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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2010.02.05 00:21:00 -
[1]
..Hey folks, if you follow this link, you will see that Scordite is the most profitable Empire ore to mine, followed by Plag. So, having looked at that site, I set off to buy some Plag mining crystal IIs as I do not have the skills to equip Scordite crystal IIs yet. Then I found out that Plag mining crystal IIs go for 300k each. So the question that I pose to the more mathematically inclined is, using that site and the following prices, which is the most profitable ore to mine in Empire?
Prices of the top profitable empire ore crystals:
Veld - 31k isk per,
Plag - 300k isk per,
Scordite - 100k isk per.
Thank you for your equations.
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Enthral
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Posted - 2010.02.05 00:44:00 -
[2]
As much as myself, and I'm sure most other miners, would love to do your research for you so we have more competition for the "good stuff"... I tend to just take everything within range and not worry too much about it.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2010.02.05 00:51:00 -
[3]
..Good plan, I guess while there is variety of ores in the 9+ belts in my system, instead of mining the one that makes the most money, I'll save my 5 second approach to it and just mine the closest one.
Anyone else?
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Xessej
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Posted - 2010.02.05 03:52:00 -
[4]
The lifespan of a t2 crystal is so long that the cost of mining crystals can be completely ignored in determining what to mine.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2010.02.05 03:56:00 -
[5]
..They run out pretty quick from my experience.
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DragonLink
Old School Hipsters
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Posted - 2010.02.05 05:14:00 -
[6]
IIRC the mean time to failure for T2 crystals is 2000 cycles. So, is the extra ore you get using T2 over T1 each cycle worth 50 isk in the case of scord? Or 150 isk in the case of plag?
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.02.05 16:57:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Cipher Jones on 05/02/2010 16:57:40 The most profitable thing to mine is all hisec ores and build ships with them. The reason is this:
Assuming you go for scordite, you have to have an endless supply to maintain that money over time ratio. This is not the case. You will have to switch belts frequently if you mine the most popular ores.
As far as the cost of the crystals is concerned, that is negligible. I ran for 2 hours last night mining plaq and i refined 400k mex and 800k pye. I took my crystals from .25 to .35 on the damage and i got about 8 million worth of ore. So before the crystal pops youll have pulled in 80 mil worth of ore. so were talking about 1% investment on the plaq crystals.
In the cost difference between scordite and plag, you'll lose that 270k price difference in the time spent looking for asteroids. -------------------------------------------------- I'm so Old I can remember when QQ was TT
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2010.02.05 20:09:00 -
[8]
*sigh* it's simple - calculate the isk/m¦ value of ores. Asume perfect refines with no tax. Any two ships that are setup similarly will mine 1 m¦ of Veldspar in exactly the same amount of time it will mine 1 m¦ of Arkonor (i.e. if you're using veld T1 crystals on veld roids you'll get the same m¦/min using ark T1 crystals against an ark roid). A good rule of tumb is to plug in current market value of minerals (or what you would sell them at) into a spreadsheet that then calculates how much each batch of ore works out to. Then use that to calculate how much each ore is worth per m¦. Even if your skills do not match a "perfect refines" scenario, it will show you which is most valuable for your current market conditions. Since most "less than perfect" parameters affect all ores equally (the only one that doesn't is the refining skill itself where you could theoretically get perfect refines on veld but not on ark - this goes away as your skills improve).
To use crystals or not is straightforward. They increase your m¦ per min compared to T1 crystals or compared to T1 strip miners - for a cost. It should be noted that due to the frequency of non-full cycle roids in high sec (especially compared to wormhole space roids) that the advantage of faster mining is better in non-high sec areas. Mining with or without crystals does not affect the end value of your minerals. What it is is an added cost to improve the SPEED you can mine the more valueable the ore per m¦ the better the crystal performance/cost is. (since degradation of crystals is a chance each cycle and the cycles are the same number of m¦ for all ores for any particular setup)
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2010.02.05 21:39:00 -
[9]
..^^ Wow dude I know using crystals > not using crystals. The price of plag crystals is 100x the price of veld crystals. I'm no math expert so that's why I posted this, looking for someone who could do the figures and maybe post a better ore/price chart when you figure in the price of crystals.
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Gaulin
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Posted - 2010.02.05 21:49:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Gaulin on 05/02/2010 21:53:01 T2 crystals usually last quite a while; although I have had some run out in as little as 4-5 hours. You really do not have to factor in the cost of the crystals; it is a very small amount <5% that you spend when traditionally using:
Revenue - Cost = Profit
If I can mine approx 100k m3 an hour on veld for example, it may generate 8-10mil depending on sale price. During the lifespan of a crystal you may be able to mine only 175k m3 with it; totaling around 400k m3 with 3 of them on a hulk. (4 Hours of Mining) They together may last over 1000k m3 having each crystal give out 300k+ m3. (10 Hours of Mining) Damage dealt to crystals after a spin are random if I remember correctly.
So taking some of that information into account at the very least:
400k m3 Veldspar = Refines into around 12-14 million Trit. 12 million Trit x 2.81 per Trit = 33,720,000 isk.
In that time you only spent approximately a whole 90k on the mining crystals.
33,720,000 - 90,000 = 33,630,000 in profit.
So to wrap things up:
Focus on getting the maximum m3 per spin you can acquire rather than worrying about crystal prices. That is what will really drive your profits; and further minimize costs.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.05 23:05:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/02/2010 23:06:55 _
T1 strip w/o crystal : base 540 m^3 ore/cycle T2 strip /T1 crystal : base 585 m^3 ore/cycle (+8.333%) T2 strip /T2 crystal : base 630 m^3 ore/cycle (+16.666%) At a bare minimum in any halfway-respecting mining op, you'll easily get over 1k m^3 ore/cycle per T1 stripminer, so let's take a bit above 1k as a baseline. If you have better yields, the calculations go even more in your favor. A T1 crystal will break on average after about 1000 cycles, a T2 crystal will break on average after 500 cycles.
So, on average, each cycle of T2 mining crystal will bring in AT LEAST 166.6 (let's make that a round-ish 170) m^3 of ore extra. At around 80 ISK/m^3 for the extracted ore, that's about 13.6k ISK extra (or over 6.8 mil extra across the average lifespan), for anywhere between 60 ISK and 600 ISK average extra cost per cycle depending on crystal cost (30k vs 300k ISK).
Or, if you prefer it the OTHER way around, 60 vs 600 ISK extra across 1166++ m^3 of ore, or anywhere between -0.05 ISK to -0.50 ISK / ore m^3 ISK value. In other words, freaking negligible. I seriously doubt you'll really feel the difference between mining, say, a 79.55 ISK/m^3 ore compared to a 79.95 ISK/m^3 ore (if both are listed as 80.00 ISK/m^3 in the value table).
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Kalnov
Gallente Problematique Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.05 23:45:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cipher Jones Edited by: Cipher Jones on 05/02/2010 16:57:40 The most profitable thing to mine is all hisec ores and build ships with them. The reason is this:
Minerals I mine are also free.
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Syds Sinclair
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Posted - 2010.02.06 00:12:00 -
[13]
..Thanks everyone for posting, and since Akita T posted in favor of the best mining crystals, that's what I'll do. What made this question strike me is the difference of paying 3m for 100 veld crystals, or 31m for 100 plag crystals.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.06 02:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Syds Sinclair 100 crystals
33 sets * 500 cycles/sec on average * aprox 133 seconds shortest Orca-boosted cycle / 3600 seconds in an hour = almost 610 hours of non-stop mining before you run of mining crystals... the earliest. At 8 hours/day and 5 days/week (a full-time job time), that's over 3 and a half MONTHS before you'll run out of crystals. I'd say 30 mil is peanuts for that.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Cerlestes
Caldari Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.06 11:37:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Cerlestes on 06/02/2010 11:37:40 This is a really good question, Syds. I'm going to implement such a calculator into my Ore Table somehow the next days, with, as usual, regularily updated prices :)
Regards, C
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Trondjana
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.07 10:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cerlestes Edited by: Cerlestes on 06/02/2010 11:37:40 This is a really good question, Syds. I'm going to implement such a calculator into my Ore Table somehow the next days, with, as usual, regularily updated prices :)
Regards, C
Dude, nice work!!!
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Eden Hart
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Posted - 2010.02.07 15:29:00 -
[17]
But. In low sec. 0.0 I am running 3 miners chewing through ark. I have a maxed skilled leadership pilot with mining implant and all the bells and whistles,who sits a rorqual.
I am looking at 2 million minimum for ark tech 2 mining crystals. a lot of places are selling them for up to 3 million each. Mineral prices on mega and zydrine have dropped considerably in the last few months.
I can get a bit extra by using tech 2 crystals, but I can build tech 1 ark mining crystals for about 4000 isk. that is vs 2.5 million for tech 2.
I have found, btw, that a set of 3 tech 2 ark/bistot crystals, will mine about 50 k of those ores before they burn up.
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ingenting
20th Legion Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.02.07 17:54:00 -
[18]
Linkage
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.02.07 22:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kalnov
Originally by: Cipher Jones Edited by: Cipher Jones on 05/02/2010 16:57:40 The most profitable thing to mine is all hisec ores and build ships with them. The reason is this:
Minerals I mine are also free.
At those prices I'll take one trillion of each mineral, please deliver to Jita. ______________________ Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. |
Kalnov
Gallente Problematique Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.08 07:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
Originally by: Kalnov
Originally by: Cipher Jones Edited by: Cipher Jones on 05/02/2010 16:57:40 The most profitable thing to mine is all hisec ores and build ships with them. The reason is this:
Minerals I mine are also free.
At those prices I'll take one trillion of each mineral, please deliver to Jita.
I think you missed the sarcasm.
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Zombika
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Posted - 2010.02.08 10:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kalnov
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
Originally by: Kalnov
Originally by: Cipher Jones Edited by: Cipher Jones on 05/02/2010 16:57:40 The most profitable thing to mine is all hisec ores and build ships with them. The reason is this:
Minerals I mine are also free.
At those prices I'll take one trillion of each mineral, please deliver to Jita.
I think you missed the sarcasm.
So did you sir
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kalnov
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
Originally by: Kalnov
Originally by: Cipher Jones Edited by: Cipher Jones on 05/02/2010 16:57:40 The most profitable thing to mine is all hisec ores and build ships with them. The reason is this:
Minerals I mine are also free.
At those prices I'll take one trillion of each mineral, please deliver to Jita.
I think you missed the sarcasm.
Nope, I'm pretty sure I picked up on it. ______________________ Agony Unleashed Home of the PvP University. |
Gunnanmon
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:46:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Gunnanmon on 08/02/2010 11:46:04 Edit - noticed "in empire" Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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