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Latisa Milo
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:18:00 -
[1]
This post assumes a couple of things: 1)That AAA isnÆt really interested in wiping CVA from the map if for no other reasons because the cost of those systems would be enormous and the neighbor you know and gives you fights is better than the neighbor who might move in and try to wipe you out next year. 2) Also that the Leadership of CVA/AAA truly donÆt hold any nasty grudges, This is a game after all and if itÆs not fun, most of the time (as opposed to bitter and mean) that is why people Emo-quit. Given those conditions the following scenario allows nicely for the end of hostilities, some saving of face and a little eating of crow all in one neat package. (and is RP and RL authentic to boot!!)
In medieval and ancient times when a conquering army didnÆt have the manpower or time to prosecute a proper æscorched earthÆ method of conquering, they simply co-opted their newly defeated foes into their army and moved on. (the ancient armies of Persia and Many Biblical armies fought semi-willingly under one king) Leaving a Garrison in a strategic town and taking as many of the fighting fit men as possible and forming them into their own units so that language would not be a barrier was a very efficient way of making you stronger while making all your enemies weaker. This historic example has no modern equivalent; (but having numerous European armies vs the French at Waterloo and the whole Axis/Allies of WW1 and 2 comes close) but those armies were side by side to defeat a common foe.
I suggest the following:
>CVA needs to renounce any further sov claims on AAA space for at least the remainder of 2010.
>CVA will form a separate corp in a Mercenary fashion (basically all PVP, no missioners, no industry) Said corp will be BLUE to AAA till 1/1/11 and will fight when and where AAA tells them to under AAA FCÆs as often as AAA needs them (unless target system is currently owned by providence holders)
>AAA and CVA will need to determine the æminimumÆ composition for this æconscriptÆ Fleet but off-hand IÆd suggest no less than 200BS/35Dreads/20carriers/5moms/1titan + 50 various support vessels (tacklers, JF, logistics, et al) It needs to be of sufficient size and composition to fight on its own if needed
>AAA agrees to withdraw from DG and 9UY (if it falls)by 1/1/11 and turn them over peacefully to CVA
Why would these alliances do this?
AAA gains another fleet at its command, (never a bad thing) gets to keep its stable, productive and usually non-aggressive neighbor to the north thus keeping AAA territory more secure.
CVA gets it systems back, and gains some much needed PVP skillz for any pilot in the Merc corp. The corp does not need to be disbanded next year but can continue to fight in causes they find æworthyÆ of Amarr might. (the little fiasco over chribbaÆs towers comes to mind)
All in all even if this isnÆt what happens, it beats CVA surrendering, or AAA just being merciful, both sides gain and both sides lose, because in this game stagnation IS death.
Keep in mind none of this prevents roving gangs or some 3rd party from interfering, but isnÆt that about the status quo?
TL:DR CVA forms a fleet to operate under AAA command for 1 yr, at the end of year CVA gains back better pilots and their lost systems. AAA gains free use of a mixed fleet for 1 year. RP in eve is saved and the drama llama re: the CVA/AAA war goes on vacation for a year
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Fifinella
Caldari Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:21:00 -
[2]
So if CVA didn't agree to a ceasefire under terms that amounted to "nice try, you wacky kids, but now behave yourselves in the future, or next time we won't give you your ball back", you seriously think they'll consider becoming, hmm let me think up a word here, oh yes, slaves to the aAa?
Also, who are these Biblical people? They live somewhere near Providence?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.08 11:22:00 -
[3]
AAA offered to give D-G back if holders wouldnt attack AAA space again. That offer was declined.
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Dsan89
Minmatar Smegnet Corp
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Posted - 2010.02.08 12:20:00 -
[4]
sorry op, but to be frank, CVA can barely uphold the demands you suggest. 200 Battleships ? have you seen a holders CTA fleet ? also why would they agree to this tricky advanced "contract" of slavery now, when only a few weeks ago they could have gotten D-G back for a NAP with -A- that they already had before ?
CVA want to fight apparently, so they must have a plan of some sorts or maybe they are ready to accept whatever fate awaits now. Personally I blame Aralis, he could have brought back good old providence to what it always has been but now he is going to ruin it
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Stratio
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.08 12:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Stratio on 08/02/2010 12:32:40
Quote: I suggest the following:
>CVA needs to renounce any further sov claims on AAA space
That is .-A-.'s only demand!
Also ... Waterloo ? Some sort of toilet? _____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
Reprimander
Failswarm
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Posted - 2010.02.08 13:07:00 -
[6]
The State War Academy has spoken!
