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Shigsy
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Shigsy on 29/01/2010 18:12:23 Recently, CCP has been trying to cover up "The Larkonisgate Scandal". Ingame, his CSM 3 Medal was removed from his character, despite Larkonis's dedication to the CSM. Many of the players proprosals were voted in by larkonis, and he helped change Eve-Online for the greater good. He was voted into the CSM by the community, and therefor deserves his medal, unlike others who weren't voted in, yet were defaulted a medal because of Larkonisgate.
Not only this, but it appears CCP are trying to airbrush this whole incident from history. On their Wiki, Larkonis has been apparantly removed from the equation altogether. Personally, I think this is poor form by CCP, who gave so much to the CSM, and in return recieved so little.
The least that can be done to rectify this situation is the restore Larkonis's name to the Wiki record, and give him back his ingame Medal for his services.
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Shigsy
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:12:00 -
[2]
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:15:00 -
[3]
Yes... because it is perfectly acceptable for players to break Non-Disclosure Agreements/Contracts and get off scott free (as far as being perma-banned).
Emphatic Thumbs Down ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Danny StinkyPants
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:16:00 -
[4]
So you guys bum buddies or whut?
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atrophocy
Self-Obsessed and Sexxee
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:18:00 -
[5]
Edited by: atrophocy on 29/01/2010 18:19:38 this all sounds most unjust, so quite probably true.
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Ran Khanon
Vengeance Innovations
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:18:00 -
[6]
Yes please. At least let the legacy of the great Larkonis and what he tried to achieve live on in official annals. (Which is a perfectly fine and decent English sentence).
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Shigsy
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:20:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Yes... because it is perfectly acceptable for players to break Non-Disclosure Agreements/Contracts and get off scott free (as far as being perma-banned).
Emphatic Thumbs Down
Non-Disclosure Agreement
He didn't disclose anything, therefor how did he break it?
Originally by: Danny StinkyPants So you guys bum buddies or whut?
Yes
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fmercury
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:21:00 -
[8]
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywher
- The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
Supported.
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Danny StinkyPants
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:23:00 -
[9]
Oh, I see his sobbing keeps you awake at night - or he is so depressed that you aren't getting any (cookies).
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El'Tar
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:25:00 -
[10]
larkonis is an independant bastion of strength, honour and justice in an otherwise dull and bleak universe ________________________________________________
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Shigsy
Originally by: Drake Draconis Yes... because it is perfectly acceptable for players to break Non-Disclosure Agreements/Contracts and get off scott free (as far as being perma-banned).
Emphatic Thumbs Down
Non-Disclosure Agreement
He didn't disclose anything, therefor how did he break it?
Re-read my post.
I said NDA/CONTRACT.
He was not supposed to act on that information therefore he broke the NDA.
I suggest you learn to read before you post... less embarrassing.
========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:33:00 -
[12]
What is it with Larkonis fan club that they feel the need to whitewash what he did?
I swear it's like watching a bunch of politicians trying to define the words "sexual relations" all over again. --Vel
Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats. |
Ran Khanon
Amarr Vengeance Innovations
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Originally by: Shigsy
Originally by: Drake Draconis Yes... because it is perfectly acceptable for players to break Non-Disclosure Agreements/Contracts and get off scott free (as far as being perma-banned).
Emphatic Thumbs Down
Non-Disclosure Agreement
He didn't disclose anything, therefor how did he break it?
Re-read my post.
I said NDA/CONTRACT.
He was not supposed to act on that information therefore he broke the NDA.
I suggest you learn to read before you post... less embarrassing.
Yeah well, doesn't mean he should be wiped from the official eve history books now, does it?
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Shigsy
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Originally by: Shigsy
Originally by: Drake Draconis Yes... because it is perfectly acceptable for players to break Non-Disclosure Agreements/Contracts and get off scott free (as far as being perma-banned).
Emphatic Thumbs Down
Non-Disclosure Agreement
He didn't disclose anything, therefor how did he break it?
Re-read my post.
I said NDA/CONTRACT.
He was not supposed to act on that information therefore he broke the NDA.
I suggest you learn to read before you post... less embarrassing.
He signed an NDA. He didn't disclose anything.
What exactly are you trying to say?
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Shigsy
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Originally by: Shigsy
Originally by: Drake Draconis Yes... because it is perfectly acceptable for players to break Non-Disclosure Agreements/Contracts and get off scott free (as far as being perma-banned).
