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namron 7
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Posted - 2010.03.19 21:20:00 -
[1]
Hello i have been playing for a few weeks and i upgraded to the full account and i have been trying everything before i specialise.
But i do have a number of questions
1. I have looked at blueprints and the bill of materials required for T1 ships. Almost all of them are being sold under the price of the minerals that produced them. So are people mining the stuff themselves and dont realise that they are losing money building ships or when i see "perfect requirements" can this be lowered even further.
2. is there any way i can find a chart that tells me what 1 unit of an ore will produce in minerals so i can plan better. as in how many units of of tritanium will one unit of veldspar produce
many thanks for your help
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Xyla Kador
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Posted - 2010.03.19 21:32:00 -
[2]
1
2
also note that the numbers given in #2's link are assuming u have perfect refining skills with no tax
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Iamien
Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.03.19 21:35:00 -
[3]
Most people that build ships setup buy orders for minerals that are below market price, or mine themselves. Lets say Trit is available to buy for 2 isk/unit. They wont buy at 2 isk/unit. they put up buy orders for 1-1.5 isk/unit(These are the orders you sell to if you quickly sell minerals).
Secondly there is no 1 chart that i know but there are wikis full of information for you to get. They tell you how many minerals per batch. Batch sizes are anywhere from 5 units to 500 units. Here is an example for veldspar. Please note that those yields are with max refining skills.
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.03.19 23:31:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Zartrader on 19/03/2010 23:44:29
Just to add there are several ways to make it cheaper for production.
1. Refining, Refinery Efficiency and maybe some specific ore and module/ship refine skills means up to 12.5% less waste when you refine or reprocess.
2. Blue Print Material Research gets up to another 10% less materials needed
3. Production Efficiency gets you up to 20% less materials needed (that's the difference you see between 'you' and 'perfect'. Perfect does not include material efficiency research though from 2. above)
The above stacks so you can see it's possible for you to make a loss on an item but others to make a decent profit as the difference can be nearly half the price to produce.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.03.21 13:09:00 -
[5]
The other thing is to personally research what you are going to sell before you even buy the blue print, including - where you are going to sell it. You can make a profit on just about anything if you find someplace where people really want it. Unfortunately there's no short cut for that but a lot of grunt work and an understanding of the game. The first thing to understand is that the trade hubs can be the worst places to sell something. You've got everyone and their brother there to compete with and often within the same base. Post something for sale and five minutes later - someone has blindly under cut you with no regard for the mineral value of what they are selling. Take your goods out where people are using them - and if you can save them the trip to the trade hub - many people will pay you a reasonable - or even an unreasonable - price for them.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Merouk Baas
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Posted - 2010.03.21 13:34:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Merouk Baas on 21/03/2010 13:34:31
T1 ships are, basically, beginner ships, and there are a lot of people making them, so there's quite a bit of surplus on the market.
The "perfect" requirements can be reduced a bit, like it's been said, but mostly the prices are affected by several things:
- Not everybody gets the "minerals are not free" and "losing money" concepts.
- Not everybody is motivated by profit when they sell things. Sometimes they're just in a hurry, and out of 300,000 accounts, you're bound to have at least 1 person "in a hurry" every day, thus resulting in perpetual pricing silliness.
- Not all sellers are manufacturers. Sometimes, you open a freighter, or you steal a corp's assets, and, you know, you'd rather have cash than a stack of 1,328 silly ships.
EDIT: lern 2 count
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.03.21 14:14:00 -
[7]
What a lot of people don't get - is the difference between what it cost them to acquire something and it's value once they have it.
There is a tendency to equate somethings value with it's cost to them (which is known) instead of what they could sell it for (which is often unknown since it fluctuates over time and location).
The next part - is the difference between the amount of money they made selling something when comparing it to what it cost them as opposed to comparing it to what they could have sold it (or it's mineral content) for.
If they sell it for more than it cost them - they believe they have made a profit - which by the common interpretation of the word they have. However they have failed to maximize the profits they could have had - by selling things in a different way (such as simply selling the minerals rather than making something out of them).
The trouble here - and why you will ALWAYS have this situation - is that determining somethings actual value is difficult and that difficulty increases the greater the number of minerals it is made out of.
I've had this discussion where someone stated that the value of a specific mineral could only be determined at Jita - which is absurd. These people are completely leaving the transportation of the item out of the picture and transportation is sometimes a major factor in the list of costs one accumulates. Transportation costs however are even harder to discern than mineral values. What is your time worth? How do you depreciate the cost of your ship over time?
For people playing a computer game who aren't used to using spread sheets - all the potential calculations involved can quickly move manufacturing from the "fun" side of things to the "work" side of things.
Thus, determining what something cost them as opposed to some theoretical value it might have is vastly easier. Determining it's practical value even harder. Most people are going to come down on the side of what something cost them however unfortunate that decision may be for them. Once they understand the concept of somethings value - and all the work that is going to go into determining that value - they throw up their hands and go run missions or just sell their minerals.
*shrug*
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
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