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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 89 post(s) |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2012.09.13 13:37:00 -
[571] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:If ISD is going to keep the peace in the R.I.P threads you have censor all sides. So far all I've seen censored are the anti-religion and let's-hug-the-world-panderers. We need to honor the man for all his contributions and accomplishments. Remove everything else because it's going to troll someone.
Seems that several words I intended to be in one sentence of the post are not there. It was supposed to have read:
So far all I've seen censored are the anti-religion and not the let's-hug-the-world-panderers.
And frankly - if you alter a person's post in any manner - that is censorship. It doesn't matter what the motivation is (good or "bad") or the outcome.
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ISD Eshtir
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
142
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Posted - 2012.09.13 13:46:00 -
[572] - Quote
KIller Wabbit wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:If ISD is going to keep the peace in the R.I.P threads you have censor all sides. So far all I've seen censored are the anti-religion and let's-hug-the-world-panderers. We need to honor the man for all his contributions and accomplishments. Remove everything else because it's going to troll someone.
Seems that several words I intended to be in one sentence of the post are not there. It was supposed to have read: So far all I've seen censored are the anti-religion and not the let's-hug-the-world-panderers. And frankly - if you alter a person's post in any manner - that is censorship. It doesn't matter what the motivation is (good or "bad") or the outcome.
As said above:
Quote:Please use the report button to help us to do our job.
If you think we censor posts / threads, file a petition. If you step over the line in a R.I.P. thread your post will be altered and if needed removed. If you post in a civil manner that doesnt break a forum rule, there is nothing to worry about. ISD Eshtir Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
59
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Posted - 2012.09.13 13:56:00 -
[573] - Quote
I find it hilarious that what you think you are doing is not censorship.
I'm adding this to be clear - I think keeping the R.I.P threads cleaned up of inflammatory comments is a good thing. IHMO. I just wanted to point out that *anything* beyond expressions of condolences and praise for the person could be a trolling attempt.
And yes, I flagged several of the posts. I know where that wee little flag is.
Edit: Clarity |
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ISD Eshtir
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
142
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Posted - 2012.09.13 14:03:00 -
[574] - Quote
This a privatly run message board, it is not Hyde Parks's speaking corner, people tend to forget that.
I agree, trolling comments could be hidden in each and every comment. If we do not spot them right away, there is always the chance that it is get reported and we look into it. ISD Eshtir Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Lord Ryan
True Xero
596
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Posted - 2012.09.13 15:48:00 -
[575] - Quote
ISD Eshtir wrote:This a privatly run message board, it is not Hyde Parks's speaking corner, people tend to forget that. I agree, trolling comments could be hidden in each and every comment. If we do not spot them right away, there is always the chance that it gets reported and we look into it. "I agree, trolling comments could be hidden in each and every comment." you mean like the one quoted above? Yes it's private and appears we are paying for the privilege of being trolled by you. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Pipa Porto
927
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Posted - 2012.09.13 17:42:00 -
[576] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:All I can offer you at this point is that it has been raised.
I hope you can see that where it is possible you do get feedback to the level that we can provide. A locked post will have a reply from the appropriate person stating the reason for the lock, An edited post will have a legend saying 'Edit: Reason - Volunteer Name' and a little flag saying Edited by '....'. If we delete posts, we will post in the thread to say that we've cleaned up, and why we've done so.
All of the above is current policy and should be followed at all times, although there may be a time delay between a thread being locked and a reply being posted.
Thank you for raising the issue.
The Edited by tag is woefully insufficient, so is a post saying that you've deleted posts because neither tell the person whose post you've edited or deleted that their specific post has been altered or removed. This means that people don't necessarily know if they're breaking the rules unless they're obsessive enough to regularly check every post of theirs. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Quaaid
Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn
130
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Posted - 2012.09.13 21:11:00 -
[577] - Quote
Am I really reading an argument over "if editing and/or deleting posts is censorship"?
Like... holy ****.... really? Is it not as plain as day? Don't get me wrong, I understand the necessity and not arguing for or against Censoring the forums, I just don't understand how it is not crystal clear to someone that what they are being tasked to do is to Censor and I need to explain it clearly.
Does editing and/or deleting the thoughts and words of others not qualify as censorship to you? What is censorship if not that?
ISD TEST:
When there is a black bar over naked people on public television, what is that called? ________________
Tyoe the word "****" and hit post.. why does it not say "****" anymore? _____________
Delete or change someones post and the context or even ability for it to be seen is forever lost, what do we call this? ___________
If you answered anything except censoring, then you are a qualified ISD. |
Pipa Porto
929
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Posted - 2012.09.13 22:49:00 -
[578] - Quote
ISD Eshtir wrote:If you think we censor posts / threads, file a petition. If you step over the line in a R.I.P. thread your post will be altered and if needed removed.
You're participating in censorship every time you perform a moderation action that wasn't specifically asked for by the posters affected by it.
If you think otherwise, I suggest you speak to Mr. Webster and register your complaints with him (or being that time travel/speaking with the dead is hard, the Merriam-Webster company).
That does not mean that that censorship is always uncalled for or that it is a bad thing. But please, don't pretend that editing or deleting someone else's speech is not censorship. It just makes you look silly. Like asking us to file a petition for every moderation action you perform.
Quote:If you post in a civil manner that doesnt break a forum rule, there is nothing to worry about.
So which rule did the OP of the James 315 CSM thread break? Because the trolling of a thread by other people calls for cleaning, not locking (or are you suggesting that your policy is to reward trolls by punishing their victims?). EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
63
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Posted - 2012.09.13 23:37:00 -
[579] - Quote
Hi,
I'd like to put this down in simple terms without resorting to word-play to make points here.
One of the jobs of the CCL team is to enforce CCPs mandated terms of usage via the forum rules.
These are private forums and CCP have extended the right to limit what gets posted upon them. In order to do so, the terms of usage state in no-uncertain terms that they reserve the right to Edit, Limit or remove any content posted to the forums at their discretion.
I encourage you to read the Forum Rules and in particular the Website Terms of use.
Thanks, and as always, please fly safe. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Pipa Porto
929
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Posted - 2012.09.14 01:28:00 -
[580] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:These are private forums and CCP have extended the right to limit what gets posted upon them. In order to do so, the terms of usage state in no-uncertain terms that they reserve the right to Edit, Limit or remove any content posted to the forums at their discretion.
Where did anyone claim otherwise? We're just calling out ISD Eshtir on his insistance that a spade is, in fact, a fork. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
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Smee1
the united Negative Ten.
1
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Posted - 2012.09.14 12:00:00 -
[581] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153773&find=unread
My point exactly. We must sit back like mutes and let idiots with powertrips moderate as they like no questions.
I get it now we must not have opinions the ISD dont agree with or it gets moderated right out the door.
These forums are getting unreadable with every other post sniped for trivial reasons. Its utter bullshit and now i cant voice my concerns or opinions on said forum cause the idiots just lock it. |
Smee1
the united Negative Ten.
1
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Posted - 2012.09.14 12:06:00 -
[582] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:Hi, I'd like to put this down in simple terms without resorting to word-play to make points here. One of the jobs of the CCL team is to enforce CCPs mandated terms of usage via the forum rules. These are private forums and CCP have extended the right to limit what gets posted upon them. In order to do so, the terms of usage state in no-uncertain terms that they reserve the right to Edit, Limit or remove any content posted to the forums at their discretion. I encourage you to read the Forum Rules and in particular the Website Terms of use. Thanks, and as always, please fly safe.
Moderate what needs moderated and quit the bull snipping that makes the ability to follow a thread impossible. Wind ur neck in from ur newly found powertrip and do your job. All i see is CENSORING and removing ppls freedom of speech. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
352
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Posted - 2012.09.14 12:11:00 -
[583] - Quote
Pipa Porto for CSM.
On a serious note, the censorship is getting to be a bit much. You can't hide behind the guise of "it's company policy." That's as bad as the banks we have to deal with every day when they pull out some hidden fee.
As a small business so involved with its community and so willing to listen to it, work with it, and have a beer with it, you should consider something; If a large portion of your paying customer base has a problem with a policy, review the policy.
It wouldn't take a massive amount of resources to research into policy implementation for ISD and forum rules, make it more robust, more detailed, or even less detailed. It's just a matter of going back to the underlying machine driving these unwarranted bans and saying, "Hmmm...maybe this rule is a little to open to interpretation."
And, I'm sorry to be rude but, just saying "It's a private forum and it's our policy" is equivalent to "deal with it." Why not just get rid of ship spinning again and show players the door? You're doing it verbally, just go all out. |
Smee1
the united Negative Ten.
1
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Posted - 2012.09.14 12:14:00 -
[584] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Pipa Porto for CSM.
On a serious note, the censorship is getting to be a bit much. You can't hide behind the guise of "it's company policy." That's as bad as the banks we have to deal with every day when they pull out some hidden fee.
As a small business so involved with its community and so willing to listen to it, work with it, and have a beer with it, you should consider something; If a large portion of your paying customer base has a problem with a policy, review the policy.
It wouldn't take a massive amount of resources to research into policy implementation for ISD and forum rules, make it more robust, more detailed, or even less detailed. It's just a matter of going back to the underlying machine driving these unwarranted bans and saying, "Hmmm...maybe this rule is a little to open to interpretation."
And, I'm sorry to be rude but, just saying "It's a private forum and it's our policy" is equivalent to "deal with it." Why not just get rid of ship spinning again and show players the door? You're doing it verbally, just go all out.
QFT
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
738
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Posted - 2012.09.14 12:58:00 -
[585] - Quote
Smee1 wrote:
These forums are getting unreadable with every other post sniped for trivial reasons. Its utter bullshit and now i cant voice my concerns or opinions on said forum cause the idiots just lock it.
Just do what I do, when that happens. Tell yourself the players just don't deserve to hear what you have to offer. They just aren't grown up enough, or just enjoy childish endeavors too much still. (Helps explain the threads about avatars)
Also try to look at the bright side of things more often. Why just this evening, ISD, inspired me to start adding rumor mongering to my repertoire. That is something, I thought I never would be. It is indeed a sandbox now, it is indeed a sandbox. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
115
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Posted - 2012.09.14 13:01:00 -
[586] - Quote
Smee1 wrote:
These forums are getting unreadable with every other post sniped for trivial reasons. Its utter bull and now i cant voice my concerns or opinions on said forum cause the idiots just lock it.
Umm, apart from violating the no swearing rule - what are you doing right now?
You're voicing your concerns and opinions on 'said forum' and you haven't been locked or censored have you?
No, didn't think so. |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
738
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Posted - 2012.09.14 13:07:00 -
[587] - Quote
For example in my last post which I was being a terrible troll, and doing rumour mongering. I linked this article.
About growing up
Which is an interviewish article with CCP saying, how them growing up helped them handle their problems better with dealing with the community. Perhaps we too should learn from this, and grow up a little bit. But First I practice or hopefully attempt to learn new skills, then I shall ride the train of maturity till the tracks end. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.09.14 13:31:00 -
[588] - Quote
This is funny...
I find that CCP have purposefuly fostered smacktalking, scamming, and general poor behaviour as a key point in there game with slogans such as "HTFU"
But now they are having to take measures to prevent this very thing on there own forums.
"You cannot play God then wash your hands of the things you created"
You created this playerbase CCP, did you not see this coming?
So my question is this, considering the current state of your forums and all you have encouraged over the years in an attempt to set yourselves apart from other game companies, was it worth it?
In addition, and more on track for this forum, It was mentioned by a member of the ISD earlier in this thread that they play the game and that you may see them in game and not know it, in light of this what guarantee do you provide that in-game vendettas will not spill over into the forum, and I won't be punished for blowing up an ISD volunteer for example. |
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ISD Praetoxx
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
94
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Posted - 2012.09.14 13:52:00 -
[589] - Quote
Just for the record, I would like to add that the CCL team is watched very closely by CCP and if/when required, CCP will intervene should they feel it necessary, this includes speaking with CCL members IF they should step over the line. We do not have free reign on the forums to moderate threads as we please. CCP has laid down strict rules and policies that all ISD members agreed to follow and uphold when they volunteered to join the program. Like you, we love the game and love the community. We are trying to do our part to make it better for everyone.
To some pilots, it may seem like we are just abusing our 'powers' and editing threads/posts as we see fit. This is not the case and could not be further from the truth.
EVE Online has a PEGI 12 rating, and as such, CCP have a legal obligation to ensure that any content contained within the game (forums/website included) is suitable for persons aged as young as 12 years old. EVE provides a great opportunity for families to enjoy the game and above all else, EVE Online provides an escape from all the stresses that RL throws at us. Why would you want to come home after a long day at the office, just to sign onto the forums to read a bunch of threads that seem to represent your day at the office.
Come home, UNPLUG from the hectic day, and enjoy your evening blowing up space ships, or mining an asteroid belt with your corporation. Explore the depths of a wormhole you just discovered. Leave all the aggro and stress at the door.
The next time your post/thread is moderated. Take a good look at it and have a think about why it was moderated. How would others view it, would they be offended? Is it suitable for a 12 year old? Is it even understandable?
I hope I have been successful in defusing alot of the hate and misunderstanding toward the ISD's. Please take a moment to try and understand that what we are doing is for the benefit of the entire community. Even 12 year old Timmy who cannot wait to fly his first Falcon.
Fly safe and post smart! ISD Praetoxx Ensign Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department |
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Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
353
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Posted - 2012.09.14 14:04:00 -
[590] - Quote
ISD Praetoxx wrote:Just for the record, I would like to add that the CCL team is watched very closely by CCP and if/when required, CCP will intervene should they feel it necessary, this includes speaking with CCL members IF they should step over the line. We do not have free reign on the forums to moderate threads as we please. CCP has laid down strict rules and policies that all ISD members agreed to follow and uphold when they volunteered to join the program, this includes having our main characters closely monitored by CCP for any hint of foul play or breach of the rules. We are governed by exactly the same rules as everyone else
Like you, we love the game and love the community. We are trying to do our part to make it better for everyone.
To some pilots, it may seem like we are just abusing our 'powers' and editing threads/posts as we see fit. This is not the case and could not be further from the truth..
And I'm sure CCP does moderate you. I and others are in no way saying you moderate as a method of vendetta for other actions in game or question your love of Internet Spaceships. You and the ISD/CCL are doing your jobs and you're following the policies set forth to you and doing so damn well. It's not necessarily you, but the policies themselves that CCP set forth that may have issues
Quote:EVE Online has a PEGI 12 rating, and as such, CCP have a legal obligation to ensure that any content contained within the game (forums/website included) is suitable for persons aged as young as 12 years old.
The ESRB does not rate online interactions. I can't speak for PEGI, but at least in the states, the forums and content made by other players, whether E, T, or M rated content, is not your responsibility (legally anyway...to an extent i.e. pr0nz, gore, etc)
Quote:EVE provides a great opportunity for families to enjoy the game and above all else, EVE Online provides an escape from all the stresses that RL throws at us. Why would you want to come home after a long day at the office, just to sign onto the forums to read a bunch of threads that seem to represent your day at the office.
The threads aren't really representative as a day of the office though. People fight and debate, and do it for fun. Some people simply enjoy debating for the sake for the sake of it. Why not let them to an extent? And there again in lies the problem; policy and definition of what is and is not acceptable may be too broadly defined and not exact enough.
Quote:The next time your post/thread is moderated. Take a good look at it and have a think about why it was moderated. How would others view it, would they be offended? Is it suitable for a 12 year old? Is it even understandable?
Again, rage threads or threads questioning game action, the community, or individual action does not call for censoring for the kids. Online interactions and content does not and should not be censored. You are responsible for the game content, the actual game, not our speech.
Quote:Even 12 year old Timmy who cannot wait to fly his first Falcon. And you say you do it for the kids...for shame... |
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Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.09.14 14:14:00 -
[591] - Quote
The problem is CCP created a product that generally is stressful, difficult and hectic, they don't discourage suicide ganking for example which is lets face it only a means to annoy others, they encourage scamming and other anti-social activities, and have slogans like I said before "HTFU" do you consider this slogan appropriate for 12 year old players?
As I see it, this community is exactly what CCP fostered it to be, so did they make a mistake? Are the ISD a prelude to major game changes/company changes in the future to bring the game closer to the 12 year old rating? |
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ISD Praetoxx
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
100
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Posted - 2012.09.14 14:18:00 -
[592] - Quote
I understand your points of view and thank you for the constructive posts. ISD Praetoxx Ensign Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department |
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Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.09.14 14:24:00 -
[593] - Quote
ISD Praetoxx wrote:I understand your points of view and thank you for the constructive posts.
And thank you, good luck in your post as ISD. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
353
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Posted - 2012.09.14 14:34:00 -
[594] - Quote
Hiro Ceffoe wrote: I feel the opposite, In my office everyone is nice and polite because it's a proffesional prerequisite, I come to EVE because it is harsh and unforgiving, people in EVE may hate me and I may hate them but it's all in a sandbox where nobody gets hurt. If I don't want that in a game I would go play a different game.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make is, CCP need to settle on a direction before they can presume to tell there playerbase what that direction is, you cannot foster cruelty and then complain when people are cruel.
All of my this. Are we HTFU Online or Hello Kitty Online? Or are we a balance of the two?
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ISD Praetoxx
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
104
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Posted - 2012.09.14 14:55:00 -
[595] - Quote
Hiro Ceffoe wrote:ISD Praetoxx wrote:I understand your points of view and thank you for the constructive posts. And thank you, good luck in your post as ISD.
My place or yours? ISD Praetoxx Ensign Community Communication Liasons (CCLs) Interstellar Service Department |
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Hiro Ceffoe
State War Academy Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.09.14 15:08:00 -
[596] - Quote
ISD Praetoxx wrote:My place or yours?
Depends, did CCP furnish you with shiny new digs or Is it one of those places with the leaky celing?
I sense continuation of this conversation would be considered innapropriate for EVEs target audience |
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
132
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Posted - 2012.09.14 16:57:00 -
[597] - Quote
Ban all ISDs!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
64
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Posted - 2012.09.14 17:11:00 -
[598] - Quote
ISD Praetoxx wrote:
EVE Online has a PEGI 12 rating, and as such, CCP have a legal obligation to ensure that any content contained within the game (forums/website included) is suitable for persons aged as young as 12 years old.
Wait, wait, excuse me while I get my laughter and tears under control... ok.. thanks.
Frankly there is NO WAY EVE should be played by anyone younger than 16, and I'd even say 18 would probably be appropriate. The game itself is okay for 12 year old, but the in-game community is a septic minefield. I've seen/heard every form of debauchery known to the human race displayed in the game. As an earlier poster mentioned - CCP reaps what it sows.
Which brings in a very, very interesting question - anyone want to take a guess how the fan is going to take the incredibly huge incoming hit from Dust? It's one thing to have mature content programmed into a game, it's another when a parent sees' or hears EVE's chat channels played out on the home big screen by EVE's best trollers (not to overlook the real ped's that are there as well).
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RomeStar
Astra Research
45
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Posted - 2012.09.14 17:21:00 -
[599] - Quote
Answer me this... I recetnly commented on a post about F2P inwhich I mentioned World Of Tanks and how much fun it is to play then I typed "W_O_P" with no space between letters which stands for World of Planes and guess what it was censored. Why was that censored on my post Im really curious. I understand some moderation but for crying out loud Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
Smee1
the united Negative Ten.
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 00:22:00 -
[600] - Quote
ISD Praetoxx wrote:Just for the record, I would like to add that the CCL team is watched very closely by CCP and if/when required, CCP will intervene should they feel it necessary, this includes speaking with CCL members IF they should step over the line. We do not have free reign on the forums to moderate threads as we please. CCP has laid down strict rules and policies that all ISD members agreed to follow and uphold when they volunteered to join the program, this includes having our main characters closely monitored by CCP for any hint of foul play or breach of the rules. We are governed by exactly the same rules as everyone else.
Like you, we love the game and love the community. We are trying to do our part to make it better for everyone.
To some pilots, it may seem like we are just abusing our 'powers' and editing threads/posts as we see fit. This is not the case and could not be further from the truth.
EVE Online has a PEGI 12 rating, and as such, CCP have a legal obligation to ensure that any content contained within the game (forums/website included) is suitable for persons aged as young as 12 years old. EVE provides a great opportunity for families to enjoy the game and above all else, EVE Online provides an escape from all the stresses that RL throws at us. Why would you want to come home after a long day at the office, just to sign onto the forums to read a bunch of threads that seem to represent your day at the office.
Come home, UNPLUG from the hectic day, and enjoy your evening blowing up space ships, or mining an asteroid belt with your corporation. Explore the depths of a wormhole you just discovered. Leave all the aggro and stress at the door.
The next time your post/thread is moderated. Take a good look at it and have a think about why it was moderated. How would others view it, would they be offended? Is it suitable for a 12 year old? Is it even understandable?
I hope I have been successful in defusing alot of the hate and misunderstanding toward the ISD's. Please take a moment to try and understand that what we are doing is for the benefit of the entire community. Even 12 year old Timmy who cannot wait to fly his first Falcon.
Fly safe and post smart!
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