Emphatic Thumbs Down
Non-Disclosure Agreement
He didn't disclose anything, therefor how did he break it?
Re-read my post.
I said NDA/CONTRACT.
He was not supposed to act on that information therefore he broke the NDA.
I suggest you learn to read before you post... less embarrassing.
He signed an NDA. He didn't disclose anything.
What exactly are you trying to say?
A typical NDA also includes a clause stating that you will not use the information for personal gain. And to counter your next argument, since ISK can be traded for game time via PLEXes it DOES have a real world value, and thus can be included in the "for personal gain" argument. --Vel
Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:43:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 29/01/2010 18:43:37
Stick to the rules if you want a shiney medal.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:46:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Shigsy
Non-Disclosure Agreement
He didn't disclose anything, therefor how did he break it?
Have you actually read the CSM NDA?
It's quite clear that you haven't.
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Shigsy
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: De'Veldrin A typical NDA also includes a clause stating that you will not use the information for personal gain. And to counter your next argument, since ISK can be traded for game time via PLEXes it DOES have a real world value, and thus can be included in the "for personal gain" argument.
Oh I'm sorry I didn't realise you also read the NDA that Larkonis signed. I'll be more careful in the future to ensure I don't make that mistake.
And you can't trade ISK for $$$. How does that give it real world value? And how come Plex scamming is allowed? Because it's an INGAME item. It has nothing to do with the real world.
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yani dumyat
Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:49:00 -
[19]
Not sure about giving him his medal back but WTF removing him from the wiki.
Eve should be proud to have the odd scandal, it makes for interesting history and makes it look more like a proper democracy. _________________________________________________ Lifeboat ----> + Human |
Hugo Lordmagnus
Caldari Vexillari
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Posted - 2010.01.29 18:55:00 -
[20]
What's the TL;DR on whatever he did?
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.01.29 19:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hugo Lordmagnus What's the TL;DR on whatever he did?
used his knowledge to buy out stuff that would get more valuable with the changes CCP was planning.
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Larkonis TrassIer
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.01.29 19:05:00 -
[22]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Hugo Lordmagnus What's the TL;DR on whatever he did?
used his knowledge to buy out stuff that would get more valuable with the changes CCP was planning.
The terrible irony is that it got less valuable.
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Hugo Lordmagnus
Caldari Vexillari
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Posted - 2010.01.29 19:18:00 -
[23]
Ouch
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.29 19:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shigsy Edited by: Shigsy on 29/01/2010 18:49:44
Originally by: De'Veldrin A typical NDA also includes a clause stating that you will not use the information for personal gain. And to counter your next argument, since ISK can be traded for game time via PLEXes it DOES have a real world value, and thus can be included in the "for personal gain" argument.
Oh I'm sorry I didn't realise you also read the NDA that Larkonis signed. I'll be more careful in the future to ensure I don't make that mistake.
And you can't trade ISK for $$$. How does that give it real world value? And how come Plex scamming is allowed? Because it's an INGAME item. It has nothing to do with the real world.
edit: getting slightly off topic here btw
Stop being an idiot on purpose. It's not helping your argument.
We get it that you're a Lark fanboi, and that's fine - some of us feel that our CSM members should hold themselves to a higher standard of behavior, which is why we're disagreeing with your proposal.
But don't throw attitude at us when we use examples to show why you're wrong. An NDA is a standard legal document - CCP didn't invent them, and having signed quite a few of them myself, I can tell you more or less what's included.
The clause for personal gain is included to prevent you from using any information you may encounter in your activities under the agreement in a manner that would give you a tangible benefit. Since ISK can be used to buy game time (as I pointed out), Lark's use of the information could enable him to acquire game time in a manner not available to every other player in the game, and that's the key point. Yes you can scam plex - and anyone else in the game can try the same tactic to get free game time. Lark's actions enabled him to be able to acquire that game time in a manner not available to everyone because it was based on knowledge not yet available to the wider player base (in essence, he engaged in insider trading). --Vel
Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats. |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.01.29 19:35:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Hugo Lordmagnus What's the TL;DR on whatever he did?
used his knowledge to buy out stuff that would get more valuable with the changes CCP was planning.
The terrible irony is that it got less valuable.
