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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Grideris
Alien Ship Builders
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Posted - 2010.03.31 15:59:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Catari Taga Edited by: Catari Taga on 31/03/2010 14:46:07
Originally by: Sjolus The thought behind it was to make an easy tool with all the data in it up-front for when it does go live. The datadumps rarely come out the same date as the expansion itself.
Exactly, you'll basically need an organizational chart breaking down the end product into the production chains, which will be fairly easy to realize with the data. For the last expansion the datadump was released even one week before the expansion itself, and even if it is not you can use one of the cache file reader libraries to extract it (the schematics* tables). Details are probably better discussed in the tech labs forums rather than in this feedback thread.
edit: @Grideris, the game data lists 68 schematics in case you want to double check your number (didn't dl your file)
Yep, that means I got them all. Thanks.
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Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2010.03.31 16:10:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Lord Helghast I REALLY REALLY HOPE that we can except a devblog soon with an estimate of PI's planned completion features, like any hope of population still? Polution control? Will we be seeing t3 frigates still? Trade agreements? Treaties? Honestly Tyrannis release is closing in and we arent getting much of any devblogs really, anything would be nice... So much was promised and just havent been hearing much of anything recently.
This.
If what we see on SiSi is representative of the progres, then delay the expansion, there appears to be miles to go in the balancing.
A bit more on what you aim for with it would be great as well. Like how timesinky and manpower heavy are you aiming for, which will give us a good indication what segment of the population you are aiming this at.
Current numbers on sisi suggest that it will be a logistical nightmare to make a end (high)end product, given how much MW get used up just for extractors or processors, meaning managing a forest of planets - or making forest of players haul tiny amounts of stuff to markets, and then others hauling that to the planets that does another processing step... until somewhere down the road the product has become hopelessly expensive, since "time is not free" will be applied.
That is: why spend severely underpaid time doing haul upon haul upon haul...(doing the necessary amount of logistics) if you could be making isk mining or whatever instead.
Also, will there be no SP investment to play this part of the game? Will existing skills (industry and science mainly, perhaps fittings skills like engineering for more grid and electronics for more cpu) play a role? Perhaps in limiting how many extractors (new skill), how many processors/factories (industry,mass production, etc), efficiency (PE), better detection of deposits (survey).
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Horchan
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.31 16:33:00 -
[63]
A few UI/accessibility issues I have with this build:
* The 'Submit' button is in an odd place. For myself personally it was visible from the get go, but I also have an odd window layout. It's hidden behind a majority of people's chat window.
* Creating routes by double clicking and no real visual (like creating links) is somewhat counter-intuitive. Adding more to the right click menu might work, but I can see some of the limitations of that. Still, making this more intuitive will make things more coherent.
* Along with both of these, and I realize this is most likely a bug, clicking 'Submit' should not reset everything, including the current cycle on processors (which incidentally makes them waste whatever materials they had).
* Why can't extractors scan for a second deposit once the first deposit runs out? Wouldn't it make more sense to use existing infrastructure and links instead of removing them all and creating new ones?
Nevertheless, this build is really leaps and bounds ahead of the last build, and I'm curious to see how much more it improves over the next month. ---
DesuSigs |
Imuran
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Posted - 2010.03.31 16:44:00 -
[64]
Real big issues with the scanning interface - red/green color blind here and struggling. Maybe not overlaying the scanner on top of the planet background might help - just overlay it on some neutral color
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Sjolus
Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.03.31 16:52:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Horchan * Why can't extractors scan for a second deposit once the first deposit runs out? Wouldn't it make more sense to use existing infrastructure and links instead of removing them all and creating new ones?
My ones can. Sometimes. But sometimes they just fail.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.03.31 16:52:00 -
[66]
There are no command centers available for Shattered Planets, e.g. Seyllin I. I suppose this is by design? --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.03.31 16:58:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Horchan * Storage facilities currently seem useless unless you're extracting/producing far away from your PCC or launchpad. Processors seem to act as storage as well, though I haven't seen how much it can store. When I had a storage in line between extractors and a processor, it was constantly empty.
I'd say on the contrary, because of current CPU/PG limitations it is much more efficient to first collect raw materials in silo(s) and only drop a processor once that is full. At least with the extractor rates I've seen.
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Lord Helghast
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Posted - 2010.03.31 17:41:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Imuran Real big issues with the scanning interface - red/green color blind here and struggling. Maybe not overlaying the scanner on top of the planet background might help - just overlay it on some neutral color
I'd suggest them go grayscale on the planet itself during scan mode, then have the overlay of scan colored that wud be my suggestion :)
Originally by: Catari Taga
Originally by: Horchan * Storage facilities currently seem useless unless you're extracting/producing far away from your PCC or launchpad. Processors seem to act as storage as well, though I haven't seen how much it can store. When I had a storage in line between extractors and a processor, it was constantly empty.
