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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Caoim Fearghul
Caldari Ammatar Free Corps Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.07 22:41:00 -
[121]
So, will we get a Dev responding about what exactly it was they did to keep the D-GTMI node alive for their little experiment and how it caused ships to remain in space hours after a pilot logged out?
And can they then perhaps CC it to the customer support people....
And perhaps after that, refrain from monkeying with the game mechanics in the middle of a fight... Prodesse Non Nocere
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Serene Pity
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Posted - 2010.02.08 05:59:00 -
[122]
+1 whining. Shame on you CCP !
The new gameplay is technically unplayable and it s now official.
"You lost everything on the battles we wanted you to be involved in Dominion ? Yes it s our fault but we can t do anything for you. Keep playing and keep paying please. Thanks for being so addicted to eve and don't look after another game please. CCP" |
FlameGlow
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 07:06:00 -
[123]
So big Dominion fights are supposed to be like: jump in wait wait wait wait upgrade clone
_____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button. |
Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.02.08 07:12:00 -
[124]
Originally by: LaVista Vista I think it's great to see that it is being worked on.
If CCP working on it is "great" what would be just "okay" - Not working on it but saying "we know it exists"? Would not doing or saying anything then be a "bad" thing?
But keep in mind: The tests to sort this out started only a month ago. Don't get ahead of yourself and expect them to come up with fix right now. This is serious business and there is no magic wand or switch they can use to resolve this...
/sarcasm
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Jewed Lawl
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Posted - 2010.02.08 07:42:00 -
[125]
Been told that this devblog is a panic response released after CCP realised that AAA have known about all the technical details of this bug for some time, almost as if told directly via a medium such as MSN.
This is why the devblog was never proof read else the bragging about keeping the node alive would have been redacted for obvious reasons. It's just meant to level the playing field and give every alliance the same information on how the exploit works so CCP can shrug and state the same information is available to all.
Well done CCP
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.02.08 09:03:00 -
[126]
You ppl whine way too much.
You whine when they dont release details. You whine when they do release details. You whine when the node crashes. You whine when they prevent the node from crashing.
Anyone else noticing a pattern here?
Im pretty much convinced everone living in null is a 4 yr old girl.
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CCP Atlas
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Posted - 2010.02.08 09:37:00 -
[127]
Thank you all for your comments. I'll just make a brief comment about the concerns people have about the node being kept alive for the 1600 person fight that is mentioned in the blog.
We are deploying a fix to Tranquility this week (probably tomorrow) which identical to the methods used that fateful night in keeping the node up. The problem was that under great strain nodes were unable to contact the database to 'heartbeat' which is a way for them to tell the cluster that they are alive and kicking. A bug was introduced in the Dominion expansion where database calls were not scheduled 'fairly' so low level management functionality such as the heartbeat would not have enough precedence over game functionality such as shooting a gun. This was jury-rigged live on Jan 28th and is making its way to a permanent fix this week. The fix that is being deployed is identical to the live-fix that was made on Jan 28th.
So, despite 'making people faint' comments this change was done in an extremely controlled manner and was not a case of 'keeping the node alive longer than it should have been'. If the node would have been allowed to die the results would have been extremely bad for everyone as the solarsystem would not have been properly persisted, and it would have come up on a different node, where it would immediately die again because of the population count and that would continue to cascade as long as there were more than ~1000 people fighting there leading to horrible gameplay for those involved and a possible destabilization of certain parts of the cluster.
The cluster cannot gracefully handle a 1600 person fleet fight right now but bouncing between dying nodes every 2 minutes with the solar system in an indeterminate state is not really any kind of a solution.
We will be deploying fixes this week and the next and are continuing to closely monitor fights as they occur. Please bear with us a little while longer.
