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Ayari
Caldari Flying Monkey Squad
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Posted - 2010.03.20 11:35:00 -
[1]
I think a lot of people would agree that the amount of Titans in game nowadays has become somewhat absurd, and if this trend is to continue, eventually fleet combat will be entire fleets of titans one shotting each other with doomsdays. I have a proposal to reverse this trend that I would like some constructive feedback on.
Titans were originally meant to be so expensive in mineral cost that alliances could only possibly afford one. However, this is not the case, as alliances seem to make so much money that the cost of a Titan is almost trivial. What I suggest is a concept that will not be unknown to strategy gamers, and is quite apt, as a Titan is a *strategic* asset. I am of course talking about 'Upkeep'.
I propose that to operate a Titan, an alliance should need to pay a monthly upkeep cost, the price of which should be high enough to make it economically unfeasible for an alliance to maintain an increasing amount of Titans and still manage to remain solvent. This cost would have to be dynamic to stop it becoming trivial to afford over time.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.03.20 11:51:00 -
[2]
Why don't we wait and see what until the full effects of the Dominion changes have rippled out? Titans and motherships are being used a lot more in much more dangerous situations than before and many more have died in the past months than in the time before the change.
Besides, upkeep costs for a ship that is permanently in space would be silly. What if the pilot goes AFK from game?
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.03.20 11:55:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sokratesz Why don't we wait and see what until the full effects of the Dominion changes have rippled out?
We are aware of the effects. It failed.
Supporting.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.20 12:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Sokratesz Why don't we wait and see what until the full effects of the Dominion changes have rippled out?
We are aware of the effects. It failed.
Supporting.
oh really? i saw more titans die after dominion than before.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.03.20 12:35:00 -
[5]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Sokratesz Why don't we wait and see what until the full effects of the Dominion changes have rippled out?
We are aware of the effects. It failed.
Supporting.
Derp?
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
Ayari
Caldari Flying Monkey Squad
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Posted - 2010.03.20 12:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Besides, upkeep costs for a ship that is permanently in space would be silly. What if the pilot goes AFK from game?
The cost would be optional, failure to pay would simply stop that Titan from being able to move that month, which is just the same as the pilot being AFK from EVE.
I don't see a problem with alliances having reserves of Titans, but only being to deploy a selected few.
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Yaay
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
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Posted - 2010.03.20 12:53:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Yaay on 20/03/2010 12:53:51
Originally by: Sokratesz Why don't we wait and see what until the full effects of the Dominion changes have rippled out? Titans and motherships are being used a lot more in much more dangerous situations than before and many more have died in the past months than in the time before the change.
Besides, upkeep costs for a ship that is permanently in space would be silly. What if the pilot goes AFK from game?
There have been like 5 Legit titan deaths in about 3 full months of game play. That's not out of the ordinary compared to Pre Dominion numbers. Of those 5, Not counting the server **** up on PL, I think 4 were acting solo, and stupidly. That was a similar problem before the change and an increase in stupid people, or people just doing stupid things seems to coincided with an overall increase in active titan numbers in game. So it's hard to credit any of these deaths to good old fashioned kills.
As for the OP idea, NO. I do agree that there needs to be a wait and see approach atm. Hopefully, The Devs will make some major changes to titan/mom mechanics that will prevent a lot of this gayness from continuing. Go figure, My prediction was right. It's becoming far to common to siege towers with just Super capitals and a large support fleet rather than use dreads that can be 1 shot and get stuck for 10 minutes, and warp scrammed by towers.
Thanks CCP, really show you thought this one out.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.03.20 13:54:00 -
[8]
Regardless of the circumstances, that's 10 titans lost in three months and there have been many occasions where titans were fielded, got tackled but survived due to hax, luck or skill. Motherships are once more useful and 2 died just yesterday..I'm sticking to my original post, the effects still need to ripple out, people are still adjusting to the new situation.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.20 15:25:00 -
[9]
But lets be realistic, in the same time way more new titans were most likely produced than destroyed.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.03.20 15:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Furb Killer But lets be realistic, in the same time way more new titans were most likely produced than destroyed.
That's probably true, but it's become less easy to build them with the new sov mechanics. Many titans are however never used in combat, and thus are no problem for anyone.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.03.20 16:29:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 20/03/2010 16:29:15
Originally by: darius mclever oh really? i saw more titans die after dominion than before.
Tecnically correct but now that those wars are decided and the large blocs are at peace?
