Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
169
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Currently there is a little dustup going on in Delve between the Haves and Have-nots. The problem I see, is that in a war of attrition, there can be only one winner. Doesn't mean they are the best, simply means that CCP has created a situation where one group can control an Isk faucet that makes any PVP losses meaningless. Not only that, but they they have let this issue go on for such a long time, that the amount of ISK in Alliances pockets makes it impossible to combat. You can have numbers, skills, ships, FC's...and still end up losing to a group filled with newer players, poorer skills, and sloppy execution, simply because they can get right back in another ship and fight again, without any personal loss of isk.
So, is this really good for the game?
IBTL, IBTT......
"CCP, is a cutting edge developer, they have found a way to sell lag to their customers, and make them believe it's a feature." |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1326
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Past a certain point, ISK loss is mostly immaterial for large alliances. War becomes more about morale, ideology, and actually beating your enemy... not just "winning the ISK war" in skirmishes. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Of course not. CCP has needed to fix tech since... before the r64 nerf/Tech buff hit TQ. See Akita T's post on the subject.
OTEC just happened along to drive the point home, and if the member of the CSM most active in the fight to fix tech were still there, there would be some chance that it would get fixed. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
889
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
There is always a risk of someone invading your alliance for several years, and then one day, BAM, everything is gone. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1362
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
So you're whining that you've lost a war before it starts, eh?
I wonder if a different outlook might help you. Here's a hint, though, the dominant groups in EvE got there without all the tech moons in their pockets (indeed, that was the end reward for their efforts) so I'm really not sure you have a point.
(all the leading elements of 0.0 power started life as underdogs against larger much richer alliances) - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1328
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Of course not. CCP has needed to fix tech since... before the r64 nerf/Tech buff hit TQ. See Akita T's post on the subject.
OTEC just happened along to drive the point home, and if the member of the CSM most active in the fight to fix tech were still there, there would be some chance that it would get fixed. Tech needs to be nerfed, but for reasons of balancing the economy rather than for reason of nerfing the CFC war machine. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar Intrepid Crossing
133
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Initially tech provided a point of conflict. However that was not anticipating the politically stable megablob that is the CFC. With that the point of conflict becomes a self reinforcing barrier to assault. So CCP have stated they are looking at tech. However I do wish it would be sooner rather than later. I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance. |
stoicfaux
1164
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Put a timer on pod deaths. The more you die, the longer the delay before you can undock. Alliances keep their wealth, but the main resource, people, becomes limited to prevent excessive zerging.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Of course not. CCP has needed to fix tech since... before the r64 nerf/Tech buff hit TQ. See Akita T's post on the subject.
OTEC just happened along to drive the point home, and if the member of the CSM most active in the fight to fix tech were still there, there would be some chance that it would get fixed. Tech needs to be nerfed, but for reasons of balancing the economy rather than for reason of nerfing the CFC war machine.
Ayup. That's what I said. The CFC didn't have any Tech when the r64 nerf happened. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1328
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Put a timer on pod deaths. The more you die, the longer the delay before you can undock. Alliances keep their wealth, but the main resource, people, becomes limited to prevent excessive zerging. Please consider the others you'd be nerfing in the process Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
|
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Put a timer on pod deaths. The more you die, the longer the delay before you can undock. Alliances keep their wealth, but the main resource, people, becomes limited to prevent excessive zerging.
So 2 hours with a thrasher will let me game mechanically camp someone into station forever? Sweet. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Pisov viet
Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore
70
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Currently there is a little dustup going on in Delve between the Haves and Have-nots. The problem I see, is that in a war of attrition, there can be only one winner. Doesn't mean they are the best, simply means that CCP has created a situation where one group can control an Isk faucet that makes any PVP losses meaningless. Not only that, but they they have let this issue go on for such a long time, that the amount of ISK in Alliances pockets makes it impossible to combat. You can have numbers, skills, ships, FC's...and still end up losing to a group filled with newer players, poorer skills, and sloppy execution, simply because they can get right back in another ship and fight again, without any personal loss of isk.
So, is this really good for the game?
IBTL, IBTT......