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.08 13:23:00 -
[7]
Moved from Intergalactic Summit. Too much ooc references for that forum area.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Lightzy
Cult of the Spinning Meat
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Posted - 2010.02.08 13:41:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lightzy on 08/02/2010 13:41:28 CVA would never bend over and say "sure, we take commands from you and fight for you, you terrorism supporting people" It would be a humiliation for them
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Ontaku Oroa
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.08 15:40:00 -
[9]
There's also an added problem that the Ushra'Khan would shoot the slaver mercenary ships on sight, so joint fleet ops might be, eh, difficult to manage.
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Herzoga
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Posted - 2010.02.08 17:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Latisa Milo All in all even if this isnÆt what happens, it beats CVA surrendering, or AAA just being merciful, both sides gain and both sides lose, because in this game stagnation IS death.
CVA have been stagnating in Providence for the past 4 years or more. Maybe its time to just let them die?
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:25:00 -
[11]
CVA has been sitting in providence for what 5 years more or less. For vast majority of time that space has been almost completely useless so their being there has probably been financed mostly from empire activities (like using that huge T2 blueprint collection they have). I'd think they are horribly bored of it by now, and current political situation has no room for maneuvering.
They can¦t surrender, they can¦t ally themselves with NBSI people but I doubt they can die either unless leadership gets the "bitter vet" disease. So at worst you'll see them hanging around Derelik and Curse this time next year.
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Jones Bones
Final Agony
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Posted - 2010.02.08 18:50:00 -
[12]
Burn Providence, burn.
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Herzoga
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Posted - 2010.02.08 21:00:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Herzoga on 08/02/2010 20:59:57
Originally by: Juliette DuBois They can¦t surrender, they can¦t ally themselves with NBSI people but I doubt they can die either unless leadership gets the "bitter vet" disease. So at worst you'll see them hanging around Derelik and Curse this time next year.
Judging by their comments in numerous threads relating to recent server conditions and the D-GT debacle in particular, their leadership is already feeling pretty bitter about the game right now.
(Not that I can blame them)
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Therasumfin Downdar
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Latisa Milo
CVA forms a fleet to operate under AAA command for 1 yr, at the end of year CVA gains back better pilots and their lost systems. AAA gains free use of a mixed fleet for 1 year. RP in eve is saved and the drama llama re: the CVA/AAA war goes on vacation for a year
Evidently you haven't read up on what's been going on.
AAA has made the demands of: 1) Do not attack our sov again
AAA will do the following if the demand is accepted 1) Return D-G (And I would reckon other taken systems) 2) If wanted, AAA has systems in Catch region it doesn't want, and is willing to give them to CVA/Prov
However, due to CVA's roleplay background, CVA refused as accepting would be a sign of "weakness". At least one of the holders is unhappy with this decision. |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ontaku Oroa There's also an added problem that the Ushra'Khan would shoot the slaver mercenary ships on sight, so joint fleet ops might be, eh, difficult to manage.
<3 UK
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Sulg
Skies Tis Moiras Amici Noctis
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Posted - 2010.02.09 01:35:00 -
[16]
This is either the ultimate fail troll or you're just very out of touch with reality. Er, as close as you can get to that in 0.0 politics.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Warp speed is not fast enough. We must go straight to...ludicrous speed! |
Latisa Milo
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.02.09 02:58:00 -
[17]
A couple of points here obviously need addressing,
(BTW, I make these points as a historian who enjoys Eve, I am in 0.0 space quite often, inc Prov, but my alliance holds no space, so if these comments seem naive, they might well be)
Slaves to AAA would not be the term but an army/fleet that serves the victor of a devastating battle would be seen as a peace offering; the latest example would be units in Afghanistan/Iraq that were bitter enemies are forced to combine to hold the peace. (although a similar agreement in Nepal seems about to fail)
I can see that the RP of UK and CVA could pose some serious issues, but history is rife with examples of enemies working side by side for various reasons; the serious RP folks should pick a few and use those as examples, including some that included devastating treachery. (watch æbraveheartÆ for HollywoodÆs version)
If CVA wants to fight to prove their strength, then so be it, it might be good for them to risk it all in order to keep it all, but as in all things there are many paths to most goals, including AAA losing interest, and simply moving on to help their allies (if that hasnÆt already happened)
Strictly speaking AAAÆs offer on the face of it would confirm the general impression that Providence is industry/carebear heaven and that they canÆt fight to save their space.