I'd say on the contrary, because of current CPU/PG limitations it is much more efficient to first collect raw materials in silo(s) and only drop a processor once that is full. At least with the extractor rates I've seen.
I dont think people get that lots of links + long links = sucking their CPU/PG dry
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Dierdra Vaal
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2010.03.31 18:15:00 -
[69]
Very good progress! some feedback (my test system was BMNV-P):
1: Move the 'Submit' and 'Cancel' buttons - they were hiding underneath my chatwindows and I spent ages looking for them. Making them more noticable would be good.
2: Make it clear when you need to 'submit' your infrastructure for it to work. Several times now I've been wondering why my processors werent processing when I had just forgotten to 'submit' my latest route. Director of Education :: EVE University
CSM1 delegate and CSM3 chairman
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Grideris
Alien Ship Builders
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Posted - 2010.03.31 18:19:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Lord Helghast
Originally by: Imuran Real big issues with the scanning interface - red/green color blind here and struggling. Maybe not overlaying the scanner on top of the planet background might help - just overlay it on some neutral color
I'd suggest them go grayscale on the planet itself during scan mode, then have the overlay of scan colored that wud be my suggestion :)
I agree with that - would make a hell of a lot easier. Maybe make it an option.
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Lord Helghast
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Posted - 2010.03.31 18:34:00 -
[71]
I love the idea that things arent set in stone till you submit, but their should be a note somwhere of this, and those damn buttons do need to relocate :)
It's nice that they don't autoactivate till you submit, because i would believe that these extractors and storage etc would cost money????? Also wouldnt it make sense if their was a deployment time after submission so that things aren't instant???? It just doesnt make sense that i clicka button and an entire network comes online, yet deploying a tower takes an hour... im not saying it should take an hour to deploy a extractor, but their should be some type of delay for construction on the surface.... also im surprised that this update we still arent really seeing pricing for deployment of structures, they seem to build from no where. Unless i'm wrong, are all of these things packed inside the PCC really????
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Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2010.03.31 19:48:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Lord Helghast Will we be seeing t3 frigates still?
If you go around expecting them to add a feature that was never going to be included in Tyrranis, you will only end up disappointed. -----
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TRM Sharku
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.31 20:46:00 -
[73]
Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer
* Only the Temperate command centers are seeded on the market. The other types are available through the redeeming system.
Redeeming system = LP Store? If so, any clue as to what factions/corporations/corporate divisions?
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Alberik
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Posted - 2010.03.31 20:49:00 -
[74]
Originally by: TRM Sharku
Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer
* Only the Temperate command centers are seeded on the market. The other types are available through the redeeming system.
Redeeming system = LP Store? If so, any clue as to what factions/corporations/corporate divisions?
Look at your log-in screen where you select your character
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Sjolus
Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.03.31 21:05:00 -
[75]
Originally by: TRM Sharku
Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer
* Only the Temperate command centers are seeded on the market. The other types are available through the redeeming system.
Redeeming system = LP Store? If so, any clue as to what factions/corporations/corporate divisions?
When logged in, hit the escape-key then press Redeem Items lawl.
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Gotrek65
Caldari Nex Exercitus IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.31 21:18:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Gotrek65 on 31/03/2010 21:23:40 Has anyone found any Planktic Colonies on the planets there are none scanable in fd-mlj or 3-DMQT or any other system i've been too... are they only available in water planets or something? Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.Applebabe |
SXYGeeK
Gallente do you Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2010.03.31 21:33:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Gotrek65 Edited by: Gotrek65 on 31/03/2010 21:23:40 Has anyone found any Planktic Colonies on the planets there are none scanable in fd-mlj or 3-DMQT or any other system i've been too... are they only available in water planets or something?
Only available in Oceanic planets which are somewhat uncommon. I found one with good scans in F-N (Pure Blind) , planet 1.
-We So SeXy |
TRM Sharku
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.31 21:38:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Alberik
Look at your log-in screen where you select your character
Ah, gotcha, thanks.
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eraseravengers
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Posted - 2010.03.31 21:38:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Imuran Real big issues with the scanning interface - red/green color blind here and struggling. Maybe not overlaying the scanner on top of the planet background might help - just overlay it on some neutral color
Same here sadly, can barely make out the results.
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Gotrek65
Caldari Nex Exercitus IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.31 21:40:00 -
[80]
anyone got some PCCs other than temperate i can buy or have? Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.Applebabe |
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SXYGeeK
Gallente do you Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2010.03.31 22:11:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Gotrek65 anyone got some PCCs other than temperate i can buy or have?
perhaps if you people weren't trying to kill me every time i log in these days....
Anyways, I did a workup of all processes and It's in this thread... also have a google spreadsheet version available there. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1294314 -We So SeXy |
Gotrek65
Caldari Nex Exercitus IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.31 22:27:00 -
[82]
What would be really nice is an image that depicts each process from the advanced combination down to the base elements. since the more advanced processes use base elements. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.Applebabe |
Lister829
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.31 23:22:00 -
[83]
Expedited transfer works very well but only from one storage facility to another or to / from PCC. Cannot transfer excess materials from the factory storage back to storage facility Have not tried expedited transfer from storage to factory, but I doubt that would work.
I am using remote storage at my resource field - 1 storage facility right next to 4 to 5 extractors. All the extractors route to the storage. When the extractors finish their cycles, I will link the storage to my PCC and do expedited transfer. Then I will decommission the resource field. Then I will build a storage close to the PCC, expedite transfer enough raw materials for exact run(s) and link that to a factory. When the process is done, will decommission the temp storage and factory.
Rinse and repeat |
Elana Lekith
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Posted - 2010.03.31 23:23:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Elana Lekith on 31/03/2010 23:26:04 Edited by: Elana Lekith on 31/03/2010 23:24:43 I've set up a production of mechanical parts on a desert planet of Ishisomo IX. It is fairly rich with noble (a little more then half the bar full) and basic (around half the bar full).
With two extractors (for basic and noble metals) and three barren basic industry facilities within the orange zone I was able to set up two stage manufacturing on one planet even though using non-optimal configuration (I could have partially redone it but didn't want to do it again from the ground up for a second time).
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1449/eveteststar.jpg - this picture shows the final result of my experiments.
1) The best configuration I could come up with is star-shaped structure with storage at the center as a hub. I found out that the limiting factor were the links. They massively eat CPU even on short distances. I never even approached the limit of power grid. I made a mistake by placing my command center too far from mines and that link which is not by any means long on planetary scale eats up 25% of all your available CPU. It makes players gravitate to placing structures as much closer to each other as possible which makes the whole pattern almost unreadable. It's not a good idea to allow this design to be effective.
I think those links should maybe have some base CPU and PG requirements and when they span longer then say 500 or 1000km they require more.
Also upgrading routs sounds like madness since they are the choke point of the whole system even without increased CPU requirements.
Also I think another configuration could be effective. We have two star shaped hubs: one near command center for production with storage as a center, and another near the mines with another storage in the center. There is only one long 'highway' between the two storages in this configuration.
2) As you can see from the picture, I configured routs to transport 5-6 units of extracted ore to the storage and 6000 units from there to the production centers. I would naturally expect ore to amass at storage until 6000 units enough for production are mined. But the system just transports the ore to the production facility as sson as it is mined.
3) I have a huge concern about deposits' capacity. As you can see, there is an abundant amount of resources on the planet I use and I extract them at one of the best spots. Still deposits last from 9 to 11 hours each. That means that I have to log at least once every 9-11 hours, like before work and after work and since those timers are not exactly 12 hours each those times will be constantly shifting. I don't know how far will player be able to interact with his planets (i tried to do it for 1 system away and it worked) but it means you have to be logged in at the exact few minutes to rescan and change to a new mineral deposit to keep your factories going. You got traffic jam? Your connection failed? Want to go see a movie? Ok. But your eve production gets screwed up.
Also when you only run 1 mine for each (as in my test) you produce 5 mechanic parts every 24 hours. According to eve central average selling price for 1 unit of those is 40k isk. That means you have 200k isk a day from one planet. That means you need tons of mines to make any decent money. That means TONS of different timers to manage. Seems like a full time job to me. Why bother when those 1 NPC battleship I can kill in under a minute with much less fuss have nice 500k bounty on it? Those timers must be eliminate with extreme prejudice.
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Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2010.03.31 23:29:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Imuran Real big issues with the scanning interface - red/green color blind here and struggling. Maybe not overlaying the scanner on top of the planet background might help - just overlay it on some neutral color
Damn. I was hoping CCP had *finally* gotten the memo about not designing interfaces that don't work for ten percent of their player base. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Di Mulle
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Posted - 2010.04.01 00:41:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Di Mulle on 01/04/2010 00:45:38
Originally by: Elana Lekith
3) I have a huge concern about deposits' capacity. As you can see, there is an abundant amount of resources on the planet I use and I extract them at one of the best spots. Still deposits last from 9 to 11 hours each. That means that I have to log at least once every 9-11 hours, like before work and after work and since those timers are not exactly 12 hours each those times will be constantly shifting. I don't know how far will player be able to interact with his planets (i tried to do it for 1 system away and it worked) but it means you have to be logged in at the exact few minutes to rescan and change to a new mineral deposit to keep your factories going. You got traffic jam? Your connection failed? Want to go see a movie? Ok. But your eve production gets screwed up.
Also when you only run 1 mine for each (as in my test) resource you use you produce 5 mechanic parts every 24 hours. According to eve central average selling price for 1 unit of those is 40k isk. That means you have 200k isk a day from one planet. That means you need tons of mines to make any decent money. That means TONS of different timers to manage. Seems like a full time job to me. Why bother when those 1 NPC battleship I can kill in under a minute with much less fuss have nice 500k bounty on it? