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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.03.14 20:50:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 14/03/2010 20:51:22
Quote:
But like I said, your true motive and gripe is not being able to gank PVE ships with your PVP gank squad of death. But you won't say this. You come under different pretenses. But meh, whatever.
I am currently doing 0% PvP, even felt like leaving my corp because I can't play long enough to be worthwhile. My true motive is that you can do like those who ganked in hi sec and managed to cheat CONCORD.
Or those in WoW who would go over the roofs to harass newbies since guards were not programmed to attack over roofs. The art of finding the little hole to subvert the game rules. Also called exploit.
Quote:
On paper? Have you even ever tried stuffing a T3 with ECCM and compared its efficiency with a non-ECCM version? You don't seem to even understand you're giving up DPS AND tank. You say you're a mission runner, but are you really? From what you say you don't seem to run missions a lot.
It's easy: do you do the PLEXes / whatever with the gimped setup or not?
If yes, then:
- you factored in the gimpage and still found out it's profitable enough to bother
- you factored in the gimpage and still can do the task, that is gimp or not it does the job, it's a job *enabler*. Without that cheat setup you would *not* be there. And thus you are exploiting the game taking advantages you should not take.
Quote:
Wouldn't you agree? But what I'm having trouble understanding is why would you think recons are fine and that they *should* be able to do their jobs in 100% safety while T3s shouldn't.
And where is it written that a T3 is meant to do its job without any risk?
Quote:
Then you change the conversation to "well, the interdiction nullifier makes it invulnerable". And then my response to you is that your problem is with the interdiction nullifier and why not ask CCP to nerf that instead?
Because that's a powerful mechanic that has been introduced to help T3 ships where they would be weak. That is an intended, calculated, planned, intended feature, with no side "fine math" or tricks to go beyond the limits.
T3 ships were made with that advantage in mind. It's players who decided to add another, so you get two powerful mechanics and one of them is beyond game engine management and thus an exploit.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.03.14 22:01:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha You could also catch pre-nerf nano ships and falcons!
Nano ships and falcons affected whole pvp aspect of the game, unprobeable ships affect only lazy carebear gankers.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha The player can dock, turn in missions and get ammo in a cov ops or even a shuttle, all it takes is an alt.
Then you can catch his alt and he wont be able to do anything, only sit in space /same with cloaky ships/.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha As for changing system, it's what having multiple L4 Q20 agents in the system is for
You still have to return mission and refit or get ammo /and if you use alt for it it can be ganked/.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha and in case of real need to leave, it's still possible to come and go near downtime with impunity.
You can camp station all day if you have time, even near downtime.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha You trade the complete impossibility of doing a PLEX or mission there, with the possibility to do it.
So you are saying it should be completely impossible to do plexes or missions if there are enemy ships in system?
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess I'm talking about PvE aspect only here.
So being 'lol completely immune' why having a role in pvp is ok /cloaked ship scouting enemy/, but in pve /missionin ship/ its not...
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess Proper decloaking is efficient only when target which jumped into camp cannot warp from its spot and has to fly ~10 km just to get out of the bubble. T3 has interdiction nullifier which helps to get out of the bubble anyway because even if you're decloaked, it's too late for campers.
Its still possible and if you are decloaked or you cant cloak because something is near you you are instalocked and dead /tbh not that hard with competent gatecamp because every new bubble popped will interrupt initiated warp/.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha All you need is to head on the mission forum to see what I am doing ATM: exclusively mission.
Hard to believe it - as missionrunner you are whining for l4 mission nerf and as carebear you are whining for nerf of unprobeable ships that dont affect you in any way.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It's easy: do you do the PLEXes
You can probe down plexes even if you cant probe down ship. But i understand its hard for lazy ganker.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Without that cheat setup you would *not* be there.
Lies, many ppl ran 0.0 mission even without unprobable ships and its not cheat setup. Its same like saying that cloaks are cheating.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha And thus you are exploiting the game taking advantages you should not take.
You are lying, its not exploit and cheating.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha And where is it written that a T3 is meant to do its job without any risk?
They are not doing anything without risk.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It's players who decided to add another, so you get two powerful mechanics and one of them is beyond game engine management and thus an exploit.
No, its working as intended and its not an exploit.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.03.14 22:11:00 -
[63]
Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 14/03/2010 22:16:40
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha T3 ships were made with that advantage in mind. It's players who decided to add another, so you get two powerful mechanics and one of them is beyond game engine management and thus an exploit.
