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Foraven
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.07 03:02:00 -
[1]
Today i learned that a properly fitted battleship could lock me down under 3 sec and insta-pop my speed warping industrial. My mistake i guess, i never ran into such in low sec before, that made me a bit too confident that warping fast could make me immune to gatecamp. Now i know why so many players avoid low sec, i'm not sure i would have survived that in a pve ship. I guess i had been lucky so far.
Now, is there a counter to such fast locking BS outside using a much smaller ship?
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.02.07 03:14:00 -
[2]
whenver you have 1b+ worth of goods your ship instawarps to the next gate before anyone can get a lock on you.
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Asuka Smith
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2010.02.07 03:24:00 -
[3]
Yes, an "improved cloaking device". Here is a neat trick I will share, step by step.
1. Jump into the hostile-camped system. 2. Hold your cloak and look for a celestial. 3. Hit "align" to that celestial 4. Hit your microwarpdrive ONCE, and then cancel it so you only get one cycle. 5. As your MWD cycle finishes, as in the MOMENT that it is finishing, you disable your cloak and hit warp. You will warp instantaneously.
Unless the enemy can get a line on your ship and decloak you before your MWD cycle finishes you will be unstoppable in low-sec.
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Foraven
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.07 03:39:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Psychotic Maniac whenver you have 1b+ worth of goods your ship instawarps to the next gate before anyone can get a lock on you.
I was doing just that, that did not work. He managed to lock me almost as soon as i left the jumpgate cloak. Must have been using autolock module with sensor boosters.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.07 04:23:00 -
[5]
Use the cloak trick mentioned above or a blockade runner (covert ops cloak) for low sec hauling. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.02.07 04:36:00 -
[6]
In most situations in empire, a Blockade Runner is essentially immune to capture at a gate camp. That being said, a well skilled and fitted tackler can still lock you. Especially if the tackler is switched on and fitted especially for that purpose. (looking at you Le Skunk) Such camps are dedicated to catching fast warping ships.
The ONLY way to avoid capture in a BR from a such a well skilled, dedicated, and equipped camp (there are not many) is to increase your agility so as to not need to cloak before warping.
How?
Mods: the ones that increase agility. I recommend nanofibers (avoid istabs)
Rigs: same as above.
Drugs: decrease signature so it takes longer to lock you (forgot the name)
Implants: Nomads (They are not just for Titans)
Hope this helps
Patri
I'll Roshambo you for that Titan |
James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.02.07 05:35:00 -
[7]
Your mistake was to bring a t1 industrial to lowsec. No matter how fast it can warp, it's still an industrial.
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Shade Millith
International House of PWNCakes Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2010.02.07 10:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Patri Andari That being said, a well skilled and fitted tackler can still lock you. Especially if the tackler is switched on and fitted especially for that purpose.
Incorrect.
If you know your latency well, you will be able to cloak before anything can lock you, 10x remote sensorboosted with res scripts intercepters included. --------------------------------------------
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Aka5ha
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.07 11:09:00 -
[9]
wtf... lemme interrupt you for one second here. But amarr has the best industrials of all time!
No really, turning on your MWD will increase your sig by what.. 100% or something crazy, thats why anyone even in a freighter can insta lock you. Instead use AB's. Lowsec is perfect for t1 indies, properly fit that is. Make sure you have a warpstab, afterburner, and a cloak. Fit rigs such as low friction nossle joints or the speed ones. Align time and speed when cloaked will save you.
On a small gate, when you cloak eveyone will circle the gate trying to uncloak you so its important to have speed mods. On a amature camp align time will get you outah there for the most part.
Problem is most professional camps, say black rabbits, will hast scripted HICS that can insta lock you.. Only cloaking will help here.
But if your hauling more than 1 mil in goods my advice is to train transport ships. My losses are at 2 bil atm, 50% is from badgers and bustards, use crane :)
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2010.02.07 11:28:00 -
[10]
You can always MWD back to gate when the gate camp is mostly of fast tacklers and not much damage dealing. Specially on blockade runners that rune like hell ( yes you can leave any hac except a vagabond behind)
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Ontaku Oroa
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.07 11:33:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Asuka Smith Yes, an "improved cloaking device". Here is a neat trick I will share, step by step.
1. Jump into the hostile-camped system. 2. Hold your cloak and look for a celestial. 3. Hit "align" to that celestial 4. Hit your microwarpdrive and cloak ONCE, and then cancel the micro warp drive it so you only get one cycle. 5. As your MWD cycle finishes, as in the MOMENT that it is finishing, you disable your cloak and hit warp. You will warp instantaneously.
Fixed. You have to hit both the cloak and mwd at the same time as you align, otherwise you'll get in trouble. When you hit align, you will decloak from the jump cloak effect, so you need to hit the cloak immediately. If you hit it too "out if sync" with the mwd, the mwd won't work and you're screwed if they know how to decloak.
Also, this requires a rigged T1 industrial to work, because of the power requirement of a 10MN mwd. I recommend also throwing in a Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joint rig and a couple of inertia stabilizers. They increase your sig radius, potentially decreasing the locking time, but with a dedicated inty that's pretty much a moot point. You get faster align time with instabs than with nanofibers.
Which means that the T1 industrial setup would end up costing you approx. 60 million ISK - which means if you got to blockade run, use a blockade runner instead of pimping out a ship which wasn't designed for the sort of thing you're trying to do. If I have to haul stuff through lowsec/0.0 using a T1 industrial, I usually just slap on a full rack of warp core stabilizers to get rid of solo roamers, and use scouts/intel for the route. And of course, I never haul something I can't afford to write off.
If you got some cash, the best blockade runners for high value, low volume goods are T3 cruisers configured for covops and bubble immunity. Coupled with the cloaking trick, you pretty much cannot be caught.
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Radcjk
Failed Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.02.07 14:24:00 -
[12]
Also, train up Navigation and I believe evasive maneuvering (or what ever other skill that is appropriate) as it increases your agility. Get these both to 5 and apply 2 or 3 inertia stabilizer IIs. This combined with a warp core stabilizer or two will usually get you through most camps in a cruiser or below. You'll have to ungimp and refit your ship when you get to where going, but it typically works well for travel.
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Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.02.07 18:57:00 -
[13]
*sigh* If you guys keep giving out all this sage info on how to beat camps inexpensively I may never get rid of all this Thukker LP I have stored up!
Patri
I'll Roshambo you for that Titan |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.08 08:40:00 -
[14]
Quote:
My mistake i guess, i never ran into such in low sec before, that made me a bit too confident that warping fast could make me immune to gatecamp.
You have been lucky you always met slowpokes till today. Never had 3 seconds to warp away myself, there's a reason why Blockade Runners exist.
Quote:
Incorrect.
If you know your latency well, you will be able to cloak before anything can lock you, 10x remote sensorboosted with res scripts intercepters included.
You seem too optimist. A corpie of mine had some otrageous connection with 30ms or so latency. With manual (ie no overview) locking and remote boosting he could lock anything with a latency above his, that is almost everything, from interceptors to MWD cloak people.
Quote:
No really, turning on your MWD will increase your sig by what.. 100% or something crazy, thats why anyone even in a freighter can insta lock you. Instead use AB's. Lowsec is perfect for t1 indies, properly fit that is
Quote:
But if your hauling more than 1 mil in goods my advice is to train transport ships. My losses are at 2 bil atm, 50% is from badgers and bustards, use crane :)
Ignore this, and you won't have 2B in losses.
Quote:
You can always MWD back to gate when the gate camp is mostly of fast tacklers and not much damage dealing
This works in 0.0 in case the opponents are noobs that don't send anyone bubbling the end you came from.
In low sec the fast tacklers would be killed by sentry guns, so you would expect something like infinipoint interdictor + a Drake or a "all gank" battleship. If you get webbed and / or infini-scrammed on your way to the gate, things could get dire even in a transport.
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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The marketmagicmaker
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:54:00 -
[15]
Ah, the old cloak/mwd trick.
Heres how it REALLY works (and yes yes, IM sure there will be five bazillion flames following along the lines of "no that doesent work"...try it first eh?)
1) set up your ship with a MWD, improved cloaking device II and inertia stabilisers (not nanofibres, they increase speed ergo increase time it takes to get to warp)and put mwd/cloak on hotkeys 2) Jump into scary losec system, fill pants at inty waiting on gate. 3) Align to target, hit cloak asap. 4) THEN activate MWD...you have up to four seconds AFTER activating your cloak to MWD 5) Deactivate MWD, it will still finish its cycle 6) Decloak a fraction of a second before the MWD cycle finishes and spam the warpto button....poof, instawarp
..if you have decent navigation skills you should instawarp, you may have to decloak a second or two before the cycle finishes to build up enough speed, the rig which increases MWD cycle time can help with this.