With PL and Goons gone, -A- being on friendly terms with Atlas and IT and the NC doing god knows what there is nothing left to kill the remaining 300+ Titans.
It will probably be years before the power structures are shaken up again which means that super-capital numbers will increase just like they did during the last lull in large scale war (between Delve 1 and 2).
Maintenance costs on what was supposed to be rare, bordering on unique, ships is pretty much the only avenue left to stop the numbers from increasing even further.
Supported until CCP gets their thumbs out and makes sovereignty bills matter and discourages the vast empty spaces in null-sec sphere of influences.
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Jack bubu
Lyonesse. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.20 16:38:00 -
[12]
To "reduce" number of titans ingame, simply fix the logoff timer on them. happened countless times that a titan was tackled but could logoff before enough firepower could arive to kill him in time, thanks to the HP buff.
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.03.20 18:42:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jack bubu To "reduce" number of titans ingame, simply fix the logoff timer on them. happened countless times that a titan was tackled but could logoff before enough firepower could arive to kill him in time, thanks to the HP buff.
Bring more friends?
Say you got a well fitted shieldtanked titan with 50 mil EHP, and you tackle him. When he hits half shield, he decided '**** this', and logs off. You now have 15 minutes to kill 25 mil EHP, something that 4 motherships -or- 10 dreads can easily accomplish. And that's not even counting possible DD's of your own!
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
Tactical Miner
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Posted - 2010.03.20 18:43:00 -
[14]
As progression in the game continues, balancing is necessary.
It would be far more practical to introduce a super expensive mobile titan killer that has the upkeep you are looking for, but does not rob players who do not yet have a titan of the chance to fly one.
Don't kill the dream, kill the titan.
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Jack bubu
Lyonesse. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.20 20:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Jack bubu To "reduce" number of titans ingame, simply fix the logoff timer on them. happened countless times that a titan was tackled but could logoff before enough firepower could arive to kill him in time, thanks to the HP buff.
Bring more friends?
Say you got a well fitted shieldtanked titan with 50 mil EHP, and you tackle him. When he hits half shield, he decided '**** this', and logs off. You now have 15 minutes to kill 25 mil EHP, something that 4 motherships -or- 10 dreads can easily accomplish. And that's not even counting possible DD's of your own!
Imagine this, titan logs off as soon as he is tackled
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.03.21 13:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jack bubu
Imagine this, titan logs off as soon as he is tackled
Then he might well not have been there in the first place. The DD as it is now is just an extra, its the weapon DPS that matters so a titan is only worth something when he's on the field shooting stuff.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
domitesting
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Posted - 2010.03.21 15:30:00 -
[17]
its funny...excellent yes more titans died and no more kill all button...which is what we wanted...however the problem remains is that the big alliances have got SOOOOO much cash and resources that they can build 10 for everyone they lose.. im mean look at the last turnout 32 titans in a fleet - Jeezzzz
2 titans max allowed in system - simple
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.03.21 16:33:00 -
[18]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 21/03/2010 16:33:39
Originally by: darius mclever
oh really? i saw more titans die after dominion than before.
oh really? i saw more titans builded after dominion than before.
You see what i did here ?
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Sokratesz
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Posted - 2010.03.21 17:19:00 -
[19]
Why do people think having lots of titans in-game is a problem? Only if they are being used can they be of any advantage.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.21 17:43:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sokratesz Why do people think having lots of titans in-game is a problem? Only if they are being used can they be of any advantage.
they might be still butthurt because they got one shot in their carriers.
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Ayari
Caldari Flying Monkey Squad
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Posted - 2010.03.21 18:24:00 -
[21]
Originally by: darius mclever
they might be still butthurt because they got one shot in their carriers.
Non of my characters have ever trained for a capital ship, to be honest, the whole capitals thing bores me. However, I played Star Wars Galaxies back in the day, and the same thing that is happening with Titans happened with Jedi. If you create a top tier item/weapon/class that is supposed to be rare, over time the player base will gravitate towards that goal, because in MMOs, it's all just a matter of time.
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Eri'kana Motugi
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Posted - 2010.03.21 18:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: domitesting its funny...excellent yes more titans died and no more kill all button...which is what we wanted...however the problem remains is that the big alliances have got SOOOOO much cash and resources that they can build 10 for everyone they lose.. im mean look at the last turnout 32 titans in a fleet - Jeezzzz
2 titans max allowed in system - simple
You make it sound as if only alliances pay for titans. I know several Titan pilots that paid for their titans out of their own pocket, and what about those Titan pilots who aren't members of space holding alliances or corps? How did they get their Titan? There are a lot of those out there.
