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Bobo Cindekela
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 07:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have planned to set up a research POS, I have a large tower sitting around and a dozen mobile labs. But I cant decide if i should buy ~300-600m worth of defensive batteries and spend time anchoring them, and strip the labs if a dec rolls in, and try to defend the stick (I have 3 accounts each with gunners at IV)
or if I should just strip the tower down and keep an alternate corp rolling with standings from some of my other characters, and muddy up my corp histories rolling research alts from corp to corp piddling away the wardec fees of any enemy.
I am not really happy of losing a week of 12 labs time vs someone else 50m war fee, hence the lack of interest in defending vs. stripping the whole tower and rolling everyone to another corp and hoping the enemy gets fed up of war fees that yield no target.
plus it is alot easier to strip 12 labs and 1 stick down than setting up 80 batteries and trying to defend and eventually losing 600-900m+ worth of POS and batteries to a determined aggressor
thoughts? |
Vqu
NSIDE Finance Of Sound Mind
1
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Posted - 2012.06.28 10:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
I wouldn't even consider putting up a POS without some kind of defense. Sure there might have been a argument for not doing in back when the extra modules affected the monthly fuel cost, but now is a POS without defense either A) Owner being lazy or B) The owner did not go all in with his investment.
If you can afford a Large control tower and 12 mobile labs, plus the BPO's to keep all those jobs active, should you have the necessary ISK to cover the guns. Also keep in mind that the prices for POS modules and especially guns tend to be very stable. You probably won't lose anything on the investment, beside the income you could have gotten with the ISK invested elsewhere.
So why attract the unnecessary extra attention?
- Vqu NSIDE Finance [EPAX] is a Science and Industry Corporation. We specialities in research-áof -áBPO's and Ship Manufacturing.
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Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.06.28 13:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Personally I wouldn't bother actively defending it. The most I would do is turn it into a dickstar with lots of hardeners, ECM and stuff like that. They won't have caps in high sec which is a plus. I don't have a single gun on mine :). Thing is I'm not that fussed about getting war decced. I just take the POS down and go and do something else.
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Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
160
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Posted - 2012.06.28 15:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Always have a backup in an alt corp: if a large alliance dec's you, just activate the D!ckStar and move operations to the alt corp elsewhere. If you're outnumbered 1000 to 1, make some popcorn and watch the show, heckling in Local. After the fireworks you continue business as normal with the alt as the primary in the new corp. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
791
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Posted - 2012.06.28 15:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hisec POS removal is rare. You have to really make someone mad at you, or have a very poorly defended POS.
My hisec POS |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
134
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Posted - 2012.06.28 15:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
are you actually under a war dec? High sec POS bashing is not near as common as many think it is.
A high sec POS with several labs anchored in a system with out a station is a very juicy target. They know the BPO's will be in there if they drop it. However anchoring in a system with a station is much different. rule of thumb is you have offices in station and keep BPO's there and you can remote research them at the POS with no risk of losing the BPO's. However even if you do not rent an office at the local station most POS bashers will just assume you do and not bother checking. still making it much safer than a system without a station.
If you follow this and do not draw attention to your corp as a target you have very little chance of a war dec. I have had a high sec research POS up for over a year and not received a single war dec. I have not even bothered with deffenses aside from a few off-line shield hardeners to increase EHP.
A large POS will take 5-6 max DPS battleships several hours to take down. There is no dreads in high sec. this is not a fun activity and is mostly done for either revenge or a high potential of valuable loot.
There are plenty of systems around with empty moons and cheap station rentals. I found one in high sec with only 10,000 isk a month rental. considering most I checked wanted +30,000,000 isk per month I thought this was a jackpot.
You may be making this far more difficult and complicated than it needs to be. If your BPO's are safe the POS is not a heavy loss even if you do get war deced as if done right it should be making you billions per month. Even a small caldari POS can run 3 labs, more than enough for most one man corps, even with several accounts worth of alts. |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
57
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Posted - 2012.06.28 16:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'd defend it. Hi sec POS takedowns are rare, and with three gunners and a proper setup it's practically free kills on the aggressors. |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2012.06.28 17:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:are you actually under a war dec? High sec POS bashing is not near as common as many think it is.
A high sec POS with several labs anchored in a system with out a station is a very juicy target.
Nope. It isn't. If it's used for invention, which many are, the BPOs will only ever be crappy T1's on copy.