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Caoim Fearghul
Caldari Ammatar Free Corps Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 09:46:00 -
[128]
I am still left wondering how exactly that results in the ghost ships that can be killed an hour after a pilot has logged out? Prodesse Non Nocere
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Captain Thunk
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2010.02.08 10:29:00 -
[129]
Originally by: CCP Atlas If the node would have been allowed to die the results would have been extremely bad for everyone as the solarsystem would not have been properly persisted, and it would have come up on a different node, where it would immediately die again because of the population count and that would continue to cascade as long as there were more than ~1000 people fighting there leading to horrible gameplay for those involved and a possible destabilization of certain parts of the cluster.
So you're saying when two forces fight each other in a system then you'd much rather one group dies to a total buttf**k thanks to your bugs rather than have both suffer equally?
You guys are cretins. Please don't ever leave CCP, I would much rather sleep safe at night knowing that you're only able to do damage to a fictional make belief game rather than worrying if you're working somewhere where you can actually do real harm.
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Kanuo Ashkeron
Capital Construction Research
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Posted - 2010.02.08 10:49:00 -
[130]
It seems the epic fleet fights for conquering 0.0 space will be done using t1 frigs in the future
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:19:00 -
[131]
Originally by: CCP Atlas
So, despite 'making people faint' comments this change was done in an extremely controlled manner and was not a case of 'keeping the node alive longer than it should have been'. If the node would have been allowed to die the results would have been extremely bad for everyone...
*confused*
In one sentence you are saying that you did not keep the node alive and then the next sentence starts with "If the node would have been allowed to die"?? So did you prevent the death of the node or not?
Keeping something alive means it would die on it's own. If it wouldn't die on its own there is no need to keep it alive by doing anything, no? If this was not a case of "keeping the node alive longer than it should have been" what case of "keeping it alive" was it?
Is this all just a case of poor wording? What did you really do and what would have happened without it?
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:26:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Future Mutant You ppl whine way too much.
You whine when they dont release details. You whine when they do release details. You whine when the node crashes. You whine when they prevent the node from crashing.
Anyone else noticing a pattern here?
Im pretty much convinced everone living in null is a 4 yr old girl.
Well CCP is not the first company to say one thing but do another. They are not the first to tell their customers there is no problem although there is one. They are not the first to start telling self-contradicting stories about what's happening. Also they wouldn't be the first company to stop doing that. That's nothing new at all.
But what do you find so admirable about that kind of behavior that you expect everyone to be content about it?
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Opus Dai
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:30:00 -
[133]
Looks to me like CCP is going out of its way to indicate they shafted a small section of the playerbase and there's nothing they can ever do about it.
I preferred it when trolling used to be confined to only players on COAD.
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Puicu
Caldari Rubbish and Garbage Removal Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:48:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Puicu on 08/02/2010 11:49:24 The solution exist gents and is simple! You just roll-back to Apocrypha 1.5 and voila, it will work!
If they will not resolve the lag in Dominion it will be the only solution, except the case they change recently the hardware which could be the second cause of the problem.
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Manks Girl
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Posted - 2010.02.08 12:02:00 -
[135]
I would like to ask CCP this.
If they experienced such problems as "paying gamers" what would their responses be to petitions that only get answered by copying and pasting customer service robots writing off any bugs that occured during big fleet fights.
I am a cap pilot that logged off at 23:15 died at 00:45. If the node was kept alive intentionally, it seems that the safety protocols of emergency warping when logging was turned off.
Can this finally be answered and confirmed? or is it going to be spin doctored again?
CCP realise your responses are directly related to people not renewing their subscriptions again.
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Serene Pity
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Posted - 2010.02.08 12:04:00 -
[136]
Originally by: CCP Atlas Thank you all for your comments. I'll just make a brief comment about the concerns people have about the node being kept alive for the 1600 person fight that is mentioned in the blog.
We are deploying a fix to Tranquility this week (probably tomorrow) which identical to the methods used that fateful night in keeping the node up. The problem was that under great strain nodes were unable to contact the database to 'heartbeat' which is a way for them to tell the cluster that they are alive and kicking. A bug was introduced in the Dominion expansion where database calls were not scheduled 'fairly' so low level management functionality such as the heartbeat would not have enough precedence over game functionality such as shooting a gun. This was jury-rigged live on Jan 28th and is making its way to a permanent fix this week. The fix that is being deployed is identical to the live-fix that was made on Jan 28th.