It's impossible to have this discussion with you and we'll get nowhere fast. No need to even address your points. However, the above gem is probably the most laughable of all. If you think T3 pilots are exploiting game mechanics then feel free to petition them as exploiting game mechanics is against the EULA.
As was already said, this is about lazy gankers wanting their easy PVE kills. All I can say is good luck with your nerf crusade. That is all.
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Slade Hoo
Amarr Corpse Collection Point
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Posted - 2010.03.14 22:25:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Slade Hoo on 14/03/2010 22:29:12 Edited by: Slade Hoo on 14/03/2010 22:27:09 Its not only about ganking carebears. There are other purposes for unscannable ships. I mentioned t3 fleet booster ships before. Before T3-Ships a commandship was vulnerable while running gang links because you can't use the links while being in warp or cloaked. Why did CCP do this? Because otherwise any commandship could warp permanently between several bookmarks and be invulnerable. Now with T3s ability to use ganglinks and being unscannable this mechanic is obsolete and you can exploit the game mechanic of warfare links by being unscannable. Either get rid of unscannable ships or make ganglinks be used in warp! Fleet commands were nerfed pretty hard with the introduction of T3 even without that scan mechanic.
------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum! |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.03.15 13:22:00 -
[65]
Quote:
If you think T3 pilots are exploiting game mechanics then feel free to petition them as exploiting game mechanics is against the EULA
You play safe here, because you know CCP are tolerating this side effect of an oudated system (the scanning vs sensor strength mechanics) because they could not "sell" T3 ships otherwise.
Also, exploiting does not equate to violate the EULA. It only becomes a bannable offense after the EULA gets changed to forbid that precise exploit, it's why everyone do them impunely before they are fixed.
Also, your resistance to PvP in a PvP game is peculiar. Did you lose too many autopiloted badgers in low sec in your early days? - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.03.16 04:02:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
If you think T3 pilots are exploiting game mechanics then feel free to petition them as exploiting game mechanics is against the EULA
You play safe here, because you know CCP are tolerating this side effect of an oudated system (the scanning vs sensor strength mechanics) because they could not "sell" T3 ships otherwise.
Lol. Yeah they are just totally useless, and the whole point of T3 was to fly around unprobeable.
Man this thread is stupid. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.03.16 15:59:00 -
[67]
Quote:
Lol. Yeah they are just totally useless, and the whole point of T3 was to fly around unprobeable.
Even with these tricks T3 still remain less played than marauders.
For being the CCP stated versatile ships with T2 alike cost (but without T2 0.0 alliances materials monopoly) it is not really a great achievement. Despite having squashed material costs on them, again and again. So the hidden pact comes: we get a blind eye or two about some peculiar... feature and you buy the ships because of them.
BTW a GM told me that they are aware of this ways of fitting and so far they are allowed but they reserve to change them. So don't plan to necessarily sit on the luck machine forever.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.03.16 16:30:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha BTW a GM told me that they are aware of this ways of fitting and so far they are allowed but they reserve to change them.
So wait...a GM told you that CCP reserves the right to rework game mechanics?
Was that really in doubt?
I mean honestly, did you really need a GM to tell you that CCP can change the way the game works if they want to? I don't think anyone here is harboring any illusions about that point. --Vel
Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats. |
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.03.16 19:15:00 -
[69]
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha BTW a GM told me that they are aware of this ways of fitting and so far they are allowed but they reserve to change them.
So wait...a GM told you that CCP reserves the right to rework game mechanics?
Was that really in doubt?
I mean honestly, did you really need a GM to tell you that CCP can change the way the game works if they want to? I don't think anyone here is harboring any illusions about that point.
Well they can certainly put a team on it in any case. :P -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Vizirion
The Deliberate Forces
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Posted - 2010.03.17 05:47:00 -
[70]
Just because almost all this ship's are flying in gay setup (covert cloak), i think they must be scannable.
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FlameGlow
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.17 14:30:00 -
[71]
Edited by: FlameGlow on 17/03/2010 14:30:29 Scanning became way too easy with apocrypha anyway. BTW how come your ship's signal strength inside a deadspace complex with tenn of structures and ships is greater then the signal strenght of this comlex? Ship's signal strength should be capped at complex's signal strength when you're inside IMO Furthermore, you're already reading my sig |
Miss President
Caldari SOLARIS ASTERIUS
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Posted - 2010.03.18 00:52:00 -
[72]
not supported
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2010.03.18 07:06:00 -
[73]
Not supported as well. If t3's should be scannable, next in line would be my jag. It is hard to be unscannable (at least in a Loki), that in and on itself is a drawback.
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