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QT McWhiskers
Hard Knocks Inc.
15
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Posted - 2012.07.01 04:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
Honestly... I never understood that. If they are in a pos shield you just log them off for a little while and set a REALLY long skill train while the gankers get the tower. Then you just set up a temp pos and slowly get your caps out, if its a c5 or c6 with a good static.
Self destructing when you can have a backup plan is just dumb.
Of course self destructing while you are under attack is even dumber. These should generate killmails. That way, if you see a cap SDing inside of a pos you simply put a dic or hic on it and put the bubble up. (of course I am speaking hypothetically if they generated killmails.) |
Robot Monster
BLOMI
0
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Posted - 2012.07.01 05:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
No one mentioning insurance... All they need to do is create Km's when they sd and remove insurance payouts. Job done |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Exhale.
130
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Posted - 2012.07.01 10:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:If you guys in Exhale didn't blob every jew you saw with a 80 man blue fleet, maybe they wouldn't self destruct. Why should they bother wait as suffer as they are bored to death by your blob?
Cos we not as elite as you guys |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Exhale.
351
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Posted - 2012.07.01 10:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
there are 3 things that need to happen:
1. Self destruct generates a KM. (This will effectively stop SDing in combat since it's the reason people do it, to avoid the loss mail.)
2. No insurance payout from SDing. (Seriously, just makes sense.)
3. No SDing inside POS shield. (We all know why.)
Quote:Furthermore, SDing should kill your pod aswell, if your pod is tied to the overall stats and effects of your ship then the SD sequence should be aswell. Eject and the timer stops, go down with the ship and lose your pod. This could also be considered a compromise towards SDing inside a POS as you will lose 1 pod pr ship you SD
^i like this actually. |
Indo Nira
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
10
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Posted - 2012.07.01 11:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
G0hme wrote: Furthermore, SDing should kill your pod aswell, if your pod is tied to the overall stats and effects of your ship then the SD sequence should be aswell. Eject and the timer stops, go down with the ship and lose your pod. This could also be considered a compromise towards SDing inside a POS as you will lose 1 pod pr ship you SD.
The whole point of the pod is to keep your body and your implants safe when your ship blows up, whether it's blown up by someone of self destructed. If you just want to get an easy kill on a pod get a hic and you're done with that pilot for a while. |
Klarion Sythis
Bite Me inc Exhale.
21
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Posted - 2012.07.01 12:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Indo Nira wrote:G0hme wrote: Furthermore, SDing should kill your pod aswell, if your pod is tied to the overall stats and effects of your ship then the SD sequence should be aswell. Eject and the timer stops, go down with the ship and lose your pod. This could also be considered a compromise towards SDing inside a POS as you will lose 1 pod pr ship you SD.
The whole point of the pod is to keep your body and your implants safe when your ship blows up, whether it's blown up by someone of self destructed. If you just want to get an easy kill on a pod get a hic and you're done with that pilot for a while. It's not about the KM on the pod, nor even all that relevant to people who SD in combat. It's to make it more difficult to burn your POS to the ground from the inside when under siege. |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
257
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Posted - 2012.07.01 15:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
Klarion Sythis wrote:Indo Nira wrote:G0hme wrote: Furthermore, SDing should kill your pod aswell, if your pod is tied to the overall stats and effects of your ship then the SD sequence should be aswell. Eject and the timer stops, go down with the ship and lose your pod. This could also be considered a compromise towards SDing inside a POS as you will lose 1 pod pr ship you SD.
The whole point of the pod is to keep your body and your implants safe when your ship blows up, whether it's blown up by someone of self destructed. If you just want to get an easy kill on a pod get a hic and you're done with that pilot for a while. It's not about the KM on the pod, nor even all that relevant to people who SD in combat. It's to make it more difficult to burn your POS to the ground from the inside when under siege.
So what you are advocating is more isk for blobbers and the eviction of every small alliance/corp entity from wspace for isk? |
Klarion Sythis
Bite Me inc Exhale.
21
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Posted - 2012.07.01 15:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:So what you are advocating is more isk for blobbers and the eviction of every small alliance/corp entity from wspace for isk?
No, pretty much the opposite.
Klarion Sythis wrote:Malken wrote:just the fact that you are able to blow a ship up inside the shields of a pos is wrong.
add KM when under agression timer and stop SD in pos shields.
wanna blow your ship up then go out of shields and take it like a real man, in the face smiling.
I'm undecided on the SDing inside of shields part of the issue. If SDing can't happen, then invasions could become very profitable. This could push people into bigger alliances (or coalitions) with bigger fleets and exacerbate the escalation problem we've been seeing. Either there's relative peace or World War Wormhole. It might also drive people to fight rather than SDing their entire WH, but if they're already at that point, it would probably be a massacre rather than a fight.
The point I was making about not being able to burn the POS down around you under siege was to clarify what that point of the debate is really about. Not advocate that opinion. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
123
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Posted - 2012.07.01 16:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:If you guys in Exhale didn't blob every jew you saw with a 80 man blue fleet, maybe they wouldn't self destruct. Why should they bother wait as suffer as they are bored to death by your blob?
This post makes absolutely no sense (and whats with the Jew comment? Racism isn't cool, man)... when there's huge blobs then taking them out before the timer is easy peasy.
In general, I think SDing as a way to escape griefing (indefinitely pointed, etc) or as a way to deny the aggressors loot is fine. What bothers me though is that there's absolutely no record of it being involved in the fight. Either make the timer on capitals longer so they can't just quickly explode when things go wrong or add some additional info somewhere to say extra ships were involved and lost (even if it isn't a full killmail showing aggressors, fits, etc) |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
252
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Posted - 2012.07.01 16:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:there are 3 things that need to happen: 1. Self destruct generates a KM. (This will effectively stop SDing in combat since it's the reason people do it, to avoid the loss mail.) 2. No insurance payout from SDing. (Seriously, just makes sense.) 3. No SDing inside POS shield. (We all know why.) Quote:Furthermore, SDing should kill your pod aswell, if your pod is tied to the overall stats and effects of your ship then the SD sequence should be aswell. Eject and the timer stops, go down with the ship and lose your pod. This could also be considered a compromise towards SDing inside a POS as you will lose 1 pod pr ship you SD ^i like this actually.
I would agree with 1and 2. I don't see the big issue with self destructing inside the pos shield. But more importantly, it seems that 1 and 2 would be relatively easy to implement since it doesn't change how sd works, just the aftermath. Implementing 3 would require changing the act of sd.
And wait you can set the self destruct and not eject? Had no idea. |
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Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
258
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Posted - 2012.07.01 22:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Messoroz wrote:If you guys in Exhale didn't blob every jew you saw with a 80 man blue fleet, maybe they wouldn't self destruct. Why should they bother wait as suffer as they are bored to death by your blob? This post makes absolutely no sense (and whats with the Jew comment? Racism isn't cool, man)... when there's huge blobs then taking them out before the timer is easy peasy. )
Jews aren't a race. They are part of a religion. |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
106
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Posted - 2012.07.01 22:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:
Jews aren't a race. They are part of a religion.
They happen to be both, numbnuts. |
seany1212
Zat's Affiliated Traders Originally Riotous Corps
198
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Posted - 2012.07.02 07:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:Cybus Max wrote:It should be same as logoffski if your aggressed you can't SD for 15 mins and you can't SD in a POS ( or you can't SD in bubbles???) No, not it shouldn't. Self Destruct is there to prevent time griefing, where you get pointed, bubbled and re-aggressed to keep you there indefinitely. Thats the whole point of SD, if you get caught by assholes who are ok with idling for an hour or more while preventing you from playing the game. Everyone should have the ability to SD whenever the **** they want, except that a KM should be generated if the player was aggressed. CCP does not even have to make a lot of changes, just add Self Destruct as an involved party to the KM with the amount of damage that resulted from SDing. Simple.
Because CCP removed ejecting, amirite?
EDIT for clarification: I still maintain SD'ing should exist for capsules. |
Cybus Max
Bite Me inc Exhale.
5
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Posted - 2012.07.02 07:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Messoroz wrote:If you guys in Exhale didn't blob every jew you saw with a 80 man blue fleet, maybe they wouldn't self destruct. Why should they bother wait as suffer as they are bored to death by your blob? This post makes absolutely no sense (and whats with the Jew comment? Racism isn't cool, man)... when there's huge blobs then taking them out before the timer is easy peasy. ) Jews aren't a race. They are part of a religion.
First off your arguments don't excuse making comments like that go do your shitposting somewhere else.
Secondly as Gnaw said the simplest solution would just be to add self destruct as a aggressing party. problem solved.
Now we just need to whinge and ***** till CCP actually implements this :) |
seany1212
Zat's Affiliated Traders Originally Riotous Corps
198
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Posted - 2012.07.02 07:46:00 -
[45] - Quote
The issue is obviously self destructing in POS's, of which it makes no logical sense, firstly how you can initiate self destruct in a secure environment and then how it doesnt take any form of damage destructing in the confined space. I think self destruct as a whole need to be looked at as from a role playing perspective i find it hard to see how ibis rookie ships take the same time to self destruct as titans. |
Efraya
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
104
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Posted - 2012.07.02 08:28:00 -
[46] - Quote
TwoStep has been VERY quiet on this issue.
WSpace; Best space. |
joes Bazooka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2012.07.02 08:35:00 -
[47] - Quote
Efraya wrote:TwoStep has been VERY quiet on this issue.
I only hope he is quiet for being so BUSY writing up the damn CSM minutes. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
123
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Posted - 2012.07.02 12:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
twostep doesn't care about wh people |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
106
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Posted - 2012.07.02 15:55:00 -
[49] - Quote
seany1212 wrote:Gnaw LF wrote:Cybus Max wrote:It should be same as logoffski if your aggressed you can't SD for 15 mins and you can't SD in a POS ( or you can't SD in bubbles???) No, not it shouldn't. Self Destruct is there to prevent time griefing, where you get pointed, bubbled and re-aggressed to keep you there indefinitely. Thats the whole point of SD, if you get caught by assholes who are ok with idling for an hour or more while preventing you from playing the game. Everyone should have the ability to SD whenever the **** they want, except that a KM should be generated if the player was aggressed. CCP does not even have to make a lot of changes, just add Self Destruct as an involved party to the KM with the amount of damage that resulted from SDing. Simple. Because CCP removed ejecting, amirite? EDIT for clarification: I still maintain SD'ing should exist for capsules.
Well, in case you got trapped without a probe or a way out, eject wont help you. Since your ship will just remain drifting in space, someone will scan it down sooner or later and generate a kill mail. So no, SDing a ship should still be there but like bubbles or POS should be displayed on killmail. |
Propotkin
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
0
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Posted - 2012.07.03 08:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
I think that when somebody ejects from a self-distructing ship the self-distructing ships should stop - also maybe when self-distructing when inside a ship the pod should be lost as well
Any thoughts ?? |
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Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
86
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Posted - 2012.07.03 14:03:00 -
[51] - Quote
Propotkin wrote:I think that when somebody ejects from a self-distructing ship the self-distructing ships should stop
I'm quite sure it does. At least it did ~2 years ago. When I was bombed out of my first wormhole by Russians, I wanted to self-destruct some ships. To speed up the process, I initiated SD, then switched to another ship, initiated SD and then the next. Effect was, none of the ships blew up. Which was good, because then I reconsidered. We waited for reinforced to kick in and evacuated almost everything during the night :D The Invulnerability Sphere:Make mining/industrial vessels defendable, better fights for everyone! |
SojournerRover
Insidious Design
16
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Posted - 2012.07.03 14:35:00 -
[52] - Quote
My 2cents,
If they self destruct while aggressed = Killmail Keep the self destruct so someone doesn't just hold them there forever because they are a #####.
If you give CCP too much to think about like pos's and self destruct they will screw it up and it will never get done. Keep it simple stupid! ROVER (REDRUM)
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Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
79
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Posted - 2012.07.03 15:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:Messoroz wrote:
Jews aren't a race. They are part of a religion.
They happen to be both, numbnuts.
more nonsense coming from you again ?
Judaism is a religion, not a race, the jewish people do not share a common ancestry.
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Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
106
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Posted - 2012.07.03 15:43:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ya Huei wrote:Gnaw LF wrote:Messoroz wrote:
Jews aren't a race. They are part of a religion.
They happen to be both, numbnuts. more nonsense coming from you again ? Judaism is a religion, not a race, the jewish people do not share a common ancestry.
Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group. You can argue that they don't share common ancestry because their diaspora has intermixed with other races, but then again so has every other ethnic group out there. |
Ya Huei
Imperial Collective
79
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Posted - 2012.07.03 17:05:00 -
[55] - Quote
Hehe I agree with you on that, but I wasn't calling them a race to begin with.
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Anazzar
Howling Stones Mining Corporation
19
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Posted - 2012.07.03 23:05:00 -
[56] - Quote
I dont see the issue with SDing inside a POS, sounds like scorched earth, which is a valid tactic.
I guess SDs should generate some sort of record not just for KM whores but it can be frustrating putting all that work in to take down a super and having not only no loot to show for it but no record either. |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
67
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Posted - 2012.07.04 02:11:00 -
[57] - Quote
seany1212 wrote:
EDIT for clarification: I still maintain SD'ing should exist for capsules.
It does.
I use it all the time for hopping around the EVE cluster without having to resort to 20+ jumps if I have a ship or something way the hell out there.
1) Set Clone Location as close as possible to target ship/wormhole/racial space/etc
2) make sure clone is up to date
3) Undock, self-destruct |
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
132
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Posted - 2012.07.04 11:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
If you didnt care so much about a stupid killmail you would be happy but nah, all about the KMs.
Thats why you bring 150 people to fight 50 people, just to make sure you kill everyone of them. Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
Bane Nucleus
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
142
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Posted - 2012.07.04 13:03:00 -
[59] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:If you didnt care so much about a stupid killmail you would be happy but nah, all about the KMs.
Thats why you bring 150 people to fight 50 people, just to make sure you kill everyone of them.
YEA!!!
..... Who are you talking about? Alliance Diplomat, Recruiter |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Exhale.
135
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Posted - 2012.07.05 12:14:00 -
[60] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:Gibbo3771 wrote:If you didnt care so much about a stupid killmail you would be happy but nah, all about the KMs.
Thats why you bring 150 people to fight 50 people, just to make sure you kill everyone of them. YEA!!! ..... Who are you talking about?
Must be a bad 0.0 memory from Gibbo.
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