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Mei guoren
World Miners
3
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Posted - 2011.09.21 05:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm putting together my Manticore, and I'm trying to come up with some good tactics.
From what I understand, a manticore can warp while cloaked, and move while cloaked. I'm not sure if it can afterburn or MWD while cloaked, but I will test it in 12 hours when I have the ability to use my cloak ability. I also understand that I can target at 70km, and my torpedos can only fire from 18km. I plan to test this as well when I can go out and shoot some high sec rats, but it says they move 1.500m p/s, for 6 seconds. That tellsm e 9km, and then the manticore velocity bonus of 100% = 18km.
Anyway, I've seen fits that say a Manticore can torpedo from 70km. I've also read that bombs fire from 30km.
I know if I get targeted I'm basicly dead. I'll add that I realize that bombs can 1 hit most frigs, and retrievers, but I don't really have any intentions to kill random noobs in low sec, or retrievers. Instead, I'd like to develop tactics to kill the better players in null sec / low sec occasionally.
So I'm trying to come up with some tactics. Please review them and tell me if they are possible. I realize this is speculation, and some of you trolls say to just go out and do it and not speculate. The problem is that I have to train skills, and you can't just go out and "do it". I believe knowledge is power, and you can gain that knowledge through mistakes, or studying. I prefer to study.
Tactic 1: Fly to enemy Null sec Syste, warp to 50-60km off station, wait for other stealth bombers to come out, decloak, volley, recloak, warp to safe spot. 1 hit kill on any other cov ops frig?
Tactic 2: Find Hulk, get 60km away, call my friend Alexis who is in a pilgrim, call my friend Zhong in a hound. Both warp in 20km from me so they dont declaok eachother. Have Alexis get 38km away, and tackle/neut, both zhong and I declaok, volley once, recloak. It either dies, or alexis finishes it off with drones?
Tactic 3: Find gate camp: Warp to 100km, move in with Hound, and manticore and select weakest target "advice on which is weakest please?", Volley once from preferably max range "68km?", and warp out asap before the rest can even get to us.
Tactic 4: Find hulk. Put both Hound and Manticore 60ishkm away, and have Alexis in piglrim move to 38km. Then have Fort in a curse warp to alexis, and immediately target, tackel, attack, and neut hulk. Keep Everyone else cloaked. Allow Fort to continue to attack the hulk. Wait for back up. When 2nd ship warps in, tackle with pilgrim, neut, set drones on. If the ship is soloable with pilgrim, keep both bombers cloaked. Any other ships who warp in, decloak bombers, and volley.. hopefully killing them.
I realize if it's a hot drop, were dead, but if it's a couple friends who randomly warp to them, it might work?
What do you guys think? Please don't make this a flame war. |
Zhong Guoren
World Miners
4
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Posted - 2011.09.21 05:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
half of these were my idea! :P |
foksieloy
Rockets ponies and rainbows
14
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Posted - 2011.09.21 05:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mei guoren wrote:I'm not sure if it can afterburn or MWD while cloaked No.
Mei guoren wrote:I'll add that I realize that bombs can 1 hit most frigs They usually can not.
Mei guoren wrote:1 hit kill on any other cov ops frig? 1 hit annoyance on a covops frig. Damage reduction due to sig/speed is so high he won't even notice you are shooting him.
Mei guoren wrote:Find Hulk, then proceed to kill it in a rifter, solo. Fixed this for you. Everything more is overkill and requires no additional tactics.
Mei guoren wrote:Find gate camp: Warp to 100km, move in with Hound, and manticore and select weakest target "advice on which is weakest please?", Volley once from preferably max range "68km?", and warp out asap before the rest can even get to us. Two additions to this train of thought: Accomplish absolutely nothing OR be locked by a dramiel who "magically" appeared next to you/snippah hurricane/zealot and be blown up.
"What do you guys think?" 2/10 the previous troll was better. Still quite funny.
