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FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
37
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Posted - 2012.06.26 18:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Pboyt wrote:Danika Princip wrote:If you had time to hit the guy with one of these, why didn't you just point him? What makes you think jumping on top of him will work when you failed to point him last time? I think your questions are irrelevant to the viability of this module. In the way you have described it, your question is just as applicable to general probing. Do you think probing ships is also pointless Danika? Based on the question you asked? Asking why a target was failed to be pointed does not mean trying to find that target and having a second chance is pointless (excuse the pun). You must remember that this module was a suggestion to provide an alternative to the NEED of probing alts/characters, which many small gangs and lone pvper's may feel is lacking in eve. But even if I was going to try to answer your questions I could think of lots of reasons. - You forgot to point him - He got out of point range (overheated) - You never got a scram on him because he was initially too far - Perhaps this module works at a much longer range than a point. Maybe it could work at 40km+
Actually he / she had a very good point. You simply refused to accept it. I am guessing you ignore intellectual discussions right away?
How would this not break current mechanics? Warp bubbles, warp scramblers, interceptors, and all that good stuff already exists. How would this not give gate camping an additional bonus?
Also, as he / she pointed out, if you could have prevented them from warping..... why not do that?
Also, your idea is rubbish from a simple perspective: you would constantly fly in circles with the target since you would lock onto them during mid warp and then constantly need to catch up. So half baked idea is not only half baked but also partially alive screaming for it to be put out of its misery.
Sincerely,
FireT |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
37
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Posted - 2012.06.26 18:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
*sigh*
Ok, please tell me as an unintelligent player how (given the same internet speed, computer processing power, and such) your idea would be useful?
You yourself said that your mechanic only requires you to keep warping away. So if I keep warping in circles you would never catch me. What if I have save spots in systems. Even less likely you will find me since warping would take longer.
And you did mention 'the other person's response to being irrelevant'. So I am no more rude than you are.
Hi pot, I am kettle. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
37
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nice, that is one option. Now let us look at what you ignore: the worst case the scenarios.
How would this enable any surprise attacks in 0.0? So let us assume you manage to point your target with your tracker but he escapes. Suddenly that tracker can chase the target for, as you said, at least 15 minutes. 15 minutes is a lot of time if you consider that this might effectively prevent cyno lighting. Instead suddenly there is a "hey guys, get online there might be something going on." Would they try to cyno and ditch then? Is that possible?
Hell, good alliances might simply triangulate your rough position and literally throw a warp bubble net around your rough location.
As much as I love new ideas, I recommend you consider how it could be abused. Not only "Hey I had an idea and it should be implemented." CCP is trying to balance the game after all. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
37
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Posted - 2012.06.26 19:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
That is the exact problem, as I already pointed out, your idea is half alive asking to die. You yourself stated you want it as a second shot at a target. That is fine..... though you can do that already with some patience and skill. So you seem to lack the patience and skill. Similarly your idea is completely negated if the player docks and gets another ship. So the system would not work for half competent players that know to switch ships or fly in groups.
And the 'professionals' in Eve would most likely exploit it to make it even harder to sneak into their homes systems.
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: The ONLY real potential I see: AWOXing.... You tag your spy in the enemy fleet, and punt your fleet on top of them... The enemy fleet won't see probes, and wont have any real notice that the incoming fleet will land on top of them, leading to interesting fleet combat scenarios....
How would that work. OP already mentioned it would notify you that you had been tagged (hard to miss). So the rational strategy would be to have that player not be in the fleet and stay away till it is over. Hell, the only good idea would be to then have him as bait essentially. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
37
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Posted - 2012.06.26 20:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pboyt wrote:FireT's posts continue to insult and provoke... 'Your idea is half alive waiting to die' (which I've already warned him about) and 'You seem to lack the patience and skill'.
I have both. The problem is I solo pvp. No amount of 'skill' or 'patience' gives me the ability to track down a safespotted enemy solo. Maybe it shouldnt - but if i've had the chance to engage him already in battle then maybe it should give me the right to warp on him.