Tech is not infinite. One moon only produce that much every month, and it only sells for that much. Destroy enough ships and the technetium wont be enough to keep up.
You also raise the question of how "a group filled with newer players, poorer skills, and sloppy execution" may have beaten one with "numbers, skills, ships, FC's" at getting control of tech.
And really, no, being able to get a structure that makes individual losses a non-issue is rather kickass. It makes people want to play the game and blow **** up instead of only taking fights when they're sure they wont risk to lose their 300m battleship. |
Ravan Hekki
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
That be the breaks dude. Lets be honet though that fight started with TASHA, 99%, and TEST rolling Delve and it was a forgone conclusion there. Those three alliances had more will to take the space than those who held it had to keep it. Dont moan in a forum, get in space and fight. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1666
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 21:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote: Not only that, but they they have let this issue go on for such a long time, that the amount of ISK in Alliances pockets makes it impossible to combat. You can have numbers, skills, ships, FC's...and still end up losing to a group filled with newer players, poorer skills, and sloppy execution, simply because they can get right back in another ship and fight again, without any personal loss of isk.
I promise you, numbers, skills, ships and FCs are all in favor of the CFC anyway.
Seriously, do the delvies think they have FCs on par with Vee or Shadoo? TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1666
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 21:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ravan Hekki wrote:That be the breaks dude. Lets be honet though that fight started with TASHA, 99%, and TEST rolling Delve and it was a forgone conclusion there. Those three alliances had more will to take the space than those who held it had to keep it. Dont moan in a forum, get in space and fight.
TEST had no intention to take space.
It seriously just happened. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
207
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 21:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Ravan Hekki wrote:That be the breaks dude. Lets be honet though that fight started with TASHA, 99%, and TEST rolling Delve and it was a forgone conclusion there. Those three alliances had more will to take the space than those who held it had to keep it. Dont moan in a forum, get in space and fight. TEST had no intention to take space. It seriously just happened. you got played |
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
141
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 22:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Ravan Hekki wrote:That be the breaks dude. Lets be honet though that fight started with TASHA, 99%, and TEST rolling Delve and it was a forgone conclusion there. Those three alliances had more will to take the space than those who held it had to keep it. Dont moan in a forum, get in space and fight. TEST had no intention to take space. It seriously just happened. Losing sov is the price for bad posting instead undocking. |
Tallianna Avenkarde
Deadman W0nderland
354
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 11:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Ravan Hekki wrote:That be the breaks dude. Lets be honet though that fight started with TASHA, 99%, and TEST rolling Delve and it was a forgone conclusion there. Those three alliances had more will to take the space than those who held it had to keep it. Dont moan in a forum, get in space and fight. TEST had no intention to take space. It seriously just happened.
I can confirm that. No troll, but 99% actually started the sov war in delve. We have been wanting a station of our own for months, rather then being gypsies camped on tests lawn, so we decided to SBU a efw systems. Ground down ZXB on our own with 15 tier 3's and SB's. Nulli thought it would be fun to come stomp our little endevour, so TEST & PL being the awesome big brothers that they are came to push the bully back.
For near on a month our 4 alliances (99, TASHA, PL, TEST) made a push into delve with Nulli slowly escalating more friends into the battle. When Raiden announced they were coming down, that finally annoyed the CFC enough that they made the decision to come down to help us.
Also, as for the OP reffering to us as the haves, are not raiden a major Tech holding empire as well? Don't they have arguably the largest ACTIVE super fleet in game at the moment? Don't you think that the SoCo can pull AT LEAST as many numbers as the BadgerFuck Coalition? And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |
Tobias Durandal
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 11:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
It's not only good, it's great.
This is where certain of aspects of warfare that most people neglect come into play.
Ideals.
