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SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar Black Serpent Technologies R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.02.19 14:31:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Pandares
Originally by: Akuma Tsukai Edited by: Akuma Tsukai on 19/02/2010 06:04:18 i demand it right now, its one of the reasons active armor tank sucks even more it should
Active armor tank sucks? lmao
-for PVE, active armor tank is just fine, same as any other tank (remember kids, you only need 'enough' tank for your mission, no EFT-peen please) -for PVP, active armor tank is already mandatory in a lot of fights. Or you think remote repping is a 'passive' endeavor? -for most non-RR pvp, buffer is the way to go anyway, and if you fit a plate or an extender depends on the ship your in and on the way you wish to fly it.
you forget solo PVP, in which it is completely normal to have a local (active) tank (shield or armor) __________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
Pandares
Gallente hindsight is 20-20
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Posted - 2010.02.19 14:44:00 -
[32]
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
Originally by: Pandares
Originally by: Akuma Tsukai Edited by: Akuma Tsukai on 19/02/2010 06:04:18 i demand it right now, its one of the reasons active armor tank sucks even more it should
Active armor tank sucks? lmao
-for PVE, active armor tank is just fine, same as any other tank (remember kids, you only need 'enough' tank for your mission, no EFT-peen please) -for PVP, active armor tank is already mandatory in a lot of fights. Or you think remote repping is a 'passive' endeavor? -for most non-RR pvp, buffer is the way to go anyway, and if you fit a plate or an extender depends on the ship your in and on the way you wish to fly it.
you forget solo PVP, in which it is completely normal to have a local (active) tank (shield or armor)
Fair enough; didn't mention them. And as you say, both are common. _______________________________________________
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Arrador
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Posted - 2010.02.19 15:10:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Arrador on 19/02/2010 15:11:04
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Shadowy Assistant If shield tankers get a X-L Shield Extender, I demand armor tankers get an active omni hardener.
In which case shield tankers want a passive omni hardener and a -50% reduction in the CPU requirement for remote shield reps and an increase in active hardener duration to 20 seconds...
We Shield tankers would also like better base resists please
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Scrapyard Attendant
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Posted - 2010.02.19 15:17:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Scrapyard Attendant on 19/02/2010 15:24:10 /sigh @ whinging caldari carebears
if you want more ehp or w/e, cross train to armor idiots
EDIT:
forgot to add shield tankers can fit more damage mods than us armor tankers ( hence the referalls to the shield brutix )
shield gank hyper gets 100k ehp and 1k+ dps, and you still whine that your shield tanks "suck", HAHAHAHAH
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Apoctasy
Deskira Industries G String University
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Posted - 2010.02.19 18:06:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Perhaps you don't know what a cruiser with a 1600 feels like to fly.
like a pregnant sperm whale.
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Kail Storm
Caldari Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2010.02.19 20:32:00 -
[36]
I dont think shield tank sucks at all...But Shield RR is definately a Joke...Plus your argument about whinging cald carebears sucks because you go on to only mention shield ships from Galante...Lol you only mention how much better Gal ships are with shields which are made for Armor...Lol ******ed If you run, You`ll only die tired :) |
Fnuik Hawes
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Posted - 2010.02.20 11:49:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kail Storm I dont think shield tank sucks at all...But Shield RR is definately a Joke...Plus your argument about whinging cald carebears sucks because you go on to only mention shield ships from Galante...Lol you only mention how much better Gal ships are with shields which are made for Armor...Lol ******ed
You've never seen the awesome that's a HAC gang with Scimitars in support, I'm guessing.
Give up already.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.02.20 11:55:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Fnuik Hawes
Originally by: Kail Storm I dont think shield tank sucks at all...But Shield RR is definately a Joke...Plus your argument about whinging cald carebears sucks because you go on to only mention shield ships from Galante...Lol you only mention how much better Gal ships are with shields which are made for Armor...Lol ******ed
You've never seen the awesome that's a HAC gang with Scimitars in support, I'm guessing.
Give up already.
Scimitars are nice and all, but have you tried fitting a shield rep setup to anything that doesn't have a massive CPU discount?
I mean, compare if you will, how easily you can get a 'solace' rep onto a battleship, vs. a shield transporter. Plenty of battleships have 32 CPU and 600 grid to spare - that's less than the majority of BS weapons. Even with t2, you're talking 48 CPU, 660 grid, which isn't that much of a chore to accomplish - I'll confess I tend not to, as I'd rather have an EANM.
Not so many have 119 (or 154!) CPU to spare.
I don't mind overly that 'most' BS are naturally armour tankers, and that shield RR works best on smaller ships with inbuilt resists. That's reasonable. What I do mind is that the 'shield centric' battleships have a phenomenally hard time pulling off shield RR - despite the tempest and raven having two 'utility' highslots.
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Psiri
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Posted - 2010.02.20 12:01:00 -
[39]
Armor tanking is only weak atm because of armor rigs, not only are they expensive but the penalty is heavy to bear in addition to the speed penalty you already get from each plate in lows.
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Slade Hoo
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.20 12:06:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Slade Hoo on 20/02/2010 12:09:15 Edited by: Slade Hoo on 20/02/2010 12:08:11
Originally by: Psiri but the penalty is heavy to bear in addition to the speed penalty you already get from each plate in lows.
My trimarked+plated Abaddon is slower than a ****ing Nyx (88m/s)!
Signature radius penalty is only a problem for overtanked+rigged cruisers ------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum! |
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2010.02.20 12:14:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Perhaps you don't know what a cruiser with a 1600 feels like to fly.
Easiest set-up for a "ur mom" joke ever
I find LSEs are always preferable given the choice because of the speed/agility nerf a plated ship receives. In practical usage that stuff counts for way more than you'd think.
If they made X-LSEs I'd never armour tank a ship again.
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.20 12:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Alice Silversong Can anyone explain WTF is with these 2 mods?
Large Shield Extender II MID SLOT +2625 Shield +25 Signature Radius
1600MM Reinforced Steel Plates II LOW SLOT +4200 Armor +3750000 Mass
There's a mistake Large shield mods are for cruiser-size ships, BS use X-Large 1600mm plates are designed for battleships, cruisers use 400 or 800mm. -------------------------------- Fulbert. Miner - Industrialist |
Dabljuh
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Posted - 2010.02.20 13:12:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Fulbert There's a mistake Large shield mods are for cruiser-size ships, BS use X-Large 1600mm plates are designed for battleships, cruisers use 400 or 800mm.
And you figured that out how? Seeing that LSEs have fitting reqs lower by an order of magnitude? Circular reasoning detected.
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Kail Storm
Caldari Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2010.02.20 20:30:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Kail Storm on 20/02/2010 20:32:20 In a armored BS the RR is an after thought and you dont have to sacrafice any setup to have it almost at all since James said it best its less than most BS weps in grid etc.
So this means they can fit 2, if they can sacrafice a little.In Shield RR we have to sacrafice to fit 1.
So the scimitar argument is garbage since that scimitar could be another BS spider tanking your group and putting out 900 DPS IN THE PROCESS LOL.
So if you have 2 dedicated shield reps its 1800 DPS LOST that is the differance between win and lose...PERIOD
Scimitar is great for small gangs and small gate camps but if a RR fleet of BS`s come your dead, like I said. But now you need a Logi cruiser to run a Shield RR gang where as you need a BS to RR a Armored one. If you run, You`ll only die tired :) |
Pandares
Gallente hindsight is 20-20
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Posted - 2010.02.21 22:15:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kail Storm Edited by: Kail Storm on 20/02/2010 20:32:20 In a armored BS the RR is an after thought and you dont have to sacrafice any setup to have it almost at all since James said it best its less than most BS weps in grid etc.
So this means they can fit 2, if they can sacrafice a little.In Shield RR we have to sacrafice to fit 1.
So the scimitar argument is garbage since that scimitar could be another BS spider tanking your group and putting out 900 DPS IN THE PROCESS LOL.
So if you have 2 dedicated shield reps its 1800 DPS LOST that is the differance between win and lose...PERIOD
Scimitar is great for small gangs and small gate camps but if a RR fleet of BS`s come your dead, like I said. But now you need a Logi cruiser to run a Shield RR gang where as you need a BS to RR a Armored one.
ugh what's so hard about understanding that there's different tools for different jobs? Do you think carpenters whine about the fact that they can't cut a plank to size with a hammer? If armor tanking gives you wood, invest the week-and-a-half it takes to learn it. _______________________________________________
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.02.21 22:32:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Pandares
ugh what's so hard about understanding that there's different tools for different jobs? Do you think carpenters whine about the fact that they can't cut a plank to size with a hammer? If armor tanking gives you wood, invest the week-and-a-half it takes to learn it.
It's a bit more than a week and a half to cross train to an acceptable level. Or were you perhaps referring to trying to shoehorn a Caldari BS into an armour RR role? Terrible idea. Really. Try it sometime.
But that's not the point, really. I mean, I _have_ cross trained. I have Amarr BS 5, T2 lasers from my Caldari specced start. The Abaddon/Armageddon are beasts as RR ships go.
That's fine. My problem is, and remains, that I cannot see a single reason why it's so hard to fit a shield transporter - stats wise they're very comparable to an armor RR mod. You'd get the 'different tools for different jobs' thing automatically, simply because of the difference in nature of shield vs. armour tanks in the first place - where armour tanks get meaty buffers and mislots for supplemental modules, shield tankers get damage mods and don't get mass increases and speed reductions trimarks.
So tell me, really, what would be so overpowered if I actually _could_ field a single/dual RR Arty-pest, Raven, or drop a gun and do so with a Rokh/Maelstrom? And maybe, just because I'm feeling deeply and morally wrong, shield tank Megathrons, Abaddons and Hyperions too.
Would the world really end? I don't think so. I think the idea would be penalized enough by the midslot count - you'd make a bad shield tank on a Mega, but it _would_ let you do some other interesting things with your lowslots maybe? Maybe you're fitting rails, and don't see a need for auxiliary mods in your mids? *shrug*. Maybe that would be daft anyway, but even if it is, what's the harm in having more options?
What's the harm in being able to do a shield BS RR gang, with midrange artypests and ravens, losing their tackle, sensorboosting and maybe their injector, but getting raw damage output in return?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.02.21 22:50:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Pandares
ugh what's so hard about understanding that there's different tools for different jobs? Do you think carpenters whine about the fact that they can't cut a plank to size with a hammer? If armor tanking gives you wood, invest the week-and-a-half it takes to learn it.
It's a bit more than a week and a half to cross train to an acceptable level. Or were you perhaps referring to trying to shoehorn a Caldari BS into an armour RR role? Terrible idea. Really. Try it sometime.
But that's not the point, really. I mean, I _have_ cross trained. I have Amarr BS 5, T2 lasers from my Caldari specced start. The Abaddon/Armageddon are beasts as RR ships go.
That's fine. My problem is, and remains, that I cannot see a single reason why it's so hard to fit a shield transporter - stats wise they're very comparable to an armor RR mod. You'd get the 'different tools for different jobs' thing automatically, simply because of the difference in nature of shield vs. armour tanks in the first place - where armour tanks get meaty buffers and mislots for supplemental modules, shield tankers get damage mods and don't get mass increases and speed reductions trimarks.
So tell me, really, what would be so overpowered if I actually _could_ field a single/dual RR Arty-pest, Raven, or drop a gun and do so with a Rokh/Maelstrom? And maybe, just because I'm feeling deeply and morally wrong, shield tank Megathrons, Abaddons and Hyperions too.
Would the world really end? I don't think so. I think the idea would be penalized enough by the midslot count - you'd make a bad shield tank on a Mega, but it _would_ let you do some other interesting things with your lowslots maybe? Maybe you're fitting rails, and don't see a need for auxiliary mods in your mids? *shrug*. Maybe that would be daft anyway, but even if it is, what's the harm in having more options?
What's the harm in being able to do a shield BS RR gang, with midrange artypests and ravens, losing their tackle, sensorboosting and maybe their injector, but getting raw damage output in return?
Or for that matter why a Chimera has so much harder a time fitting 4x shield RR modules? I mean, it's not a problem you have with armour RR modules.
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Kail Storm
Caldari Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2010.02.21 22:57:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Pandares
Originally by: Kail Storm Edited by: Kail Storm on 20/02/2010 20:32:20 In a armored BS the RR is an after thought and you dont have to sacrafice any setup to have it almost at all since James said it best its less than most BS weps in grid etc.
So this means they can fit 2, if they can sacrafice a little.In Shield RR we have to sacrafice to fit 1.
So the scimitar argument is garbage since that scimitar could be another BS spider tanking your group and putting out 900 DPS IN THE PROCESS LOL.
So if you have 2 dedicated shield reps its 1800 DPS LOST that is the differance between win and lose...PERIOD
Scimitar is great for small gangs and small gate camps but if a RR fleet of BS`s come your dead, like I said. But now you need a Logi cruiser to run a Shield RR gang where as you need a BS to RR a Armored one.
ugh what's so hard about understanding that there's different tools for different jobs? Do you think carpenters whine about the fact that they can't cut a plank to size with a hammer? If armor tanking gives you wood, invest the week-and-a-half it takes to learn it.
sERIOUSLY MAN BE REASONABLE, im not asking for shield RR to be superior, only that it can be fit, hell the RR rate of shields is already lower on top of that they have to make it so hard you cant fit them.
Lol, getting my Armor skills up means I have to crosstrain another race which=2-3 months to be any good with t2 weps and skills. Not a week and a 1/2.
Im not saying it should be better just at least so we will see shield fleets every now and then.
As if now shields are superior in alot of ways in small groups but could armor`d ships compete...absolutely and in fact they could win just as well...COuld a BS RR shield vs Armor fleet compete...Absolutely not END OF STORY. If you run, You`ll only die tired :) |
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