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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas
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Posted - 2010.03.12 11:52:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 12/03/2010 11:55:26 I was there when UK was founded. The fight for freedom was a costly one, and even in the early days pilots were drawn to the wealth that the lawless lands could provide. Perhaps some of the draw was greed, but the fact remains that without resources UK could not bring a relevant force to the fight.
In the end I parted ways with the UK, I personally felt that entry into 0.0 was a mistake. I believed, at the time, that maintaining access to 0.0 would, out of necessity, become their primary goal, and the fight for freedom would end up taking a back seat. I also knew that there were plenty of opportunities to make loads of isk within the confines of Empire controlled space. While I disagreed with their response, I may well have been the one in the wrong, as they have done far more for the cause since I left than I have been able to in the same time.
That being said, UK has dealt a major blow to an alliance that has been responsible for supporting and spreading Amarrian ideology for years. Their motivation doesn't matter, the end result should be cause for celebration for Minmatar and all those who oppose slavery. What they do next will be closely watched by many. They will have to defend their newly conquered space, and to do that they'll need infrastructure, and a sizeable defense force.
The fact that former slavers are willing now to join an anti-slavery alliance is another cause for celebration. UK has shown that they it can be more profitable to work with them than against them, and people are responding accordingly. UK should not be condemned for accepting people who are willing to change their beliefs about slavery... and people should not be judged solely on their past choices.
I applaud the UK. They're walking a difficult path, and they're doing a fine job of it, in my humble opinion. I wish them all the best, and I sincerely hope that their newfound sovereignty will inspire a surge in the anti-slavery movement that will provide them with ample means to defend and to still be able to pursue their anti-slavery offensives with a vengeance.
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Pimpertron
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Posted - 2010.03.12 12:25:00 -
[2]
If it was UK that achieved something I would be more than willing too congratulate them on a job well done. But they have done nothing but cash in on a conflict between -A- and CVA + friends.
Far from choosing the hard path they have taken the very easy path. I can understand UK taking advantage of a situation like this to get some space back.
What I cant understand is why all the chest beating about it and why accuse their foes of running scared when UK are backed by such powerful friends.
I find that quite sickening to be ohnest and look forward to the day that -A- are not around and we shall see what UK are really made of.
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Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.12 13:08:00 -
[3]
I do love bitter people who hate the fact we have friends, your Galnet anger makes me chuckle.
Because, of course, CVA do everything alone, don't they? ----------
~bitter dog~
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Pimpertron
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Posted - 2010.03.12 13:50:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Pimpertron on 12/03/2010 13:50:42 I was simply pointing out that the OP is wrong in what he says.
Bitter? No I am just a nuetral observer in this episode of eve history in the making. I dont care how many friends you have either to be ohnest.
Sickened by the endless bull**** coming form UK mouths? Yes I Am, you are no better than the average playground bullie talking tuff because your got some muscle behind you. It might be half credible if that muscle was your own but sadly it isn't
Surley it cant be that hard to work out, your significance in what goes on in Providance is minimal so why dont you keep your posting too the same level?
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.12 13:59:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Pimpertron Edited by: Pimpertron on 12/03/2010 13:50:42 I was simply pointing out that the OP is wrong in what he says.
Bitter? No I am just a nuetral observer in this episode of eve history in the making. I dont care how many friends you have either to be ohnest.
Sickened by the endless bull**** coming form UK mouths? Yes I Am, you are no better than the average playground bullie talking tuff because your got some muscle behind you. It might be half credible if that muscle was your own but sadly it isn't
Surley it cant be that hard to work out, your significance in what goes on in Providance is minimal so why dont you keep your posting too the same level?
same can be applied on cva
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
Jakiin
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
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Posted - 2010.03.12 14:36:00 -
[6]
First off: the comparison of CVA'sHolders to U'K's alliance with -a- in this conflict is idiotic at best and propaganda at worst. It is a well known fact that the Holder Alliancxes followed the rules and directives of CVA (What you think of this really depends which side of the conflict you're on more than anything) while it is equally well known that -A- quite simply doesn't give a damn about what U'K wants in their space (Which is arguably provided entirely by -A- and their actions). The relationship is in fact partially inverse: U'K doesn't follow the whims of -A-, but have space thanks to -A- and have a millitary power which is only a fraction of -A-'s. CVA was recognized, particularily by many Ushra'Khan pilots, as being the biggest force in Provibloc (See repeated claims that they could take any provibloc power one on one with their eyes closed... With the exception of CVA who were said to know what the hell they were doing). The Holder Alliances were only a able to exist in 0.0 for so long because of CVA, where U'K can only make such large incursions into Provi because of -A-'s assistance.
Second: U'K did nothing to bring about Provi's fall. It was Provibloc itself that started it when they sought to take advantage of -A-'s war with the Goons to take new territory. Greed has led to this, yes, but it is not a greed related to slavery or anything you fight against.
* Jakiin Torash Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
Uncle Jak wants YOU to join the Khanid Provincial Vanguard! |
Motseth
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Posted - 2010.03.12 15:13:00 -
[7]
CVA attacked AAA because they wanted more territory and because AAA harbors Minmatar Freedom Fighters, UK. I doubt CVA would attack AAA without a reason other than "they are harboring our longtime enemies", they would never have the sympathy of their Provibloc friends if they done that, remember that they are roleplayers. So saying UK has nothing to do with what is happening is a opinion that lacks thinking imho.
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Liteshow
Caldari The Leather Knights Opticon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.12 17:05:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Liteshow on 12/03/2010 17:05:33 Even as a former (and probably still current) enemy of UK, and a former CVA holder, I would have to say I do respect them. There is a lot of chestbeating on both sides regarding the provibloc on Galnet, but in system on open frequency UK will be the first to give you a compliment on your battle style whether winning or losing. I think it's been run into the ground on who is who's pet/muppet/b*tch, and if you field a large enough military force to achieve your goals and represent your selves in the blob, you're doing something right.
Yes, UK didn't take the systems they hold sov in solo. But also, none of the holders have showed up as defense of those systems (or any others under siege) alone either. If you have a large powerbloc as a friend, why not use them?
Note that this is solely my opinion as a former CVA pet that has had many encounters with UK before and during the A attack/retaliation on Provi. I have a lot of respect for nearly all of the UK members I have spoken with. Granted there are a few with big mouths that either initiate of easily fall into local smack talk, but every group has those. And, the vast majority of UK members I encounter are actually quite civil whether winning, losing, or just harassing carebears in local.
I hated that a mistake by my former alliance's executor caused us to lose 2 systems/stations in a matter of days, but at least (once CVA and -A- pulled out) the systems weren't filled pointless smacktalk, and a few pilots would even give (generalized) updates from the warfront, even though we were red to each other...
Please resize sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 - Mitnal |
zoolkhan
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.14 18:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
I applaud the UK. They're walking a difficult path, and they're doing a fine job of it, in my humble opinion. I wish them all the best, and I sincerely hope that their newfound sovereignty will inspire a surge in the anti-slavery movement that will provide them with ample means to defend and to still be able to pursue their anti-slavery offensives with a vengeance.
Ris old friend... good to see youre still alive.
Thanks for the kind words. Does good in between all the propaganda.
recruiting -forum
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zoolkhan
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.14 18:45:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Liteshow . If you have a large powerbloc as a friend, why not use them?
Might also be worth mentioning, that gaining a friend like AAA is more work than opening a convo with an executor.
We have stood by their side for a long duration - before the current campaign. We give what we can, and they return the favor. Like true friends do.
I already had huge respect for them when we were still red to each other , now i respect them even more.
I have very strong doubts, this level of true friendship and mutual respect ever existed between the providence bloc entities.
recruiting -forum
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Maggot
Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.14 21:16:00 -
[11]
Brother, just keep in mind that any sovereignty we hold is meaningless in terms of space holding and empire building. It is nothing but a tool to use in our fight and can be thrown away when not needed. If it is taken away from us then we will fight with another weapon, and with our blood.
Maggot. |
Aria Jenneth
Caldari Kumiho's Smile
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Posted - 2010.03.14 22:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Maggot If it is taken away from us then we will fight with another weapon, and with our blood.
Um.
There has got to be an easier way of getting iron for those rail charges.
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Dame Death
Minmatar Trust Doesn't Rust Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.15 00:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Originally by: Maggot If it is taken away from us then we will fight with another weapon, and with our blood.
Um.
There has got to be an easier way of getting iron for those rail charges.
Once again taking things too litery Aria.
Also Rails suck autos rock
Logs of a Brutor |
Mah Kraah
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.15 03:34:00 -
[14]
greetings Ris, hope life threated u well since u departed. u know us, u knew we would not stop bevore getting into the position we are now. us old idialists are still here, may not as visible as in the early days but still at work on the endless task. i told u it will be years. we took over 2 years to just prepare the scene and we are not even done with that, but for the first time we start to get a idear of the timeframe still needed to make an end to that unholy extention of the enslaving, dark, empire. its still alot to do and i now go back to work. was verry nice to hear from u again. 0>
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Aria Jenneth
Caldari Kumiho's Smile
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Posted - 2010.03.15 04:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dame Death
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Originally by: Maggot If it is taken away from us then we will fight with another weapon, and with our blood.
Um.
There has got to be an easier way of getting iron for those rail charges.
Once again taking things too litery Aria.
Also Rails suck autos rock
Well, I suppose you have to get those plasma munitions from somewhere. Not that anyone really seems to use those.
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ShadowandLight
Amarr Hammer Of Light Primary.
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Posted - 2010.03.15 04:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Butter Dog I do love bitter people who hate the fact we have friends, your Galnet anger makes me chuckle.
Because, of course, CVA do everything alone, don't they?
Bitter, lets be realistic.
The Holder system was implemented by CVA to take a region and make it more manageable. The idea is to let people live how they want to live, and have a small set of rules that governs them.
UK partnered itself with AAA because it never held its own space, and needed to feed off of a much larger superpower to keep members interested and active.
You now are taking advantage of being apart of one of 2 large nap trains in eve. CVA / Holders always were neutral in NC / SC conflicts, where UK has taken a side in matters that for the Amarr and Minnie conflicts means almost zero.
You are trying to push the blame for joining a "nap" train on the fact that CVA fostered / grew other alliances into Providence rather then allow those corps into CVA.
If CVA absorbed all of those "Holders" instead of allowing them their own space / alliances you would still need AAA / Atlas / Stain Wagon to even have a snow ball's chance in hell of getting a foot hold in Providence.
Not to mention needing Dominion Sov Changes / broken large scale warfare to make it possible
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Kelban Kevar
Gallente The Order of Black Knights SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE
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Posted - 2010.03.15 04:58:00 -
[17]
shadow how dare you post stuff on here that make sence dont you know they will flame you for it
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ShadowandLight
Amarr Hammer Of Light Primary.
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Posted - 2010.03.15 05:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kelban Kevar shadow how dare you post stuff on here that make sence dont you know they will flame you for it
yea probably. UK defending its alliance with AAA would be like CVA defending an alliance (that never happened) with Goons.
Sure, if CVA did that it would have been easier to defeat AAA / UK, but CVA and Holders werent about to sell out their ideals for an easy win.
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Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.15 07:14:00 -
[19]
Except UK have not "never held space" - we used to own Northeastern Providence and operate NRDS there before CVA decided they were bored of the UK-CVA conflict, and invited all their friends to join them in territorial warfare.
This placed UK in a position where we would often turn up to fights alone, and CVA would bring all their buddies, hugely outnumber us, and then cry "haha, you don't have any friends".
Well, guess what. We made some friends, and now Providence will burn.
The holder system is nothing but a collection of weak, spineless vassal states who are unable to manage their own diplomatic relations. They are devoid of ambition and combat skill, finding strength only in numbers.
And now the numbers are dwindling, they have nothing. They will be swept aside like the useless vermin they are. ----------
~bitter dog~
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Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc
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Posted - 2010.03.15 09:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 15/03/2010 07:17:26 Except UK have not "never held space" - we used to own Northeastern Providence and operate NRDS there before CVA decided they were bored of the UK-CVA conflict, and invited all their friends to join them in territorial warfare.
This placed UK in a position where we would often turn up to fights alone, and CVA would bring all their buddies, hugely outnumber us, and then cry "haha, you don't have any friends".
Well, guess what. We made some friends, and now Providence will burn.
The holder system is nothing but a collection of weak, spineless vassal states who are unable to manage their own diplomatic relations. They are devoid of ambition and combat skill, finding strength only in numbers.
And now the numbers are dwindling, they have nothing. They will be swept aside like the useless vermin they are.
Also, you don't seem to understand who UK are and what they stand for. We do not fight for the Minmatar Republic. We are not an Empire loyalist organisation like CVA. We are anti-slavery. CVA are slavers.
AAA is a freedom loving alliance who are eradicating the slavers from Providence, an alliance with them is both natural and expected. Comparing that to CVA and Goons just makes you look like you know nothing about UK or what we stand for, hardly a suprise given you were one of the first to cut and run from Providence when the going got a little tough.
Very well said young Butter Dog. It makes an old man very happy to hear there are yet others with long memories figthing the good fight.
I recall some of the Valklear training credos.
"When your gun runs out of ammo, use it as a club. When it is knocked from your grasp, use your fists. When they bind your hands, use your teeth. Never surrender, never stop fighting."
Victory means freedom for our people and the survival of our race! If Ushra'Khan are to be put on trial for the tactics and allies they have used then I must ask their accusers, given the stakes, what weapons or assets should they not use?
Some warriors may fade from the fight yet others rise to take their place. Much like a legend Karn told me once about the teeth of a Dragon.
*cough* ... ack ... Well done Ushra'Khan, not only in your victories but in finding true friends in AAA. Providence burns. They came for our people.
Thrace Inc Poster |
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Stratio
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.15 14:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Pimpertron What I cant understand is why all the chest beating about it
What chest beating are you refering to? _____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
Reash
Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.15 14:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 15/03/2010 07:17:26 Except UK have not "never held space" - we used to own Northeastern Providence and operate NRDS there before CVA decided they were bored of the UK-CVA conflict, and invited all their friends to join them in territorial warfare.
You have a terrible memory butter dog, the "friends" that attacked Unity station were hostile to you because Ushra'khan shot them before any stations even existed in providence.
Others attacked Unity because Ushra'khan allies were attacking them while being allowed to base out of Unity.
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Auctoritan Syndicate Director
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TSSHeratix
Gallente Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.15 14:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Telemicus Thrace
wise words
Ahhh....wise words from my favourite mentor...hope you are keeping safe and killing the slaver hordes Tel....and i hope you are enjoying our resurgence....i know we are.
--------- Your sig is too big. Sigs should be Maximum height: 120 pixels, Maximum width: 400 pixels, Maximum file size: 24,000 bytes (not kbytes) - Karass Sayfo
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.15 15:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Reash
Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 15/03/2010 07:17:26 Except UK have not "never held space" - we used to own Northeastern Providence and operate NRDS there before CVA decided they were bored of the UK-CVA conflict, and invited all their friends to join them in territorial warfare.
You have a terrible memory butter dog, the "friends" that attacked Unity station were hostile to you because Ushra'khan shot them before any stations even existed in providence.
Others attacked Unity because Ushra'khan allies were attacking them while being allowed to base out of Unity.
you got it all wrong they shot us first and didnt like that we started owning the **** out of them then emoraged to cva abut the unfairness of picking a fight they coudnt win
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
Reash
Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.15 16:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lilan Kahn
you got it all wrong they shot us first and didnt like that we started owning the **** out of them then emoraged to cva abut the unfairness of picking a fight they coudnt win
Quite simply untrue, i was personally involved in discussions with Ushra'khan leadership in an attempt to cease Ushra'khan hostilities against neutral entities.
Ushra'khan refused. -----------------------
Auctoritan Syndicate Director
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Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.15 16:10:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Butter Dog on 15/03/2010 16:14:21
Originally by: Reash
Originally by: Lilan Kahn
you got it all wrong they shot us first and didnt like that we started owning the **** out of them then emoraged to cva abut the unfairness of picking a fight they coudnt win
Quite simply untrue, i was personally involved in discussions with Ushra'khan leadership in an attempt to cease Ushra'khan hostilities against neutral entities.
Ushra'khan refused.
Neutral to you, perhaps.
You seem to forget UK wasn't one of your pets you could dictate standings toward.
My own corporation has NEVER respected CVA's ROE, setting our own standings, but we did respect UK's ROE in their space. We've been entirely consistent in our disregard of your regime of puppet states, and entirely consistent in our support and respect of UK's ROE.
UK understand the meaning of the term 'neutral' - to you, it's just another pet to control, telling who they can and cannot shoot.
----------
~bitter dog~
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Reash
Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.15 18:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 15/03/2010 16:14:21
Originally by: Reash
Originally by: Lilan Kahn
you got it all wrong they shot us first and didnt like that we started owning the **** out of them then emoraged to cva abut the unfairness of picking a fight they coudnt win
Quite simply untrue, i was personally involved in discussions with Ushra'khan leadership in an attempt to cease Ushra'khan hostilities against neutral entities.
Ushra'khan refused.
Neutral to you, perhaps.
You seem to forget UK wasn't one of your pets you could dictate standings toward.
My own corporation has NEVER respected CVA's ROE, setting our own standings, but we did respect UK's ROE in their space. We've been entirely consistent in our disregard of your regime of puppet states, and entirely consistent in our support and respect of UK's ROE.
UK understand the meaning of the term 'neutral' - to you, it's just another pet to control, telling who they can and cannot shoot.
You misunderstand Butters, this was when CVA first moved to the Misaba area, Ushra'khan were shooting pilots we had no interactions with. We requested they keep neutrals out of the crossfire.
Ushra'khan refused. Perhaps that is clearer?
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Auctoritan Syndicate Director
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Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.15 19:22:00 -
[28]
You tried to tell UK how to manage their standings all the way back then?
Well I guess some things never change. ----------
~bitter dog~
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Maggot
Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.15 21:17:00 -
[29]
A neutral is someone who has no affairs relating to any party in a given conflict.
"Neutrals" shot by Ushra'khan were working with CVA or operating in CVA space. Thus not neutral by any definition. They were collaborating with slavers thus subject to our weapon fire. |
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2010.03.15 21:31:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 15/03/2010 21:30:58
Originally by: Maggot A neutral is someone who has no affairs relating to any party in a given conflict.
"Neutrals" shot by Ushra'khan were working with CVA or operating in CVA space. Thus not neutral by any definition. They were collaborating with slavers thus subject to our weapon fire.
Then pray tell mr. Maggot, since mere presence in claimed space is enough to consider someone not a neutral, and almost all space in the universe is claimed in one way or another, what is a neutral according to you? Do they even exist?
Am I a collaborator of the Republic by flying through their space? Are you a collaborator of the Amarr Empire by buying goods in Amarr?
Please enlighten us. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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