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Oghma Grianainech
Minmatar The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.03.22 12:09:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ayari
Originally by: darius mclever
they might be still butthurt because they got one shot in their carriers.
Non of my characters have ever trained for a capital ship, to be honest, the whole capitals thing bores me. However, I played Star Wars Galaxies back in the day, and the same thing that is happening with Titans happened with Jedi. If you create a top tier item/weapon/class that is supposed to be rare, over time the player base will gravitate towards that goal, because in MMOs, it's all just a matter of time.
/me thinks OP is jealous of shinny big toys and his lack of ability to compensate. Clouded his mind is.
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Kayakaue
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Posted - 2010.03.22 15:26:00 -
[24]
Make some small modification.
The titan or super caps don't go away if it's tacked (logs off or not).
Remote the income passif (moon mining). Perhaps new barge to mine moon.
Less income, less titan for the biggest alliance
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.22 15:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kayakaue Make some small modification.
The titan or super caps don't go away if it's tacked (logs off or not).
Remote the income passif (moon mining). Perhaps new barge to mine moon.
Less income, less titan for the biggest alliance
you realize that: a) many titan pilots bought the titans from their own pocket and not from alliance b) that moon mining got a nice nerf bat in dominion?
welcome to dominion.
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Kayakaue
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Posted - 2010.03.22 16:33:00 -
[26]
Quote: you realize that: a) many titan pilots bought the titans from their own pocket and not from alliance b) that moon mining got a nice nerf bat in dominion?
welcome to dominion.
Dominion nerf nothing about moon mining before dominion it's was passive income, now it's also passive income.
After my proposition it's always possible than some pilot buy their titan.
But if some alliance must be began to work to buy their capital fleet, that will be better, because now it's stupid some alliance loose 45 capitals one days and the days after with insurance un moon mining are the money to buy all of the lost.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.22 16:39:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kayakaue
Quote: you realize that: a) many titan pilots bought the titans from their own pocket and not from alliance b) that moon mining got a nice nerf bat in dominion?
welcome to dominion.
Dominion nerf nothing about moon mining before dominion it's was passive income, now it's also passive income.
After my proposition it's always possible than some pilot buy their titan.
But if some alliance must be began to work to buy their capital fleet, that will be better, because now it's stupid some alliance loose 45 capitals one days and the days after with insurance un moon mining are the money to buy all of the lost.
maybe ask the dyspro and prom moon owners before doing such a statement. oh and while you are at it ... talk to NC about all the nice technetium moons in the north.
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Trader Jen
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Posted - 2010.03.23 07:46:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Trader Jen on 23/03/2010 07:47:27
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Furb Killer But lets be realistic, in the same time way more new titans were most likely produced than destroyed.
That's probably true, but it's become less easy to build them with the new sov mechanics. Many titans are however never used in combat, and thus are no problem for anyone.
b/c SO MANY baby titans have perished since dominion, right? More titans and moms are being produced now than at any given point before the dominion patch.
While the patch gave these ships the roles they so desperately needed, CCP did not take into account that it would only be a matter of a year before all 0.0 fleet warfare is a cluster of titans and motherships battling it out.
If you thought the whines were bad when Eve began its trip down the path of Capitals Online...wait til the game turns into SUPER-CAPS Online.
edited for support
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domitesting
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Posted - 2010.03.23 09:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Trader Jen Edited by: Trader Jen on 23/03/2010 07:47:27
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Furb Killer But lets be realistic, in the same time way more new titans were most likely produced than destroyed.
That's probably true, but it's become less easy to build them with the new sov mechanics. Many titans are however never used in combat, and thus are no problem for anyone.
b/c SO MANY baby titans have perished since dominion, right? More titans and moms are being produced now than at any given point before the dominion patch.
While the patch gave these ships the roles they so desperately needed, CCP did not take into account that it would only be a matter of a year before all 0.0 fleet warfare is a cluster of titans and motherships battling it out.
If you thought the whines were bad when Eve began its trip down the path of Capitals Online...wait til the game turns into SUPER-CAPS Online.
edited for support
You know hes got a point there....
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Kayakaue
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Posted - 2010.03.23 10:50:00 -
[30]
I have never sale so much bpc of capital parts. If that continue that will be posssible to see some fight with more 200 super capital on the field.
Some big alliance now began to build more than 10 mothership per months.
For me they are really a big problem.
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