You want to beat a supermassive powerhouse, and you haven't got the economy or numbers to back it up? Formulate a vision that people can rally behind and those become non-problems. If the rhetoric is strong enough, your forces become overwhelming eventually. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1199
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 11:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
op is mad that nulli's going to get steamrolled out of delve (( a rogue goon |
|
Tallianna Avenkarde
Deadman W0nderland
354
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 12:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
The rohktrain is coming to delve, and Shadoo is the conductor :toot: And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
203
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 12:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:Currently there is a little dustup going on in Delve between the Haves and Have-nots. The problem I see, is that in a war of attrition, there can be only one winner.
xDeathx said once: alliance is a social network. It can't be destroyed from outside. It only can die from inside.
It doesn't matter how many ships/people/ISK/whatever has your enemy. To completely destroy your alliance he needs to take all your sov, kill all your ships/stuff, get you into NPC/highsec and block you from undock. Even then you can fight and survive.
Alliance lives while people support it. Once people get bored/tired and leave alliance dies.
What happening now in Delve/Querious? Yes, goons + PL + whatever are strong enemy. And they CAN clear Querious and sov-Delve from southern alliances. But then we have NPC Delve. And while people can group and make a fleet to fight war isn't finished.
|
Tobias Durandal
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 12:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'd also like to interject with nitpicking here. Nothing is risk-free in this place.
Low-risk, certainly. |
Alexzandvar Douglass
NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING En Garde
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 12:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:op is mad that nulli's going to get steamrolled out of delve ((
Looks like that would be anything but the case. Get on the front lines and fight, see for your self. Triple A and pets along with Red Alliances are here to hold the line. |
Katrina Bekers
Rim Collection RC Test Alliance Please Ignore
119
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 12:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Christopher AET wrote:not anticipating the politically stable megablob that is the CFC. This is rather amusing.
Being successful at sociality, having charisma, being able to put together a very diverse bunch of sperglords and coordinating thousands of them in battles that at times were monumentally boring, toward a common goal and giving them a fun and rewarding reason to log on... Is something the management did not anticpate?
What the CFC managed to do (and many other supposedly unbeatable mega coalitions before them, mind you) is unfiguratively winning at the morale game, and it's a problem that needs fixing?
Fix the head of who think that the game must revolve around self-appointed ~elitepvp~, where K/D kb ratio has any meaning, and you will see many more socially successful structures that can go at each others' throat more easily! << THE RABBLE BRIGADE >> |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1129
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
Katrina Bekers wrote:Fix the head of who think that the game must revolve around self-appointed ~elitepvp~, where K/D kb ratio has any meaning, and you will see many more socially successful structures that can go at each others' throat more easily! Drakes, great ~isk efficiency~.
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:op is mad that nulli's going to get steamrolled out of delve (( Looks like that would be anything but the case. Get on the front lines and fight, see for your self. Triple A and pets along with Red Alliances are here to hold the line. Yay, pets are here !
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:The rohktrain is coming to delve, and Shadoo is the conductor :toot: So we'll be there...
with Shadoo Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1199
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:op is mad that nulli's going to get steamrolled out of delve (( Looks like that would be anything but the case. Get on the front lines and fight, see for your self. Triple A and pets along with Red Alliances are here to hold the line.
"We will clog their guns" a rogue goon |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1129
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:op is mad that nulli's going to get steamrolled out of delve (( Looks like that would be anything but the case. Get on the front lines and fight, see for your self. Triple A and pets along with Red Alliances are here to hold the line. "We will clog their guns" Our newbees will clog their guns too :) Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1199
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRD3cqYPgXE&feature=player_embedded a rogue goon |
SC0T1SH WARRIOR
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
99
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 14:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
You can have numbers, skills, ships, FC's...and still end up losing to a group filled with newer players, poorer skills, and sloppy execution, simply because they can get right back in another ship and fight again, without any personal loss of isk.
perhaps you underestimated us?
I mean, really. if we are that poorly skilled with sloppy execution, explain how we managed to get as far as we have? you just think to yourself "oh, they're all idiots, they can't do anything really..."? meanwhile, we're on the doorstep, leaking into the hall, sleeping with your friends in the upstairs room, hanging out your bathroom windows and pissing out the back door... and only now that some form of **** has hit the fan have you realized that there is a threat...
so, uh, numbers, skills, ships, FC's, but no brains? pretty much failed to begin with then?
Dont mind me, -ájust touching your stuff. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |