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Vaerah Vain
2
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Posted - 2012.07.01 09:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
TLDR
-¦ If you want to get an uncollateralized loan at 6% you can get it by trading this market. * If you are a manufacturer / POS owner and want to pay minerals / fuel during high time Christmas at the prices of October, then you can get some of this by trading this market. * If you always wanted to be able and short sell an EvE commodity, you can now.
Intro
Once again I'd like to try my hand at emergent market game play. This is just a very beginning draft.
What I propose is a small / beta attempt at a secondary market exchange plus 1-2 pilot futures to get the ball rolling.
Let's sort the painful parts first: security.
I am willing to post collateral in the form of BPOs / futures materials and even ISK to Chribba or Grendell. This is as close to "secure" for EvE Online as it gets.
As 3rd party / collateral holder myself, I have been trusted up to about 100B in the past both as agglomerate amount plus a varying amount for the VAERT fund (up to above 90B at one time).
Those willing to trust me without having to post collateral to Chribba / Grendell will pay no exchange fee.
The Exchange
Since I don't know how well accepted experiment will be, the first iteration will be a shared Excel / Google sheet showing an orders book. It will look like the in game market orders book but it will be realistic and will be a subset of what well detailed in this Wikipedia entry.
Market and Stop orders (those we have in EvE markets in the form of "regular vs advanced" sell / buy windows) will be anonymized and displayed on the order book. There will also be the ability to setup limit orders, possibly in a second iteration.
Orders will be processed and matched by using a FIFO (first in first out) queue, like many RL exchanges do. The overall process will be similar to the much simplified example shown here.
By default 5 buy and 5 sell orders will be visible, with the option to expand them to full order book for a 20M a month fee.
Setting up orders will change with iterations.
In the beginning it'll be more of a manual approach, if the experiment takes off it'll become WEB / IGB based or application based (depending on which one will be preferred by the traders). In the beginning, FIFO priority will be guaranteed, real time execution won't happen. Orders will be matched about once a day. Each executed trade will incur a fee of 1% of the contract value. Half of it will go to the exchange, half to the broker. In case of third party brokers, they will set their own price. Market sessions will have End Of Day mark to market. This means price will be fixed and trades settled once per day and margin accounts will be checked once a day as well. Market will have safety controls, trading will be suspended in case the contracts value change by more than 15% in a day. There will be standards compliant OHLC market data available, in the form of a CSV file or similar.
Broker
The initial iterations would see me also acting as broker. If anyone trusted else wants to step up (and take a share of the fee profits) feel free to propose themselves. I will also see if Grendell is willing to act as accounts holder, I have no interest at holding anybody's ISK.
Like in RL (and in EvE, it just happens to be a transparent process), traders will have to open an account before being able to trade on the exchange. Like for past accounts based initiatives, this will involve sending ISK to a dedicated character whose API will be periodically polled. Minimum allowed amount will be discussed later.
Withdrawals will require a mail being sent to the same character and will require all the open positions being closed first. Each trader will have to specify whether they want a commodity or cash settled contract.
Type of accounts
Some RL traders allow multiple kinds of accounts, and so will do I (other brokers will have their own terms).
- Cash account: you'll be able to buy or short sell whatever amount of contracts up to the value stored in the account. - Margin account: you'll only need to have 25% of the cash required to buy or short sell. I will act as liquidity provider, that is I will loan you at a to be defined interest rate the remaining amount.
Example:
You want to buy 1 contract worth 1 billion. You have to have 250M + fees in your account, I'll put the remainder 750M. Each day you'll be in the market, you'll pay a small interest to me (say 6% / 30 days = 0.2% a day). Those who just wanted to buy and hold would effectively have the equivalent of a 6% loan for 75% of the commodities with no collateral requirement.
Past the first iterations, I will accept 3rd party liquidity providers willing to work a solution to feed ISK to margin accounts on my behalf.
As you can see there are business opportunities for many entities. |
Vaerah Vain
2
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Posted - 2012.07.01 09:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Contracts
The exchange will trade commodity (first iteration) contracts. These are basically papers giving ownership to an underlying commodity at a certain date. The commodity has standardized properties and delivery terms. Contracts shall be periodically issued.
An example of a RL commodity contract may be found here: Chicago Mercantile Exchange.
Contracts will be delivered either by providing the actual underlying commodity or the cash equivalent to the EvE market value of the commodity at the date of contract expiration. I will consider 3rd party commodity providers to help me fulfill the delivery contracts.
