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mPistoleroZ
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Posted - 2010.02.17 14:26:00 -
[1]
Ok CCP wants that game mechanic to exist so you can easily CHEAT and escape a battle you would probably loose if you were doing anything else... but.. WHY the hell ship is unlockable when you jump on a gate and then log out????? (you know what comes next... log in, log out, log in, log out).
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Red zeon
Caldari Circle of Shadows Black Swan.
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Posted - 2010.02.17 15:22:00 -
[2]
ooh did someone logofski for you, poor you :(
yeah it would be awsome if your ship wouldnt warp away in a crash, like a complex, or mission, or even in fleetbattle while your not even primatyd.. yeah awsome changes! bring em on! since eve hasnt crashed for anyone!
your so awsome i want your autograph
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.02.17 15:40:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 17/02/2010 15:40:57 avoiding fights which would end in a certain death is nothing special and just the result of common sense. Whether its done by logoff or warping from SS to SS doesnt really matter, the latter is even a waste of time, so why not just log off??
I dont like logoffski at all and would prefer mechanics, which force you to dock for safety but, well, I understand the reasons for current mechanics and have used it for myself sometimes already =)
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.02.17 16:12:00 -
[4]
I really like how a Freighter stupid enough to jump into a pirate infested system unescorted can now just logoffski and be totally invulnerable for the entire 60 seconds it takes for it to warp away.
Safer than moving through Hi-Sec
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.02.17 16:27:00 -
[5]
wow it isnt like we had that topic last week already.
anyway ... what is your feature or idea?
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mPistoleroZ
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Posted - 2010.02.17 19:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Meeko Atari I really like how a Freighter stupid enough to jump into a pirate infested system unescorted can now just logoffski and be totally invulnerable for the entire 60 seconds it takes for it to warp away.
Safer than moving through Hi-Sec
EXACTLY!!!!! With the alibi of lag/bad connection/blabla, you ruin the game...
Whoever disconnects should be vulnerable as it happens when you are already in a fight and you loose connection. Why not just disappearing in this situation too??? This is rediculous
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.02.17 20:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: mPistoleroZ
Originally by: Meeko Atari I really like how a Freighter stupid enough to jump into a pirate infested system unescorted can now just logoffski and be totally invulnerable for the entire 60 seconds it takes for it to warp away.
Safer than moving through Hi-Sec
EXACTLY!!!!! With the alibi of lag/bad connection/blabla, you ruin the game...
Whoever disconnects should be vulnerable as it happens when you are already in a fight and you loose connection. Why not just disappearing in this situation too??? This is rediculous
It's a feature to keep Carebears from petitioning the kill after they stupidly jump into a hostile system unscouted.
Working as intended
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Red zeon
Caldari Circle of Shadows Black Swan.
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Posted - 2010.02.17 20:31:00 -
[8]
also if you get a volley on em or agress in anyway, they stay in sopace 15min before they disapear.
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mPistoleroZ
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Posted - 2010.02.17 22:39:00 -
[9]
oh really? you cannot do that after he jumps on a gate and logs out though...no matter how fast wou lock.. no?
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Red zeon
Caldari Circle of Shadows Black Swan.
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Posted - 2010.02.18 00:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: mPistoleroZ oh really? you cannot do that after he jumps on a gate and logs out though...no matter how fast wou lock.. no?
well jsut have probes out on the gate at 0,5au and when he disconnects, you just hit the scan button couple secs after warpoff (as the fleet aligns at the direction the ship warps off) and warp fleet to location of the ship. hes ship will have all active mods turned off, all shield armor and hull hp reduced since no skills effect the ship. tho i dont know if extener or plates get neglected. and just pop him, you should easyly have about 40s to gank him, with a decent small gang, you can do it. i dont really see your whine, its better they jump in and logofski than not jump in. use that to your advantage and let em think they will be safe.
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Amneamnius
Primary.
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Posted - 2010.02.18 10:29:00 -
[11]
If CCP would change their reimbursement policy towards legit crashes, I'd support lengthening the time to disappear after a logofski.
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mPistoleroZ
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Posted - 2010.02.18 13:54:00 -
[12]
if you log out and log in and the same again properly... there is no time to launch probes and scan and tackle as the enemy ship is in almost constant warping... you know that..
and what if he never takes agro? like the freighter mentioned? been unable to travel safe isnt part of the game that someone else could take advantage of it??
EVERYONE knows this is not a fair game play, thing is why CCP keeps that to happen. It has become quite more frequent now to disconnect to save your ship rather than because you crashed. It's even some alliance's policy!!!
