satisfactory content. It's an opinion.
...
It's not really fair to call for dissolving the ISD if the issue is primarily with forum moderation. The volunteers who give advice in rookie help or who devote themselves to creating EvE fan fiction are pretty selfless and we should thank those guys.
But what is art? Who can answer that?
What metric determines content value?
There's no way for a CCL member to know if a rumor is true:
Rumor:: "I heard from a...very...reliable source that the Mittani is going to fly through high sec in a freighter full of zydrine escorted by 1000 frigates to give full jetcans to everyone demonstrating his benevolence. Tomorrow."
Now what are the CCLs going to do? Ask him if its true? It's silly to even suggest it possible to know if a rumor is true.
Even the devs are guilty. Following the Goon FW Eve-**** a few days ago, and following the announcement that assets had been seized, the 150 page topic on the subject was locked. Of course that only spawned new GD topics on the issue, one of which was brought down by Goliath himself with a "No content - thread locked." I actually lol'ed when I saw that.
So I guess I agree that the moderation has been pretty heavy-handed. I logged into GD the other night and 7 topics on page one were locked. Wow. That's a lot of hammer. It looked odd. I suspect some of this will be self-correcting though. If a CCL member edits one post too many and spawns 1000 more that also will not meet his definition of content, he'll only be increasing his own workload. Let's see how long that lasts.
How about instead of trying to determine what is or is not a rumor or what constitutes content, why not just create another forum section for the kiddos? Moderate GD as necessary and invite dev feedback here. Serious folk can be as serious as they like, spam-free. But in the new unfiltered section (called "the Void" or something) you moderate language and personal attacks but make no conclusions about content value. This would be a much better option.
When "adults" are trying to socialize in a room with noisy children, the solution isn't to tie the kids up and gag them.
You give them toys.
No matter what kind of content they're contributing, if players are logged into CCP's forums, they're not spending time doing something else.
Yonis Kador "He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day." |
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
170
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:20:00 -
[217] - Quote
the isd responses in this thread have been golden imo.
havent watched the forum that hard to see the abuse. will take a look over. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
204
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:28:00 -
[218] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:We are players of the same game as you and we enjoy it like you. The difference is that we have decided to contribute our time to the community that makes EVE so great. /signed
In contrast to the rest of us slackers who create all the content on these forums and in-game this gentleman has chosen to contribute something positive to the "community" by playing forum mod in his spare time.
We all should follow his example. |
Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
42
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:32:00 -
[219] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
I'd be fine with not. It's still the type of people who Volunteer at a For-Profit
Obviously CCP are Amarr...
Eve forums official anthem:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA |
Alpharius Sanguine
Project POZ
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:39:00 -
[220] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:ISD Athechu wrote:We are players of the same game as you and we enjoy it like you. The difference is that we have decided to contribute our time to the community that makes EVE so great. /signed In contrast to the rest of us slackers who create all the content on these forums and in-game this gentleman has chosen to contribute something positive to the "community" by playing forum mod in his spare time. We all should follow his example.
I lol-ed
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Jace Errata
Lawlz Brawlz
210
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:42:00 -
[221] - Quote
Yeah, the CCL does seem to be a bit...um...over-zealous. Like moving one of GD's older, longer threads (complete with dev/GM posts) to OOPE. Stealth OST puns and blatant lies since 2009 Jace Errata on Twitter
One day they woke me up so I could live forever It's such a shame the same will never happen to you |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
178
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:44:00 -
[222] - Quote
ISD forum moderation suck. This is EvE Online forums, not kindergarten forums. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1508
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:47:00 -
[223] - Quote
While forum moderation discussions as per our forum rules not allowed on our forums, we of course allow and welcome constructive feedback and suggestions of how to improve our CCL program.
Forum moderation discussion for example would be discussing why a thread was locked, why a post was edited or why some moderator performed a specific action etc. If you have questions about specific moderation actions, the only proper way for asking questions is to file a petition.
Constructive feedback in general would include suggestions on how to improve the CCL in general without pointing to specific moderation actions or moderators.
Our goal is to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community on our forums and we are constantly working towards this goal - even though we sometimes have to work a little harder CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:49:00 -
[224] - Quote
Yes we have rules. But you cant have a group of moderators enforcing rules if they don't all interpret them the same way. A forum this large with so many varied ideas and just posts needs to have some guidelines for the moderators. Alot of very unique and impressive things have come from ideas posted on these forums that would have been locked by the CCL has trolls or spam. The original ISS proposition would have been locked within an hour. Most all of the first IPOs would have been seen has trolling because they were so outside the norm of what had been done in eve up until then. Hell BIG Lottos OP probably would have gotten a spam lock.
You cant strangle moderate these forums if you don't want them to turn out like every other MMO community out their. Imagine all the future marketing materials you could be losing CCP?
CCP Phantom wrote:While forum moderation discussions as per our forum rules not allowed on our forums, we of course allow and welcome constructive feedback and suggestions of how to improve our CCL program. Forum moderation discussion for example would be discussing why a thread was locked, why a post was edited or why some moderator performed a specific action etc. If you have questions about specific moderation actions, the only proper way for asking questions is to file a petition. Constructive feedback in general would include suggestions on how to improve the CCL in general without pointing to specific moderation actions or moderators. Our goal is to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community on our forums and we are constantly working towards this goal - even though we sometimes have to work a little harder
In this situation we cant discuss whats wrong or give examples of why something needs to change without referring to specific moderation. Its why what happened happened. We cant use the petition system because their is no visibility so it boils down to being one person getting a response that usually just boiled down to a link pointed at the ISD Wiki page. |
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
717
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:50:00 -
[225] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:#storm_in_a_teacup
+1
The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars. |
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:51:00 -
[226] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Constructive feedback in general would include suggestions on how to improve the CCL in general without pointing to specific moderation actions or moderators. Our goal is to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community on our forums and we are constantly working towards this goal - even though we sometimes have to work a little harder
You guys rock! The forums were left "abandoned" to themselves for a lot of time, it was about time somebody took some initiative to clean them up a bit. Some say they are "adults" as excuse to be rude and trollish but these are hardly signs of being adult.
Also, General Discussion is the first or the second forum where a new player will go to seek information about the game or even just to "taste" how is the current game status. Had I been a new player reading the past days (and more) GD discussions, I'd understand EvE is some madmen asylum and would have quit.
Is this constructive feedback?
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DeBingJos
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
312
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:54:00 -
[227] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Our goal is to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community on our forums and we are constantly working towards this goal - even though we sometimes have to work a little harder
What happend to 'Eve is a cold harsh universe'? Fix FW ! |
captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:54:00 -
[228] - Quote
ISDs lock good threads and completely miss troll threads and posts. There's your problem. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
179
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:55:00 -
[229] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:While forum moderation discussions as per our forum rules not allowed on our forums, we of course allow and welcome constructive feedback and suggestions of how to improve our CCL program. Forum moderation discussion for example would be discussing why a thread was locked, why a post was edited or why some moderator performed a specific action etc. If you have questions about specific moderation actions, the only proper way for asking questions is to file a petition. Constructive feedback in general would include suggestions on how to improve the CCL in general without pointing to specific moderation actions or moderators. Our goal is to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community on our forums and we are constantly working towards this goal - even though we sometimes have to work a little harder
Warm, friendly atmosphere doesn't fit the EvE cold and ruthless universe theme. This type of moderation is a 180-¦ change on what EvE forums used to be. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Sirinda
Aliastra Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:58:00 -
[230] - Quote
Warm, friendly atmosphere where applicable. Have you ever heard of atmosphere in space? |
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Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:01:00 -
[231] - Quote
I don't get it - the ISD responses fit EVE spirit - scamming and murdering. This "fluffly warm atmosphere thing" sounds like Hello Kitty atmosphere. Suddenly the tough guys get all sensitive about some random crap that isn't worth it's own thread. Boohooo cry me a river of isk. |
Pahah Pahineh
Universal Ally
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:02:00 -
[232] - Quote
When you choose to cry over barbie shirts instead of CCP taking tens of thousands of dollars for a rigged alliance tournament, you basically get what you deserve.
I'd say gtfo, go back to wow, but Eve, CCP and it's new barbiefag customer base deserve each other in every conceivable way. |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1508
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:04:00 -
[233] - Quote
DeBingJos wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:Our goal is to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community on our forums and we are constantly working towards this goal - even though we sometimes have to work a little harder What happend to 'Eve is a cold harsh universe'?
The preamble which I just have quoted is really old and not new at all. EVE Online is a cold and harsh universe - and that is good.
Our forums however are governed by our forum rules - and that is good too. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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HeruRaHa
Baby Seal Bashing Club Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:06:00 -
[234] - Quote
I have already let my main expire just through pure apathy with the state of this game and especially it's level of nonexistent customer service or tact. For years the forums are what kept me interested in EVE and ultimately made me start up my old accounts and get an alt. The humour and hilarious threads and light hearted but fair GM's made it for me. After several years I have to say that the attitudes towards customers and what is allowed to pass for interactions with the community is nothing but pathetic anymore.
CCP had one chance to save it's ass after Incarna and it has shown that it will still blunder just like it did before but will now redact, censure, insult and provoke it's customers. If you guys want to come to a decent light hearted forum with GM's that actually know what they are doing and where you can have banners and image linking directly in threads without the soup **** bastards come to the Mech Warrior Online forums.
I suspect a lot of us will be seeing each other there soon.
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
179
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:12:00 -
[235] - Quote
HeruRaHa wrote:I have already let my main expire just through pure apathy with the state of this game and especially it's level of nonexistent customer service or tact. For years the forums are what kept me interested in EVE and ultimately made me start up my old accounts and get an alt. The humour and hilarious threads and light hearted but fair GM's made it for me. After several years I have to say that the attitudes towards customers and what is allowed to pass for interactions with the community is nothing but pathetic anymore.
CCP had one chance to save it's ass after Incarna and it has shown that it will still blunder just like it did before but will now redact, censure, insult and provoke it's customers. If you guys want to come to a decent light hearted forum with GM's that actually know what they are doing and where you can have banners and image linking directly in threads without the soup **** bastards come to the Mech Warrior Online forums.
I suspect a lot of us will be seeing each other there soon.
The EvE forums is half of the EvE experience for me, or at least used to be...
You could actually "play EvE at work". If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off Imperial Ascension
420
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:13:00 -
[236] - Quote
The whole issue sounds to me less like one of moderation and more like one of ego.
I get the impression that a (limited) number of ISD forum mods have decided that rather than trying to manage and moderate the usual douchebaggery and annoyance that you usually find on forums, they have instead gone full tyrant and set out to crush all resistance to their authority.
You can get away with that, but only if you're respected by the majority of the people. At this point it's fair to say the ISD has probably gone too far and lost the support of a large number of those which would typically agree with them. |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:15:00 -
[237] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:While forum moderation discussions as per our forum rules not allowed on our forums, we of course allow and welcome constructive feedback and suggestions of how to improve our CCL program. Forum moderation discussion for example would be discussing why a thread was locked, why a post was edited or why some moderator performed a specific action etc. If you have questions about specific moderation actions, the only proper way for asking questions is to file a petition. Constructive feedback in general would include suggestions on how to improve the CCL in general without pointing to specific moderation actions or moderators. Our goal is to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community on our forums and we are constantly working towards this goal - even though we sometimes have to work a little harder
Make it a warm friendly place by silencing the voices of descent. Sad.
|
Luis Graca
90
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:19:00 -
[238] - Quote
i don't get it
If "Eve is a cold harsh universe" and this forums are a part of EVE why shouldn't "Eve forums are a cold harsh universe" |
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:22:00 -
[239] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:i don't get it If "Eve is a cold harsh universe" and this forums are a part of EVE why shouldn't "Eve forums are a cold harsh universe"
Douchebaggery <> being harsh.
There are ways to express a lot, in a proper way. The Goons "FW LP" thread was left intact for days despite they were smug vs CCP themselves.
You don't need to have your mouth filled with abuse and trolling to look "cold and harsh". |
Ghost Xray
Hedion University Amarr Empire
99
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:24:00 -
[240] - Quote
I enjoy watching the nerdrage and the fists of [EvE] God crushing every malcontents soul.
This isn't a democracy. This is a dictatorship. You don't get to vote by committee how things are to be run around here. If you quit because of this, then I'll give you the proper goodbye salute and say "about your stuff, yeah, you know what I want".
Get out old forum sperglings.
|
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Luis Graca
91
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:27:00 -
[241] - Quote
Alaya Carrier wrote:Luis Graca wrote:i don't get it If "Eve is a cold harsh universe" and this forums are a part of EVE why shouldn't "Eve forums are a cold harsh universe" Douchebaggery <> being harsh. There are ways to express a lot, in a proper way. The Goons "FW LP" thread was left intact for days despite they were smug vs CCP themselves. You don't need to have your mouth filled with abuse and trolling to look "cold and harsh".
You know "in a proper way" can meant something to you and something completely different to me
|
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
310
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:28:00 -
[242] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:To be frank as well my job isn't to change your perception. All I'm doing is stating how to go about properly reporting something if you happen to disagree with it. Create one thread with specific issues that the community has. I decided to volunteer to help CCL out since they are a new team and I enjoy helping others and this just allows me to do so through another medium. Let us be honest you don't have a job, you volunteer. I'm not trying to deride your efforts but it is what it is.
Game forum moderators lack insights into most of what happens in the company and can ironically feel more annoyance as they not only need to toe the party line publicly but get little information from inside it. For example, I can logically argue on the forum about terrible support and create a great deal of noise doing it. My case might be compelling, but you can't really agree with me in any way. And like most other companies you can't verify claims unless you can get a response from an employee. Extend this to production problems, security breaches or cheating accusations and your lot is to do free PR and first level support. As a volunteer.
However, if your moderation team or overseers have no vested interest in changing the customers perception that the ISD shouldn't be trusted with a burnt match let alone their main communications asset then you should review your "job" description. Any volunteer moderator is only as useful as the last email complaint campaign. I'm not trying to be rude it is a fact and the culture of moderation here of lock, lock, quote rule, lock (not just restricted to the ISD) is very ordinary.
Thank you for the contact information, I will use it.
Finally though, this putting your hand up to help in other ways stuff is not Robinson Crusoe material. It's done widely and done a lot more effectively than here with the draconian, neat little bow rules that prevent any discussion of the environment that we all interact in by shuffling off everyone who complains to fill in a petition.
This only exacerbates the rage by the truly rancid petition response times and for me a complete lack of comprehension by the support staff every time I have had to contact them.
The most recent example was the banning of this character because the moderator in question did not understand the grammatical context of a post I had made. It was two weeks before it was escalated and reversed - with an apology I was grateful to get.
However, it was two of the most frustrating two weeks ever and because nothing can officially be discussed it's te most effective way to bury things.
I understand much of this is beyond your remit but is all interconnected if you want a sane forum.
I can see it now, you going to let these "Ensigns" fly without a net once CCP punish "The Five" and the swarm descends? EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:42:00 -
[243] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote: Warm, friendly atmosphere doesn't fit the EvE cold and ruthless universe theme. This type of moderation is a 180-¦ change on what EvE forums used to be.
Trouble is, that "Eve is a cold and ruthless universe theme" has kinda been interpreted by a lot of people as "I'm going to act like a selfish, entitled child". The forum rules have basically been ignored for a long time, and it's probably about time they got enforced.
Which is not to say I 100% agree with how things have been handled. Sometimes it's the silliness and rumours and stuff that help give a community character, and these shouldn't immediately be dismissed as content-free posts or spam. On the other hand it seems we're in one breath demanding to be treated like adults, but then voice our displeasure in the most childish way. If we take the view that this board is a community area, let's start behaving like one. A bit of self-restraint isn't a bad thing. I'd bet that if the forum behaviour was a little more mature in general, we would never have gotten into this situation with some ISDs feeling they needed to be so strict.
So, like the other guy said, mistakes made on both sides. Hopefully both sides change a little.
|
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:43:00 -
[244] - Quote
Putting volunteers whom you select from the community between yourself and the community with no real notice has to your selection ideologies makes for alot of questions about those volunteers and what their real purpose is. |
Ghost Xray
Hedion University Amarr Empire
99
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:52:00 -
[245] - Quote
Jason Auralis wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:**** posting is **** posting.
What was going on last night was as pathetic as hi-sec (fail) pvp; people were activally trying to get every thread on the first page of GD locked.
Go gank a hulk or something..... If we all did that then the only thing on the front page GD would be hulk pilots demanding better protections in empire.
Instead, we have you demanding better protection here. I'm not sure which I find more annoying. |
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:52:00 -
[246] - Quote
Ghost Xray wrote:Jason Auralis wrote:Putting volunteers whom you select from the community between yourself and the community with no real notice has to your selection ideologies makes for alot of questions about those volunteers and what their real purpose is. Jesus dude. I know it's EvE and all, but are you suggesting these guys are infiltrating the ISD and planning to take over EvE-O? Now that I think about it, it sounds like something the Goons would do. You may be onto something here.
Its funny how they keep reiterating that they are eve-players. Like that should make us all feel better given then lack of anything beyond basic requirements and a few paragraphs in a wiki. |
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
556
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:53:00 -
[247] - Quote
YES. Please dissolve the forum team. I have seen perfectly good threads with real conversation get locked for absolutely no good reason. They have no idea what they're doing and they do not belong here, at least not with any power to do anything.
|
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
310
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:54:00 -
[248] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:The whole issue sounds to me less like one of moderation and more like one of ego.
I get the impression that a (limited) number of ISD forum mods have decided that rather than trying to manage and moderate the usual douchebaggery and annoyance that you usually find on forums, they have instead gone full tyrant and set out to crush all resistance to their authority.
You can get away with that, but only if you're respected by the majority of the people. At this point it's fair to say the ISD has probably gone too far and lost the support of a large number of those which would typically agree with them. I always used to say to moderators who wanted to have a crackdown something along the lines of, "You can only do it for so long, but the second you ease up from lack of energy, the need to sleep or you are overwhelmed you've just become inconsistent. And that is probably worse than the problem you were trying to solve."
EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1170
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:58:00 -
[249] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:DeBingJos wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:Our goal is to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community on our forums and we are constantly working towards this goal - even though we sometimes have to work a little harder What happend to 'Eve is a cold harsh universe'? The preamble which I just have quoted is really old and not new at all. EVE Online is a cold and harsh universe - and that is good.Our forums however are governed by our forum rules - and that is good too.
apparently not five trillion isk harsh ^____________^ |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:01:00 -
[250] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:isn t this a bit over the top just about every large gaming company is using volunteers to moderate their forums
.... and the official forums of just about any other MMO on the market are not worth reading.
for eve a lot of the discussion has stayed on the official forums for an amazingly long time.
sure RPers have chatsubo & backstage, null-sec has kugu and fhc may be the best place if you are looking for ship fittings and bittervets, ...
.... but on the whole a huge part of the discussion still takes place on eve-o where moderators have traditionally respected the individual style of each subforum (e.g. CAOD vs C&P vs MD vs GD vs ... each of the forum sections has a different tradition to what degree and how consistently the forum rules are enforced).
Putting pressure on these communities to migrate to 3rd party sites does imho no service to the overall eve community - much nicer when players have one place to go to and the different sub-communities have opportunity to intermingle a bit. |
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Fenella
Dangermouse Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:02:00 -
[251] - Quote
People that can't cope with living within the loose constaints of a forum moderated by individuals with the freedom to apply their own judgement as and when they deem fit should GTFO.
There are millions of other forums in the web to troll your rubbish on that are completely unmoderated and a complete ****fest, go there.
It's not your god given right to be able to post here. People arn't banned often enough. |
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
558
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:05:00 -
[252] - Quote
Fenella wrote:People that can't cope with living within the loose constaints of a forum moderated by individuals with the freedom to apply their own judgement as and when they deem fit should GTFO.
There are millions of other forums in the web to troll your rubbish on that are completely unmoderated and a complete ****fest, go there.
It's not your god given right to be able to post here. People arn't banned often enough.
Who the fudge-sicle-eatin'-pizza-chicken-lovin' crap ARE you?
|
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
115
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:05:00 -
[253] - Quote
Face it, your posts may not be the hugely creative works of beauty you think they are.
Entitled tears = best tears |
Maledictum Aideron
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:14:00 -
[254] - Quote
Malphilos wrote:Face it, your posts may not be the hugely creative works of beauty you think they are.
Entitled tears = best tears
Bahahahaha!
|
Fenella
Dangermouse Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:16:00 -
[255] - Quote
Meryl SinGarda wrote:Fenella wrote:People that can't cope with living within the loose constaints of a forum moderated by individuals with the freedom to apply their own judgement as and when they deem fit should GTFO.
There are millions of other forums in the web to troll your rubbish on that are completely unmoderated and a complete ****fest, go there.
It's not your god given right to be able to post here. People arn't banned often enough. Who the fudge-sicle-eatin'-pizza-chicken-lovin' crap ARE you?
A total nobody, same as everyone else here. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
354
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:17:00 -
[256] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:While forum moderation discussions as per our forum rules not allowed on our forums, we of course allow and welcome constructive feedback and suggestions of how to improve our CCL program. Forum moderation discussion for example would be discussing why a thread was locked, why a post was edited or why some moderator performed a specific action etc. If you have questions about specific moderation actions, the only proper way for asking questions is to file a petition. Constructive feedback in general would include suggestions on how to improve the CCL in general without pointing to specific moderation actions or moderators. Our goal is to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community on our forums and we are constantly working towards this goal - even though we sometimes have to work a little harder
Well sorry but somehow I can agree with Morganta, for some is not about moderation but wizzard hunting and some threads even thou not ultra interesting about CCP and their employees or about the game it self, a part of the community takes part to that game and have some fun together.
I mean c'mon, makes years the nerd guy posts crap threads at least once per week when it's not once per day, and it's only one example, there are dozens of them. Some trolling is fun when it's nicely done in the appropriate manner, insulting threads/answers are there by hundreds and don't see those ban or thread lock.
Just close forum, easier and simple to tell the hole community liking to join here and spend a couple min sharing stuff with new players or just enoying /tount each other for fun, gfto. brb |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
643
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:26:00 -
[257] - Quote
While I don't really care about this in the same way that many in this thread do, I can point out specific examples of ISD not knowing what it is they're doing.......
Active threads that have been in GD since Incarna with +100 pages getting moved to OOPE. Regardless if those threads weren't what CCP considered GD material, they're part of it now. And everyone knows OOPE is a death sentence to a thread.
When something like that occurs CCP really needs to ask 3 questions, 1) Have we given ISD enough training to do the job & 2) If we have, then do these ISD have a clue & 3) If they don't, maybe we should find people who "get it"? We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
488
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:28:00 -
[258] - Quote
Ghost Xray wrote:Jason Auralis wrote:Putting volunteers whom you select from the community between yourself and the community with no real notice has to your selection ideologies makes for alot of questions about those volunteers and what their real purpose is. Jesus dude. I know it's EvE and all, but are you suggesting these guys are infiltrating the ISD and planning to take over EvE-O? Now that I think about it, it sounds like something the Goons would do. You may be onto something here.
No. Goons would just make you think they were doing it, then not actually do it, because moderating this forum is too much effort for them. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
74
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:32:00 -
[259] - Quote
Moderating forums is too much for for a member of Goonswarm? |
Shirakus
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:36:00 -
[260] - Quote
Morganta wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Jason Marshall wrote:recreated I'd be fine with not. It's still the type of people who Volunteer at a For-Profit I'm kind of wanting to know if they are paying customers or PLEXers kind of silly letting free play types run your income stream off to another game
People who pay with PLEX are paying customers to, they just pay with someone elses money. In the end, CCP get the same amount of money per account from them to. |
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
180
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:38:00 -
[261] - Quote
Im also opening a petition about this issue. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
50
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:42:00 -
[262] - Quote
...moderating a forum is already part of metagaming as it seems... |
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
54
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:47:00 -
[263] - Quote
I don't see a problem with the moderation. So far it's fine. However I would ban those idiots who are opening useless threads over and over. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
488
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:48:00 -
[264] - Quote
SmashTech wrote:Moderating forums is too much for for a member of Goonswarm?
Moderating forums? No. Moderating the eve-o forums? Oh god yes. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
358
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:53:00 -
[265] - Quote
While I agree that these forums need to be cleaned up, the heavy handed and in a lot of cases confusing moderation that has been performed in the last month has destroyed the very basis of the forums them selves.
All sorts of things have been cut for lack of content or off topic posts. Some have even been moved from GD and placed in the wrong forum.
Sending a petition is useless as the petition system is completely broken and not transparent.
I personally feel that CCP has ruled the forums are no longer part of the meta game and are just for talking kindly about thoughts and ideas. That might be all well and good except it doesn't really give a reason for GD to exist at all.
The current moderation levels remind me more of the CCCPs actions on freedom of speech. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
Velicia Tuoro
Light Speed Interactive The Mockers AO
82
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:56:00 -
[266] - Quote
There definitely needs to be some training of the ISD guys.
So far they have:
a) Deleted (not locked! Deleted!) one of my posts as a duplicate of another, despite it having different content, from a different for Corporation. b) After asking for it to be restored they did, but then moved an in-character post out of the IC forum and locked the the one they believe it was a duplicate of. This means the the other Corp don't have a thread they can use for their updates and I'd expect if they created a new one it would be locked...
Worst thing? No communication at all. They should be mailing me if there is a problem so I can sort it out, rather than getting all heavy handed and DELETING stuff. Senior Representative Light Speed Interactive http://www.lightspeedinteractive.net |
svenska flicka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:56:00 -
[267] - Quote
What is there to moderate? These forums are dead anyway. |
Evil Stare
The Ghosts of Jutland
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:58:00 -
[268] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.
ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.
Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy.
Saddly, this is me. :( |
stoicfaux
1154
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 12:09:00 -
[269] - Quote
My .02 isk.
The only thing I saw was a bunch of players willfully posting an extreme number of posts specifically designed to provoke a response from the moderators. i.e. they were deliberately trolling the mods.
I have no idea what the original problem was that was being protested.
Thus, I have no sympathy for the trolls/protesters, I have no evidence of wrong-doing by the mods, and I'm of the opinion that the trolls should be banned and CCP needs to formalize and republish their forum guidelines.
disclaimer: And no, I'm not going to read through the previous seven pages in this thread to hear the protester/troll side of things. After watching the first page fill up with locked troll threads yesterday, I have no goodwill left. I'll rely on CCP to do the legwork.
/grumble
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
410
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 12:56:00 -
[270] - Quote
OP Really ? These are forums, nothing more. I put very little value on GD. About 1 in what 100 or 200 threads has an actual discussion.
Finally ISD is doing a great job so nope
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
|
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1358
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 12:59:00 -
[271] - Quote
The main problem seems to be the ISDs have little to no experience in the field and are likely bad posters themselves.
They mistake ad-hominem discussion and glib remarks as personal attacks when they are clearly anything but, and so starts the deletions and locks, followed by bans (whoever reviews that is unknown).
There is a difference between "you are stupid" and "your argument is stupid" but the ISDs seem unable to see that.
There was a great thread in new-players last week where the "apparent" new player started a thread calling PVPers evil (and other expletives) and the ISD went ahead and deleted about half the thread as "trolling" despite it mostly being little more than a defensive stance from most. The OP remained, with just the cusses snipped. Let's also not forget Jades rampant conspiracy theories which largely went unmoderated, yet replies calling him out on it were repeatedly deleted as "personal attacks" -- apparently responding to a personal attack is bad, but starting a thread which is one long slander piece (repeatedly) is OK? Right.
This is silly.
You need to realise that eve-search exists and we can see the thread pre-moderation at any point, and people can draw their own conclusions which are largely poor.
If the ISD scheme is to continue it needs to do so in a different way, because volunteers simply can't be held accountable in the same way as staff (wage pressure) and I suspect this is part of the reason why the quality has been weak.
Let's stop the stupid argument of "but they do it for free, therefore-" and instead ask if volunteer moderators are really ya good idea here.
At the moment they're basically prefects, and anyone who went through a school that had them knows what kind of individual wants to volunteer into a position of "authority." - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
120
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:01:00 -
[272] - Quote
HEAR HEAR. REMEMBER ISDGATE. REMEMBER THOSE WHO LOST THEIR FORUM PRIVILEGES. Remember the fallen. Remember those who cannot return.
25-26/06/12 - Remember ISDGate |
Elmanketticks
State Protectorate Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:01:00 -
[273] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:... You say you've been watching this all day long. This has been going on for far longer, today just happens to be the day it boiled over. The heavy handed moderation has been going on since I noticed the ISDs moderating. Maybe they have rules about what they can and can't say, but not being able or willing to jump into a thread that's going haywire and calm it down without resorting to editing posts or locking threads means not being able to manage a forum of this size. Period. ... -RubyPorto
This! FOR THE STATE! |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
125
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:08:00 -
[274] - Quote
Sorry, I forgot I already signed this. Hrm. Remember the fallen. Remember those who cannot return.
25-26/06/12 - Remember ISDGate |
CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
26
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:08:00 -
[275] - Quote
Signed
If nothing else change the name to something a bit more honest IAH |
Elmanketticks
State Protectorate Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:15:00 -
[276] - Quote
CARB0N FIBER wrote:Signed If nothing else change the name to something a bit more honest IAH
what do you suggest? seccpuritate? stasisd? occphrana? FOR THE STATE! |
Balak Ragnek
Black Thorne Technologies
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:18:00 -
[277] - Quote
-1
We need more ISD members on this forum with more robust deletions and threads locked. The forums are garbage and I'm bored of having to wade through the junk and drivel spouted by so many people in order to get to the useful info.
ISD keep up the good work |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
180
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:19:00 -
[278] - Quote
They even changed the 404 - we were ganked page :( If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2538
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:19:00 -
[279] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:There is a difference between "you are stupid" and "your argument is stupid" but the ISDs seem unable to see that.
Khanh'rhh wrote:Let's also not forget Jades rampant conspiracy theories which largely went unmoderated, yet replies calling him out on it were repeatedly deleted as "personal attacks" -- apparently responding to a personal attack is bad, but starting a thread which is one long slander piece (repeatedly) is OK? Right.
The problem is Khanh'rhh, that many people are unable to objectively look at their own posting and see where they fall short in the first sentence you make above. (attacking the argument not the poster). You are certainly one to get over excited in the process of debate and lose sight of this principle. The reason my posts probably went unmoderated is that I have a personal rule (if I ever get upset on the internet over a forum argument I walk away from the computer and go do something else - mostly having a nice cup of tea.) Nothing good comes from posting-angry.
The whole wardec 1.1 scandal discussion was a pretty easy debate for me because well, the 1.1 changes were objectively terrible and I stand by my statements that they appear to have been made purely to advantage large alliances. I invited you many times to contest that perception with counter arguments or alternative viewpoints but mostly you just attacked ad hominen and I (and pretty much everyone else) skipped your posts.
Still, eventually you did come up with a reasonable compromise post and I agreed with you on it (while not the best option to my eyes it was much better than 1.1 changes.)
But back on topic, before doing the whole "Why does Jade get away with posting things I don't like!!" thing why not go back and read my posts in comparison to your own and try to step aside from the ego for a moment. I never sound angry, and I generally don't make personal attacks on the people I'm debating with. I might well have a poor opinion of the mental stability, personal habits, political viewpoints, general esteem of the person I'm arguing with - but all that goes unwritten because its not an appropriate body of content for a public games forum. I invite you to go back and read your own posts and see how many times you suggested I was a escaped mental patient/borderline psychotic for merely daring to suggest that the wardec mechanics were being misbalanced in favour of large alliances.
Khanh'rhh wrote:If the ISD scheme is to continue it needs to do so in a different way, because volunteers simply can't be held accountable in the same way as staff (wage pressure) and I suspect this is part of the reason why the quality has been weak.
Whereas I would suggest the reason you perceive it to be weak is simply because you have been moderated. Nobody likes to be told they are "doing it wrong." Its human nature to rebel against authority. But watch the preceedings in the British house of commons and you'll see a bunch of highly paid politicians acting like forum trolls every day and needing to be reigned in by the speaker - for debate to happen you need to stamp down on personal attacks and out of bounds tactics.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
180
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:24:00 -
[280] - Quote
Balak Ragnek wrote:-1
We need more ISD members on this forum with more robust deletions and threads locked. The forums are garbage and I'm bored of having to wade through the junk and drivel spouted by so many people in order to get to the useful info.
ISD keep up the good work
Some people love the EvE Online forums, it is (was?) part of the EvE Online experience.
Transforming the forums in some type "blizzard style" forum is a very bad choice, it's boring, bland and goes against the EvE Online culture. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
|
captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:27:00 -
[281] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:The reason my posts probably went unmoderated is that I have a personal rule (if I ever get upset on the internet over a forum argument I walk away from the computer and go do something else - mostly having a nice cup of tea.) Nothing good comes from posting-angry.
The ISDs are terrible and should either have nuked almost everything you wrote or nothing at all--but should have applied that with every post in that thread. Instead, we got you calling people stupid while tinfoiling like a paranoid schizo about CCP being in league with Goonswarm (who just had 5 trillion ISK stolen from them by CCP so vOv I don't know what to tell you about how ludicrous it is that they are in cahoots) while the ISDs indiscriminately removed random posts, posts that were just as often dumb trolling as they were well-thought-out and coherent arguments.
That is why the ISD sucks. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2538
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:28:00 -
[282] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Balak Ragnek wrote:-1
We need more ISD members on this forum with more robust deletions and threads locked. The forums are garbage and I'm bored of having to wade through the junk and drivel spouted by so many people in order to get to the useful info.
ISD keep up the good work Some people love the EvE Online forums, it is ( was?) part of the EvE Online experience. Transforming the forums in some type "blizzard style" forum is a very bad choice, it's boring, bland and goes against the EvE Online culture.
