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Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
334
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Posted - 2012.07.01 01:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
They are under a massive amount of pressure casuing them stress, they want to win for themselves and for their gang for future gangs etc.
Internet Spaceships is a serious busniess and loosing them for other people is not taken lightly. http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Smabs
Higher Than Everest BricK sQuAD.
56
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Posted - 2012.07.01 03:14:00 -
[32] - Quote
An FC starts out friendly.
But then it starts. At first people will as 'is there a fleet up' when a single incursus comes by a system. Then they will ask where the fleet is when it's been clearly stated in the fleet description. Then they won't have comms or a mic. They will be incapable of reporting intel with numbers and system names. People will bring the wrong ships. People will have horrendous fittings despite there being standardised fleet ships.
After all that the FC will get shouted at for losing a gang.
And then they become insane. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
188
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Posted - 2012.07.01 10:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
FC is the leader of the fleet ... hes there to do a very specific job as you as a fleetmember should be too.
He aint there to cuddle you and your "unique snowflake" ego ... You can be all nice untill something goes wrong .. then its plain cold businesstime.
Some people just cant handle taking orders and listening to a commaning tone of voice. The problem aint in the FCs being all mean .. its in you being a ***** and unfit to follow orders without bursting to tears about not being individually asked in a kind fashion. |
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
10
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Posted - 2012.07.01 13:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
My first experience of FC'ing was taking a bunch of players who normally did industry and missions out on a lowsec roam. I specified small ships - nothing bigger than cruiser sized and no expensive stuff as it was supposed to be just a learning experience.
I had read up on FC role and had a pre flight check list, the usual stuff - know your ranges, set your orbit range, ammo and drones, paste etc..
So, we had about ten guys, mostly in t1 frigates and me in a cheap fit thorax.
I struggled to stay calm in the ensuing chaos as half my guys didn't have voice comms and the ones who did wouldn't shut up, people jumping gates without being told, or aligning to the wrong gate and we had to wait for them to catch up etc..... It also didn't help that I was also dual boxing with a forward scout.
BUT, even though we all got killed after an hour or so of roaming and getting a few cheap ass kills - It was fun!
I guess my point is that if you stop enjoying being an FC then it's time to stop. It IS only a game after all. My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :) |
StonerPhReaK
Galactic Supernova Federation
66
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Posted - 2012.07.01 14:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
Most FC's dont just "play" eve. For them EvE is REAL!.
Outside of FC'ing the same cats that are all OMFG DO NOT BUMP THE TITAN! are pretty chill.
Never take anything to heart. Know that under stress anyone will nerdrage. Most of all remember to have fun, Because it is just a game. Please do not point out alt-posting, CCP considers that trolling and will take action. |
Almity
Imperial Outlaws
12
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Posted - 2012.07.02 00:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Almity, on the Amarr side is a great FC IMO and extremely friendly to boot.
AWWWWW that's so nice of you!
|
Dood Maker
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
2
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Posted - 2012.07.02 12:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dark Pangolin wrote:FCs can be friendly if they fly in relatively small fleets (10-15) of people they have been flying with for a while, who know what to do and how to do it. Usually most FCs burn out (I did) after while mostly because if you become known as "the FC" every time you log on all you hear is "fleet?...are you doing a fleet?" and you can;t always dedicate 3 hours to EVE...
Anyway tehre are friendly FCs they just get cranky when they have to repeat themselves over and over on the basics...I only remember losing my temper once though...and I never asked anyone to post in fleet :)
A very good point.
I must add that because you are a friendly FC most want to fly with you and will add you to their friends list allot faster then the idiot that just shouts at them.
I think corp ceo's or senior players in corps need to have a rule that if you in a alliance of FW that before you join a fleet you need to have done a basic Fleet coms and role course that will be given to the newer players. (Myself and a mate got this done to us when we were 3days old and it has for ever helped me)
If I fc im always nice and explain things to people that dont know things and I dont really mind the odd noob questions but when its time to get the party started and you holding on the gate waiting for the others to jump to you and you have a new player jump the gate when you asked him to warp to it only or then ask stupid questions I want to freak out. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1859
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Posted - 2012.07.02 14:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
Bad players who do stupid stuff and lose their ships inevitably blame the FC. Eventually this wears down the FC and the bitterness becomes permanent. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Dervinus
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
48
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Posted - 2012.07.02 17:43:00 -
[39] - Quote
You guys need to see Elise Randolph in action. Dude is so chill you would think he was in a coma while FCing. Does everything with a calm, nonchalant voice while at the same time always being in absolute control. I guess thats what comes with experience and taking pleasure in actually playing Eve rather than just being an angry bittervet. THE DOVITANI FOR CSM |
Smegma Cheesedog
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2012.07.02 20:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
Only the FCs that are worm beyotches IRL like Damar and Gunnyt |
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StoneCold
Praetorian Cannibals
20
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Posted - 2012.07.03 08:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
tl:dr
Imo a FC with the "aura of rage" is a good fc. (Most or at least some) People will focus their thing between the ears towards whats going on just for not getting called out in "public". Also the learning effect is better (i thank every beeing in eve that i never got raged by shadoo - though it was fun by a non-targeted-by-rage-perspecitve).
Also: If a gang gets melted there are (gang -fc -scouts(maybe)) = ppl raging at (fc + scouts (maybe)). Even if it-¦s only a videogame (lol, someone still claiming that?) there-¦s a HUGE weight on the FC shoulders.
EDIT: and ofc raging fcs can be very entertaining (and i m pretty sure shadoo used this also for sidekicks and comedy to keep peeps entertained while our pods slowly turned blue). |
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
160
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Posted - 2012.07.03 08:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
StoneCold wrote:Also the learning effect is better (i thank every beeing in eve that i never got raged by shadoo - though it was fun by a non-targeted-by-rage-perspecitve). Shadoo is one of the most chill FCs that i've flown with. You (the whole fleet) has to do really stupid things, to get him raging like in the famous armor hac recording. |
StoneCold
Praetorian Cannibals
20
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Posted - 2012.07.03 08:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
My Shadoo-experience lies a couple years back. Maybe he turned old :P. |
Alhena Arvo
Interstellar H00kers
7
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Posted - 2012.07.03 14:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
Well.. FC should be a good commander. It's first. Everything else - is secondary importance. Anyway, we all know that all make mistakes, commanders and pilots. In my opinion, only FC who can control their emotions in any situation can be really great FC. |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
84
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Posted - 2012.07.03 14:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Let me tell you about how friendly Elise Randolph is. Despite being one of the prime cat herders in PL for nearly 2 years I'm pretty sure he's only ever not been nice once. And it took a major fuckup to anger him, and it lasted it whole 2-3 minutes after which he apologized. CAUTION
SNIGGS |
Noisrevbus
156
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Posted - 2012.07.03 16:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
Hi,
I usually stick to the Ships & Modules forum but this thread peaked my interest. It brought up something we recently discussed over there regarding ships in fleets. I'd like to give you another perspective on the whole thing:
I belive many of the FC's plights appear as a result of the organisation scale-up tools and how powerful they are in EVE. It doesn't matter wether you run a 10-man gang or a 100-man gang, many of them still rely on a single FC doing everything by himself. In the same way many corporations are run similarily. That is done because it can be done. The tools the game provide are simply so powerful that we don't run into the inevitable speed bumps early enough. Most fleets still follow the same structure of primaries regardless of size.
It's not until you hit the modern coalition scales that you begin to see things such as "subcap liutenant", defensive FC's relaying "how we are holding up", "anchors" or "bomber wings" appear, and then only among the best and brightest. Even they tend to fall back on social hierarchy rather than organised hierarchy at times, such when an FC is killed: few groups seem to have seconds set or maintained and it usually reverts back to a small group of senior members sorting it out per stature or whoever yell the loudest after a short stint of confusion.
The tools are afterall there. Coms being cluttered or people yelling "battlecoms" is usually just an example of poor organisation when you have features like talk-power and multiple channel seeds on coms. It's a question of the FC not operating with the right tools as the alliance lack the necessary organisation, being allowed to grow quite uncontrollable, and his fleet not being dimensioned for it.
Leading seasoned players is obviously easier than inexperienced players, but at the end of the day there are plenty of things you can do that save you from the plights of cluttering and having to be a dong. |
Roosterton
Eternal Frontier The-Machine
355
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 22:33:00 -
[47] - Quote
Quote:people yelling "battlecoms"
But "battlecoms" sounds so cool. |
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
62
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Posted - 2012.07.05 02:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
Almost all the good FC's I have had the privilege of flying with have had a certain presents about them. Friendly for the most part, but all have the potential of getting annoyed at times.
Things about most is, they are focused, calculating, and fast effective thinkers. One I remember fondly was a guy called Plague black, (I'm unfortunately fighting against him, but flown in many many of his fleets) This guy had a certain mastery. He could pick apart much larger fleets on a regular basis. I miss em. Never really saw the guy angry, even once. |
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
24
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Posted - 2012.07.05 02:45:00 -
[49] - Quote
eddie valvetino wrote: 4. Thinking for yourself (grunts are not meant to do this)
The root of the problem right here. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven. |
GavinGoodrich
State Protectorate Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2012.07.05 05:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
We love you ******* to death but our train of thought goes out the window most of the time when a random guy comes on going "HEY GUYS what are we in, where are we" when 9 times out of 10 I've got that typed out in the advert/MOTD for them to READ, but people keep treating it like a party instead. I love like 99% of the dudes I fly with, but jesus christ you can't repeat **** like that 30+ times every night |
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Shang Fei
The Illuminatii Mildly Intoxicated
23
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Posted - 2012.07.05 07:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nope :D |
XNordak BalremX
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.07.05 11:47:00 -
[52] - Quote
Funny **** |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
66
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Posted - 2012.07.05 12:12:00 -
[53] - Quote
*Noob theory crafting here, bullshit might be abundant.*
I think people should use more officers and sergents, decentralizing a part of the FC's portfolio.
Sergants take care of fits are correct, have private comms with their squad, on whisper channel with FC etc.
Officers prepare intel, organize the sergents, prep the fleet etc.
Ofcourse good fc's burnout if they have to:
assemble fleet check fleet order fleet consider tactical issues consider strategic issues etc.
No real life military commander has direct control of each trooper. If you guys have a good FC, make sure to have people to help out where they can.
Let me also note, that from irl experience, good leaders are often competent but perfectionists. they tend to want to control every asepct, not knowing how fast they will burnout themselves. Often it is up to a group of managers to assure that the leader does not have too many tasks.
Create FC groups, assign sub-commanders, fleet checkers, scout groups, intel groups what not and I think the good FC's might not burn out so fast. Same applies to CEO's. "Playing" large corps in EVE is such a job that real management issues and considerations should be used. Do it LEAN! |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
211
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Posted - 2012.07.05 12:38:00 -
[54] - Quote
Noisrevbus wrote:Hi,
I usually stick to the Ships & Modules forum but this thread peaked my interest. It brought up something we recently discussed over there regarding ships in fleets. I'd like to give you another perspective on the whole thing:
I belive many of the FC's plights appear as a result of the organisation scale-up tools and how powerful they are in EVE. It doesn't matter wether you run a 10-man gang or a 100-man gang, many of them still rely on a single FC doing everything by himself. In the same way many corporations are run similarily. That is done because it can be done. The tools the game provide are simply so powerful that we don't run into the inevitable speed bumps early enough. Most fleets still follow the same structure of primaries regardless of size.
It's not until you hit the modern coalition scales that you begin to see delegation such as "subcap liutenant", defensive FC's relaying "how we are holding up", "anchors" or "bomber wings" appear, and then only among the best and brightest. Even they tend to fall back on social hierarchy rather than organised hierarchy at times, such when an FC is killed: few groups seem to have seconds set or maintained and it usually reverts back to a small group of senior members sorting it out per stature or whoever yell the loudest after a short stint of confusion.
The tools are afterall there. Coms being cluttered or people yelling "battlecoms" is usually just an example of poor organisation when you have features like talk-power and multiple channel seeds on coms. It's a question of the FC not operating with the right tools as the alliance lack the necessary organisation, being allowed to grow quite uncontrollable, and his fleet not being dimensioned for it. It's insanely uncommon to see well organised corporations and fleets.