So, despite 'making people faint' comments this change was done in an extremely controlled manner and was not a case of 'keeping the node alive longer than it should have been'. If the node would have been allowed to die the results would have been extremely bad for everyone as the solarsystem would not have been properly persisted, and it would have come up on a different node, where it would immediately die again because of the population count and that would continue to cascade as long as there were more than ~1000 people fighting there leading to horrible gameplay for those involved and a possible destabilization of certain parts of the cluster.
The cluster cannot gracefully handle a 1600 person fleet fight right now but bouncing between dying nodes every 2 minutes with the solar system in an indeterminate state is not really any kind of a solution.
We will be deploying fixes this week and the next and are continuing to closely monitor fights as they occur. Please bear with us a little while longer.
And now what about the guys you sent that after they petitionned for their capital ship loss in DGTMI ?
Quote: Our reimbursement policies are very strict and we can only reimburse if we are able to verify that a bug or server error caused the loss. We hope that you understand our position and that you will recover swiftly from the loss.
It s still not a verified server error ?
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Aralis
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 12:13:00 -
[137]
Originally by: CCP Atlas Thank you all for your comments. I'll just make a brief comment about the concerns people have about the node being kept alive for the 1600 person fight that is mentioned in the blog.
We are deploying a fix to Tranquility this week (probably tomorrow) which identical to the methods used that fateful night in keeping the node up. The problem was that under great strain nodes were unable to contact the database to 'heartbeat' which is a way for them to tell the cluster that they are alive and kicking. A bug was introduced in the Dominion expansion where database calls were not scheduled 'fairly' so low level management functionality such as the heartbeat would not have enough precedence over game functionality such as shooting a gun. This was jury-rigged live on Jan 28th and is making its way to a permanent fix this week. The fix that is being deployed is identical to the live-fix that was made on Jan 28th.
So, despite 'making people faint' comments this change was done in an extremely controlled manner and was not a case of 'keeping the node alive longer than it should have been'. If the node would have been allowed to die the results would have been extremely bad for everyone as the solarsystem would not have been properly persisted, and it would have come up on a different node, where it would immediately die again because of the population count and that would continue to cascade as long as there were more than ~1000 people fighting there leading to horrible gameplay for those involved and a possible destabilization of certain parts of the cluster.
The cluster cannot gracefully handle a 1600 person fleet fight right now but bouncing between dying nodes every 2 minutes with the solar system in an indeterminate state is not really any kind of a solution.
We will be deploying fixes this week and the next and are continuing to closely monitor fights as they occur. Please bear with us a little while longer.
Nice. So you simultaneously did and didn't keep the node alive. Please less quantum physics in yuor answers.
No you are totally mistaken. An utter crash would have been better than one that lets one side play and one side not.
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Le Ming
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Posted - 2010.02.08 12:40:00 -
[138]
Originally by: CCP Atlas We are deploying a fix to Tranquility this week (probably tomorrow) which identical to the methods used that fateful night in keeping the node up.
Am i the only one who is worried about that line? Does that, in other words, mean, that the behaviour of the DG node will become the default behaviour? So you now get killed in every huge battle, while being disconnected? Sorry if i misread it, but this is how i interpret it.
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Zenst
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.02.08 13:31:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Manks Girl I would like to ask CCP this.
If they experienced such problems as "paying gamers" what would their responses be to petitions that only get answered by copying and pasting customer service robots writing off any bugs that occured during big fleet fights.
I am a cap pilot that logged off at 23:15 died at 00:45. If the node was kept alive intentionally, it seems that the safety protocols of emergency warping when logging was turned off.
Can this finally be answered and confirmed? or is it going to be spin doctored again?