A couple of points about the mechanics of this
Warping occurs at 75% of your MAX speed...any mod which increases your speed will also increase the time it take to reach warp speed. you want mods which increase your acceleration but not speed. This is why inertial stabs = Good, nanofibres = bad
aha you say, but MWD increases both speed AND propulsion...well yes BUT when the MWD deactivates, it drops your max speed way back down, but the actual speed you built up during the MWD cycle remains...example (not based on any real fit, just to show how the numbers work..assume maxilolfailfait or somesuch)
your max speed is 100m/s and it takes ten seconds to reach 75m/s (your warpto speed)but this will be much longer with the speed reduction of a cloak you activate your mwd...your Max speed becomes 500m/s, lets assume you reach a mere 75m/s during your MWD cycle with the cloak on...you still need 400m/s to warp right? BUT if you deactivate your MWD, your MAX speed drops back down to 100m/s, and your already at that speed so deactivate cloak and vanish into the sunset.
Im not saying this makes you immune to that hyperboosted inty pilot junked up on 10 espressos and waiting specifically just to give you a bad day but these tactics will drastically increase your chances of getting away
And to reiterate...YOU ACTIVATE THE MICROWARPDRIVE AFTER THE CLOAK, I use this 30 times a day when im making a jita run. It works
Happy hauling.
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Sina Oraen
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Posted - 2010.02.08 12:30:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Sina Oraen on 08/02/2010 12:34:20 Edited by: Sina Oraen on 08/02/2010 12:31:14
Originally by: The marketmagicmaker Ah, the old cloak/mwd trick. .....
And to reiterate...YOU ACTIVATE THE MICROWARPDRIVE AFTER THE CLOAK, I use this 30 times a day when im making a jita run. It works
Happy hauling.
Tried just 4 Minutes ago .... Cloak ON = MWD OFFline :)
Well i dunno what masterskills needed to provide you function Modules after Cloacking, but the Method with cycle and Cloaking works.
Out of ! The Cycle this works. But NOT if the Cloak is activated. So you need to hit them Both the same time and than you could use the MWD and the Cloak together for ONE Cycle. Enough room will left between you and the scammers to get than to the Place you have to, to get the stuff you need too :)
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Virgil Travis
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.08 12:44:00 -
[17]
I've been able to activate an MWD within the first couple of seconds of activating a cloak, don't think it takes any master skills, just don't activate the MWD too late. It is about timing but you can still activate the MWD within a couple of seconds of the cloak starting to cycle.
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Ontaku Oroa
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.08 15:33:00 -
[18]
Just put the mwd and cloak on hotkeys, then you can tap them one after another without waiting. Your latency doesn't matter, the order you pressed the keys in doesn't get jumbled up just because you have high latency.
Also, I don't care how quick the inty is, he can't lock you if you combine this with the jump cloak effect. It takes some practice, but if you hit the align button, cloak and mwd in quick succession, you will not be targetable. Hotkeys are an absolute must with this, you cannot click the buttons with a mouse quickly enough.
The only possible problem could be intys with an autolocker module and extremely low latency. Haven't had a chance to test this out against one of those.
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Cess Poole
Black Claw Exploratory
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:35:00 -
[19]
Slows down locking. Of course you have to lock them to use it. Locking them and using it would negate any of the other suggestions.
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uinuja
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:36:00 -
[20]
Edited by: uinuja on 08/02/2010 17:37:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQpAhhO6L7Y
'nuff said
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Foraven
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.08 20:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: The marketmagicmaker
Warping occurs at 75% of your MAX speed...any mod which increases your speed will also increase the time it take to reach warp speed. you want mods which increase your acceleration but not speed. This is why inertial stabs = Good, nanofibres = bad
I guess this was my mistake when i fitted my ship. I noticed a while ago that inertial stabilizers made jumping faster, but not that using speed increasing modules made it worst. Something to ponder about.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.09 10:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Foraven
Originally by: The marketmagicmaker
Warping occurs at 75% of your MAX speed...any mod which increases your speed will also increase the time it take to reach warp speed. you want mods which increase your acceleration but not speed. This is why inertial stabs = Good, nanofibres = bad
I guess this was my mistake when i fitted my ship. I noticed a while ago that inertial stabilizers made jumping faster, but not that using speed increasing modules made it worst. Something to ponder about.
Put up an overdrive, time the effects on align time and you get the idea fast. - Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Ontaku Oroa
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.09 10:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cess Poole Slows down locking. Of course you have to lock them to use it. Locking them and using it would negate any of the other suggestions.
Uhuh, bad idea. Especially with an industrial. You want to get out of there real quick, not waste time on locking an inty. And by the time you're done locking them, you're dead anyway, because they insta-lock you and you need ten seconds to lock them.
Sensor dampeners are good for screwing over a sniper ship, not interceptors.
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Kitsune Girl
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Posted - 2010.02.09 16:25:00 -
[24]
This is why it is important to have someone fleet with you and scout for you. It doesn't hurt to have numbers by your side. In low sec, there are sentry guns at the gate, but most low-sec pirates would probably tank them long enough to pop your ship. Of course, I would recommend using a Skiff. That ship already has +2 warp points by default. That, along with two WCS modules, and you're set for hauling some equipment little by little. But when you haul little by little, don't do it all in one day. Do it over a course of a week or so and at irregular intervals. And if you can, try to figure out the sleep patterns of the people at local. Know thy enemy.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2010.02.10 01:23:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ontaku Oroa Fixed. You have to hit both the cloak and mwd at the same time as you align, otherwise you'll get in trouble. When you hit align, you will decloak from the jump cloak effect, so you need to hit the cloak immediately. If you hit it too "out if sync" with the mwd, the mwd won't work and you're screwed if they know how to decloak.
The timing is a lot more relaxed than you think. Align. Cloak. MWD burst. Do those in that order, and within a second of each other, and you're fine. The critical part is when the MWD cycle finishes. At soon as it does, de-cloak and warp. Do not wait for the graphics effects, or anything else. When you see the MWD cycle end, de-cloak and warp that instant.
-- He said "The President is near."
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2010.02.10 01:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ontaku Oroa The only possible problem could be intys with an autolocker module and extremely low latency.
Not a problem at all. The autolocker module only returns locks automatically. It is not smart enough to automatically lock war targets or anything else. It only locks those who lock you.
-- He said "The President is near."
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Ontaku Oroa
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.10 11:15:00 -
[27]
So... what's the difference between the autolocker module and the autolock feature you can enable in your settings? Nah I think the module locks whatever comes up on your overview. Can't be sure since I never wasted a slot on one, but it makes sense, otherwise its the most ridiculous module in existence.
As for activating the cloak and mwd in quick succession, yes, you have more time than "immediately", but if you get lagged a bit you might end up getting blown up. If you send all commands (align, cloak, mwd) to the server practically together, chances are that even if you lag, all three will be dropped on the server together.
Unless you're in a very laggy situation, like when two factions are duking it out with more than 1500 ships in system, but then again, if that is so what the hell are you doing in an industrial in the middle of a battlefield (not to mention that this trick, obviously, doesn't work if the gate is bubbled).
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Ancy Denaries
The Confederate Navy
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Posted - 2010.02.10 12:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cess Poole Slows down locking. Of course you have to lock them to use it. Locking them and using it would negate any of the other suggestions.
Please explain to me how an SD will help when the inty will lock you in 2 seconds and you will lock him in 30.
However, since inties are not too common in low sec due to gate guns, we instead picture a sensorboosted BC. He locks you in 3-4 seconds, and you lock him in 10-12. STILL doesn't help. ---- The Demigodess with a Conscience - An EVE IC Blog
Originally by: CCP Dropbear rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.02.10 19:02:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Pater Peccavi on 10/02/2010 19:02:41
Originally by: The marketmagicmaker Warping occurs at 75% of your MAX speed...any mod which increases your speed will also increase the time it take to reach warp speed. you want mods which increase your acceleration but not speed. This is why inertial stabs = Good, nanofibres = bad
If I've read this correctly, it's false. Alignment time doesn't care about your max speed, it simply describes how long it take you to get from 0% to 100% (or 75%, or whatever) speed. Increasing max speed doesn't matter, you'll accelerate slightly faster but your time to warp will be the same. Thus, if the above statement is supposed to mean "Nanofibers provide no benefit or even worse a detriment to align time" then that is false (just tested on TQ to make sure my logic matches EVE logic, using Overdrives which provide no agility benefit). However, if the above statement is supposed to mean "Nanofibers are worse than Istabs because Istabs have a greater impact on agility," then that isn't patently false but is arguable, since Istabs have the disadvantage of increasing your sig radius (making others take less time to lock you). _________ My name is Pater! |
lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.02.10 19:47:00 -
[30]
Edited by: lollerwaffle on 10/02/2010 19:48:19
Originally by: Ontaku Oroa Nah I think the module locks whatever comes up on your overview. Can't be sure since I never wasted a slot on one, but it makes sense, otherwise its the most ridiculous module in existence.
Bit off topic but I had varying results when I fitted an autotargeting module to my drake once. The one that happened most was it locking back onto targets that had already locked me (similar to having auto lock back turned on in settings), although there were a couple of times the module locked onto a rat while I was trying to lock a cruiser and had my points etc hot :( However it's far from useless. +2 to max lockable targets is pretty damn nice, heh. Drake can lock a max of 8, module brings that to 10. I have multitasking 3 (10 targets lockable) from trying to get the core competency elite cert, go figure
e: removal of excessive smilies
Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think?
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
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