Leading seasoned players is obviously easier than inexperienced players, but at the end of the day there are plenty of things you can do that save you from the plights of cluttering and having to be a dong.
Battlecomms are for tryhard nerds that take the game way too seriously. In my experience, fleets that seem poorly organized also lack the appropriate pony soundboards.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
March rabbit
Gansa. Legion of xXDEATHXx
210
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 13:08:00 -
[55] - Quote
i know quite some good and friendly FC's. One of them is PrimeKiller. Funny british person. I very recommend him. |
eddie valvetino
Snuff Box
11
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Posted - 2012.07.05 13:19:00 -
[56] - Quote
GavinGoodrich wrote:We love you ******* to death but our train of thought goes out the window most of the time when a random guy comes on going "HEY GUYS what are we in, where are we" when 9 times out of 10 I've got that typed out in the advert/MOTD for them to READ, but people keep treating it like a party instead. I love like 99% of the dudes I fly with, but jesus christ you can't repeat **** like that 30+ times every night
Hey Gavin
what you said meight, spot on...
Back in Bi-Polar Bears, ops would be posted, by mail, by fourm and the corp calender... oh and the "intel" channel MOTD. In detail, often with a full breifing on goals, tactics intel and required ships, numbers and fits. Still you can be certain, some guy would pop on, 30 seconds before the op and say "sorry, i'm late.. where are we and what are we in?"
good greif |
BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
104
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 13:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Also, need to point out there is a difference in FCing militia fleets rather then corp fleets.
I havent met a nice militia FC ever, without some type of raging.
Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |
Nav illus
Pallas Krypteia
3
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Posted - 2012.07.06 05:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
In answer ot the OP's question: Go run a fleet. Just grab 10+ corp mates, load'em up for pvp and head for null. Then, like a masochist, do it again. And again... Once you've done that, come on back here and tell us if a good fc should be friendly.
G/L |
Jelizza Arlath
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.07.06 11:03:00 -
[59] - Quote
Leading a group of people on the internet, whether it's EVE or any other MMO is the most unappreciated and thankless roles you can put yourself in.
Years ago when Everquest 1 was pretty much the only MMORPG on the market (except UO of course) a friend of mine, after attempting to lead raids, told me....
"Leading raids is like leading a bunch of ******** children through a mall, and even though they are, presumably, grown up people you constantly have to tell them; Don't go there! Stay near the rest! Where did he go? Everyone together please! Don't touch that! Stop running around!"
And I completely agree with her. I've led some raids, but just like alot of people who have attempted it, I just gave up on it. Being friendly only gets you so far, and when there is alot of strangers involved you learn just how quickly "being nice" will fall short. The result is leading by being formal, strict, jaded, cynical and to those that don't really know you, an *******. I've booted quite alot of people from raids simply because I'm too sick of repeating the obvious to grown ups who should be at least partially educated. If you can't follow simple instructions such as "Let the dedicated puller do the pulling" then you get a boot up your arse and a quick /kick from raid.
These days I limit myself to leading small teams. Either small fleets with friends and corps, or single groups of guildies and friends (in other MMO's). I'm thoroughly fed up with the neverending stream of malfunctioning DNA that not only manages to survive birth, but also seems able to grown arms, legs AND get on the internet.
Then again, maybe I've become too jaded and bitter from years of running PuG's in online games.
Can FC's be friendly? Sure they can... as long as it's a smaller fleet and the people they are leading know their FC. But once you add the stranger-variable into the fleet, the only hope they are left with is being a harsh bastard, or see their fleet whittle away.
Large groups of humans need to be treated like cattle. Patting them on the back doesn't get them moving. Lashing a whip across their backs do. |
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
12
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Posted - 2012.07.06 11:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
[quote=Can FC's be friendly? Sure they can... as long as it's a smaller fleet and the people they are leading know their FC. But once you add the stranger-variable into the fleet, the only hope they are left with is being a harsh bastard, or see their fleet whittle away.
Large groups of humans need to be treated like cattle. Patting them on the back doesn't get them moving. Lashing a whip across their backs do.[/quote]
This pretty much says it all. My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :) |
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