I see it differently, they have shown themselves to be good stewards of the area (thus AAA helping when they lost sov for a day). ANYONE not red to the holders can go there and do business, and they build stations like most alliances drop POSÆs. That speaks volumes about how they play the game and are generally respected for it. That they might not have the PVP chops to hold off a major fleet blob only shows that they have a different goal, on the RP spreading of Amarr power, and that entails holding and keeping the space they are in and developing it as the empires have, stressing major combat ops to take space isnÆt in their manifest afaik.
As stated in the title this is just a suggestion to get folks thinking about other options and solutions that might not otherwise occur to them since CVA is a rather unique creature now (I believe the others died out awhile back). If CVA needs to die to prove they will be missed then so be it, AAA has thrown out an olive branch, I would recommend taking it, but make it useful, get your PVP skillz back and make sure if this happens again it wonÆt be easy.
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Biscuit0
GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.02.09 08:50:00 -
[18]
AAA have never seen anything through to completion. CVA / Providence is fine. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.09 10:09:00 -
[19]
I think it's going to be fine if CVA gets kicked back in hi sec for a while. It happened to other alliances and that made them stronger, call it "spring cleaning".
CVA should reconsider about those who they allowed in: a bunch of freeloaders, ready to flee with no honor at the first difficulty, with allies like them, I'd prefer to be surrounded by enemies.
Ah yes, the "but these 'bears were here to enjoy that quasi-hi sec and not to PvP" excuse...
... well, that's NRDS 0.0 but still it's 0.0: you fight for what you have or lose it and GTFO. Seems a bunch of sissies chose for the latter, and they directly chose the GTFO part of that latter choice.
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Ontaku Oroa
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.09 10:47:00 -
[20]
And besides, since both CVA and U'K are roleplay alliances, they really couldn't work together, historical examples aside. We're talking here about a fundamental difference, not the usual "our tribe, their tribe" stuff. They are slavers, we're freedom fighters. There really is no way we could ever work together.
And since we're proven allies of -A- and they have proven they cannot be trusted even as "casual enemies", who do you think would get priority?
One other thing - it is very difficult to destroy roleplay alliances. I think CVA have gotten too bloated for their own good, they need some slimming. Getting wiped off the map might actually give them some new vigour. You assume that pushing CVA out of Providence will somehow destroy them and remove RP content from the game; also remember that they are not the only roleplay alliance in EvE.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.09 12:52:00 -
[21]
Quote:
And besides, since both CVA and U'K are roleplay alliances, they really couldn't work together, historical examples aside. We're talking here about a fundamental difference, not the usual "our tribe, their tribe" stuff. They are slavers, we're freedom fighters. There really is no way we could ever work together.
It will sound silly but it's just recently that I learned that there was another "RP" and NRDS alliance in EvE (I don't play since a lot though). Since I had to stop being in a PvP corp (RL time constraints issues) I pondered returning in 0.0 in a more slack life.
Unexpected boon, it looks like another NRDS alliance exists and it's even Minmatar friendly (plus they might not have flagged me as KOS like CVA did). For a "Brutor Slave Child" it has its effect.
Where can someone find more info about your alliance and things? Your web site does not really say a lot.
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Ontaku Oroa
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.09 13:08:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Ontaku Oroa on 09/02/2010 13:09:40
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Where can someone find more info about your alliance and things? Your web site does not really say a lot.
Well, I assume you have perused the http://www.ushrakhan.com site, I also recommend posting any questions on the public forum, there's lots of people who will be glad to clarify things for you.
In short, Ushra'Khan is a roleplay alliance with a PvP centric mode of operations. That is not to say that we do not welcome industrialists or people who can help the cause by other means than venting slaver ships into space, of course! If you're an industrialist, you get some nice opportunities to develop your business (I'm not a builder so I know little about this, but I suppose 0.0 is better for heavy industry than empire space). Also, some corps are less RP-centric, some more, you'd have to ask on the forums to see which one would fit you best. If you fly with us, you can expect a lot of opportunity to participate in both skirmish and fleet warfare (especially with the war in Providence gearing up to speed) and the added bonus is that, as a roleplay alliance, we always have that extra motivation behind all we do. If you're an industrialist, you get some nice opportunities to develop your business (I'm not a builder so I know little about this, but I suppose 0.0 is better for heavy industry than empire space). Also, some corps are less RP-centric, some more, you'd have to ask on the forums to see which one would fit you best.
In fact I am often surprised there aren't more RP alliances out there. Somehow people assume that RP=incompetent geeks (forgetting that only "geeks" play MMO's as much as most of us do), not realizing that it adds so much content to gameplay its like a difference between high-sec mining and 0.0 life.
And now back to the issue at hand, namely how putting CVA, -A- and U'K in the same fleet would result in an EvE's version of the Three Stooges. Although one stooge would get hit on the head more often than the other two.
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