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Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
266
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Posted - 2012.06.30 18:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I'm a Minmatar capsuleer in a Corporation that is based in Amarr space.
Because I was a newbie and didn't know better, I flew a lot of missions for Minmatar against Amarr prior to joining this Corporation, so my Amarr standing is horrible. So I did whatever I could and did as many missions for Amarr I could to get their Storyline missions (never did anything against Minmatar, always declined those missions) so after a while I was neutral to Amarr.
However, I then noticed my Minmatar standing had plummeted! So I did a lot of missions for Minmatar to get their storyline missions.
Now my standing with both factions is neutral/bad. I learnt that is is because Storyline missions have a negative impact towards the enemy faction, so when working with Amarr I lowered my Minmatar standing without knowing it (and vice versa).
So now I'm worried I might have screwed the pooch on this one.... Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1852
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Posted - 2012.06.30 18:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's possible, but it involves a TON of going back and forth between the two factions. If you do a few missions for one and then go back to the other for a few missions, you can slowly grind them both up. Look up the "Faction Standings Repair Plan" for more details (just Google it). |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
267
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Posted - 2012.06.30 18:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Seems like the negative have more effect than the positive.
I started out with good standing with Minmatar and so-so with Amarr.
Now I'm down to so-so with both factions. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
539
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Posted - 2012.06.30 19:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Seems like the negative have more effect than the positive.
I started out with good standing with Minmatar and so-so with Amarr.
Now I'm down to so-so with both factions.
The negative is more pronounced when you have good standings and less so when it's bad. Positive standings are vice versa; larger gains when you have poor standings and smaller when they are more positive. This is because all gains/losses are based on the difference between current and 10.00. So while it's possible to get up to something like +6 with all empire factions, that's about where it tops out.
DMC should be along sometime to explain the details but there's the basic outline. |
Shaotuk
Sin City Enterprises
5
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Posted - 2012.06.30 19:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
You'll have to go back and forth between the two.
Decline any faction missions.
Once at a decent level, don't accept any storyline missions. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
392
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Posted - 2012.07.01 02:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Do the epic arcs once every 3 months. They have no opposing faction penalty. In theory, you can get both factions as high as you want that way.
Also, train Connections lvl 5. Remap charisma. Leadership is good for you, be a leader. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3337
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Posted - 2012.07.02 07:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Along with what everyone else has said, don't forget to train up Diplomacy skill to raise your current negative standings.
Also it doesn't really take that long to repair negative standings.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Faction_Standing_Repair_Plan |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
800
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Posted - 2012.07.02 10:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Doing storylines isn't the problem. You can't drop below -5.0 from doing just storylines alone.
The problem is destroying ships belonging to a player faction, or worse, destroying their structures.
So decline all missions, even storylines, that require you to shoot player faction stuff. You can easily identify these by the faction icon in mission reports (no faction icon means there will be no faction loss).
I do a lot of missions for Caldari and Amarr, including the Caldari epic arc, so the Gallente and Minmatar don't especially appreciate me. To keep my Gallente and Minmatar standing passable (I aim for above -2 though above -5 is adequate), I do storyline missions for Sisters of EVE. The Minmatar aren't as close to SoE as they are to Gallente, so it takes a lot of missions to fix that, but I've still managed to remain above -2.
The good point of SoE is that they don't lower Caldari and Amarr as much as other NPC corps. And since they are their own faction, storylines are always for SoE, so standing goes up fast with them, allowing you to do higher level missions sooner. |
Huttan Funaila
222 EVE
3
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Posted - 2012.07.02 22:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
As long as your standing with Amarr/Minmatar are above -2, you can do the Sisters of EVE epic arc (The Blood Stained Stars). Towards the end you chose one faction and that one goes up by 7% with no down for opposite factions. You can only do it every 3 months, and it is intended for newbie pilots flying frigates and destroyers. This link appears in one of the pages linked in the "faction repair guide" but might get lost among all the stuff to read. As befits a series of missions to help newbie pilots learn things, it will take you all over high sec space.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Blood-Stained_Stars
long walkthrough: http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/jowen/SOE_Epic_Arc_guide_by_Jowen_Datloran_v0.95.pdf
If you've downloaded the guide from isktheguide.com, on pages 186-187, there is a table that shows which factions go up/down when you raise other factions. So for example, if your faction goes up with Amarr by +1, it also goes up with Caldari by +.5, down with Gallente by .2 and down with Minmatar by .5. |
Gokkehest
0
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Posted - 2012.07.03 04:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
This was a nice read.
And Huttan thanks for the nice pdf, will sure use it.
+1 :) |
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Zathryon
Amarr General Drilling and Construction
14
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Posted - 2012.07.03 15:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
die heretic slave lover! |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
170
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Posted - 2012.07.03 17:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Faction repair plan for starters. Next, unless you love lazors, screw Amarr. Nothing fun in their space; even the COSMOS systems are boring. Move to Minnie space, join Minnie FW, do Minnie COSMOS missions, fly with awesome folks, and other really kewl stuff. |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
157
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Posted - 2012.07.05 19:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm in the exact same boat as you. (Minnie pilot now living in Amarr space)
I merely have one corporation in each region repped up to levels sufficient to my needs (perfect refining, jump clones). Even if my faction standings go down, my corp standings won't drop. As long as I keep myself above -2 (to avoid being shot at) I still maintain my benefits.
Granted, that won't help you if you need faction standings rather than just NPC corp standings...but there is a lot you can get done with just corp standings without worrying too much about faction, IMO.
In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
281
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Posted - 2012.07.07 15:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Katja Faith wrote:Faction repair plan for starters. Next, unless you love lazors, screw Amarr. Nothing fun in their space; even the COSMOS systems are boring. Move to Minnie space, join Minnie FW, do Minnie COSMOS missions, fly with awesome folks, and other really kewl stuff.
Well, most in my corp are IRL friends, so... yeah. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
118
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Posted - 2012.07.07 16:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Just pick sides. You're already picking sides against Angel Cartel and Sansha/Blood, who you could also get missions from. The inconveniences associated with picking sides are that you can't loiter in half of highsec: so no incursions, events, missions there. And even then, Diplomacy V goes a long, long way. The conveniences associated with picking sides are that you never have to bother 'balancing' your standings, that you can decline far fewer missions, that you can rapidly rise in standing with your favored side and unlock L4s/clones/epics/etc. everywhere in their space - rather than rise more slowly because you keep hitting yourself with negative derived standings. Everything is easier and better and faster if you pick sides - it's not just something that foolish rookies do, before they wise up. Additionally, if you pick sides, then you won't mind the primary penalty from FW (which is that normal FW activities will cause half of highsec to hate you) and you can make money in a relatively exciting environment while getting the largest standing gains in the game: the second promotion is already competitive with SoE's boost, with no social skills, with the result at the end that I could do L4s for any Amarr/Caldari corporation, without any of the grinding that you're wanting to do. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
281
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Posted - 2012.07.07 16:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
If it was Gallente vs. Caldari I wouldn't be in this conundrum. But Amarr vs. Minmatar presents a problem because I love Minmatar, but to be with my Corp I have to be on Amarr's good side. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
346
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Posted - 2012.07.07 19:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Started as Gallente, moved to Amarr with old corp, now back in Gallente space, but at - 3.01 with them, so can only get level one missions with Gallente faction. Would simply take to long to grind my way back up, would also negatively affect my Caldari standings, so have compromised by doing Caldaroi missions in Gallante space. Heck, if only I could simply buy good Gallente standings. Oh well. You want fries with that? |
Revenald Blackthorne
S.I.D.H.E. Corporation LLIC
0
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Posted - 2012.07.08 18:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Do the epic arcs once every 3 months. They have no opposing faction penalty. In theory, you can get both factions as high as you want that way.
Empire EPIC arcs - don't they involve killing NPCs in opposing factions? For example, Caldari Epic involves killing Gallente ships? Wouldn't this damage yr standing with Gallente anyway, even without the "usual" derived standing hit in Storylines?
Huttan Funaila wrote:If you've downloaded the guide from isktheguide.com, on pages 186-187, there is a table that shows which factions go up/down when you raise other factions. So for example, if your faction goes up with Amarr by +1, it also goes up with Caldari by +.5, down with Gallente by .2 and down with Minmatar by .5.
I find that my derived standings loss versus rival empires actually goes higher as my standing increases, while the standing gains to friendly declines. Thus, +1 Amarr results in only +0.3 Caldari, and loss of -0.7 vs Minmatar and -0.3 vs Gallente.
By the way, losing almost 115% of my Minmatar Standing increase in derived standing loss to Ammatar. Both are somewhat below 5.0, but never seen a derived standing loss GREATER than what was gained. This may be broken, but as it was reported some 4 months ago and still remains, maybe not. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
405
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Posted - 2012.07.08 19:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Revenald Blackthorne wrote:sabre906 wrote:Do the epic arcs once every 3 months. They have no opposing faction penalty. In theory, you can get both factions as high as you want that way. Empire EPIC arcs - don't they involve killing NPCs in opposing factions? For example, Caldari Epic involves killing Gallente ships? Wouldn't this damage yr standing with Gallente anyway, even without the "usual" derived standing hit in Storylines? Huttan Funaila wrote:If you've downloaded the guide from isktheguide.com, on pages 186-187, there is a table that shows which factions go up/down when you raise other factions. So for example, if your faction goes up with Amarr by +1, it also goes up with Caldari by +.5, down with Gallente by .2 and down with Minmatar by .5. I find that my derived standings loss versus rival empires actually goes higher as my standing increases, while the standing gains to friendly declines. Thus, +1 Amarr results in only +0.3 Caldari, and loss of -0.7 vs Minmatar and -0.3 vs Gallente. By the way, losing almost 115% of my Minmatar Standing increase in derived standing loss to Ammatar. Both are somewhat below 5.0, but never seen a derived standing loss GREATER than what was gained. This may be broken, but as it was reported some 4 months ago and still remains, maybe not.
Only 2 missions in some of the arcs (Minmatar/Caldari) have empire rats, and only ships for ~0.01% hit per tick, no misc deadspace objects for ~2.4%. Arcs have no derived hit, as mentioned. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Revenald Blackthorne
S.I.D.H.E. Corporation LLIC
0
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Posted - 2012.07.09 06:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Only 2 missions in some of the arcs (Minmatar/Caldari) have empire rats, and only ships for ~0.01% hit per tick, no misc deadspace objects for ~2.4%. Arcs have no derived hit, as mentioned.
I have avoided running Empire Epics due to this misunderstanding, so am indebted to you for the clarification. Will give them a go (after a thorough read of the walkthrough)
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
411
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Revenald Blackthorne wrote:sabre906 wrote:Only 2 missions in some of the arcs (Minmatar/Caldari) have empire rats, and only ships for ~0.01% hit per tick, no misc deadspace objects for ~2.4%. Arcs have no derived hit, as mentioned. I have avoided running Empire Epics due to this misunderstanding, so am indebted to you for the clarification. Will give them a go (after a thorough read of the walkthrough)
Thinking about it now, there is one rat that counted as misc deadspace object for the large standing hit in the Minmatar arc. It's Ammatar Navy Detective, a frigate, if I remember correctly. It's optional, you don't have to kill it to complete mission. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
162
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Posted - 2012.07.09 14:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:If it was Gallente vs. Caldari I wouldn't be in this conundrum. But Amarr vs. Minmatar presents a problem because I love Minmatar, but to be with my Corp I have to be on Amarr's good side.
If you are in this bind for RP reasons, I can respect that. But speaking pragmatically, anything better than -2 with either side will let you operate in their space. Even if you've dropped yourself down below -2.0, training a few ranks in Diplomacy will get it back up quickly and easily (unless you were really really low).
Unless your corp is trying to get a high sec POS in Amarr space and your low faction with Amarr is dragging the corp average down, low standing shouldn't prevent you from flying with your corp buddies. If you do a single level 1 mission for an Amarr corp, your standing with them (the corp that is) will instantly become positive, even if you have a negative Amarr faction standing...at which point your connections skill (if you have it) will kick in and boost it even further. In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse. |
Revenald Blackthorne
S.I.D.H.E. Corporation LLIC
2
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Posted - 2012.07.10 05:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
Revenald Blackthorne wrote: I find that my derived standings loss versus rival empires actually goes higher as my standing increases, while the standing gains to friendly declines. Thus, +1 Amarr results in only +0.3 Caldari, and loss of -0.7 vs Minmatar and -0.3 vs Gallente.
By the way, losing almost 115% of my Minmatar Standing increase in derived standing loss to Ammatar. Both are somewhat below 5.0, but never seen a derived standing loss GREATER than what was gained. This may be broken, but as it was reported some 4 months ago and still remains, maybe not.
Just ran some quick math on the actual derived standings gains and losses I am seeing, as opposed to that which you would get if you applied the table which CCP shows as "official".
Assuming the same increase for all factions from a storyline, the table implies that you would increase your faction standing (up to a maximum) were you to run storyline missions round-robin through all empires (my focus - Amarr, Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, SoE, Ammatar, Khanid).
In actuality, you would need to run 3 Amarr, 5 Minmatar, 2 Gallente, 2 Caldari, 5 Ammatar and 3 Khanid to be combined with 1 SoE in order to show a consistent increase. Even so, while everyone but Minmatar shows at least an increase of at least 1 storyline gain, the maximum gain from Minmatar is only ~50% of one storyline. Thus, for 5 Minmatar missions, you get an end increase in standing of approximate 1/2 of 1 mission (Caveat - my SoE standing is already greater than 2.5, so no increase from grinding SoE).
The big problem is Ammatar vs. Minmatar, whose standing loss is over 100% of that gained. However, none of the other figures comply with the derived standings table. Making (and staying) friends with everyone is a challenge, and impossible if you rely on the derived standings table as dogma. |
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
10
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Posted - 2012.07.10 14:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Shameless plug: If you go to Ammatar space, or at least the Rens area, you'll find both Amarr & Minmatar agents often in the same system. Might save you a lot of travel time in the long run. |
Twitchy McTwitch
Mjolinar Shipyards
7
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Posted - 2012.07.11 13:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
A little side bar to this whole conversation.
Asking for help from friends will go a long way towards this repair process.
I have not read the faction standing repair plan, so I may end up repeating.
Get friends who can get into level 4 missions - and ask them to START the missions for you, they are nearly always PIRATE ONLY missions, if the person who started them had the CORPORATE standings to run level 4s in the first place.
Do missions and use the share-rewards option (ask them nicely) until you can run those missions yourself.
This way, while you are running the 16 mission series, you won't be told to kill other nations' ships. I know that in a lot of level 2 and 3 missions, I somehow get told to kill Gallente all the time, and I have had to repeat blood-stained stars WAY too many times to repair my gallente standings.
Not a "solution" to the problem, but, might slow down the pain. |
Revenald Blackthorne
S.I.D.H.E. Corporation LLIC
2
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Posted - 2012.07.23 06:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Revenald Blackthorne wrote: By the way, losing almost 115% of my Minmatar Standing increase in derived standing loss to Ammatar. Both are somewhat below 5.0, but never seen a derived standing loss GREATER than what was gained. This may be broken, but as it was reported some 4 months ago and still remains, maybe not.
Just received the following from CCP: "The problem you have described (loss of 115% of Minmatar standing gain in derived Ammatar standing loss) is an intended game feature or function, and not a bug."
Thus, you should never be able to consistently increase Ammatar while increasing Minmatar, as the Ammatar does not have a high enough derived increase to Caldari and Amarr to offset the various derived decreases - unless they add an Ammatar Epic arc. |
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