Solution: vulnerable ship while log out on gate all the time during its warping process and any agro makes it stay for 15mins and always warping back to the same spot while logging in again.
We dont talk about fleet fights to lag so hard... we are talking about even ONLY 2 pilots in space where this is the best way to save your ship.
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.02.18 15:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Meeko Atari I really like how a Freighter stupid enough to jump into a pirate infested system unescorted can now just logoffski and be totally invulnerable for the entire 60 seconds it takes for it to warp away.
Safer than moving through Hi-Sec
No, they don't warp anywhere if you scram them, then you can kill them... IF you have enough dps to do it in 60 seconds. That is the problem with the logoff timers. If they log without aggro then even if you scram them and start shooting them, they still vanish right before your eyes after 60 seconds.
Originally by: Red zeon also if you get a volley on em or agress in anyway, they stay in sopace 15min before they disapear.
No, they don't. Aggression only counts if you do it BEFORE they log. If they ctrl-q while still gate cloaked, then it doesn't count as aggression when you attack them 2 seconds later, and they vanish after 60 seconds if you can't kill them in that time.
Originally by: Red zeon
Originally by: mPistoleroZ oh really? you cannot do that after he jumps on a gate and logs out though...no matter how fast wou lock.. no?
well jsut have probes out on the gate at 0,5au and when he disconnects, you just hit the scan button couple secs after warpoff (as the fleet aligns at the direction the ship warps off) and warp fleet to location of the ship. hes ship will have all active mods turned off, all shield armor and hull hp reduced since no skills effect the ship. tho i dont know if extener or plates get neglected. and just pop him, you should easyly have about 40s to gank him, with a decent small gang, you can do it. i dont really see your whine, its better they jump in and logofski than not jump in. use that to your advantage and let em think they will be safe.
Please know what you are talking about and actually TRY it before giving advice to others. It takes them 20 seconds to warp to their ss, takes you 10 seconds to scan them down, takes you 20 seconds to warp to them, leaving you with only 10 seconds to kill them. It does not work, try it some time. Nothing more frustrating than finding the bastard, scrambling him, opening fire, then poof, he's gone.
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.02.18 15:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gaogan
Originally by: Meeko Atari I really like how a Freighter stupid enough to jump into a pirate infested system unescorted can now just logoffski and be totally invulnerable for the entire 60 seconds it takes for it to warp away.
Safer than moving through Hi-Sec
No, they don't warp anywhere if you scram them, then you can kill them... IF you have enough dps to do it in 60 seconds. That is the problem with the logoff timers. If they log without aggro then even if you scram them and start shooting them, they still vanish right before your eyes after 60 seconds.
Originally by: Red zeon also if you get a volley on em or agress in anyway, they stay in sopace 15min before they disapear.
No, they don't. Aggression only counts if you do it BEFORE they log. If they ctrl-q while still gate cloaked, then it doesn't count as aggression when you attack them 2 seconds later, and they vanish after 60 seconds if you can't kill them in that time.
Originally by: Red zeon
Originally by: mPistoleroZ oh really? you cannot do that after he jumps on a gate and logs out though...no matter how fast wou lock.. no?
well jsut have probes out on the gate at 0,5au and when he disconnects, you just hit the scan button couple secs after warpoff (as the fleet aligns at the direction the ship warps off) and warp fleet to location of the ship. hes ship will have all active mods turned off, all shield armor and hull hp reduced since no skills effect the ship. tho i dont know if extener or plates get neglected. and just pop him, you should easyly have about 40s to gank him, with a decent small gang, you can do it. i dont really see your whine, its better they jump in and logofski than not jump in. use that to your advantage and let em think they will be safe.
Please know what you are talking about and actually TRY it before giving advice to others. It takes them 20 seconds to warp to their ss, takes you 10 seconds to scan them down, takes you 20 seconds to warp to them, leaving you with only 10 seconds to kill them. It does not work, try it some time. Nothing more frustrating than finding the bastard, scrambling him, opening fire, then poof, he's gone.
Have you tried to Lock a logged off Freighter? the quick answer is that you can't, EVE will tell you that the "target" is invulnerable for...you guessed it... 60 seconds then he will warp away or just disappear, even if he is in a bubble.
The sad part is that this will work for any ship, as long as you log off before you were locked and took aggression, It's the ultimate Warp Core Stabilizer and yes I exploit it as well.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.02.18 16:23:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 18/02/2010 16:25:38 just drop a bubble on them in order to prevent emergency warps.. oh wait, you're not in 0.0??? You expect non-carebear mechanics in a carebear space?! Whose fault is THIS??
^^ look, this guy is talking about elite pvp while being in empire! HAHA really cute
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.02.18 16:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Robert Caldera Edited by: Robert Caldera on 18/02/2010 16:25:38 just drop a bubble on them in order to prevent emergency warps.. oh wait, you're not in 0.0??? You expect non-carebear mechanics in a carebear space?! Whose fault is THIS??
^^ look, this guy is talking about elite pvp while being in empire! HAHA really cute
The same exploit works in empire, low-sec and 0.0
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.02.18 16:51:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 18/02/2010 16:52:32
Originally by: Meeko Atari
The same exploit works in empire, low-sec and 0.0
did you overlook or simply ignored that(actually core) part of my posting about the bubble? Ships don't do emergency warps out of bubbles.
btw. its not an exploit, exploits are petitionable. Please use correct terms for things, even if its not in your favor tbh.
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.02.18 16:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Meeko Atari
Have you tried to Lock a logged off Freighter? the quick answer is that you can't, EVE will tell you that the "target" is invulnerable for...you guessed it... 60 seconds then he will warp away or just disappear, even if he is in a bubble.
The sad part is that this will work for any ship, as long as you log off before you were locked and took aggression, It's the ultimate Warp Core Stabilizer and yes I exploit it as well.
I thought it was clear that yes, I have done this. Unless they broke it in the last week or two, you get the invulnerable target crap for about 2 seconds after a ship decloaks, so if it can align and warp that fast, then yes, it gets away. A freighter though you can easily lock and scramble before it can warp then you either get very frustrated at not having enough dps to kill it before it vanishes in 60 seconds ( happened to me a few times ) or you kill it ( happened to me a few times as well ).
F*CK your dog gamn 5 minute post timer. |
Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.02.18 17:43:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Meeko Atari on 18/02/2010 17:44:48
Originally by: Gaogan
Originally by: Meeko Atari
Have you tried to Lock a logged off Freighter? the quick answer is that you can't, EVE will tell you that the "target" is invulnerable for...you guessed it... 60 seconds then he will warp away or just disappear, even if he is in a bubble.
The sad part is that this will work for any ship, as long as you log off before you were locked and took aggression, It's the ultimate Warp Core Stabilizer and yes I exploit it as well.
I thought it was clear that yes, I have done this. Unless they broke it in the last week or two, you get the invulnerable target crap for about 2 seconds after a ship decloaks, so if it can align and warp that fast, then yes, it gets away. A freighter though you can easily lock and scramble before it can warp then you either get very frustrated at not having enough dps to kill it before it vanishes in 60 seconds ( happened to me a few times ) or you kill it ( happened to me a few times as well ).
I think they must have broke it ( or adjusted it ) because the moment you log off the ship is invulnerable, unless you were locked / aggro'd before you logged.
A really broken game mechanic in my opinion, it rewards bad hasty decisions.
Sorry for the edit I suck at posting
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.02.18 19:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Meeko Atari
I think they must have broke it ( or adjusted it ) because the moment you log off the ship is invulnerable, unless you were locked / aggro'd before you logged.
A really broken game mechanic in my opinion, it rewards bad hasty decisions.
Sorry for the edit I suck at posting
Nope, just tested it again and I had no problem locking my alt in a freighter after she jumped through a gate and immediately ctrl-qed.
F*CK your dog gamn 5 minute post timer. |
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.02.18 19:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gaogan
Originally by: Meeko Atari
I think they must have broke it ( or adjusted it ) because the moment you log off the ship is invulnerable, unless you were locked / aggro'd before you logged.
A really broken game mechanic in my opinion, it rewards bad hasty decisions.
Sorry for the edit I suck at posting
Nope, just tested it again and I had no problem locking my alt in a freighter after she jumped through a gate and immediately ctrl-qed.
Hmm Than there must be some other form of the logoffski, there is a freighter pilot in low-sec where I live that has been going in and out of low-sec.
All I hear on comms is that no one can lock him after he logs out, while everyone sits there and watches his logged off freighter warp away to safty
I also have tried it personally in a BC when i jumped into a bubble camp, waited 30 seconds and logged off while I was still cloaked, when I logged back in later my ship was still there.
It is a game mechanic that should not exist or at least be looked into
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.02.18 20:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Meeko Atari
Hmm Than there must be some other form of the logoffski, there is a freighter pilot in low-sec where I live that has been going in and out of low-sec.
All I hear on comms is that no one can lock him after he logs out, while everyone sits there and watches his logged off freighter warp away to safty
There are two explanations I can think of. The first is that some idiot ( or alt/friend of the freighter pilot ) DID lock the freighter and only webbed it, not scrambled it, causing it to go into insta warp before anyone could get a point on it. The second is that they DID get it scrambled, but didn't have enough dps to kill it before it vanished anyway 60 seconds later. I guess the third possibility is that they are just all fing ******s ;)
Originally by: Meeko Atari
I also have tried it personally in a BC when i jumped into a bubble camp, waited 30 seconds and logged off while I was still cloaked, when I logged back in later my ship was still there.
Then the people at the camp chose not to shoot you. Maybe this was in providence where people are NRDS? Because I can guarantee you that if you logged in a bubble your ship just decloaked and sat there for 60 seconds.
Originally by: Meeko Atari
It is a game mechanic that should not exist or at least be looked into
Yes, just not the mechanic you think. It is the vanishing after 60 seconds even when you are scrambled and being shot at that needs fixed. We lost a carrier to this once too at a hostile pos we were siegeing because he logged in and didn't enter the password so he bounced. He realized this immediately though and logged before we got him tackled, so even though he was flying 100 km away from the pos with a few cepters orbiting him with scrams on, he vanished before we could kill him.
F*CK your dog gamn 5 minute post timer. |
Avatoin
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Posted - 2010.02.19 16:09:00 -
[23]
I imagine CCP put this in place because of the number of petitions that would come in of people complaining that EVE crashed on them while in a mission or a fight or whatever.
Maybe if the server could distinguish from a log-out and a crash, it could handle the situations differently. In a crash, the mechanic works as intended. In a log-out, oh well, i guess you should bring a scout next time.
One problem I can see with this is people finding a way of crashing the client (or heck just kill its from task-manager). So maybe it wouldn't work.
I guess until CCP can guarentee that any crashes are not related to the client or the server, they may just have to keep like this. (Lets just hope this exploit doesn't catch one too much).
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Gaogan
Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.02.19 18:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Avatoin I imagine CCP put this in place because of the number of petitions that would come in of people complaining that EVE crashed on them while in a mission or a fight or whatever.
Maybe if the server could distinguish from a log-out and a crash, it could handle the situations differently. In a crash, the mechanic works as intended. In a log-out, oh well, i guess you should bring a scout next time.
One problem I can see with this is people finding a way of crashing the client (or heck just kill its from task-manager). So maybe it wouldn't work.
I guess until CCP can guarentee that any crashes are not related to the client or the server, they may just have to keep like this. (Lets just hope this exploit doesn't catch one too much).
You seem to have the idea backwards. They did not add the vanish mechanic to protect people from being disconnected. Originally you just vanished when you disconnected period. The mechanic they added was the aggression timer to put a stop to idiots ctrl-qing in the middle of a fight once they realized they were going to loose. The problem is it doesn't go far enough because you can just log while still cloaked, before you actually get aggressed.
Every MMO every created has dealt with this issue and the the conclusion is always that you can not distinguish between a real disconnect and a forced one, so sometimes you just get screwed when you disconnect, too bad. If you want to log out legit, you have to camp for long enough that any enemy in pursuit of you has time to catch up and kill you before you vanish.
F*CK your dog gamn 5 minute post timer. |
Blamagemeter
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.02.20 03:48:00 -
[25]
Dear people who don't PVP posting on this topic:
FUN FACTS ABOUT LOGOFFSKI: Any debate about lock time, probing, emergency warp and blah blah blah play no part in this discussion. These mechanics are not involved in the "true" logoffski exploit. You jump in / they jump into you / they jump into your bubble / you throw 30 points on them / etc. No condition matters. At all. Makes absolutely no difference.
HERE IS HOW IT WORKS: Players camping X gate see 20 people enter system. AND/OR warp into a bubbled gatecamp AND/OR have any sort of undesirable situation, whatsoever. Their "sandbox gameplay" is not to their liking. They do not log off. What they do is LOG IN AN ALT ON THE SAME ACCOUNT. Provided any condition existed where they were not agro'd at the moment their alt signs in, they DISAPPEAR and DO NOT EMERGENCY WARP.
REREAD: LOG IN AN ALT ON THE SAME ACCOUNT. DISAPPEAR.
In 60 secs the ship disappears. It does not emergency warp. It does not care how scram'd it was. It does not care if you had it bubbled. It does not care if it was agro'd. All the things you consider core principles of the "sandbox envirionment" you are playing in do not apply. If you cannot kill it in 60 secs, it vanishes. Period. Not probe-able because agro'd. Not on directional. Not emergency warping. Vanished. This mechanic is absolutely 100 percent replicatable.
If you start this 60 sec timer after your ******ed sandbox exploiting rule bending cheating lowbrow worthless SCOUTLESS pilot dive bombs his <BS/Freighter/Frigate/Pod/Ibis> into a gatecamp and you are cloaked, all the better for you. Now you are cloaked for some of that 60 sec timer, leaving those not exploiting a broken mechanic even less time to dps you down before you literally disappear. It should be noted that the kills you -do- get .. when you can burn the logoffski down in 60 seconds taste like a mixture of candy, steak and money. Once this is a hillarious joke and in the past, I will somewhat miss the sweat taste of 60 sec fail logoffski juice.
I don't know if moving to 0.0 has just put me in more constant contact with tactic-less, scout-less, clown corps that use this as a crutch to effectively remove their inability to scout from the combat equation in their game, but it's as well documented an exploit as there is in eve. How it is not fixed, to enable agro'd ships to be probable (as intented) if agro'd when they pull the log-on-the-alt-on-the-same-account cheat ... is BEYOND THE REALM OF HUMAN RATIONALITY. This exploit, ships literally disappearing in space, breaks the suspension of disbelif that CCP attempts to create by having a hard and fast set of Important Spaceship Rules we all agree to fly by. PLEASE CHANGE, WITHOUT MENTION IN PATCH NOTES SO I MAY DROWN MYSELF IN THE RIGHTEOUS TEARS OF SURPRISE FAILED LOGOFFSKI!!!
CCP YOU HAVE THE ULTIMATE OPPORTUNITY FOR JUSTICE. THE POWER IS YOURS.
SECRET LOGOFFSKI FIX 2010.
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Jerid Verges
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Posted - 2010.02.20 07:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Blamagemeter PLEASE CHANGE, WITHOUT MENTION IN PATCH NOTES SO I MAY DROWN MYSELF IN THE RIGHTEOUS TEARS OF SURPRISE FAILED LOGOFFSKI!!!
If I am correct, hasn't CCP previously nerfed game mechanics without notifying the public?
I seriously support what this man says.
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Arushia
Nova Labs Labores Solis Insidiae
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Posted - 2010.02.20 07:40:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Blamagemeter *snip*
That really, really sounds like a bug. Have you tried bug reporting it? It sometimes does help.
New Eden Research, where your research gets eaten by a Goon! |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.02.20 08:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Blamagemeter REREAD: LOG IN AN ALT ON THE SAME ACCOUNT. DISAPPEAR.
Using capital letters only serves to highlight your ignorance. The log-alt-in exploit was fixed well over a year ago. The 60s to disappear is perfectly normal for non-aggro disconnects and nothing whatsoever to do with logging anything on.
What is able to survive 60s in a gatecamp anyway? Are you sure yo are not just lobbying for a change to game to avoid bringing larger more vulnerable ships?
Does anyone have a reasonable substitute to current mechanics that does not penalise legitimate disconnects unnecessarily? If not then no amount of ranting, emo-raging, arguing or reasoning will do any good .. internet is flaky as hell for some people so until a world dictator comes along and orders 100Mb/s fibre-lines for every household on the planet you are just going to have to suck it up I am afraid.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.02.20 08:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gaogan
Nope, just tested it again and I had no problem locking my alt in a freighter after she jumped through a gate and immediately ctrl-qed.
Try forcing a disconnect by logging in the character on a 2nd client...
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Blamagemeter
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.02.21 01:54:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Blamagemeter on 21/02/2010 01:54:26 //Does anyone have a reasonable substitute to current mechanics that does not penalise legitimate disconnects unnecessarily? //
THIS: // People are not asking for anything special here, the only change that is needed is that a ship as large as a freighter can actually be locked while it is going into warp, which is not possible when they pull the logoffski. //
NOTICE USE OF CAPS, BUT SPEND LESS TIME FOCUSING ON MY TYPESETTING AND MORE TIME TRYING THINGS OUT IN GAME, USING YOUR CLIENT AND YOUR VALUABLE TIME. ALSO, FOCUS ON READING COMPREHENSION: // Using capital letters only serves to highlight your ignorance. The log-alt-in exploit was fixed well over a year ago. The 60s to disappear is perfectly normal for non-aggro disconnects and nothing whatsoever to do with logging anything on. //
HONK.
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