Disclaimer: I do not actually play this game, I just forum warrior. |
Alexis Prey
World Miners
16
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Posted - 2011.09.21 05:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
I love how all I do is tackle in these tactics (>.<); |
Mei guoren
World Miners
11
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Posted - 2011.09.21 05:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:Mei guoren wrote:Find Hulk, then proceed to kill it in a rifter, solo. Fixed this for you. Everything more is overkill and requires no additional tactics.
From what I understand, Hulk has a great ability to tank. I don't think it would be smart to sit there and hack at it with anything. Gives the enemy a chance to organize/help. In and out guarilla tactics is our idea.
Quote:Mei guoren wrote:Find gate camp: Warp to 100km, move in with Hound, and manticore and select weakest target "advice on which is weakest please?", Volley once from preferably max range "68km?", and warp out asap before the rest can even get to us. Two additions to this train of thought: Accomplish absolutely nothing OR be locked by a dramiel who "magically" appeared next to you/snippah hurricane/zealot and be blown up.
Since we're cloaked, I sapose this is something we should watch for. Thank you for the advice. Note to self: Watch for super.. "fast?" dramiels, and huricanes or zealots, or any other sniper ships at gate camp.
Quote: "What do you guys think?" 2/10 the previous troll was better. Still quite funny.
I'm not sure if you realize, but this is New Citizen Q and A. It's not impossible that some new pilots would ask for advice. Pretty trollish of you to assume every dumb question is a troll attempt. We're asking to learn, not to give you entertainment.
As for your troll attempt: Seen it before. 1/10
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Alexis Prey
World Miners
28
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Posted - 2011.09.21 06:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mei guoren wrote:
I'm not sure if you realize, but this is New Citizen Q and A. It's not impossible that some new pilots would ask for advice. Pretty trollish of you to assume every dumb question is a troll attempt. We're asking to learn, not to give you entertainment. As for your troll attempt: Seen it before. 1/10
^^this |
Ruban Spangler
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2011.09.21 07:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mei guoren wrote:Anyway, I've seen fits that say a Manticore can torpedo from 70km. I've also read that bombs fire from 30km. T2 launchers javlin ammo and max skills will enable you to engage at 70-80km. Plug the fit into EFT. Works well with sensor dampeners if you have someone else tackling
Mei guoren wrote:I know if I get targeted I'm basicly dead. Not quite. You are dead if you let yourself get tackled but that is true of most frigates. A shield buffer SB can take a hit (maybe 2) at range before warping off.
Mei guoren wrote:I'll add that I realize that bombs can 1 hit most frigs, and retrievers, but I don't really have any intentions to kill random noobs in low sec, or retrievers.. Bombs only work in null - not lowsec. A single bomb will pop a hauler, miners and any frigate stupid enough to leave its MWD on. Tanked t2 frigates and those AB fitted will survive a bomb.
re. your tactics To kill the Hulk launch a bomb at 30km, fire torps and be ready to tackle with 24km point if it survives. If you have a hound and manti ensure you use the same bombs. Find a camp and launch two bombs from 30 km away. As long as you are aligned to something behind the target this is a relatively safe operation. Bombing the station will be a bit hit and miss as there is the station undock invulnerability timer. Plenty of posts about SB tactics in the main forums |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery Situation: Normal
10
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Posted - 2011.09.21 08:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
You're putting so much effort into these troll threads that it's a giant pity you don't know how to follow through properly; opting instead to **** up your own thread with alt posts before it gets momentum.
1/10 - the last one was better.