Well you that is bad luck on top.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.01.29 19:39:00 -
[26]
obvious troll is obvious
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Ran Khanon
Amarr Vengeance Innovations
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Posted - 2010.01.29 19:41:00 -
[27]
I guess we all know what he did wrong. Most of us do, at least. The question is whether he should be wiped from the history books for it and getting his shiny medal taken away; like a referee dropping by your house to collect your soccer trophies after you got sent off in your latest match.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.29 20:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ran Khanon I guess we all know what he did wrong. Most of us do, at least. The question is whether he should be wiped from the history books for it and getting his shiny medal taken away; like a referee dropping by your house to collect your soccer trophies after you got sent off in your latest match.
No, it's more like the Olympic Comittie revoking your medal because they found out you cheated during the Olympics and that was why you won. --Vel
Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats. |
Gladys Pank
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.01.29 20:12:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Gladys Pank on 29/01/2010 20:12:13 Considering the charm of Eve in terms of significance is it's single shard "what happens, happens to all", the attempt to mask a part of its history like this is pretty pathetic. Lark may have been underhanded in his insider trading efforts but considering that is entirely within the spirits of the games ethics, it's a disappointment in the least to see CCP trying to rewrite the history books. ~ Soar Like a Penguin |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.01.29 20:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Ran Khanon I guess we all know what he did wrong. Most of us do, at least. The question is whether he should be wiped from the history books for it and getting his shiny medal taken away; like a referee dropping by your house to collect your soccer trophies after you got sent off in your latest match.
No, it's more like the Olympic Comittie revoking your medal because they found out you cheated during the Olympics and that was why you won.
THIS
Ran - What is this... be stupid day? derp derp?
If we wanted him wiped from history... we wouldn't be bringing it up now would we? ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
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Larkonis TrassIer
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.01.29 20:30:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Larkonis TrassIer on 29/01/2010 20:30:26
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Ran Khanon I guess we all know what he did wrong. Most of us do, at least. The question is whether he should be wiped from the history books for it and getting his shiny medal taken away; like a referee dropping by your house to collect your soccer trophies after you got sent off in your latest match.
No, it's more like the Olympic Comittie revoking your medal because they found out you cheated during the Olympics and that was why you won.
That is a poor analogy dear, even from you. Perhaps if I had been found to have somehow subverted the datebase during the actual election that would be more fitting.
I was most upset to discover that my medal had been removed, but not so upset as to protest about it on the forums. I'm afraid Shigsy is merely trying to express his love for me by trying to do me a good turn.
EDIT: Adding my support anyway.
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FU22
Incura
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Posted - 2010.01.29 20:34:00 -
[32]
Supporting because lark made a few videos I enjoyed
Originally by: Millie Clode Dear santa, for christmas I would like an endless supply of noobs to march across my screen so I can pretend I'm playing duck hunt
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.01.29 20:37:00 -
[33]
He should get his place back on the wiki. Simple history is not changed by a moment of stupid. The medal, not so much - that's a fair thing to strip.
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Herty
The Sexy Carebear Boredom Convention
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Posted - 2010.01.29 20:44:00 -
[34]
He was a volunteer trying to improve everyones gameplay and he used some information (like all of us would don't lie) to make a little isk for himself. It simple corruption and it happens all the time. Plus for people saying he had an unfair advantage he didn't you try getting the reputation to be able to win CSM election its probably not easy.
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Cearain
Caldari ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.01.29 22:35:00 -
[35]
The whole Larkonisgate deal is a bit odd. So the csm can't let anything they learn effect what they do in game? Is this true of ccp employees? So if I was planning on buying billions worth of warp core stabilizers before I'm on the csm but then after a csm meeting find out ccp is likely to nerf warp core stabilizers - I'm still duty bound to buy billions worth of them? If I don't I'm in breach of a nondisclosure agreement?
I would like to see the agreement(s)csm members need to sign. I find it ironic that the csm was created because ccp lost the faith of the players when their own employees where very blatantly cheating (flat out spawning blue prints!) in their own game. (which by the way does have a tie in with real money) We get no repercussions against that employee yet CCP ends turning the tables against a player in csm who supposedly didn't properly pretend he didn't hear stuff he heard. Its getting reversed like in soviet russia.
I'm not in favor of dirty rotten contract breachers, nor do I like dishonesty, but these rules seem far from clear. We can see CCP is quick to tighten the reigns on this organization which was created due to ccp employee cheating but what about the original intent of the csm?
I will also say my *hunch* is that larconis had to be very honest about his motivations or ccp would have had a tough time proving anything.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.01.29 23:15:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Cearain The whole Larkonisgate deal is a bit odd. So the csm can't let anything they learn effect what they do in game? Is this true of ccp employees? So if I was planning on buying billions worth of warp core stabilizers before I'm on the csm but then after a csm meeting find out ccp is likely to nerf warp core stabilizers - I'm still duty bound to buy billions worth of them? If I don't I'm in breach of a nondisclosure agreement?
I would like to see the agreement(s)csm members need to sign. I find it ironic that the csm was created because ccp lost the faith of the players when their own employees where very blatantly cheating (flat out spawning blue prints!) in their own game. (which by the way does have a tie in with real money) We get no repercussions against that employee yet CCP ends turning the tables against a player in csm who supposedly didn't properly pretend he didn't hear stuff he heard. Its getting reversed like in soviet russia.
I'm not in favor of dirty rotten contract breachers, nor do I like dishonesty, but these rules seem far from clear. We can see CCP is quick to tighten the reigns on this organization which was created due to ccp employee cheating but what about the original intent of the csm?
I will also say my *hunch* is that larconis had to be very honest about his motivations or ccp would have had a tough time proving anything.
Lark bought goods up AFTER he found out... not before... not way before... he didn't have a bloody stockpile.
Come on people... sheesh.
Don't you think he'd gone after them legally if that wasn't the case? That's called entrapment.... not something CCP would pull considering. /me epic facepalm ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.29 23:18:00 -
[37]
Emphatic thumbs DOWN.
I think CCP was far too kind to him and he should have been permabanned for that (it was too minor for real world legal action, but that would not have been inappropriate, just wasteful).
And to those who think that nothing was 'revealed' the market is a public place. When someone buys or sells something from you it shows in your transaction journal. Therefore, anyone who was transacting with Larkonis would immediately know what he was transacting and how much and, knowing he was a CSM it's not rocket science to conclude, if the transactions were at all unusual (and they were - otherwise he wouldn't have gotten caught) then what was going to take place was publicly revealed to anyone who happened to look.
And yes, NDAs also have (as a standard clause) a 'you may not benefit from this info outside of the benefits stated in this contract' clause.
Having done a bunch of stuff for a couple of major game companies and worked in the industry for awhile, I've had to read and sign a few over the years. They're pretty standard in the base particulars.
Oh, and a former CSM confirmed that clauses were broken (which just puts the cherry on top).
I don't hate Lark or anything, although I don't agree with him on just about anything either - but I still believe he got off far too lightly.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Cearain
Caldari ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.01.29 23:55:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Lark bought goods up AFTER he found out... not before... not way before... he didn't have a bloody stockpile.
So what? In my case you would be changing your actions after you hear from the csm as well.
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Come on people... sheesh.
Don't you think he'd gone after them legally if that wasn't the case? That's called entrapment.... not something CCP would pull considering. /me epic facepalm
I don't know what you are talking about here, and I have a hunch you don't either. ;)
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.01.30 00:16:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 30/01/2010 00:16:34
Originally by: Cearain
Originally by: Drake Draconis Lark bought goods up AFTER he found out... not before... not way before... he didn't have a bloody stockpile.
So what? In my case you would be changing your actions after you hear from the csm as well.
The point is you DON'T.
The NDA/Contractual agreement is legally binding.... obviously you don't act on any insider information no matter the excuse.
You tempt fate like that and you get shot in the @$$.
It's not that hard to figure out! Apparently it is for some people. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Cearain
Caldari ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.01.30 00:19:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Cearain on 30/01/2010 00:23:00 Edited by: Cearain on 30/01/2010 00:22:07
Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom Emphatic thumbs DOWN.
And yes, NDAs also have (as a standard clause) a 'you may not benefit from this info outside of the benefits stated in this contract' clause.
Having done a bunch of stuff for a couple of major game companies and worked in the industry for awhile, I've had to read and sign a few over the years. They're pretty standard in the base particulars.
Oh, and a former CSM confirmed that clauses were broken (which just puts the cherry on top). ą
Are the contracts that ccp employees and the csm sign in this regard public? IĘd be curious what the actual clause said. Are ccp employees bound by terms at least as strong as those they hold csm to?
Yeah they can prove he bought such and such items. But how can they prove what his motivation was? I doubt Larconis really had any legal analysis of his position. I think he didnĘt think his actions were justified under his contract, didnĘt want to lie about it, so he did the right thing. (Of course purposely violating an agreement is not the right thing but *after* he did that and he was questioned about it he seemed to have done the right thing.)
Also my questions are still unanswered. Would you say from my hypothetical the person would have to buy all the warp core stabilizers or be in breach of contract?
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Asuri Kinnes
The Bastards The Bastards.
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Posted - 2010.01.30 02:31:00 -
[41]
Not supported.
Larkonis admitted that he screwed up, he lost the medal. If CCP wishes to remove his name from the wiki, so be it. He shouldn't have screwed up if he wanted to keep his status, medal and wiki mention... He took a flight to Iceland, had a chance to meet with the Devs all on CCP's dime... Its his own fault if he couldn't keep it together.
As for the "unanswered question" above, it remains unanswered because its irrelivant. "Going to do" =/= "did".
Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.30 07:40:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cearain
Are the contracts that ccp employees and the csm sign in this regard public? IĘd be curious what the actual clause said. Are ccp employees bound by terms at least as strong as those they hold csm to?
Iceland may well have different laws but contracts such as this in the US, the UK and Canada (which are the kind I've seen/signed) are not public. They are a private binding agreement between parties. The person agreeing signs it and both sides keep a copy.
The reason for the privacy is that sometimes the terms themselves may contain references to trade secrets etc.
BTW - contracts of this sort aren't always very nice. There's a big debate over a woman who was sexually assaulted by fellow employees in Iraq and, because of her contract, cannot sue or even file a legal complaint. Needless to say, it's being fought in court as to whether that is a legal agreement.
Quote: Yeah they can prove he bought such and such items. But how can they prove what his motivation was?
Motivation isn't relevant (legally) here, just the fact that the info was publicly revealed. If you're given a document under NDA and accidentally leave it on a table in a mall you're still guilty of violation even if you didn't mean to.
Also, in civil court (at least in the common law system - I think Iceland uses a different one but not certain) the standard of proof is different from criminal cases. Only 51% at fault in a common law system needs to be proven in civil or contract law.
The fact that a change to item X was in the meeting minutes and then a CSM went out and bought/sold item X in large quantity would almost certainly be more than sufficient for most juries.
Quote: Also my questions are still unanswered. Would you say from my hypothetical the person would have to buy all the warp core stabilizers or be in breach of contract?
Out of such questions are lawyer's fortunes made. In Iceland? I don't know.
In North America, you'd just have to convince a jury that there was more than 51% blame/intent (which I think most decent lawyers probably could do, but even lawyers can stuff up a case).
Remember that few NDA violations ever see a courtroom either. Usually it's just a nice legal way to turf the person very hard.
As to CCP's employees, again, I don't know Iceland's laws. In North America sometimes contracts are signed and sometimes they aren't and what's on them can be anything from very mellow to ridiculous (see the assault case above for instance). Most benefit the employers far more than the employees unless the employee has a highly unusual amount of bargaining power.
CCP might not even have contracts for their employees (my company doesn't for many of their salaried people) and just rely on Icelandic labour laws and who knows what they are?
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.30 14:07:00 -
[43]
Don't change history books, but revoking his shiny medal is fine.
/no support
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Cearain
Caldari ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.01.30 14:15:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Not supported.
... As for the "unanswered question" above, it remains unanswered because its irrelivant. "Going to do" =/= "did".
No in both the unanswered question and what larkonis did, the person *did* take unfair advantage (as compared to other players) of information he obtained from being on the csm.
If you get teh medal for being elected to the csm he should have his medal. If you get a medal for successfully serving a full term on the csm he should not have ever gottne the medal in the first place.
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Cearain
Caldari ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.01.30 14:38:00 -
[45]
@Jarvis Your comments they are pretty well thought out, assuming your not a lawyer.
On the Larkonis case motivation (or some similar term depending on the contract language) is important. People in csm can make trades and continue to play eve AFAIK. So its not like you provide proof he traded on the market and the case is open and shut. They would have to prove that he was motivated to make these trades due to info he learned through the csm. That may seem easy to prove to a majority or die hard eve players but to a jury? I have to say ccp would run the risk of looking ridiculous and get hit with bad press for breach of their own contract. (Although that would be an unjust result and if it went that far larconis would have to perjure himself - which is always a bad idea.) IĘm not saying it would be a big deal but in the end it probably would not be a good thing for ccp.
As far as my hypothetical you say the person would have to go ahead and buy billions of isk worth of warp core stabilizers. I he didnĘt do that you think a lawyer would be able to prove he made that decsion (not to buy them) because of private info he obtained from the csm? Well assuming the person is honest like larkonis was he would admit it. So yeah I suppose they would be able to prove it.
Maybe CCP should require all employees and csm to sign somethign under oath every 6 months saying "I never changed any of my in game behavior because of any non public information I learned from being on csm or an employee of ccp." Such a thing would force anyone who changed any of their game play due to what they learned in private to either commit perjury or admit they are in breach of contract.
IĘm not asking for the whole employment/csm contract but how about the clause that prevents what larkonis and what the ccp employee did? (what the ccp employee did IMO was worse and may have gone completely unpunished) I mean do we even know that ccp employees are not allowed to spawn faction battleships for the alliances they are in? This sort of behavior was one of the reasons for the csm yet we donĘt know even this about ccp employees. Instead of csm having some scrutiny of what ccp employees do in game we have ccp scrutinizing csm. Sort of turning the thing on its head.
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Exlegion
Caldari Salva Veritate
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Posted - 2010.01.30 15:01:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Shigsy Edited by: Shigsy on 29/01/2010 18:12:23 Recently, CCP has been trying to cover up "The Larkonisgate Scandal". Ingame, his CSM 3 Medal was removed from his character, despite Larkonis's dedication to the CSM. Many of the players proprosals were voted in by larkonis, and he helped change Eve-Online for the greater good. He was voted into the CSM by the community, and therefor deserves his medal, unlike others who weren't voted in, yet were defaulted a medal because of Larkonisgate.
Not only this, but it appears CCP are trying to airbrush this whole incident from history. On their Wiki, Larkonis has been apparantly removed from the equation altogether. Personally, I think this is poor form by CCP, who gave so much to the CSM, and in return recieved so little.
The least that can be done to rectify this situation is the restore Larkonis's name to the Wiki record, and give him back his ingame Medal for his services.
If someone didn't know the whole story and only read your side one would think injustice was committed against this Larkonis character. But there is a whole other side to this story, a really ugly side, that pretty much would put this thread to end once and for all. The exception to this being the hardcore Larkonis fanbois that would support his doings no matter what they were.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Smacktalking Alt
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Posted - 2010.01.30 17:10:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Edited by: Larkonis TrassIer on 29/01/2010 20:30:26 That is a poor analogy dear, even from you. Perhaps if I had been found to have somehow subverted the datebase during the actual election that would be more fitting.
I was most upset to discover that my medal had been removed, but not so upset as to protest about it on the forums. I'm afraid Shigsy is merely trying to express his love for me by trying to do me a good turn.
EDIT: Adding my support anyway.
You're right, a better analogy would be to a celebrity getting his corporate sponsorship pulled because a video surfaced of him smoking a bong while performing sinful acts with a donkey.
This saga has been very interesting, and why anyone would want to get this erased from the wiki is beyond me. ------------------------------------------------- The world is a dangerous place for stupid people; their one advantage is strength in numbers. |
Smacktalking Alt
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Posted - 2010.01.30 17:30:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Herty He was a volunteer trying to improve everyones gameplay and he used some information (like all of us would don't lie) to make a little isk for himself.
Fascinating! Tell us more about the other CSM members who were caught acting on this information because they were powerless to resist their greed. ------------------------------------------------- The world is a dangerous place for stupid people; their one advantage is strength in numbers. |
Mrs Appleby
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Posted - 2010.01.30 21:24:00 -
[49]
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Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
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Posted - 2010.01.30 21:24:00 -
[50]
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Joe Appleby
Deformed inc Symbiogenesis
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Posted - 2010.01.30 21:24:00 -
[51]
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Gobbins
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.30 21:24:00 -
[52]
FREE LARK
- Gob
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Katharyn Booley
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Posted - 2010.01.30 21:30:00 -
[53]
Although Larkonis did make a scandal, he was still a member of the CSM and it should be reflected as such. Give him a custom dishonored medal or something.
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Ben Booley
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.01.30 21:33:00 -
[54]
FREE LARKONIS
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Pistrik
Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.01.31 08:58:00 -
[55]
No.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.01.31 09:24:00 -
[56]
this is prolly almost as ******ed as trying to use insider information and then wondering why your not on the committee anymore. Almost.
But hey how about a compromise? Give lark his medal back- then permaban him. Id support that petition.
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Mr Epeen
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Posted - 2010.02.04 18:18:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Mr Epeen on 04/02/2010 18:18:34
Larkonis is an idiot.
But then so are are half the people posting in this thread, so why should he be centered out in particular?
Well, I'd say it's because his idiocy caused him to over step the boundaries placed upon all of us by what's acceptable in game and out. He broke the rules. Like RMTers and ebayers, he crossed the line.
That he wasn't perma-banned is boggling enough, but to leave his name and any rewards he received as some sort of twisted memorial to his deeds would be the flip of the bird to the vast majority of players that do things by the rules.
Not supported
Mr Epeen
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.02.04 21:55:00 -
[58]
Why would we reward an insider-trader with a medal for service from the body that he betrayed?
[Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES] |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.05 03:04:00 -
[59]
wear it like its hot!
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Cearain
Caldari ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.02.05 03:07:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Mara Rinn Why would we reward an insider-trader with a medal for service from the body that he betrayed?
I thought the medal was given to him for getting elected, not for serving a full term. He was elected so if that is what you get a medal for, he should keep it. I mean should we also erase all his kills from the killboards? If he worked out a deal where ccp said they would take certain action against him in exchange for his stepping down CCP should honor the agreement they made and not (after he does his part of the agreement) start taking his stuff. Again just my two cents.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.02.05 04:59:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Marlona Sky Don't change history books, but revoking his shiny medal is fine.
/no support
Agreeing with this.
Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose. |
rubico1337
Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.02.05 12:27:00 -
[62]
Edited by: rubico1337 on 05/02/2010 12:30:56
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Hugo Lordmagnus What's the TL;DR on whatever he did?
used his knowledge to buy out stuff that would get more valuable with the changes CCP was planning.
The terrible irony is that it got less valuable.
Well you that is bad luck on top.
no, just stems from the market understanding of an infant
ITT: internet premaddona asks friend(so he doenst look like a premaddona) to post a whine about his pixels/medal he lost for trying to cheat the system. lurks thread until a couple posts later then supports thread, throws a tantrum when people dont agree. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. |
Moloch Baal
Amarr The Village Idiots
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Posted - 2010.02.05 14:49:00 -
[63]
Originally by: rubico1337
ITT: internet premaddona asks friend(so he doenst look like a premaddona) to post a whine about his pixels/medal he lost for trying to cheat the system. lurks thread until a couple posts later then supports thread, throws a tantrum when people dont agree.
you dont know too much about tantrums, now do you...
and
Originally by: Marlona Sky Don't change history books, but revoking his shiny medal is fine.
/no support
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Larkonis TrassIer
Trolls From Outer Space
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Posted - 2010.02.05 14:52:00 -
[64]
Originally by: rubico1337
no, just stems from the market understanding of an infant
ITT: internet premaddona asks friend(so he doenst look like a premaddona) to post a whine about his pixels/medal he lost for trying to cheat the system. lurks thread until a couple posts later then supports thread, throws a tantrum when people dont agree.
Still bitter about being muted bro?
ITT AH regulars continue to show just how easily trolled they are.
I don't quite see where I threw a tantrum btw.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.02.05 17:07:00 -
[65]
Hahaha. No.
Want to test a supercap on SISI but don't have one? |
rubico1337
Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.02.05 19:40:00 -
[66]
Edited by: rubico1337 on 05/02/2010 19:40:36
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
Originally by: rubico1337
no, just stems from the market understanding of an infant
ITT: internet premaddona asks friend(so he doenst look like a premaddona) to post a whine about his pixels/medal he lost for trying to cheat the system. lurks thread until a couple posts later then supports thread, throws a tantrum when people dont agree.
Still bitter about being muted bro?
ITT AH regulars continue to show just how easily trolled they are.
I don't quite see where I threw a tantrum btw.
nah, thought i would get that response of something to that effect, but trolling from an alt would be tarded
the fact that you so obviously asked one of your buddies to start this thread rather than starting it yourself is funny enough. its even more hilarious that its about some irrelevant ingame crown that you lost for breaking the NDA
i voted for you with my two accounts for the CSM, i liked what you stood for. i even gave you the benefit of the doubt when the scandal broke and you got kicked off. but the fact that you chose to attempt to run again so early looked arrogant, making this thread either doesnt help, and leads one to conclude that you are resting on your laurels righter than taking your licks, being humble about it, and waiting at least ONE interim term to run again
NOT supported Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. |
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