Now if your about to say 'why dont you just fit a probe launcher to your solo pvp ship', thats not feasable. You cannot maintain a tank, maintain damage, maintain a point AND ON TOP OF ALL THAT probe. Its simply not possible.
.
Ok let me clarify this once and for all. You: I WANT A SECOND CHANCE TO PEW PEW. BUT I DO NOT WANT THEM TO HAVE A CHANCE TO ESCAPE.
Seriously?
Also reread the posts. Your idea is not practicle since you can not really chase someone that warps out. If they remain in system then they should have a chance to hide too. Else you simply force them to station gaming or system jumps. And if you also expect your tracker to work outside the initial system, then holy space cow, that would be even more broken.
The only possible way this could be limited is with the range it uses and that it would have to be limited to the system it occurred in. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
37
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pboyt wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: The typical reason a tagged target would "get away" is if is fast enough to outrun your tackle.... Although it might be a lucky jam... Essentially, if you're prey got away from you once, it will probably be able to get away from you again... meaning this rarely improve your chances of catching a tagged target....
Yea. That might be the case. But why is that an issue? Whenever you make a point that the module will not help you kill a target, it doesn't really argue against the module existing. It just simply means people will not use it in that scenario that you have suggested, which I have no objections to. You cannot invent a module which will be used all the time and be useful in all situations. That is unbalanced. You offer times when it isnt useful - thats fine. However, I have clearly described a scenario earlier when it could be useful. Such as when I am a solo sleipnir that tagged a drake, then ran myself because another enemy scorpion was joining the fight, then later returned to the drake I tagged who happened to be ratting again in belts.
One case scenario does not make it a viable option to never be exploited in any shape or form. Reread my previous post for I edited some additional stuff into it. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
39
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Posted - 2012.06.26 20:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sigh, you really just think your idea is a giant gold nugget of brilliance sprinkled with rainbows. Fine here are the problems with your idea:
1) What range would that module have to be useful? How would it be more likely to be used then all other EWAR methods?
2) With targeting scripts you could effectively tag anything since your locking time would be nearly instantaneous. So gate campers would love this (or so I presume).
3) You seem to want to have a global tracker. Idiotic since you never put forth a limitation. Your only limitation seems to be 15 minutes and directionally scanning? Fine, all you would end up doing is a Bucks Bunny cartoon chase where you and your target keep warping around for 15 minutes. Nothing really done then. Your only target audience are afk pilots and careless people. Which usually tend to be easy pickings already.
So how would this not be exploitable if you go into different systems?
4) A second chance does exist, by your own admission, you just do not like probing and want an easier skill.
5) You yourself pointed out its uselessness that you could simply switch ships.
There, hope this helped. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
39
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Posted - 2012.06.26 20:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
I know I know, no double posting, BUT the OP did not think of the actual situation of this module: it should only be applicable / actively allow tracking if the target uses a cloaking device. Since most ships that are not cloaked can be found through patience and work, I would suggest the original idea of 'tracking' the target for 15 minutes only be applicable to cloaked ships.
As it stands right now, cloaked ships are rather save once they manage to disappear. So why not have a ship that is specifically designed to 'interfere' with their cloaking for a set duration, giving the cloaker a must to pay attention afterward and those that are chasing him time to try and catch him.
That would eb the only situation it would be worth having in the game, for me at least. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
41
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Posted - 2012.06.26 21:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pboyt wrote:Fantastic example of the possible use of this module that I did not consider. Very interesting concept - and one that could be potentially devastating.
I dispute your statement saying it is the only real application of it. There are others such as the scenario I described earlier. I'm hoping people can come up with more.