What culture is that though Vaju Enki? Eve Online used to have its own culture before it became infected with Something Awful memes and the trappings of another external community. Perhaps it might be good to return to its own unique feel one day?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2538
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:31:00 -
[283] - Quote
captain foivos wrote: The ISDs are terrible and should either have nuked almost everything you wrote or nothing at all--but should have applied that with every post in that thread. Instead, we got you calling people stupid while tinfoiling like a paranoid schizo about CCP being in league with Goonswarm (who just had 5 trillion ISK stolen from them by CCP so vOv I don't know what to tell you about how ludicrous it is that they are in cahoots) while the ISDs indiscriminately removed random posts, posts that were just as often dumb trolling as they were well-thought-out and coherent arguments.That is why the ISD sucks.
Unfortunately I just read your paragraph above as a complaint about how unfair the english language is that some people can construct a perfectly good, incisive and often cutting post without the need to personally insult other forum users and some apparently cannot.
In eve rhetorical contests are implicitly unfair because some are simply better at it.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1643
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:33:00 -
[284] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:
Reading through this thread and watching I see that that both sides have made mistakes.
both sides may have made mistakes, but ours were totally intentional and were in protest of ISD actions
Quote:Posters that delibertly started to create spam/troll/argue threads in the forum and ISD members for not explaining which rules have been broken.
-First off, that's what the forum world calls a riot, it was done in response to bad decisions by the ISD team. Secondly, no, they just randomly cut and pasted rules or edited the content out of posts-
Quote:Now the focus has been shifted to the ISD as being some kind of supreme evil overlords. We are players of the same game as you and we enjoy it like you.
The difference is that we have decided to contribute our time to the community that makes EVE so great.
sorry again, but with the meta game on the forums it's an incredibly bad idea to allow other players to moderate the forums just due to the possibility of bias being applied in a community known for extreme bias.
your last statement in the quote just rustles my jimmies, and indicates a sense of superiority over the rabble you so graciously control. real heroes don't talk about their contributions or wear them as a badge of honor on their lapel
this is why this issue needs to be in front, not buried as you suggest in the low priority section of the petition queue
anyhow, I've said my piece several times now, so I'll leave it at that "You were the chosen one Anakin, you were supposed to bring order to the galaxy, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobi -á |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
181
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:34:00 -
[285] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Balak Ragnek wrote:-1
We need more ISD members on this forum with more robust deletions and threads locked. The forums are garbage and I'm bored of having to wade through the junk and drivel spouted by so many people in order to get to the useful info.
ISD keep up the good work Some people love the EvE Online forums, it is ( was?) part of the EvE Online experience. Transforming the forums in some type "blizzard style" forum is a very bad choice, it's boring, bland and goes against the EvE Online culture. What culture is that though Vaju Enki? Eve Online used to have its own culture before it became infected with Something Awful memes and the trappings of another external community. Perhaps it might be good to return to its own unique feel one day?
It's very simple, It's the exact opposite of what you think it is. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Fenella
Dangermouse Inc.
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:36:00 -
[286] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Balak Ragnek wrote:-1
We need more ISD members on this forum with more robust deletions and threads locked. The forums are garbage and I'm bored of having to wade through the junk and drivel spouted by so many people in order to get to the useful info.
ISD keep up the good work Some people love the EvE Online forums, it is ( was?) part of the EvE Online experience. Transforming the forums in some type "blizzard style" forum is a very bad choice, it's boring, bland and goes against the EvE Online culture. What culture is that though Vaju Enki? Eve Online used to have its own culture before it became infected with Something Awful memes and the trappings of another external community. Perhaps it might be good to return to its own unique feel one day?
Not that I disagree, but I think a major factor in the past was CAOD existed and 90% of the rubbish was sucked into there. Now its all over General. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2540
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:37:00 -
[287] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Balak Ragnek wrote:-1
We need more ISD members on this forum with more robust deletions and threads locked. The forums are garbage and I'm bored of having to wade through the junk and drivel spouted by so many people in order to get to the useful info.
ISD keep up the good work Some people love the EvE Online forums, it is ( was?) part of the EvE Online experience. Transforming the forums in some type "blizzard style" forum is a very bad choice, it's boring, bland and goes against the EvE Online culture. What culture is that though Vaju Enki? Eve Online used to have its own culture before it became infected with Something Awful memes and the trappings of another external community. Perhaps it might be good to return to its own unique feel one day? It's very simple, It's the exact opposite of what you think it is.
Well at least that was game attempt at a clever put down, bravo.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
541
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:42:00 -
[288] - Quote
You simply can't put a group of people up to control something without them ALL following the exact, clear cut and unsmokescreened rules. As long as there are rules which have interpretation variations you will never ever be able to blod out the notion of favouritism in regards to moderation since you didn't take out the human factor.
People from certain groups have a dislike of people from another group and this will always result in more exact or strict ruling than for those they do like or don't care about at all.
Since there are no affiliations known of the CCL people the people start to roar because of seemingly prejudice towards a ruling. Is that wonderous? No it isn't.
Your only way to get a clear cut answer is either a fully accountable organisation, which CCP refuses to be.
or
Very clear cut and all covering rules which get used for everyone exactly the same, which CCP refuses to do.
|
captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:46:00 -
[289] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Something Awful memes
Apparently someone has never been to Something Awful. |
Janet Marshall
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:47:00 -
[290] - Quote
captain foivos wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Something Awful memes
Apparently someone has never been to Something Awful.
Go back to Failheap jade. =) |
|
Alaura Aquila
Sarz'na Khumatari
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:48:00 -
[291] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:The ISD team seems to function after the principle of
STRENGTH THROUGH DISCIPLINE STRENGTH THROUGH COMMUNITY
and last but not least
STRENGTH THROUGH ACTION
cu in C&P /Wave
We need some discipline in here.
|
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1361
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:49:00 -
[292] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:The problem is Khanh'rhh, that many people are unable to objectively look at their own posting and see where they fall short in the first sentence you make above. (attacking the argument not the poster). You are certainly one to get over excited in the process of debate and lose sight of this principle I tolerated you very very well for the first, say, 10 pages, but after that your intolerable lies caused personal attacks, not just from me but from countless angles (though I was actually not personally moderated).
You may think it "clever" to repeatedly lie over and over again to try to make the other side fall foul of self induced moderation, but at some point people are going to call you on your bullshit. For instance:
Quote:The whole wardec 1.1 scandal discussion was a pretty easy debate for me because well, the 1.1 changes were objectively terrible and I stand by my statements that they appear to have been made purely to advantage large alliances. I invited you many times to contest that perception with counter arguments or alternative viewpoints
a) They are not objectively terrible since there was a debate over them which reached no conclusion.
b) You repeatedly asked me to counter your proposal only because doing so made it look like I had not. I had, repeatedly. Other posters had also, repeatedly. You simply ignored this and kept asking people to prove you wrong because you felt making the other people look bad in the discussion was going to further your agenda. The changes you referred to had been mentioned by me in that thread TEN TIMES in that thread alone and you willfully ignored them, even quoting parts of the same posts out of context to further your agenda. It's a little woeful that the substance of your debate seems to be to try to trip people over forum rules, but I guess that's your lot to live with.
Quote:But back on topic, before doing the whole "Why does Jade get away with posting things I don't like!!" thing why not go back and read my posts in comparison to your own and try to step aside from the ego for a moment. I never sound angry You need to step away from YOUR ego and read your posts. Because a lot of your early posts WERE moderated for being little else than personal attacks on CCP. It's nice that you can sit here and claim level headed posting when there's pages of evidence on eve-search and EN24 of you getting very very angry indeed.
This is now ANOTHER thread where you've appeared and posted within 2 posts of mine and/or mention of your name, so I am a little flattered you've included me in your internet stalking behaviour.
Quote:I invite you to go back and read your own posts and see how many times you suggested I was a escaped mental patient/borderline psychotic for merely daring to suggest that the wardec mechanics were being misbalanced in favour of large alliances You received this response form everyone because despite about 100 posts explaining the complete lack of logic behind it, and your statements which held no evidence behind them at all, you still kept saying the same thing. No, I don't think you're an escaped mental patient but you need to realise when you doggedly push a completely illogical argument because it suits your agenda that is *exactly* what it looks like.
If the ISD team were competent they would have deleted all your posts where your statements of fantasy as fact that were demonstrably untrue were made. Interestingly this is against the rules now, so I can't wait till yout next "CCP are doing what GSF are telling them to do" post.
Oh, and before you claim you never said that, just know I'll link every single post you made on it in a reply. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
503
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:50:00 -
[293] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Balak Ragnek wrote:-1
We need more ISD members on this forum with more robust deletions and threads locked. The forums are garbage and I'm bored of having to wade through the junk and drivel spouted by so many people in order to get to the useful info.
ISD keep up the good work Some people love the EvE Online forums, it is ( was?) part of the EvE Online experience. Transforming the forums in some type "blizzard style" forum is a very bad choice, it's boring, bland and goes against the EvE Online culture. What culture is that though Vaju Enki? Eve Online used to have its own culture before it became infected with Something Awful memes and the trappings of another external community. Perhaps it might be good to return to its own unique feel one day?
You may not know this, but on something awful the worst of the memes become "viral", get run into the ground by people who think they're being funny, and then become a bannable offense inside of a week.
That sounds like it would do wonders for this forum, honestly. . |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2540
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:50:00 -
[294] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:You simply can't put a group of people up to control something without them ALL following the exact, clear cut and unsmokescreened rules. As long as there are rules which have interpretation variations you will never ever be able to blod out the notion of favouritism in regards to moderation since you didn't take out the human factor.
People from certain groups have a dislike of people from another group and this will always result in more exact or strict ruling than for those they do like or don't care about at all.
Since there are no affiliations known of the CCL people the people start to roar because of seemingly prejudice towards a ruling. Is that wonderous? No it isn't.
Your only way to get a clear cut answer is either a fully accountable organisation, which CCP refuses to be.
or
Very clear cut and all covering rules which get used for everyone exactly the same, which CCP refuses to do.
Well I did suggest on the CCL introduction thread it might be a good idea for CCP to provide some data on which organizations the CCL volunteers came from (and in what ratios) as a way to deal with people's innate suspicion of bias. If those numbers showed some CFC affilitiation, some anti CFC affiliation, some general Eve affiliation - then at least everyone would know there were biased mods of all shades represented in the body. But, I did kinda take the point that CCP was making on the thread that these guys (CCL volunteers) were supposed to be above their in-game affiliations and referring to them at all might create rather than erase suspicions. Its a bit of a tricky problem.
Issue here really is that CCP have allowed the forum culture of Eve Online to get pretty disgusting, poisonous, and negative over the years. Bullying, personal attacks, RL slander became the norm. There is a reason why most Eve players are terrified about posting on the forums.
To turn this around somehow CCP needed to take a stand and start actually enforcing player rules of conduct. But whether inviting volunteer moderators to be at the sharp end of this enforcment is the sensible or courageous play - well, the jury is out on that decision.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1361
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:53:00 -
[295] - Quote
captain foivos wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Something Awful memes
Apparently someone has never been to Something Awful. I can guarantee he reads at least the Eve thread on SA, as he also follows goons around twitter and elsewhere to make sure he's getting 100% of every mention ever. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Din'stalor Alaric
THORN Syndicate THORN Alliance
80
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:53:00 -
[296] - Quote
Morganta wrote:it is a failed experiment. you are losing more money than you are saving by continuing to let -----Edit-----
Shameful display of customer service I strongly recommend you rectify the situation before they do any more damage to your company
and I mean the forum division, I have no issues with ISDs ingame
Post edited Please file a petition if you have an issue with the moderators.
-I did, I unsubbed and named the ISD as a reason, that will go up the chain quicker than the 2 month petition line-
-I also took the liberty of stripping your sig from my post as you are not worthy of having an official signature-
I took the liberty of highlighting and underlining the part of your spluge of rubbish which i found most interesting. Now, since its page 8 and no one has said it, Can i haz your stuff? Solo 4 Life.1v1 always honored, flying without booster alt since Oct 2010.No ransoms honored even if offered :) |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2540
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:54:00 -
[297] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Balak Ragnek wrote:-1
We need more ISD members on this forum with more robust deletions and threads locked. The forums are garbage and I'm bored of having to wade through the junk and drivel spouted by so many people in order to get to the useful info.
ISD keep up the good work Some people love the EvE Online forums, it is ( was?) part of the EvE Online experience. Transforming the forums in some type "blizzard style" forum is a very bad choice, it's boring, bland and goes against the EvE Online culture. What culture is that though Vaju Enki? Eve Online used to have its own culture before it became infected with Something Awful memes and the trappings of another external community. Perhaps it might be good to return to its own unique feel one day? You may not know this, but on something awful the worst of the memes become "viral", get run into the ground by people who think they're being funny, and then become a bannable offense inside of a week. That sounds like it would do wonders for this forum, honestly.
Funnily enough I actually started reading the goon recruitment thread on SA forums last week because I thought it was amusing to see the cognitive dissonance on display between opinions stated on Eve Online forums by prominent goon posters and the statements made to one's own social group on SA (This around the 5 Trillion isk FW exploit thing). Was interesting to see, and it does certainly provide a little perspective about how the Goons apparently see Eve Online forums when discussing their role here amongst their friends on a third party forum.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
503
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:55:00 -
[298] - Quote
So, when I said "you may not know this" I was dead on then, since there hasn't actually been a new meme created on SA in awhile. . |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2540
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:58:00 -
[299] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:The problem is Khanh'rhh, that many people are unable to objectively look at their own posting and see where they fall short in the first sentence you make above. (attacking the argument not the poster). You are certainly one to get over excited in the process of debate and lose sight of this principle I tolerated you very very well for the first, say, 10 pages, but after that your intolerable lies caused personal attacks, not just from me but from countless angles (though I was actually not personally moderated). You may think it "clever" to repeatedly lie over and over again to try to make the other side fall foul of self induced moderation, but at some point people are going to call you on your bullshit. For instance: Quote:The whole wardec 1.1 scandal discussion was a pretty easy debate for me because well, the 1.1 changes were objectively terrible and I stand by my statements that they appear to have been made purely to advantage large alliances. I invited you many times to contest that perception with counter arguments or alternative viewpoints a) They are not objectively terrible since there was a debate over them which reached no conclusion. b) You repeatedly asked me to counter your proposal only because doing so made it look like I had not. I had, repeatedly. Other posters had also, repeatedly. You simply ignored this and kept asking people to prove you wrong because you felt making the other people look bad in the discussion was going to further your agenda. The changes you referred to had been mentioned by me in that thread TEN TIMES in that thread alone and you willfully ignored them, even quoting parts of the same posts out of context to further your agenda. It's a little woeful that the substance of your debate seems to be to try to trip people over forum rules, but I guess that's your lot to live with. Quote:But back on topic, before doing the whole "Why does Jade get away with posting things I don't like!!" thing why not go back and read my posts in comparison to your own and try to step aside from the ego for a moment. I never sound angry You need to step away from YOUR ego and read your posts. Because a lot of your early posts WERE moderated for being little else than personal attacks on CCP. It's nice that you can sit here and claim level headed posting when there's pages of evidence on eve-search and EN24 of you getting very very angry indeed. This is now ANOTHER thread where you've appeared and posted within 2 posts of mine and/or mention of your name, so I am a little flattered you've included me in your internet stalking behaviour. Quote:I invite you to go back and read your own posts and see how many times you suggested I was a escaped mental patient/borderline psychotic for merely daring to suggest that the wardec mechanics were being misbalanced in favour of large alliances You received this response form everyone because despite about 100 posts explaining the complete lack of logic behind it, and your statements which held no evidence behind them at all, you still kept saying the same thing. No, I don't think you're an escaped mental patient but you need to realise when you doggedly push a completely illogical argument because it suits your agenda that is *exactly* what it looks like. If the ISD team were competent they would have deleted all your posts where your statements of fantasy as fact that were demonstrably untrue were made. Interestingly this is against the rules now, so I can't wait till yout next "CCP are doing what GSF are telling them to do" post. Oh, and before you claim you never said that, just know I'll link every single post you made on it in a reply.
Posting links at dawn? By all means if you feel it will help to win you the argument. I'm certainly entirely happy to defend all statements I have made in the past.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 13:59:00 -
[300] - Quote
I think this ISD thing could be really really good thing. Asking people to behave with respect to one another can be challenging. CCP try not to be discouraged by these winers, and see it thru. There are always growing pains, and this bunch are going to challenge this to no end. Don't give up. |
|
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
359
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:00:00 -
[301] - Quote
Can we at least make it through one thread about CCP censorship and the moderators program without bickering at each other? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2540
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:02:00 -
[302] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Can we at least make it through one thread about CCP censorship and the moderators program without bickering at each other?
Given the essence of complaints about the CCL program are "because we are unable to talk rubbish about our in-game opponents" that seems rather unlikely.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:02:00 -
[303] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Can we at least make it through one thread about CCP censorship and the moderators program without bickering at each other?
I asked people to keep their bulls in the pens. Fragile state this place is in. =\ |
captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:17:00 -
[304] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:I'm certainly entirely happy to defend all statements I have made in the past.
Like this these? |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1362
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:17:00 -
[305] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Posting links at dawn? By all means if you feel it will help to win you the argument. I'm certainly entirely happy to defend all statements I have made in the past.
Please explain how we're meant to perceive:
Jade Constantine wrote:Goonswarm have whined CCP into nerfing the Inferno Wardec System because they hated the idea of ever losing even a fraction of their numerical advantage [..] Mittani was forced to beg his mates at CCP to nerf the Inferno Wardec System because Goonswarm was being effectively opposed
Since the following parts are unsubstantiated, and you have been asked repeatedly to show evidence for:
- That Goonswarm complained - That they were ever against it, even - That CCP made this change off the back of GSF/Mittens communicating with them - That your opposition in anyway mattered.
The whole pretext that "it benefits large alliances" completely falls down as reverse logic. Because, tell me, the system as it was in 1.0 .... what size entity would be best placed to deal with dogpiled aggressors, a small alliance or a large one? That it benefits large alliances is a construction entirely of your own making.
There's no logical train of thought running through any of it, except "my particular war won't work so waaaaaaaaa!" - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2540
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:19:00 -
[306] - Quote
captain foivos wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:I'm certainly entirely happy to defend all statements I have made in the past.
Like this these?
I think you'd better explain your question in more detail.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1646
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:19:00 -
[307] - Quote
Din'stalor Alaric wrote:Morganta wrote:it is a failed experiment. you are losing more money than you are saving by continuing to let -----Edit-----
Shameful display of customer service I strongly recommend you rectify the situation before they do any more damage to your company
and I mean the forum division, I have no issues with ISDs ingame
Post edited Please file a petition if you have an issue with the moderators.
-I did, I unsubbed and named the ISD as a reason, that will go up the chain quicker than the 2 month petition line-
-I also took the liberty of stripping your sig from my post as you are not worthy of having an official signature- I took the liberty of highlighting and underlining the part of your spluge of rubbish which i found most interesting. Now, since its page 8 and no one has said it, Can i haz your stuff?
thank you, I was just noticing that nobody had done that yet, and it felt very odd, almost like I was in a totally different community
and no, you can't I need my stuff to keep the station from floating away
and Jade, go start your own thread, or do you need to hijack other threads to push your terrible tinfoilry? "You were the chosen one Anakin, you were supposed to bring order to the galaxy, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobi -á |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2540
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:25:00 -
[308] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote: Please explain how we're meant to perceive:
I said I was entirely happy to defend any statements I have made, I am not however prepared to waste my time explaining how you are meant to "perceive" something that is clearly evident.
All statements you quoted were prettty fair rhetoric given the sweeping change made to Inferno wardecs in 1.1 which have seen the defensive ally coalition mechanic nerfed into oblivion so that the largest alliances in the game can wardec the smallest for a mere 50m isk per week while a defending coalition 1/20th of the aggressor's size will be billed $300,000 dollars in ISK equiv. to escalate the war
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:26:00 -
[309] - Quote
Looks like I accidentally a word there, oops.
I don't get why a spacehooker is telling me to be nicer on the forums. Especially a spacehooker that calls my friends cowardly, weak imbeciles. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2540
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:31:00 -
[310] - Quote
captain foivos wrote:Looks like I accidentally a word there, oops.
I don't get why a spacehooker is telling me to be nicer on the forums. Especially a spacehooker that calls my friends cowardly, weak imbeciles.
Still don't really understand what you are talking about.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
|
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:33:00 -
[311] - Quote
Stop arguing about your argument and get back to discussing ISD. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2540
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:35:00 -
[312] - Quote
Jason Auralis wrote:Stop arguing about your argument and get back to discussing ISD.
I think you'll find I've done plenty of that in this thread. Read back.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
47
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:40:00 -
[313] - Quote
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Hello,
I and a silent majority wholeheartedly support you and your heavy efforts in what is the most thankless job on the internets.
Know that you are appreciated and please don't give up. Don't listen to this garbage of humanity who sperg their nonsense all over this forum and dare to call it "freedom of speech".
Keep the good work,
One of many customers happy to see some moderation in this sea of spoiled childs ship poastings.
Silent majority? Are you serious?
Eve forums official anthem:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA |
Jason Auralis
Maximum Technologies
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:40:00 -
[314] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Jason Auralis wrote:Stop arguing about your argument and get back to discussing ISD. I think you'll find I've done plenty of that in this thread. Read back.
Ok. So stop when you reach the point where your done talking about the topic. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1362
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:42:00 -
[315] - Quote
Once more you selectively quote my post and claim the same complete nonsense, so I will instead ask the same thing again.
Since the following parts of your argument (it helps large alliances, they wanted it changed) are unsubstantiated, and you have been asked repeatedly to show evidence for, I would like responses on the following lack of logic in your statements:
- That Goonswarm complained - That they were ever against it, even - That CCP made this change off the back of GSF/Mittens communicating with them - That your opposition in anyway mattered.
Plus, I ask again, the system as it was in 1.0 .... what size entity would be best placed to deal with dogpiled aggressors, a small alliance or a large one? That it benefits large alliances is a construction entirely of your own making.
You can make all the JPEGS you want of how much it costs to have 40 bajillion 1 man corps join your war but it completely avoids the central logic of the argument, so please, if you're actually man enough, try to make a comment which isn't just rhetoric and posturing. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
435
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:46:00 -
[316] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:While forum moderation discussions as per our forum rules not allowed on our forums, we of course allow and welcome constructive feedback and suggestions of how to improve our CCL program. Forum moderation discussion for example would be discussing why a thread was locked, why a post was edited or why some moderator performed a specific action etc. If you have questions about specific moderation actions, the only proper way for asking questions is to file a petition. Constructive feedback in general would include suggestions on how to improve the CCL in general without pointing to specific moderation actions or moderators. Our goal is to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community on our forums and we are constantly working towards this goal - even though we sometimes have to work a little harder
why not open a spam only thread where if a spam thread is made it gets moved into the spam thread...
that way if we are really bored and feel like we need to get our spam on we can do it in the correct thread? PLEX FOR PIZZA! -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2540
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:53:00 -
[317] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote: Once more you selectively quote my post and claim the same complete nonsense
Well I'm hardly likely to stop selectively quoting your posts while you are claiming that a screenshot from the live server 1.1 defensive ally fee for escalation is part of a "nonsense" now am I? We need to get some consensus on the first line before its possible to continue. So tell me, do you agree that the 52nd ally in a defensive coalition (even though that coalition is still 1/20th the size of the aggressor) should cost around $300,000 dollars in ISK equivilent.
Because if we can get some agreement on we can move onto some of the rest of your points.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:53:00 -
[318] - Quote
Luis Graca wrote:Alaya Carrier wrote:Luis Graca wrote:i don't get it If "Eve is a cold harsh universe" and this forums are a part of EVE why shouldn't "Eve forums are a cold harsh universe" Douchebaggery <> being harsh. There are ways to express a lot, in a proper way. The Goons "FW LP" thread was left intact for days despite they were smug vs CCP themselves. You don't need to have your mouth filled with abuse and trolling to look "cold and harsh". You know "in a proper way" can meant something to you and something completely different to me
I could go in any street and talk to any person with the same language I am using on the forum with no risk of being punched on my nose. I could go in a politic video strongly opposing to what they are talking without getting my microphone muted.
That's one of the many, proper ways.
Common sense. Use it. |
Prandax Xeon
Rapier Innovations
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:02:00 -
[319] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:8 Stupid Arguments That Internet Debates Always Devolve Into#8. Who Has Less of a Life #7. Who Is More Mature #6. Who Can't Be Objective #5. Who Is "Bringing Politics into It" #4. Who Changed the Subject #3. Freedom of Speech #2. The Purpose of the Thread #1. Emotion Contests I think we've covered most of the bases... Anyone want to volunteer to represent #8 and #5?
You sir have no life, except to make lists. At least that's what the Democrats' said. How is a Wyvern like an Ibis?-á Neither have a drone bay!-á-á |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
490
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:02:00 -
[320] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote: I'm not playing to your strawman, Jade.
Then why do you expect me to play into yours?
No you! Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
|
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1362
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:05:00 -
[321] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote: I'm not playing to your strawman, Jade.
Then why do you expect me to play into yours? This is now complete lunacy.
Your position is that this helps large alliances, yet you call my question on whether you think it helps them or not a strawman argument?
Just answer the question. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1362
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:07:00 -
[322] - Quote
Of course, we all know he can't because there's no logic to his argument which can't be completely broken by simply asking a question that relates directly to his central tenet.
Pretty bad position to be in Jade, how are you going to try to worm out of it? - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1362
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:08:00 -
[323] - Quote
You told me you would defend anything you said about it and then outright refuse to do that a page later.
What gives? - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Prandax Xeon
Rapier Innovations
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:11:00 -
[324] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:You told me you would defend anything you said about it and then outright refuse to do that a page later.
What gives?
Uhhh, you know you don't get more points for more posts? You are allowed to put more than 1 paragraph per post. How is a Wyvern like an Ibis?-á Neither have a drone bay!-á-á |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2540
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:13:00 -
[325] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:What gives?
Well mainly I'm waiting for you to answer my question. Until we can get past the first line of your post there isn't much further to talk about.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Denidil
Larimer Highlands Heavy Industries
285
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:23:00 -
[326] - Quote
poor little baby, being forced to act older than 14 years old on the forums. boohoo.. boohoo
HTFU and STFU. I like all these gankbear tears, now maybe you'll have to go prove your "l33t pvp" skills against something that shoots back like the rest of us do. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1362
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:25:00 -
[327] - Quote
It's a strawman Jade, and a badly positioned one at that. I could do the playground thing of "I asked first" (and by the way, I don't mean today, but I have asked this consistently since your first posts on it and you have always ignored it) but I'll move on.
Your example is particular to your war, and your war under the 1.1 system, and to answer it we have to look at EVERYONES war and not just yours.
You claim the 1.1 change "is to help large alliances" and to make this statement you need to show how it benefits large alliances more than small ones. So, I will restate the question in parts.
1) Under 1.0 was a small or large alliance best placed to work with dogpiled aggressors? 2) Under 1.1 and given the cost per ally is constant for all defending corp sizes, for n defenders who is best able to deal with that size of aggressor, a large or small alliance? For n+1 who is best able to deal with that size of defending ally, a large or small alliance?
You're claiming this was to help large alliances yet the question you are refusing to answer is whether large or small alliances had it worse to begin with, which is laughably obtuse. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1362
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:28:00 -
[328] - Quote
By the way, the answer to 1) and 2) is "large alliances"
Large alliances were largely immune to whether the defenders were 10 or 100, small alliances were not.
You keep ignoring this so I will just keep re-stating it.
Bonus question: for n+1 to whom is the +1 more of a factor, to a small alliance or a large alliance?
Oh hey look it's small alliances benefiting more again. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:31:00 -
[329] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Balak Ragnek wrote:-1
We need more ISD members on this forum with more robust deletions and threads locked. The forums are garbage and I'm bored of having to wade through the junk and drivel spouted by so many people in order to get to the useful info.
ISD keep up the good work Some people love the EvE Online forums, it is ( was?) part of the EvE Online experience. Transforming the forums in some type "blizzard style" forum is a very bad choice, it's boring, bland and goes against the EvE Online culture.
Are you seriously saying that the only thing that makes a forum interesting is the shitposting?
Seriously?
|
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
492
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:32:00 -
[330] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:It's a strawman Jade, and a badly positioned one at that. I could do the playground thing of "I asked first" (and by the way, I don't mean today, but I have asked this consistently since your first posts on it and you have always ignored it) but I'll move on.
Your example is particular to your war, and your war under the 1.1 system, and to answer it we have to look at EVERYONES war and not just yours.
You claim the 1.1 change "is to help large alliances" and to make this statement you need to show how it benefits large alliances more than small ones. So, I will restate the question in parts.
1) Under 1.0 was a small or large alliance best placed to work with dogpiled aggressors? 2) Under 1.1 and given the cost per ally is constant for all defending corp sizes, for n defenders who is best able to deal with that size of aggressor, a large or small alliance? For n+1 who is best able to deal with that size of defending ally, a large or small alliance?
You're claiming this was to help large alliances yet the question you are refusing to answer is whether large or small alliances had it worse to begin with, which is laughably obtuse.
Why, from this breakdown of things one could get the impression that Jade thinks everything revolves around him! That is heresy! Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
|
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
632
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:44:00 -
[331] - Quote
This got off topic a little I think. Perhaps it's time to get back on it? Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
210
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:49:00 -
[332] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:This got off topic a little I think. Perhaps it's time to get back on it? thats what she said? |
Ghost Xray
Hedion University Amarr Empire
102
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:55:00 -
[333] - Quote
Din'stalor Alaric wrote:
I took the liberty of highlighting and underlining the part of your spluge of rubbish which i found most interesting. Now, since its page 8 and no one has said it, Can i haz your stuff?
Actually, I already took care of this:
Ghost Xray wrote:
I enjoy watching the nerdrage and the fists of [EvE] God crushing every malcontents soul.
This isn't a democracy. This is a dictatorship. You don't get to vote by committee how things are to be run around here. If you quit because of this, then I'll give you the proper goodbye salute o7 and say "about your stuff, yeah, you know what I want".
Get out old forum sperglings.
|
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1648
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 15:56:00 -
[334] - Quote
Delen Ormand wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Balak Ragnek wrote:-1
We need more ISD members on this forum with more robust deletions and threads locked. The forums are garbage and I'm bored of having to wade through the junk and drivel spouted by so many people in order to get to the useful info.
ISD keep up the good work Some people love the EvE Online forums, it is ( was?) part of the EvE Online experience. Transforming the forums in some type "blizzard style" forum is a very bad choice, it's boring, bland and goes against the EvE Online culture. Are you seriously saying that the only thing that makes a forum interesting is the shitposting? Seriously?
welp, when the entire forum is as compartmentalized as EVE-O the only thing you can do in GD is make posts with no approved home or what we generally see here, meta-gaming, theory-crafting and general banter.
lets not even go into what the outside perception of the title "general discussion" is "You were the chosen one Anakin, you were supposed to bring order to the galaxy, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobi -á |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2540
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Posted - 2012.06.26 16:01:00 -
[335] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:You're claiming this was to help large alliances yet the question you are refusing to answer is whether large or small alliances had it worse to begin with, which is laughably obtuse.
Clearly large alliances were worse off in 1.0 than 1.1. I'm not really sure what point you are making.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Ituhata
The Scope Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2012.06.26 16:04:00 -
[336] - Quote
Unfortunately I didn't actually see what happened, but it sounds like a thread was posted, replies were made that devolved into trolling, and the entire thread was locked wholesale without the OP getting an answer. Then a repeating feedback loop was created as subsequent threads were made to get that answer and of course, threads were locked for duplication and/or discussing moderation (first thread locked, continued BZZT! discussing moderation, etc.)
What probably should have happened was the moderators should have taken the time to remove or edit the offensive posts and make a post reminding people to politely stay on topic. Afterwards if the thread continued on course it could be locked wholesale and the forum users would not have much of a leg to stand on if they opposed the action.
I also feel there is a language barrier issue and the 'personal attack' angle of locking or editing posts is, quite frankly, used too liberally. Combined with discussing forum moderation, it seems to be quite an effective way to curb any open criticism whatsoever, which I feel is a bad precedent to set.
Having individuals file petitions which in all likelihood will be ignored individually rather than having a community discussion is alot like Walmart being able to fight discrimination cases on a case by case basis rather than a class action basis. The results are the same, anyway....but that is purely my opinion on the matter. |
Atrocitus Parallax
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2012.06.26 16:08:00 -
[337] - Quote
"Our goal is to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community on our forums and we are constantly working towards this goal - even though we sometimes have to work a little harder"
I appreciate your goal but warm and friendly and anonymous internet forums are two things that rarely coincide. Perhaps if we were all forced to post with our highest skilled characters it might improve slightly. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
492
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Posted - 2012.06.26 16:08:00 -
[338] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:You're claiming this was to help large alliances yet the question you are refusing to answer is whether large or small alliances had it worse to begin with, which is laughably obtuse. Clearly large alliances were worse off in 1.0 than 1.1. I'm not really sure what point you are making.
But how were they worse off? It's easy to just say "Oh, well they were worse off." without having to back anything up. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Verone
Veto Corp
277
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Posted - 2012.06.26 16:15:00 -
[339] - Quote
Jesus christ I agree with Jade Constantine
Eve has become too full of Something Awful culture these last few years.
On a more serious note, I love the volunteer teams. They're an awesome idea, and generally they're full of good, skilled and helpful people.
One thing I'll get behind is for sure is the re-introduction of the Eris Discordia.
ERIS MY LUB!, WHERE ART THOU??!!
It has been so many years since the fuchsia laz0rs of thine holy pink Revelation hath cleansed the forums of such tomfoolery.
Verone CEO & Executor Veto Corp WWW.VETO-CORP.COM |
Din Chao
Seraphim Initiative
15
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Posted - 2012.06.26 16:25:00 -
[340] - Quote
ISD Athechu wrote:We are players of the same game as you and we enjoy it like you. The difference is that we have decided to contribute our time to the community that makes EVE so great. Pomposity noted. You're just better than us. Got it. |
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
1249
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Posted - 2012.06.26 16:44:00 -
[341] - Quote
Please post any comments regarding ISD and the future of moderation to this thread.
Locked.
CCP Navigator -Community Manager |
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