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Bobo Cindekela
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 17:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thanks everyone for replies, A lot of useful info |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
135
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Posted - 2012.06.28 20:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Eternal Error wrote:I'd defend it. Hi sec POS takedowns are rare, and with three gunners and a proper setup it's practically free kills on the aggressors. Bugsy VanHalen wrote: A large POS will take 5-6 max DPS battleships several hours to take down. There is no dreads in high sec. this is not a fun activity and is mostly done for either revenge or a high potential of valuable loot.
While online (bubble up)? Not even close. Even if it's undefended and only has a few hardeners up, it would take more like 10-15 max DPS battleships several hours. I was thinking like 6 hours minimum with 5-6 T3 battleships with 8x T2 guns and full damage mods but yeah if it has hardeners up it takes even longer.
My point was it is not a fun activity and very few corps will go to the trouble of getting 20-30 BS together to take down a POS quickly unless you have done something to **** them off.
and POSes have the same EHP whether the bubble is up or down. It is just a forcefield and has nothing to do with the shields.Even offline POSes have full shield just no bubble. The only drop from online to offline in EHP is hardeners going offline. |
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
135
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Posted - 2012.06.28 20:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Bugsy VanHalen wrote:are you actually under a war dec? High sec POS bashing is not near as common as many think it is.
A high sec POS with several labs anchored in a system with out a station is a very juicy target. Nope. It isn't. If it's used for invention, which many are, the BPOs will only ever be crappy T1's on copy. This can be true, however. Invention slots are easy to find in stations. at least in my experience. copy slots and ME/PE slots are the hard ones to find that most high sec research POSes are used for. My point was a POS in a system with a station has much less chance to get targeted for its potential loot than a POS in a system without a station. Unless you do something to make yourself a target. |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
59
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Posted - 2012.06.28 20:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
and POSes have the same EHP whether the bubble is up or down. It is just a forcefield and has nothing to do with the shields.Even offline POSes have full shield just no bubble. The only drop from online to offline in EHP is hardeners going offline.
I referenced the bubble due to short vs. long range weapons (although this doesn't really affect caldari or amarr).
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Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
59
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Posted - 2012.06.29 00:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Eternal Error wrote:I'd defend it. Hi sec POS takedowns are rare, and with three gunners and a proper setup it's practically free kills on the aggressors. Bugsy VanHalen wrote: A large POS will take 5-6 max DPS battleships several hours to take down. There is no dreads in high sec. this is not a fun activity and is mostly done for either revenge or a high potential of valuable loot.
While online (bubble up)? Not even close. Even if it's undefended and only has a few hardeners up, it would take more like 10-15 max DPS battleships several hours. I was thinking like 6 hours minimum with 5-6 T3 battleships with 8x T2 guns and full damage mods but yeah if it has hardeners up it takes even longer. My point was it is not a fun activity and very few corps will go to the trouble of getting 20-30 BS together to take down a POS quickly unless you have done something to **** them off. and POSes have the same EHP whether the bubble is up or down. It is just a forcefield and has nothing to do with the shields.Even offline POSes have full shield just no bubble. The only drop from online to offline in EHP is hardeners going offline.
Important to note that an Offline POS does not go into RF. It just dies. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Debiru
Flashpoint Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
15
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Posted - 2012.06.29 19:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ironically, the best defense is making your possible opponents think you won't be there in the morning. A POS with no defenses at all tells pvp'ers that the moment they wardec you, you'll be gone and moved within 24 hours. Then they don't bother deccing and look for juicier targets. It's actually quite effective. Choosing a low-population/traffic system also helps. Don't worry if it's far away from a market hub (especially if you aren't an industry POS). The extra time spent shipping is worth the time saved from dealing with wardecs.
Of course, keeping a stockpile of defense modules on a nearby station for rapid conversion to deathstar is always fun too. They wardec a defenseless POS, come back next day and find a deathstar. |
GreenSeed
66
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Posted - 2012.06.29 21:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
a large tower needs at least 15+ undisturbed, dps fitted battleships to die in a reasonable time, as soon as you throw in logistics + a small anti-frig wing to defend the big ships against bombers you realize that they need a bare minimum of 25 ppl to go for a large pos and that will still take up to 4 hours of their time... and no, a pos dps fit does NOT use autocannons. snipe fits only, so dps is low. And since the attackers will be in danger they canGÇÖt use anything shiny like an arty machariel.