No, your application was a giant I WANT A SECOND GANK CHANCE. Which I contest already exists in the form of probes.... which you seem to ignore / refuse because it takes SP investment and actual patience. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
41
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Posted - 2012.06.27 14:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pboyt wrote:FireT, before you speak anymore you should go back to my post where I responded to every single point of yours and called it out as being not relevant, and not exploitative. Do that now. FireT wrote: No, your application was a giant I WANT A SECOND GANK CHANCE. Which I contest already exists in the form of probes.... which you seem to ignore / refuse because it takes SP investment and actual patience.
I'm sorry FireT. But now I have to start getting quite blunt, since you are clearly ignoring every point I am making. YOU CANNOT JUST FIT A PROBE LAUNCHER ONTO A SOLO PVP SHIP
It has NOTHING TO DO WITH SKILL POINTS. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PATIENCE. You just cannot do both. As an interesting side note I found this thread about 'warp trials'. It suggests the ability to follow a target into warp. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13226&find=unread
Let me explain: YES YOU CAN YOU JUST CHOOSE NOT TO. |
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FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
41
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Posted - 2012.06.27 18:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pboyt wrote: How many times will I have to repeat myself? This module is designed for the solo pvper.
I think right there is your problem with us. You want something for yourself disguised as your idea for small group of solo players. DESPITE us pointing out you have the choices already available.
The only thing you do is bring up is ONE SINGLE ship ship that could not fit our recommendations. You literally are too narcissistic to fly anything beyond your beloved Slepnir to actually do what Eve already offers. In which case, you are a stubborn troll that is willingly ignorant.
Your idea won't be (ever) implemented since it is a very selfish demand and CCP has a massive list of other things to worry about. Just go find their constantly updating 'to do list'.
I am done with this discussion. Tried to point out the flaws in this but the original poster is to trolltarded. Sorry but its true.
Ninja edit: your idea was poorly designed. Yours only requires a 15 minute timer. But what about range and such of the actual module. Why should it be applicable if the player warps? Shouldn't warp speed effectively throw it off? |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 18:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am insulting because you came up with a half baked idea at best: something else but probing (because I do not like a high slot probe launcher).
As a few people pointed out, probing already does what you want. So why add another semi probing? Do you really think CCP has nothing better to do than to make random modules of similar types in different slots?
Hell, by the look of their latest 'works in progress list' CCP will be busy simply implementing the current player wishlist within the next 5 years.
So yes, your idea is already there: probing. You just do not want to probe.
You do not like something, accept it and stop complaining. But no, you want a second chance at a gank. That is already there: local and probing. I would ask for your stuff, in case you quit because your idea won't be implemented, but it seems you might not have much.
Sorry, but CCP's current balancing act of ALL ships being balanced takes more priority than this silly idea.
My last question: why can you not fit a probe launcher? Seriously, so far you seem hell bent on not probing without an alt. Why is that? Patience issues? I am sincerely confused. yes it takes longer than your tracker, but your tracker idea is rather half baked since you ignore the mid slot, its range, duration, and limitations. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 18:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Goodbye. Your idea should have been this:
New module: Tracker, a mid slot module that allows you to follow a marked target through a system for a set period of time. Due to the unique tracking frequency the target has an active timer counter showing the remaining time before it elapses.
Type: mid slot
Length of time: 15 minutes of having the chance to pursue and try to hunt down target.
Limitations: the target is ware of being marked. The tracker only functions within the same solar system. If the target leaves the system the tracker does not work (though finding the same target with the tracker in an adjacent system would allow for continued pursued. Similarly the tracker does not work if target is within a station (station hull density and internal communications prevent signals from leaving the station).
Counter: The current tracker does not have an active counter / module counter except the time limit.
Any suggestions ladies and gentlemen? |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
47
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Posted - 2012.06.28 13:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Xhaiden Ora wrote: You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Highjacking this topic: Why does this saying exist? It makes no practical sense to me. It is cake that you own. What other function does cake serve beside being delicious inside my tummy? Seriously, why is that saying so prevalent? Cake is meant to be eaten.
Back on topic, I think the module could have a limited application for cloaker tagging. But as some already pointed out warp scramble does the same. So why add another module for second chance. |
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