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Galactic Tycoon
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Posted - 2010.02.19 18:23:00 -
[61]
At the end of the day never give in to these idiots who slash prices. Never even think of buying them out, because A) they'll know that item will be bought all out by someone watching that item and b) they'll learn it's a good strategy when it's a truely childish strategy.
I don't understand them to be honest, you can easily both share the margin. When the margins are cut so signficantly between your order and theirs they force your hand and you have to lower to undercut them in order to be selling first. So the competition they sort to avoid and get a quick sell failed and cost them millions of isk, in some cases hundreds of millions to billions of isk. Hence why it's a competely stupid amd senseless thing to do unless they're just deliberately doing it because they can afford to waste isk.
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Vossejongk
Caldari Bendebeukers Green Rhino
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Posted - 2010.02.19 18:46:00 -
[62]
An actual EVE soap!
Excellent But then again I cant really approve of any of this because this is my signature |
Stevea
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Posted - 2010.02.20 09:43:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon At the end of the day never give in to these idiots who slash prices. Never even think of buying them out, because A) they'll know that item will be bought all out by someone watching that item and b) they'll learn it's a good strategy when it's a truely childish strategy.
I don't understand them to be honest, you can easily both share the margin. When the margins are cut so signficantly between your order and theirs they force your hand and you have to lower to undercut them in order to be selling first. So the competition they sort to avoid and get a quick sell failed and cost them millions of isk, in some cases hundreds of millions to billions of isk. Hence why it's a competely stupid amd senseless thing to do unless they're just deliberately doing it because they can afford to waste isk.
As an opinion or statement of fact, this may or may not be true. As it pertains to this thread and what happened, this is far from relevant or meaningful. The point was that this mentality was applied with blind belief in what the correct price was when in reality the OP was wrong about the correct price. Using this mentality and nothing else is dangerous with goods whose price is very, very volatile, like in this case, because its easy to gun down someone based on undercutting alone.
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SaneBlade
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2010.02.20 10:30:00 -
[64]
Edited by: SaneBlade on 20/02/2010 10:31:16
Originally by: xythyl
But honestly, who does this benefit? As you can see, the desperate / dumb traders follow suit and adjust their orders to undercut the initial uber-under-cutter. It's like a special-Olympics version of dominoes.
Market experts are calling this as 'kill' in market pvp.
EDIT: Yes, killing the market is best way to get rid of others. Undercut untill they leave, and then profit
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2010.02.20 11:09:00 -
[65]
lol I can't believe this thread is still going. What do margins have to do with profit anyway? The arguments on here are all lost on me
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Zos Tarkross
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.02.20 23:19:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon Hence why it's a competely stupid amd senseless thing to do unless they're just deliberately doing it because they can afford to waste isk.
Congratulations, then, Galactic Tycoon. Are you so big, we need to call you Mr. Tycoon? They are stupid, you are not. Therefore, you win EvE.
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Xyfu
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.21 12:10:00 -
[67]
After reading through the first few posts, I was reminded of a time...
I saw some dumb nut had undercut regional, in the hub, and if I bought and resold, at even half the margin he ****ed over, I'd make a hefty sum. Problem being I was no more than a level III mission runner at the time, so I borrowed. Off a friend. Musta been the riskiest 300m he ever put anywhere, but it paid off, within 8 hours, a free 10m or so for each of us. (Remember, I was young!)
I then scoured the market for anything else like this. Made my first 100m that way. Absolutely hated it, though, so I bought a Raven, (I was in a Drake before), and passive fit it.
Yay me. _____ ^ That is a sig line. It should be there without me having to put one in. |
Galactic Tycoon
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Posted - 2010.02.24 11:09:00 -
[68]
Steve, the OP was talking about undercutting so I don't see why my post wasn't relevant?
I've been trading for years and anyone else will tell you that if someone undercuts to try to sell early, someone always follows suit. It always happens without fail and the people who undercut, especially in Jita.....have a very shot time of being the cheapest in Jita before the lemmings copy the price by forcing thier hands. So yeah I don't think it ever does make sense.
Zos, don't be a child. In the examples I've given atleast....how is losing 700m of isk not stupid? I don't see why a trader would list so many drakes at a price that is sooo low in a busy system where you're going to get a lemming match your order in a matter of hours. The guy I'm talkign about has since sold only 2 out of 70 of his drakes, because he brought the competition to himself, exactly what he was trying to avoid. His order is constantly knocked off the top now and its going to take him months at this rate to get rid of 70 drakes, and he'll be selling them millions cheapers than what the going rate was before he listed them. I don't see how that isn't crazy, and all traders have the same goals, to make isk?
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Sarajo
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Posted - 2010.02.24 11:49:00 -
[69]
He might not be intending to sell his drakes. You say people are following his orders, therefor selling drakes a lot below average, or at least possible prices. Suppose he is the one buying them at those low prices, trucking them off elsewhere and turning a profit? or accomplishing some other nefarious plan with them? It could just be a ploy to acquire cheap drakes.
Just sayin' there are more possibilities for (indirect) profit than an immediate sale. Ofcourse he just might be a blithering idiot as well, lots of those around in any case.
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Svetlana Kouri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.02.24 18:25:00 -
[70]
Originally by: LarcatOfRens ITT: Nerd fight!
The only way to settle this is D20s at 20 paces.
I rolled a 1
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
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Posted - 2010.04.01 18:48:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 01/04/2010 18:51:02 Edit: Yes, I know I sorta necro'd this but I'd forgotten about this thread ;) Still laugh when I read Stevea's replies.
Originally by: Sarajo He might not be intending to sell his drakes. You say people are following his orders, therefor selling drakes a lot below average, or at least possible prices. Suppose he is the one buying them at those low prices, trucking them off elsewhere and turning a profit?
I once did this with Heretics ;) Scored a few on buy orders for 17m each... then checked jita and it was up at 40... knew I could get around 33 or so elsewhere.
Went to jita listed all my heretics @ 32.xx (not all in the same order, so it'd look like a price adjustment) and lo and behold all the heretics in the jita market swiftly came tumbling down steadily to about 27 (where it froze).
I then de-listed my unsold heretics and bought a truckload @ 27 and trucked them off to my market area and relisted them for 33....
Cost me: nothing and I wound up making more profit than I would have off my handful of heretics even if they'd sold @ 40 (which I didn't think they would since they were 0.01 isking like mad in jita). Since I never sold one for less than I obtained it for.
Never assume that someone is being stupid. It's a good chance they are (there's a lot of stupid people in EVE) but if you follow their stupidity it could be you're just falling right into their laps.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Tehg Rhind
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Posted - 2010.04.03 00:07:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon At the end of the day never give in to these idiots who slash prices. Never even think of buying them out, because A) they'll know that item will be bought all out by someone watching that item and b) they'll learn it's a good strategy when it's a truely childish strategy.
1) I have no interest sharing anything with anyone. Ever. I don't see where any of this "boo hoo you're hurting other traders, we're a community" garbage comes from. Traders are the most ruthless solo pvpers in the game
2) There's no reason ever to not play .01? Really. Maybe if all you do is sit in Jita, and you don't vertically integrate your trading with industry, then yeah. Of course at that point you should just shoot yourself, because you've turned EvE into a thoughtless skinner box. Congrats.
There are many many many many many reasons to not play .01. One of the biggest underlying reasons is that some people want to dissuade others from outbidding them. Luckily, the "tycoons" out there like you are terrified of having to figure out what their margins really are, and /quit when they see a 10% kick. Which is awesome for me when I do inter-regional trading or mineral value expansion.
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Augeas
Anvil of Creation
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Posted - 2010.04.03 13:48:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Tehg Rhind
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon At the end of the day never give in to these idiots who slash prices. Never even think of buying them out, because A) they'll know that item will be bought all out by someone watching that item and b) they'll learn it's a good strategy when it's a truely childish strategy.
1) I have no interest sharing anything with anyone. Ever.
This. I'd rather press the Big Red MAD button rather than have to share.
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Caelum Bootes
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Posted - 2010.04.03 13:54:00 -
[74]
Sometimes, I just go into trade hub. Start looking for good trades, wich has good volume and good margins...
...and then I JUST WRECK THE MARGIN BY SPAMMING 50 FAKE ORDERS MWHAHAHAHAH
Tears are delicious
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omgevenmoarfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.04.03 17:05:00 -
[75]
OP you need to die in real life in game.
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Tehg Rhind
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Posted - 2010.04.03 21:26:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Augeas
Originally by: Tehg Rhind
Originally by: Galactic Tycoon At the end of the day never give in to these idiots who slash prices. Never even think of buying them out, because A) they'll know that item will be bought all out by someone watching that item and b) they'll learn it's a good strategy when it's a truely childish strategy.
1) I have no interest sharing anything with anyone. Ever.
This. I'd rather press the Big Red MAD button rather than have to share.
Damned right. I mean, if you only learned one lesson from Dr Strangelove it should be that destroying your enemy is worth any price.
In all seriousness though, its all about volume. I'll see these whales/Lennies trading with buy orders of 100 times the daily average volume and just nail him with escrow attrition. I know my margins, and I don't hurt them that bad (go from 40% to 30%), but the cost to him in escrow is....well its delicious.
So its not MAD, its attrition. And it works on Lennies because they have a lot of money and not enough smarts to not place too large of an order.
Another situation I recently came across was where I realized that I could increase my margin by 5-10% if I allowed some other traders in on it. But the way I saw it, 5% gain for me was not enough to justify any gain for another trader. 10% might be. Still haven't decided.
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Clasina
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Posted - 2010.04.04 16:42:00 -
[77]
If you're not trying to sell for the absolute highest price you can you're an idiot hope that clears things up.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.04.04 17:00:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Clasina If you're not trying to sell for the absolute highest price you can you're an idiot hope that clears things up.
Pot, meet kettle. How does seeing beyond (NOW) imply any lack of intellect? There is nothing shameful by admitting that you don't understand why someone commits to a certain course of action. However isn't the dunce's cap on your own head if you automatically dismiss it as lunacy? If I poison the well today so that I can have a clean well to myself tomorrow... I've maximized my profit. At least until I have to poison the well again. Forum whining and your kind of (il)logic just makes myself and forum readers laugh.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Roguehalo
Caldari Resonance Laboratories
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Posted - 2010.04.04 17:30:00 -
[79]
One of the great joys of market pvp is to do really daft stuff(irrespective of how much it costs you) jut to p*ss off the opposition. It helps ofc if you've already made your 1st 20-30b but tbh you can do it anytime. And in reality if you choose wisely the kind of daft things you do you can make loads of dosh from it.
And ofc you also get to listen to the crying and whining of market noobs in these forums
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.04.04 18:20:00 -
[80]
Damn, I thought this was a new trade-whine thread, but it's an old one. At least this one is neo-classic =D
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Clasina
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Posted - 2010.04.04 20:34:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Clasina If you're not trying to sell for the absolute highest price you can you're an idiot hope that clears things up.
Pot, meet kettle. How does seeing beyond (NOW) imply any lack of intellect? There is nothing shameful by admitting that you don't understand why someone commits to a certain course of action. However isn't the dunce's cap on your own head if you automatically dismiss it as lunacy? If I poison the well today so that I can have a clean well to myself tomorrow... I've maximized my profit. At least until I have to poison the well again. Forum whining and your kind of (il)logic just makes myself and forum readers laugh.
There's no shortage of nancy boys willing to tend the garden or some other dumb metaphor but hey continue reading your Space Wall Street Journal.
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Tehg Rhind
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Posted - 2010.04.04 20:58:00 -
[82]
Seems to be a definite disconnect from reality here w/ regards to sharing profits.
Some assumptions
1) All traders other than you are competition, therefore enemies. 2) A traders strength is his money and his smarts
Therefore: -If a traders strength is his money, giving him money is actually hurting you. -Therefore, what was a 5% gain in profits is actually 5% + increased strength in your enemy.
At that point its up to the individual trader to decide what profit margin is worth sharing, but don't think that the bottom line of today is all that matters, cause its not.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.04.04 23:33:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Clasina There's no shortage of nancy boys willing to tend the garden or some other dumb metaphor but hey continue reading your Space Wall Street Journal.
Le Sigh. Yes, I'm such a care bear. I so live for space trading. Blah, blah, blah. Any other trolling you care to do? I've heard it all and so far yours is totally unoriginal.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Tananius Ofo
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Posted - 2010.05.27 19:50:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Clasina If you're not trying to sell for the absolute highest price you can you're an idiot hope that clears things up.
And THAT is why you fail!
I can think of many reasons why I might put in a sell order way below the current orders... several have been listed here already. Off the top of my head, I've got some items and I need isk NOW..... or as noted, it's basically a fake order to get the Lemmings to jump to their market PVP deaths (i.e. they drop below my silly price and I scoop up their product, turn around and sell for profit). You really need to engage your brain before you speak again. I can only hope that I've whipped your ass in some market PVP in the past... I only hate that I didn't get to taste your tears.
BTW, this thread is good for SOOOOO much lolz.
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Ishtar Terra
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:00:00 -
[85]
I sell things for less point oh one warriors fall, like cherry blossoms.
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