CCP realise your responses are directly related to people not renewing their subscriptions again.
YES CCP CAN YOU ANSWEAR THAT PLEASE.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.02.08 14:00:00 -
[140]
you ppl act like timestamps were put there by the almighty himself. Did it occur to anyone that if the node was experiencing lag- maybe the killmail generation would be delayed? Or any of a thousand other things could be the problem.
You lost your ship because you undocked. HTFU. Its not a phrase for everyone but you.
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Hannibell
Genco Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 14:04:00 -
[141]
Originally by: CCP Atlas ....snip.... A bug was introduced in the Dominion expansion where database calls were not scheduled 'fairly' so low level management functionality such as the heartbeat would not have enough precedence over game functionality such as shooting a gun...snip....by this I mean that the situation would not have been better if the node would have died...
Wrong. Flat out Wrong. The situation would have been Fair, with all parties scrambling to relog in (perhaps repeatedly however ALL in the same situation)
CCPs actions directly led to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENZUx_7WSMY no fight, no battle, no engagement, but more than 100 pilots and ships dying MORE THAN AN HOUR, after they disconnected their clients from the game in disgust. (I can even provide receipts from my dinner out I finished prior to my ships destruction) and yet you claim 'lag affects all players equally in the interests of FAIRNESS we cannot... blah blah blah....
'cretins' doesnt even begin to describe your failure and fundamental lack of responsibility for the deaths of those ships... YES the system was lost, the battle long over, however without your meddling those ships would have fired logged off to fight another day.
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Skaarl
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Posted - 2010.02.08 14:37:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: LaVista Vista I think it's great to see that it is being worked on.
If CCP working on it is "great" what would be just "okay" - Not working on it but saying "we know it exists"? Would not doing or saying anything then be a "bad" thing?
But keep in mind: The tests to sort this out started only a month ago. Don't get ahead of yourself and expect them to come up with fix right now. This is serious business and there is no magic wand or switch they can use to resolve this...
/sarcasm
dude, they are working on walking in stations too....
seriously do you think there is a chance that this will be fixed anytime in the next year or so? in the meantime, using exploits is apparently not just OK with CCP, but encouraged by them. they will even take huge steps to guarantee that the node stays up instead of crashing so that you can take advantage of them longer!
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Skaarl
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Posted - 2010.02.08 14:43:00 -
[143]
Originally by: CCP Atlas Edited by: CCP Atlas on 08/02/2010 12:33:58 Thank you all for your comments. I'll just make a brief comment about the concerns people have about the node being kept alive for the 1600 person fight that is mentioned in the blog.
We are deploying a fix to Tranquility this week (probably tomorrow) which identical to the methods used that fateful night in keeping the node up. The problem was that under great strain nodes were unable to contact the database to 'heartbeat' which is a way for them to tell the cluster that they are alive and kicking. A bug was introduced in the Dominion expansion where database calls were not scheduled 'fairly' so low level management functionality such as the heartbeat would not have enough precedence over game functionality such as shooting a gun. This was jury-rigged live on Jan 28th and is making its way to a permanent fix this week. The fix that is being deployed is identical to the live-fix that was made on Jan 28th.
So, despite 'making people faint' comments this change was done in an extremely controlled manner and was not simply a case of 'keeping the node alive longer than it should have been' (by this I mean that the situation would not have been better if the node would have died). If the node would have been allowed to die the results would have been extremely bad for everyone as the solarsystem would not have been properly persisted, and it would have come up on a different node, where it would immediately die again because of the population count and that would continue to cascade as long as there were more than ~1000 people fighting there leading to horrible gameplay for those involved and a possible destabilization of certain parts of the cluster.
The cluster cannot gracefully handle a 1600 person fleet fight right now but bouncing between dying nodes every 2 minutes with the solar system in an indeterminate state is not really any kind of a solution.
We will be deploying fixes this week and the next and are continuing to closely monitor fights as they occur. Please bear with us a little while longer.
Edited for clarification
so instead you decided to make the situation extremely bad for only 1000 of the people instead of the full 1600? how about you fix the actual non-grid load issue, a crashing node is much better than not being able to play... while your opponent can. all you did was hand an unbelievably lopsided victory to one side, and from what i saw of your testing last week you were doing nothing to address that problem. so basically sov warfare is still he who is on grid first wins, just now he will win bigger.
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Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
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Posted - 2010.02.08 15:13:00 -
[144]
THIS:
Originally by: Batolemaeus Even if the cluster behaved like before dominion and even if you get fights up to 1.5k under control, your failure in game design will produce higher and higher numbers until the nodes break again.
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Dratic
Reaper Industries Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 15:35:00 -
[145]
Good to see things are being looked at to get back to pre dominion numbers in fights. What i'd like to know is if there are any updates on stuff like HPC infiband to improve preformance, and ultimately using more than one CPU core for a system. 1600 just isn't enough as the game continues to grow. The removal of aoe titan doomsday really didn't make your job easier as the hordes can now enter and not get wiped on jump in (barring the enormous camp, lag node crash stuff).
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Moriancumer
Amarr Hammer Of Light Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2010.02.08 19:36:00 -
[146]
Hello
I fail to understand your argument that by maintaining the server node instead of crashing it was a bad thing. If anything letting the node crash when we were able to save it would in fact have put those pilots whos commands were sent first not process at all and have everyone scrambling to log in, killing players who otherwise would not have died.
We will not be reimbursing any losses or interfering with the outcome of these battles. Server performance and load balancing are part of daily routine and will be commences if and when deemed necessary and have no impact on our current policy. The petition system is not a forum for debate, our stance on this matter is very clear and our decision on this matter is final.
Regards GM ****** EVE Online Customer Support Team
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teji
Ars ex Discordia SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.02.08 20:14:00 -
[147]
Originally by: CCP Atlas If the node would have been allowed to die the results would have been extremely bad for everyone
You post about not picking sides and then blatantly pick sides. Don't ever change.
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Skaarl
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Posted - 2010.02.08 20:59:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Moriancumer Hello
I fail to understand your argument that by maintaining the server node instead of crashing it was a bad thing. If anything letting the node crash when we were able to save it would in fact have put those pilots whos commands were sent first not process at all and have everyone scrambling to log in, killing players who otherwise would not have died.
We will not be reimbursing any losses or interfering with the outcome of these battles. Server performance and load balancing are part of daily routine and will be commences if and when deemed necessary and have no impact on our current policy. The petition system is not a forum for debate, our stance on this matter is very clear and our decision on this matter is final.
Regards GM ****** EVE Online Customer Support Team
i would post to the GM-ISD complaint department about his reply. the problem being, CCP did in fact directly interfere with the outcome of the battle. the fact that they try and hide this just means when it does come out it will be worse for them.
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Skaarl
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Posted - 2010.02.08 21:19:00 -
[149]
oh and atlas, as others have stated, the problem with your solution is it doesnt even address the problem, and your "explanation" of what was happening wasnt even close to being accurate. i would strongly reconsider putting any solution that you employed in D-GTMI on live, because all that i saw from being involved in it was utter failure as one side was allowed to exploit a bug and the other is still paying the consequences for your poor decisions.
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CCP Atlas
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Posted - 2010.02.08 21:45:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Dratic Good to see things are being looked at to get back to pre dominion numbers in fights. What i'd like to know is if there are any updates on stuff like HPC infiband to improve preformance, and ultimately using more than one CPU core for a system. 1600 just isn't enough as the game continues to grow. The removal of aoe titan doomsday really didn't make your job easier as the hordes can now enter and not get wiped on jump in (barring the enormous camp, lag node crash stuff).
Low level optimizations and ways to better spread the load is actually something that is being actively worked on by our Core Cluster group and hopefully we will be able to push the boundaries further so that Eve can support the fleet fights of the future.
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