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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.26 08:53:00 -
[31]
yes your zelot fit sucks.
This is what I use when I fly Amarr (which is never on this character) -
3x HS
2x CPR
1x TE (this can be changed for whatever you feel you need, another CPR for more cap and so on)
1x DCU
-
1x 10mn MWD
1x SB
1x TC
--
5x HBL
--
2x Locus rigs
its cap stable with the MWD off - and lasts 1 and 1/2 mins or so with the mwd on - and to be honest, you should only have to hit that MWD once in any fight. If you really want a buffer - then fit trimarks in the rigs and change that last low slot to a TE.
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The Diemost is a fun gank ship, but it does not do that well and to be honest Gallente pilots have a lot to complain about with regards to blasters.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.02.26 17:34:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Stuart Price
The Vigilant is everything the Deimos should have been :(
The interesting thing here is people usually perceive the deimos as subpar, useless and such, yet the vigilant shares exactly the same (perceived) weaknesses / problems, as in being instant primary, having to engage in web/scram range etc.
Either both of them are fine, or they are both useless.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.26 17:40:00 -
[33]
Both have the problem of needing to engage in scram/web range. However the vigilant actually has real advantages compared to a brutix.
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Grut
The Protei
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Posted - 2010.02.26 18:11:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Stuart Price
The Vigilant is everything the Deimos should have been :(
The interesting thing here is people usually perceive the deimos as subpar, useless and such, yet the vigilant shares exactly the same (perceived) weaknesses / problems, as in being instant primary, having to engage in web/scram range etc.
Either both of them are fine, or they are both useless.
Not at all.
Looking at the vigilant;
- 5/4/6 slot layout - pretty much optimal for armour tanking.
- webbie strength bonus - awesome for a blasterboat for range control & tracking.
- enough grid / cpu to fit a full rack of neutrons, mwd & 1600rt with 1 acr.
- Nice DPS
Looking at the diemos
- 6/3/6 - wasted highslot & lack of mids.
- No real defining bonus mwd + falloff are meh
- loltastic grid, requires electrons to tank.
- Good dps gank rigged, any kind of tank and you should have brough a zealot.
Yes the Vigilant may not be cost effective but its a good blasterboat. A diemos is not cost effective AND its not a good blasterboat.
Kinsy > deadman you
there?
Kinsy > are either of us in
pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless
[ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.26 18:55:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Grut
Yes the Vigilant may not be cost effective but its a good blasterboat. A diemos is not cost effective AND its not a good blasterboat.
Amen.
Also the problem with the Diemost are not blasters, it is the ship concept itself. It simply does no offer anything that making it worth the price tag at close range, this didn't change in the last 4 years.
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Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente
Lone Star Joint Venture
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.02.26 19:11:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Atius Tirawa
yes your zelot fit sucks.
This is what I use when I fly Amarr (which is never on this character) -
3x HS
2x CPR
1x TE (this can be changed for whatever you feel you need, another CPR for more cap and so on)
1x DCU
-
1x 10mn MWD
1x SB
1x TC
--
5x HBL
--
2x Locus rigs
its cap stable with the MWD off - and lasts 1 and 1/2 mins or so with the mwd on - and to be honest, you should only have to hit that MWD once in any fight. If you really want a buffer - then fit trimarks in the rigs and change that last low slot to a TE.
-----
The Diemost is a fun gank ship, but it does not do that well and to be honest Gallente pilots have a lot to complain about with regards to blasters.
Well at first, how are you gonna fit a Drone Control Unit to a zealot? And second, that fit aint much good.
[Zealot, Sniper]
Power Diagnostic System II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M
Heavy Beam Laser II, Aurora M
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
18mins of cap without mwd which is plenty.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.02.26 20:45:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 26/02/2010 20:49:40
Originally by: Grut
Looking at the vigilant;
- 5/4/6 slot layout - pretty much optimal for armour tanking.
- webbie strength bonus - awesome for a blasterboat for range control & tracking.
- enough grid / cpu to fit a full rack of neutrons, mwd & 1600rt with 1 acr.
- Nice DPS
Yes, it got a web strength bonus, but thats pretty much it. The 1600mm plate fit is not significantly better than a triple trimarked 800mm fit anyway, plus you can have a cap injector that way to help out against the neuts that are so popular these days. A 2nd web might look good on paper, but in reality a single 90% web has already plenty of stopping power.
Originally by: Grut
Looking at the diemos
- 6/3/6 - wasted highslot & lack of mids.
- No real defining bonus mwd + falloff are meh
- loltastic grid, requires electrons to tank.
- Good dps gank rigged, any kind of tank and you should have brough a zealot.
That "wasted" highslot can fit a small remote repper, small neut, or some other module you deem useful. Neutron gank setup fits just fine with 800mm plates and ACR, and isnt as clumsy.
Apart from the web strength (which the deimos will never have, and is pretty much the worst idea on CCPs part ever to give a ship intended for pvp btw) there isnt really a huge difference in boni, except the deimos has better cap recharge.
And then there are the lovely t2 resists, which make remote repping a lot more effective.
Given the vigilant hull is twice as expensive, and both will be the first to die, my point still stands, there is no clear-cut reason to take either of them over a Brutix, except for camping a kickout station maybe.
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Grut
The Protei
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Posted - 2010.02.26 21:37:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Yes, it got a web strength bonus, but thats pretty much it. The 1600mm plate fit is not significantly better than a triple trimarked 800mm fit anyway, plus you can have a cap injector that way to help out against the neuts that are so popular these days. A 2nd web might look good on paper, but in reality a single 90% web has already plenty of stopping power.
That "wasted" highslot can fit a small remote repper, small neut, or some other module you deem useful. Neutron gank setup fits just fine with 800mm plates and ACR, and isnt as clumsy.
Apart from the web strength (which the deimos will never have, and is pretty much the worst idea on CCPs part ever to give a ship intended for pvp btw) there isnt really a huge difference in boni, except the deimos has better cap recharge.
And then there are the lovely t2 resists, which make remote repping a lot more effective.
Given the vigilant hull is twice as expensive, and both will be the first to die, my point still stands, there is no clear-cut reason to take either of them over a Brutix, except for camping a kickout station maybe.
Pretty poor arguments.
A deimos lacks range control without the webbie, and cap stability as it can't fit a mid nos or cap booster. Small armour rep? wtf.
A Vigilant does the same dps as a brutix, is faster, aligns quicker, can totally dictate range, has a cap booster, gets a better tank with slaves, smaller siggy so takes less damage.
A brutix is ofc far cheaper.
Is the vigileant better in all situations? no. Is it better in some situations? yes. Is it a good ship for people with to much isk? sure.
Kinsy > deadman you
there?
Kinsy > are either of us in
pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless
[ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2010.02.26 21:47:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Bronson Hughes
...
If blasters were 'more useful' it would still be 100m ship in scram range and brutix would still do the same job for 100m less.
Unlike a blaster brutix a Deimos still does useful damage outside outside scram range, the falloff bonus is pretty decent.
--
081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner
blog |
The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.26 21:48:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Apart from the web strength (which any blaster ship should have, and is pretty much the best idea on CCPs part ever to give a ship intended for close range pvp btw) there isn't really a huge difference in bonuses, except the deimost has better cap recharge.
I fixed this for you.
It's possible that if a blaster ship has a useful web that provides the ability to hold a target at the preferred range and get around tracking issues is considerable better at blaster PVP than a blaster ship that doesn't got this ability's.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.26 22:22:00 -
[41]
Quote:
boni
Stop making up words, everytime someone writes boni or bonii god kills a kitten, and so do i.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.02.26 22:26:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Grut
A deimos lacks range control without the webbie, and cap stability as it can't fit a mid nos or cap booster. Small armour rep? wtf.
Who said anything about flying a deimos without web?
Cap stability is a non-issue even without nos or cap booster (mwd cap bonus), if you want safety against neuts fit a small nos instead of a small repper (which is kinda handy to rep up fleetmates when you have no npc stations around).
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.02.26 22:28:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote:
boni
Stop making up words, everytime someone writes boni or bonii god kills a kitten, and so do i.
I, too, kill a kitten. So make that three kittens.
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The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.02.26 23:47:00 -
[44]
Edited by: The Djego on 26/02/2010 23:47:34
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: The Djego
I fixed this for you.
It's possible that if a blaster ship has a useful web that provides the ability to hold a target at the preferred range and get around tracking issues is considerable better at blaster PVP than a blaster ship that doesn't got this ability's.
No, you broke it. I can see people still shedding tears and wanting the days of OP webs back instead of adapting, it doesnt make it a good idea though.
Webs got nerfed for good reason, and no, even blaster boats are not supposed to win automatically inside their optimal range.