Now you throw in 2 pos gunners on your side, one doing ewar on the logistics and a second one controlling 2 stasis + artys... that means instead of 25 they need 35 people. just because of those 2 gunners. Add in a small ragtag merc fleet that can cost you 500millon for the day and you can actually wreck their siegue in 5 minutes.
also, if you offline EVERYTHING but hardeners so you get +75% resists against all, and you fill all your pg/cpu with ECM towers, they will need something like an absurd 10x more time to kill the pos, and you donGÇÖt even need to have pos gunners. their dps will be so crippled that the passive regen on the pos shields will often offset their dps. And IGÇÖm not sure if you still can neutral rep a tower, afaik you used to be able to, if its still doable, then its pretty demoralizing seeing an AFK osprey repping 1 hour worth of bashing in 5 minutes.
Do you have an idea of just how much you have to **** someone off so they would go through all the trouble of actually killing a highsec pos?
Only offline poses are in trouble in highsec.
Personally, i think CCP should take the t3 bcs and turn them into BC sized "destroyers". Making destroyers their own ship class and add a third size dessie, battleship sized. to aid in Structure grinds. Something like a mini dread that you can take into wormholes/highsec and clear the place.
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
138
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Posted - 2012.07.04 15:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
absolutely,
High sec POSes are very safe due to the points made above. They are just to much work to take down with little to no return. Players do not do it for fun as it is very boring and time consuming. It is far to much work for most grievers to bother with. Unless it is retaliation for something some in your corp/alliance has done you have very little chance of getting a POS taken down in High sec. Only time I have seen an unprovoked POS bash in high sec is when someone wants the moon. And even then it is ussually a dead POS belonging to an inactive corp.
Even in LOW sec you can be fairly safe. POS bashing in LOW sec is much easier as you can use dreads but most pirate corps who have dreads are not willing to risk them attacking an unknown target just for fun. In low sec POSes are mostly killed for two reasons. A group is trying to control the area and does not want any unfriendly POSes around. Or the more likely reason is they want the moon it is anchored at since any low sec moon below 0.4 sec can be mined.
If you are in a backwater system, and either completely avoid conflict with the other locals or even attempt to establish friendly relations with them, and do not anchor at a valuable moon you will generally be left alone. This is not near as safe as high sec but still much safer than most realize. NPC null sec is very similar but with a little higher requirement to have friendly relations with the locals.
Don't anchor what you can not afford to lose. But if you can afford a large POS without breaking the bank, and want to anchor in LOW or NPC 0.0 then go for it. It is not as dangerous as many will tell you it is. Just do your research and find the right system. Dropping it in a random system without doing the leg work will maximize your risk. But if you are smart you can do very well.
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Nikodiemus
Jokulhlaup
36
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Posted - 2012.07.04 19:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Eternal Error wrote:I'd defend it. Hi sec POS takedowns are rare, and with three gunners and a proper setup it's practically free kills on the aggressors. Bugsy VanHalen wrote: A large POS will take 5-6 max DPS battleships several hours to take down. There is no dreads in high sec. this is not a fun activity and is mostly done for either revenge or a high potential of valuable loot.
While online (bubble up)? Not even close. Even if it's undefended and only has a few hardeners up, it would take more like 10-15 max DPS battleships several hours. I was thinking like 6 hours minimum with 5-6 T3 battleships with 8x T2 guns and full damage mods but yeah if it has hardeners up it takes even longer. My point was it is not a fun activity and very few corps will go to the trouble of getting 20-30 BS together to take down a POS quickly unless you have done something to **** them off. and POSes have the same EHP whether the bubble is up or down. It is just a forcefield and has nothing to do with the shields.Even offline POSes have full shield just no bubble. The only drop from online to offline in EHP is hardeners going offline.
20-30 BS cannot take down a POS quickly by any means. |
Diablo Ex
Red-Five
52
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Posted - 2012.07.05 08:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
The last time I was involved in a high sec POS bash, it was simply to remove a dead tower from a moon we were wishing to occupy. The owning corp was closed and it was just sitting there inert. We paid the wardec fee and made a party of it. It took a little over 5 hrs to drop with Torp Ravens and SB's to drop the medium "vanilla" tower. If it wasn't sitting on "prime real estate" we wouldn't have bothered.
PRO SYNERGY - We salvage and process the loot, and pay YOU for it. Proven methodology, weekly payout, great attitude. - join game channel "Pro Synergy" for details. http://sites.google.com/site/prospersynergy/ |
dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
24
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Posted - 2012.07.05 11:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
I have been running a hi-sec pos with a few friends close to a year now, and we was forced to take it down one time, so i would not consider wardec a problem. If you are planning on doing something like capital me/pe research, being forced to take it down is going to hurt a lot more then if you just to small ship/mod T2 invention.
