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Iaoth
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Posted - 2010.02.13 22:37:00 -
[1]
If not, I can see an enormous problem with that................
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.13 22:40:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Iaoth
If not, I can see an enormous problem with that................
Don't worry, humans will solve that problem. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2010.02.13 22:45:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Iaoth
If not, I can see an enormous problem with that................
Don't worry, humans will solve that problem.
this ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
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Posted - 2010.02.13 22:47:00 -
[4]
Hard limit?
How hard is it to understand the sandbox idea?
Of course there is no hard limit - besides the absolute number of systems.
There are practical socio-dynamic limits though. Large alliances are difficult to organize. Few alliances manage survive more than a few months. And that's before we look at the neighbours who push from the other side. And the roaming gangs. And internal drama and failure cascades. And sabotage. Etc ...
--- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE |
Iaoth
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Posted - 2010.02.13 22:52:00 -
[5]
Seriously, there must be a "tipping point" where one alliance grows so large, so powerful, that all other alliances and corps combined can't bring it down.
It is human nature to wnat to be "on the winning team", look at IT alliance for example, and how rapidly it expanded. This observation is not a slight on that alliance, any more than the observation that PL, SoT and Goons for instance, plummeted.
I have paid attention a little, and so far things have happened that "shook the mix" and destabilized things, preventing anyone from getting to large a head of steam going......BoB got nuked from within by a traitor, Goons just failed, SOV mechanics were changed by CCP, etc., each of these things helped head off a complete domination run, but...........
I can see how a leader with enough charisma can build an organization that will eventually, barring extreme outside influence, completely own nullsec outright.
I don't think that is a good thing at all.
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WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2010.02.13 22:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Iaoth Seriously, there must be a "tipping point" where one alliance grows so large, so powerful, that all other alliances and corps combined can't bring it down.
It is human nature to wnat to be "on the winning team", look at IT alliance for example, and how rapidly it expanded. This observation is not a slight on that alliance, any more than the observation that PL, SoT and Goons for instance, plummeted.
I have paid attention a little, and so far things have happened that "shook the mix" and destabilized things, preventing anyone from getting to large a head of steam going......BoB got nuked from within by a traitor, Goons just failed, SOV mechanics were changed by CCP, etc., each of these things helped head off a complete domination run, but...........
I can see how a leader with enough charisma can build an organization that will eventually, barring extreme outside influence, completely own nullsec outright.
I don't think that is a good thing at all.
Holy crap, you know what else doesn't have a hard cap. REAL LIFE. Runnn for your livesssssss.
----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
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Namira Sable
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Posted - 2010.02.13 22:59:00 -
[7]
I'm sure the inactivity of Goon leadership had nothing to do with IT's southern expansion.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.13 23:00:00 -
[8]
Originally by: WarlockX
Holy crap, you know what else doesn't have a hard cap. REAL LIFE. Runnn for your livesssssss.
The government will save us!!! that's what they are there for right? right guys? .... right?
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.13 23:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Iaoth Seriously, there must be a "tipping point" where one alliance grows so large, so powerful, that all other alliances and corps combined can't bring it down.
Yes there is. Fortunately, it just so happens that this tipping point is roughly 50ly beyond the point where the alliance breaks up due to its own size.
So no, really: humans will solve that problem. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2010.02.13 23:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: WarlockX
Holy crap, you know what else doesn't have a hard cap. REAL LIFE. Runnn for your livesssssss.
The government will save us!!! that's what they are there for right? right guys? .... right?
This is not the time for jokes! There's nothing stopping one country or faction from taking over the entire world! How could we have all overseen this grievous error?? ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.02.13 23:05:00 -
[11]
If you see an enormous problem with that, you must also believe that America will eventually take over the entire world a la Risk. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Iaoth
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Posted - 2010.02.13 23:14:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Glengrant Hard limit?
How hard is it to understand the sandbox idea?
Give that tired old line a rest, will ya?
Sandbox my ass. You cant anchor a POS as an NPC corp player. You can't anchor a POS in +.8 sec space. You can't have capitals in high sec. A single corp can't claim SOV, only an alliance can do that. Ditto building moms and titans. I could go on and on, So much for "The Sandbox".
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Bl4ckMech
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Posted - 2010.02.13 23:21:00 -
[13]
Actually people have built their own titans while in npc corps, and the reason we can't have capitols in high sec is cause someone had to go and abuse them in high sec.
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Iaoth
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Posted - 2010.02.13 23:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Bl4ckMech Actually people have built their own titans while in npc corps, and the reason we can't have capitols in high sec is cause someone had to go and abuse them in high sec.
I call BS.
You need a Cap Ship Assembly Array at a POS to do that. An NPC player cant anchor a POS anywhere, much less modules at one.
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Harvoth
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Posted - 2010.02.13 23:29:00 -
[15]
And where's chribba when you need him to show off his mining dreadnaught in high sec.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.02.13 23:31:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Iaoth
If not, I can see an enormous problem with that................
There is, as an alliance grows larger the chances of epic drama eventually approach 1.
Want to test a supercap on SISI but don't have one? |
Nepech Al'akir
Amarr Resonance.
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Posted - 2010.02.13 23:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: WarlockX
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: WarlockX
Holy crap, you know what else doesn't have a hard cap. REAL LIFE. Runnn for your livesssssss.
The government will save us!!! that's what they are there for right? right guys? .... right?
This is not the time for jokes! There's nothing stopping one country or faction from taking over the entire world! How could we have all overseen this grievous error??
yo give this fella the funny guy award of the year, sure made my soil my pants
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.13 23:33:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sokratesz There is, as an alliance grows larger the chances of epic drama eventually approach 1.
Good ole' Godwin's Corollary on Internal Alliance Politics
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Iaoth
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Posted - 2010.02.13 23:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Harvoth And where's chribba when you need him to show off his mining dreadnaught in high sec.
Yes. And what happens if he ever moves it out of hi sec? Or engages in combat with it?
Try again, scooter.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.02.14 00:17:00 -
[20]
Let us build outposts in high-sec pls!
Secure 3rd party service |
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Khemul Zula
Amarr Keisen Trade League
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Posted - 2010.02.14 00:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Iaoth
Yes. And what happens if he ever moves it out of hi sec? Or engages in combat with it?
Tash-Murkon Prime becomes the primary trade hub for Amarr space as people realize that the Amarr system is not nearly as interesting as it seemed.
Originally by: GM Horse I've sadly misplaced my magic "find farmers in ravens" button.
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Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.02.14 00:25:00 -
[22]
The hard limit is dictated by the 3 S:
Sociology, Statistics, Stupidity. No alliance can grow that big no matter how much people are willing to try. Sociology can tell you that people will try to act against their own alliance for their own profit. Statistics tell you what's the probability of this event happening. Stupidity will make it happen eventually, no matter what.
THIS is my main. |
Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Fyretracker Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.14 00:30:00 -
[23]
personal cliques limit the size. at some point in any group large enough a smaller group forms that doesnt like how things are run and they break off on their own. and from there many times things will spiral and shatter the larger group.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.02.14 00:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Chribba Let us build outposts in high-sec pls!
sounds good to me!
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Boomershoot
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.02.14 00:32:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Chribba Let us build outposts in high-sec pls!
sounds good to me!
Let us outpost high-sec in build pls!
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Sahriah BloodStone
Caldari No.Mercy Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.02.14 01:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Iaoth Seriously, there must be a "tipping point" where one alliance grows so large, so powerful, that all other alliances and corps combined can't bring it down.
It is human nature to wnat to be "on the winning team", look at IT alliance for example, and how rapidly it expanded. This observation is not a slight on that alliance, any more than the observation that PL, SoT and Goons for instance, plummeted.
I have paid attention a little, and so far things have happened that "shook the mix" and destabilized things, preventing anyone from getting to large a head of steam going......BoB got nuked from within by a traitor, Goons just failed, SOV mechanics were changed by CCP, etc., each of these things helped head off a complete domination run, but...........
I can see how a leader with enough charisma can build an organization that will eventually, barring extreme outside influence, completely own nullsec outright.
I don't think that is a good thing at all.
I'm sorry but your logic is flawed
What you should have said is 'It is human nature to want to be "on the winning team" IF they can have things their way' The problem with your logic is that not every human has the exact same beliefs and (lol) morals. It is literally impossible for every single eve player to be content in one alliance because of a natural wanting of power, money etc etc.
Besides the CCP sov change, the breaking up of BoB and Goons were both human oriented, thus proving the point that no one alliance will ever rule EvE forever. Somethings always going to happen, If you undetstand human nature at all you should know that.
Hell there have been some very powerful leaders in the real world that have persuaded/brain washed entire countries into their service, but there is ALWAYS someone who will oppose end of story.
---------------------- Sahriah Bloodstone No.Mercy
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Samantha U
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Posted - 2010.02.14 01:17:00 -
[27]
What hasn't been mentioned so far is sheer bloody mindedness, when arsey sods like me see the big guy hogging all the resources and decide 'right, I'm gonna have you!' and start figuring out ways to nip at the heels of the bigger dog. We may not want control of the space they hold, we just like punching above our weight because of the aforementioned bloody minded attitude.
But natural entropy often plays it's part, as was shown with various large alliance, most recently the Goons, where the larger and more complex the system, the more chance there is of some form of fault or error being introduced to the system causing it to breakdown. This could be a slow erosion as the alliance enters a failcascade over several months or something that tears the alliance apart in a matter of hours or days.
And history shows that all empires fall eventually.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari Fyretracker Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2010.02.14 01:17:00 -
[28]
same is said about Guilds in EQ and WoW type games, at some point they die. and its not because of something done by the game company but always from with in.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.02.14 01:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Iaoth
If not, I can see an enormous problem with that................
think you underestimate human stupidity... ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2010.02.14 01:22:00 -
[30]
How is an upper limit, or hard cap, any different from a plain old limit?
My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
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