Yeah right, I to remember the tons of whining posts about OP blaster PVP that did lead to the QR nerf. Eve was full of plated point blank ships back in this days and anybody complained about them. I still wonder what this nano was anybody was talking about since it was this rare and limited in use that nobody used it compared to the massive amount of blaster ships owning anything since anybody was fitted to fight at point blank with non blaster ships. 
Also I'm really interested in this instant win thing, this does sound very overpowered, like the target itself deals zero DPS, got zero tank and zero EHP in blaster optimal and getting into range is easy since any other ship is slower, plus got a lot less range.
You really should write a thread about this, telling them all how good a instant win blaster ship is. 
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Onin Ra
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.27 00:43:00 -
[45]
if one more person writes "boni" or "rani" im gonna kill him.
---
First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
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Noisrevbus
Caldari
Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2010.02.27 03:13:00 -
[46]
A common denominator of the problems shared by the Cruiser sized Hybrid platforms and their weapon systems is that neither of them have the fitting options to capitalize on their bonuses...
... or are otherwise impaired to reap full effect from their ship bonuses, in how they are incompatible with the weapon system itself.
Downgrading tiers within your weapon class tend to affect range bonuses far more than other bonuses, as your bonuses stack against the comparison of the top tier weapon and the tier you are limited to.
The potentially half-decent 1600mm Blaster Deimos is forced to downgrade to Electrons and can't fill it's last highslot with a medium neut. It also can't really fit Rails with much options, and when it does it's falloff bonus is worthless, while with Blasters it remains fairly insignificant. The same goes for the Eagle, a double range bonus without much room to capitalize on it, while it has horrible fitting options. As a Sniper you are forced to choose between damage @ 100 optimals and/or giving up your range advantage. As a Blaster boat it will deal less damage with Blasters than an unbonused weapon system at common point ranges despite a double range bonus. You might as well fit lasers to it, and have optimal out to point range.
I know people in EVE are very touchy when it comes to balancing into similarities, they don't want everything to be "the same". Personally, i've always belived that similar is not the same, and that something can maintain a nische and flavour even if you broaden it's scope. In terms of engagement range, the changes there over the past year, or year and a half, has proven combat much more flexible and fluid with less extremes. Something i belive alot of people today consider fun. With that, i belive Blasters could get a touch up in both range and tracking. Range to tweak it into the current playing field and engagement ranges and tracking to maintain somewhat of a nische, for what is still a short-ranged weapon.
Blasters will still be the closest range weapon type, but i belive allowing the Hybrid ships with range bonuses to capitalize on them will weigh in better than ripping everything up and turning blasters into an extreme short range - high damage weapon system. That either makes or breaks, which won't change much of the current situation. With a slight touch up, they will still be the shortest unbonsed system. Yet if the Eagle could have an optimal up towards 25km and the Deimos getting a bit improved performance between optimal + falloff, in a mobile 25km + option to swoop in for high damage role - with slightly better tracking, they could be half decent ships. Especially if that involves being able to fit their weapon size of choice and fill their slots without stacking fitting mods, in both their short range and long range roles.
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Grut
The Protei
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Posted - 2010.02.27 09:16:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Noisrevbus
Blasters will still be the closest range weapon type, but i belive allowing the Hybrid ships with range bonuses to capitalize on them will weigh in better than ripping everything up and turning blasters into an extreme short range - high damage weapon system. That either makes or breaks, which won't change much of the current situation. With a slight touch up, they will still be the shortest unbonsed system. Yet if the Eagle could have an optimal up towards 25km and the Deimos getting a bit improved performance between optimal + falloff, in a mobile 25km + option to swoop in for high damage role - with slightly better tracking, they could be half decent ships. Especially if that involves being able to fit their weapon size of choice and fill their slots without stacking fitting mods, in both their short range and long range roles.
I don't disagree with you but by upping the range, blasters move into AC land, which isn't good.
Honestly an extra 10-15% damage on mediums and large followed by sorting out the hulls that just plain suck would be all thats required to give them enough of a damage difference from lasers/acs to make them worthwhile. 15% would give a shieldgank brutix 960 dps, big enough to be worth the travel time, and force ac/laser boats to kite.
On a wider note having base gun ranges as blasters/acs/lasers/lasers/acs/rails kind of messes of gal/caldari. If rails were lower range / higher dps then lasers gal would have a solid option as fights got bigger & caldari gunboats wouldnt suck asmuch.
Kinsy > deadman you
there?
Kinsy > are either of us in
pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless
[ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
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