Ruben Sprangler wrote:Bombs only work in null - not lowsec. A single bomb will pop a hauler, miners and any frigate stupid enough to leave its MWD on. Tanked t2 frigates and those AB fitted will survive a bomb
Any frigate will take a bomb to the face, and be just fine. Most times you won't get through the shields. Most will be able to burn into range and pop the bomber in a few seconds if they're a **** pilot. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Alexis Prey
World Miners
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 10:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ruban Spangler wrote:Mei guoren wrote:Anyway, I've seen fits that say a Manticore can torpedo from 70km. I've also read that bombs fire from 30km. T2 launchers javlin ammo and max skills will enable you to engage at 70-80km. Plug the fit into EFT. Works well with sensor dampeners if you have someone else tackling Mei guoren wrote:I know if I get targeted I'm basicly dead. Not quite. You are dead if you let yourself get tackled but that is true of most frigates. A shield buffer SB can take a hit (maybe 2) at range before warping off. Mei guoren wrote:I'll add that I realize that bombs can 1 hit most frigs, and retrievers, but I don't really have any intentions to kill random noobs in low sec, or retrievers.. Bombs only work in null - not lowsec. A single bomb will pop a hauler, miners and any frigate stupid enough to leave its MWD on. Tanked t2 frigates and those AB fitted will survive a bomb. re. your tactics To kill the Hulk launch a bomb at 30km, fire torps and be ready to tackle with 24km point if it survives. If you have a hound and manti ensure you use the same bombs. Find a camp and launch two bombs from 30 km away. As long as you are aligned to something behind the target this is a relatively safe operation. Bombing the station will be a bit hit and miss as there is the station undock invulnerability timer. Plenty of posts about SB tactics in the main forums
thanks, this was extremely useful. why align to something behind the target though? |
Ruban Spangler
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2011.09.21 13:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
From about 40km align to an object behind the target. At 30 km uncloak, launch and warp to object. Do not re-cloak until the bomb goes off (else it will not work). As you are already aligned and travelling at full speed you will instantly warp away. If you launch and then align to something the delay will most likely get you killed if there is any fast tackle about. |
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Tagera
Unity Systems Engineering The Dog Pound
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 13:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
When you are realigned you basically instance warp....no extra time used for ship turning. Which if they have interceptors means death.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
1
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Posted - 2011.09.21 13:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
You have to fly towards the target to launch the bomb - getting in position while cloaked so that the target has a warpable object behind it - lets you approach, launch then warp out before being killed.
. |
Alexis Prey
World Miners
29
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 13:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:You have to fly towards the target to launch the bomb - getting in position while cloaked so that the target has a warpable object behind it - lets you approach, launch then warp out before being killed.
.
Interesting. This is all assuming 1 bomb will kill the target? What about align->torp->bomb->torp->warp? |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery Situation: Normal
10
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Posted - 2011.09.21 13:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Guys ....
Stop feeding the trolls, really. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Tagera
Unity Systems Engineering The Dog Pound
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 14:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alexis Prey wrote:Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:You have to fly towards the target to launch the bomb - getting in position while cloaked so that the target has a warpable object behind it - lets you approach, launch then warp out before being killed.
. Interesting. This is all assuming 1 bomb will kill the target? What about align->torp->bomb->torp->warp?
Only if the torps hit before bomb does. Otherwise the bomb will blow up the torps.
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Ruban Spangler
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2011.09.21 15:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Guys .... Stop feeding the trolls, really. Anything posted in the new citizens Q&A should be given the benefit of the doubt. Even if it is a troll post, the questions are still valid and may be of interest to new players. ThatGÇÖs my take anyway. I remember training for a SB thinking that the first thing I was going to do was going to bomb Jita |
gfldex
4
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Posted - 2011.09.21 16:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lets see:
15:50:39 Combat Your Concussion Bomb hits Schlepperchen [KABEL](Hulk), doing 1080.0 damage.
Nope, one bomb wont cut it on an untanked Hulk without any gang bonus.
Let's see how a Hurricane against a unrealistically well tanked Hulk does.
16:03:25 Combat Your group of 425mm AutoCannon II is well aimed at Schlepperchen [KABEL](Hulk), inflicting 318.2 damage. [...] 16:03:43 Notify Torrent Assault Missile deactivates as the Item it was targeted at is no longer present.
That's just 18s. I think the Bomber is not the best option. |
Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 16:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
A single bomb will kill a mwd'ing T1 frigate or a destroyer assuming no target painters are being used. T1 haulers usually pop but its a waste of a bomb.
Find someone else's fight and time it right then you might take out a lot more with a single bomb. Time it wrong and they get a good laugh
Bombs are not for solo work. |
Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 16:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alexis Prey wrote:Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:You have to fly towards the target to launch the bomb - getting in position while cloaked so that the target has a warpable object behind it - lets you approach, launch then warp out before being killed.
. Interesting. This is all assuming 1 bomb will kill the target? What about align->torp->bomb->torp->warp?
You die if they have anything which can lock you reasonably quickly. Edit - you'd never get two volleys off from the siege launchers without being locked, incompetence excepted. |
Alexis Prey
World Miners
29
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 17:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Othran wrote:Alexis Prey wrote:Toshiro GreyHawk wrote:You have to fly towards the target to launch the bomb - getting in position while cloaked so that the target has a warpable object behind it - lets you approach, launch then warp out before being killed.
. Interesting. This is all assuming 1 bomb will kill the target? What about align->torp->bomb->torp->warp? You die if they have anything which can lock you reasonably quickly. Edit - you'd never get two volleys off from the siege launchers without being locked, incompetence excepted.
Well, I don't plan on a hulk targeting me. |
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Algathas
Domini Caedis
1
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Due to it's size, a bomb would only kill a frigate (Even a T1 one) if it has a MWD on. Otherwise it could heavily damage it but not pop it. Also, if you launch a bomb then immediately launch torps, the bomb explosion can actually destroy a volley or two of torps if they are in mid flight when the bomb explodes. |
Tagera
Unity Systems Engineering The Dog Pound
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 20:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
Algathas wrote:Due to it's size, a bomb would only kill a frigate (Even a T1 one) if it has a MWD on. Otherwise it could heavily damage it but not pop it. Also, if you launch a bomb then immediately launch torps, the bomb explosion can actually destroy a volley or two of torps if they are in mid flight when the bomb explodes.
Very true, sig radius plays alot. Some people actually use smartbombs as anti missile defense. Tough to do though. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
75
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 23:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Is it still the case that torpedoes in flight will wink out of existence when you cloak/warp off? |
Tamiya Sarossa
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 23:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Is it still the case that torpedoes in flight will wink out of existence when you cloak/warp off?
Yes. They don't blink at per se but as soon as you 'initiate warp' than they will stop doing damage. Cloaking tbh I'm not sure about, would have to test.
I really hope someone who is actually new reads these threads and learns something. |
Fortunea
World Miners
7
|
Posted - 2011.09.22 01:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Is it still the case that torpedoes in flight will wink out of existence when you cloak/warp off? Yes. They don't blink at per se but as soon as you 'initiate warp' than they will stop doing damage. Cloaking tbh I'm not sure about, would have to test. I really hope someone who is actually new reads these threads and learns something.
kinda a compliment you dont think were new. but yeah.. argueing with you is a waste of time. i could care less what you think of us |
Metal Icarus
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.09.23 16:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Manticore tactics? Let me open my book of 100% certified nullsec tactics. All of this is from personal experience.
Even if you attack a hulk it is still possible to be killed by the drones if the guy has good drone skills. (Very possible in null) If you are going to solo in null, camp a bubble with a bomber and make sure that u make a bombing run that is on grid.
YOU CAN WARP THROUGH BUBBLES. (When in close proximity)
even if you put a target damp on your target and he can't target you, HIS DRONES STILL CAN
Your bomb will STILL DO DAMAGE IF YOU WARP OFF AFTER LAUNCHING (even off grid)
Regional gates are f-in HUGE (this sucks to camp without bookmarks with a sb)
hint: Make a drag bubble and bomb UNATTENTIVE targets that are MWD'ing back to gate, make the bombing run to intercept their path.
Try to fit agility rigs to help the bombing runs. If you are torping, your target should be HELPLESS (if you bomb a hulk and destroy his drones with the bomb) or you WILL DIE.
never engage a frigate/destroyer with torps (you will die for sure if they have guns equpped)
Last final rule that should NEVER BE BROKEN lest ye want to die: NEVER LAUNCH A BOMB and TURN AROUND to warp off. |
J'Poll
Borealis Mining Concern IMPERIAL LEGI0N
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 09:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
I've been following the 4 of you ever since you started the topic of ship fits for a 4 man PvP gang intended to hold systems hostage.
So far I'm only ROFL as EVERYTHING you need to know for this you still need to ask on forums, so far you fail at stuff.
But I give you credits for trying, I do hope you will suceed, but my first and only suggestion is, start by joining a good large corp with all 4 of you. You can still do your 4 man ransom plans but also can learn from other players in the corp.
p.s. I'm still waiting for you to show up in our systems to try and ransom us. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery Situation: Normal
64
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 11:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:I've been following the 4 of you ever since you started the topic of ship fits for a 4 man PvP gang intended to hold systems hostage.
So far I'm only ROFL as EVERYTHING you need to know for this you still need to ask on forums, so far you fail at stuff.
But I give you credits for trying, I do hope you will suceed, but my first and only suggestion is, start by joining a good large corp with all 4 of you. You can still do your 4 man ransom plans but also can learn from other players in the corp.
p.s. I'm still waiting for you to show up in our systems to try and ransom us.
They're actually genuine, that's the scary ****.
They've started losing terrible-fit recons and have 1 kill (by kill I mean, killmail *****) and some 20 losses.
So yeah, they're not trolls, they're just people with an utterly terrible attitude who think they know better.
Personally, I'm waiting for the inevitable "new players can't PVP in Eve" post. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
J'Poll
Borealis Mining Concern IMPERIAL LEGI0N
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 12:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:J'Poll wrote:My old post here. They're actually genuine, that's the scary ****. They've started losing terrible-fit recons and have 1 kill (by kill I mean, killmail *****) and some 20 losses. So yeah, they're not trolls, they're just people with an utterly terrible attitude who think they know better. Personally, I'm waiting for the inevitable "new players can't PVP in Eve" post.
You won't ever hear me say that new players can't PvP in EVE.
It's just don't be a deuce about other peoples comments that help you find what you look and in the same time post a lot of forum threads about stuff you can easily find out by joining a corp (even if it's for just a short amount of time). It's the attitude that these guys have, they are still fairly new to EVE and already have the attitude of being one of the best ever PvP pilots in EVE which annoys people. They IMHO should relax a bit and agree they are still new and still have to learn a lot, best to do that is take advice (even if people don't give it in a nice polite way) and be able to handle negative comments. Best to learn is to TALK to people, not yell at them they are trolling etc.
I myself ain't a good PvP pilot eighter, my main profession is industry based stuff but living in null means I have to PvP sometimes. When I do I'm totally open to suggestions and comments by others in the fleet, this is the best way to learn stuff about PvP. Just ask and be able to manage answers (both positive and negative).
My suggestion still is:
Join a PvP corp, and don't like in the OPs former thread demand rediculious high expectations from a corp, and learn from vets in that corp.
Like with anything in RL, start small and then move up to bigger stuff.
*It's not that I like to troll these guys, but with the attitude they give to mostly genuine advice it's hard not too |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
55
|
Posted - 2011.10.06 17:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Mei guoren wrote:I'm putting together my Manticore, and I'm trying to come up with some good tactics. I started reading the first page, and got frustrated with all the BS answers, so I didn't read the whole thread. Apologies if someone has actually given this info already.
First, learn how to drop a bomb. Uncloak, launch torpedoes first and wait for them to leave your ship. As soon as you see the torps fly from your ship, launch the bomb. This will prevent the bomb from destroying your torps.
A note on range: you want to engage from 30 km. Bombs travel for 30 km then detonate when launched, and have a 15 km blast radius. So you also need a torp range of at least 30 km.
You want to move into position before the bomb run. Move so that your target is directly inline with a celestial or customs office. The idea is to launch a volley of torps, launch the bomb, then GTFO (unless there are only industrials) because your ship is made of wet tissue paper. Don't make the mistake of MWD-ing towards the bomb, or you will kill yourself.
Don't try to bomb anything smaller than a battlecruiser, and if you see a Dominix just run away and don't bother trying.
A Manticore can be setup to snipe with T2 Javelin torpedoes at well over 100 km, but it takes forever for the torps to hit. This is fine for ratting battleships. |
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