Contracts may be bought, sold and short sold at any time before they expire. Contracts have their own market. That is, a futures value for a certain commodity could be different than the EvE commodity until the date they expire. Smart traders will have probably figured out how to greatly profit from the above sentence already.
The exchange will launch with about 100 e-mini contracts, that is small contracts that may be afforded by most traders. They will be worth about 100M each.
As you see this is a bold project (to say the least) and it's still in a very rough draft phase.
Any constructive discussion is welcome.
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Kara Books
Deal with IT.
180
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Posted - 2012.07.01 17:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
EvE would never be the same without you.
From what iv heard, in real life people who try to scam their brokers usually get the long shaft and most of their funds taken from them, in other words, artificially inflating a certain item to take your ISK may pose a great threat, particularly to your trusted status if you wanted to model loss prevention after your every day broker firm.
No trading during high volatility is out the window.
Perhaps a simplified monthly moving average formula, once spikes or drops /belowabove a certain point, should invalidate any effected contract under your descression.
Just a few idea's off the top of my head, hope you gain some useful experience with this, looks very interesting. |
Drago Wolfbane Skorvalk
GLU CANU
3
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Posted - 2012.07.01 17:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Are you proposing long term contracts? Monthly or even Weekly? or all three?
Would you have "market makers" involved? People who have to buy and sell the options at market price no matter?
I think with how easy it is to manipulate prices it will be difficult but I admit my knowledge is lacking in EVE.
Either way it would be interesting.
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Drago Wolfbane Skorvalk
GLU CANU
3
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Posted - 2012.07.01 18:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Would you start the options all on Covered calls?
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Drago Wolfbane Skorvalk
GLU CANU
3
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Posted - 2012.07.01 18:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:
No trading during high volatility is out the window.
But this is the precise time people want to trade options. Volatility is where the money is made.
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Vaerah Vain
4
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Posted - 2012.07.01 19:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:EvE would never be the same without you.
Wee! Thanks!
Kara Books wrote: From what iv heard, in real life people who try to scam their brokers usually get the long shaft and most of their funds taken from them, in other words, artificially inflating a certain item to take your ISK may pose a great threat, particularly to your trusted status if you wanted to model loss prevention after your every day broker firm.
No trading during high volatility is out the window.
Perhaps a simplified monthly moving average formula, once spikes or drops /belowabove a certain point, should invalidate any effected contract under your descression.
Just a few idea's off the top of my head, hope you gain some useful experience with this, looks very interesting.
I'd like you expanded a bit more on this as my English is quite rough. What would be this "inflating a certain item to take your ISK" about?
Drago Wolfbane Skorvalk wrote:Are you proposing long term contracts? Monthly or even Weekly? or all three?
Would you have "market makers" involved? People who have to buy and sell the options at market price no matter?
I think with how easy it is to manipulate prices it will be difficult but I admit my knowledge is lacking in EVE.
Either way it would be interesting.
Contracts would mature quarterly, but they may be traded any time.
In particular, this trading happens on their own market, they are not immediately tied with the EvE prices except when the contracts are created and the day they expire.
As for market makers, I like the idea of wholesale dealers who would buy the created contracts at a discount and then do whatever they want to re-distribute them. There's an obstacle in the discount though, as if I sell wholesale 10B worth of contracts with 10% discount, I only get 9B while I had to spend 10B in underlying materials.
So, I am open to practical suggestions here.
As for options, at the moment they are not implemented. It will be THE most extreme challenge ever attempted in EvE finance (well, creating a charity too was somewhat "against the EvE current" too). If it even takes off, then I'll consider it a big score.
If it takes off then we can think about options, but I am not an expert in that sector. |
Drago Wolfbane Skorvalk
GLU CANU
3
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Posted - 2012.07.01 21:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Well market makers would be the ones who profit on the spread of the option/future. They have a bid/ask like any stock. MM have the job of filling any at market orders.
Options/futures would be difficult, because part of their value is also related to volume. Volume also affects the spread of the bid and ask. High volume options tend to have very close spreads (for a RL example look at a AAPL option) Compared to a low volume one (look at ISRG for example) both of those trade weekly and that is where it is most pronounced.
I think it would be a big challenge, but something really interesting.
I wish you all the luck in this enterprise!!
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Drago Wolfbane Skorvalk
GLU CANU
3
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Posted - 2012.07.01 21:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
I also just now got done watching "Trading Places" lol
One dollar. |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
75
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Posted - 2012.07.02 12:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vaerah Vain wrote:TLDR As 3rd party / collateral holder myself, I have been trusted up to about 100B in the past both as agglomerate amount plus a varying amount for the VAERT fund (up to above 90B at one time).