With the recent POS changes the tower always use the same amount of fuel, and it's a lot faster to anchor structures. So any unused power/cpu can be used for defense, with no added expense to fuel. You can fit a lot of labs on a large tower, unless you know you can max out all lines, you can use some resources for defense if it makes you feel safer.
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Riyal
Chode Extravaganza
40
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Posted - 2012.07.05 12:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Diablo Ex wrote:The last time I was involved in a high sec POS bash, it was simply to remove a dead tower from a moon we were wishing to occupy. The owning corp was closed and it was just sitting there inert. We paid the wardec fee and made a party of it. It took a little over 5 hrs to drop with Torp Ravens and SB's to drop the medium "vanilla" tower. If it wasn't sitting on "prime real estate" we wouldn't have bothered.
Interesting, can you remember the number of pilots involved in that? |
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Diablo Ex
Red-Five
53
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Posted - 2012.07.06 12:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Riyal wrote:Diablo Ex wrote:The last time I was involved in a high sec POS bash, it was simply to remove a dead tower from a moon we were wishing to occupy. The owning corp was closed and it was just sitting there inert. We paid the wardec fee and made a party of it. It took a little over 5 hrs to drop with Torp Ravens and SB's to drop the medium "vanilla" tower. If it wasn't sitting on "prime real estate" we wouldn't have bothered.
Interesting, can you remember the number of pilots involved in that?
I couldn't recall the details, so I went back into my killboards and found that I was wrong about a few details. 1) It was in lowsec (0.2) not highsec... 2) It was a small tower not a medium... 3) There were 7 of us involved, 5 in SB's and 2 Ravens... and there was a Crane transport for ammo resupply.
PRO SYNERGY - We salvage and process the loot, and pay YOU for it. Proven methodology, weekly payout, great attitude. - join game channel "Pro Synergy" for details. http://sites.google.com/site/prospersynergy/ |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
140
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Posted - 2012.07.06 13:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Diablo Ex wrote:Riyal wrote:Diablo Ex wrote:The last time I was involved in a high sec POS bash, it was simply to remove a dead tower from a moon we were wishing to occupy. The owning corp was closed and it was just sitting there inert. We paid the wardec fee and made a party of it. It took a little over 5 hrs to drop with Torp Ravens and SB's to drop the medium "vanilla" tower. If it wasn't sitting on "prime real estate" we wouldn't have bothered.
Interesting, can you remember the number of pilots involved in that? I couldn't recall the details, so I went back into my killboards and found that I was wrong about a few details. 1) It was in lowsec (0.2) not highsec... 2) It was a small tower not a medium... 3) There were 7 of us involved, 5 in SB's and 2 Ravens... and there was a Crane transport for ammo resupply. Even in low sec POS bashes are not so common.
No matter where the POS is, taking down a POS is long and boring. Nobody will bother just for fun because it is not fun. It is more boring than mining. unless your POS is in someones way or they are mad at you for something else, there is little chance anyone will bother taking it down. Not to say it will not happen, but you have a good chance of survival. In high sec POS bashes are extremely rare and are almost never random targets.
Most POSes in high sec that are taken down are generally done AFK by large lasers on a groups of BS's and/or BC's. and this is not done on towers that have any chance of defenders showing up. |
Riyal
Chode Extravaganza
44
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Posted - 2012.07.08 16:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Diablo Ex wrote:Riyal wrote:Diablo Ex wrote:The last time I was involved in a high sec POS bash, it was simply to remove a dead tower from a moon we were wishing to occupy. The owning corp was closed and it was just sitting there inert. We paid the wardec fee and made a party of it. It took a little over 5 hrs to drop with Torp Ravens and SB's to drop the medium "vanilla" tower. If it wasn't sitting on "prime real estate" we wouldn't have bothered.
Interesting, can you remember the number of pilots involved in that? I couldn't recall the details, so I went back into my killboards and found that I was wrong about a few details. 1) It was in lowsec (0.2) not highsec... 2) It was a small tower not a medium... 3) There were 7 of us involved, 5 in SB's and 2 Ravens... and there was a Crane transport for ammo resupply.
Thank you for checking, pos bashing is one area I have not been involved with so far, its good to get some figures. And it seems even small pos are a pain to remove without capital support, that explains the offline pos littering high sec. |
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