That's not true.
VAERT fund was run by Vaerah Vahrokha. I would like to see some verification that you are Vaerah Vahrokha.
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Gatan Hahran
Brukterer DUCT TAPE UNION
121
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Posted - 2012.07.02 18:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Block Ukx wrote:Vaerah Vain wrote:TLDR As 3rd party / collateral holder myself, I have been trusted up to about 100B in the past both as agglomerate amount plus a varying amount for the VAERT fund (up to above 90B at one time).
That's not true. VAERT fund was run by Vaerah Vahrokha. I would like to see some verification that you are Vaerah Vahrokha.
Your implication that there could be 2 persons in this universe who write threads like that really scares me.
Edit: I forgot the serious stuff. If i buy 10.000 Quafe for 47 ISK each, could i buy a future contract for selling quafe with a runtime of 10 minutes that protects me from falling quafe prices while i fly with my bestower to the target station? |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
75
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Posted - 2012.07.03 10:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gatan Hahran wrote: Your implication that there could be 2 persons in this universe who write threads like that really scares me.
Well, according to you it must be a scary world out there.
If you pay close attention you will notice that the writing styles of Vain and Vahrokha are very different. Also, notice how Vaerah Vain has ditched the identity question multiple times. To me, it looks like some scammer taking advantage of Vaerah VahrokhaGÇÖs name. I wouldnGÇÖt be surprised if Vaerah Vain gets banned for trying to impersonate Vaerah Vahrokha.
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Estel Again
Defense Industries
27
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Posted - 2012.07.03 10:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
I have reported Vaerah Vain for impersonation.
In another thread I questioned her brief time in a NPC corp (account/owner transfer?), but she didn't actually claim to be Vaerah Vahrokha. But claiming to be the manager of the VAERT fund without confirmation by Vaerah Vahrokha is impersonation, as Block already mentioned, so a report is appropriate here. |
Vaerah Vain
5
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Posted - 2012.07.03 11:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
You two really don't have anything better to do?
Everyone who wants to check that I am I has just to join the SCC-Lounge chat, and see how I mainly play on this character.
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Estel Again
Defense Industries
27
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Posted - 2012.07.03 12:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vaerah Vain wrote:Everyone who wants to check that I am I has just to join the SCC-Lounge chat, and see how I mainly play on this character. You can play one character and post with another, so I don't see how that has anything to do with it.
Vaerah Vain wrote:Also, I happen to have a life so excuse me if I don't promptly reply on the internets to people who SURELY sold their character. . Having sold a character is a pretty good reason to start using another character to post. Vaerah Vahrokha has not been sold, so who are you? |
Magnu Stormhawk
The Gentlemen's Club of EVE
16
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Posted - 2012.07.03 13:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Why dont you just post on VV and put an end to the conjecture? |
Mme Pinkerton
73
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Posted - 2012.07.03 13:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Estel Again wrote:Vaerah Vain wrote:Everyone who wants to check that I am I has just to join the SCC-Lounge chat, and see how I mainly play on this character. You can play one character and post with another, so I don't see how that has anything to do with it. Vaerah Vain wrote:Also, I happen to have a life so excuse me if I don't promptly reply on the internets to people who SURELY sold their character. . Having sold a character is a pretty good reason to start using another character to post. Vaerah Vahrokha has not been sold, so who are you? that's an awful lot of tinfoil.
I deleted chatlogs from all public chats in early May 2012 but since then I have recorded four logs (#1, #2, #3, #4) in which both Vaerah Vahrokha and Vaerah Vain appear, in two of them (#2 & #4) Vahrokha speaks shortly after Vain (so an impostor could not just wait until Vahrokha logs off and then continue the discussion using Vain).
(not to mention a private conversation in which she bounces between both characters from June 2011)
how much should I bill both of you for the waste of my time with such stupid accusations? An IPO guide (David H'Levi) | Towards a Positive Argument For Investing (RAW23) | Freighter Operations 101 (Kazuo Ishiguro) | Dominion market analysis (Akita T)
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
80
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Posted - 2012.07.03 13:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
I am sparticus! |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
217
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Posted - 2012.07.03 14:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:I am sparticus! reported. |
Estel Again
Defense Industries
27
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Posted - 2012.07.03 16:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
I see the hand of YGR in this. |
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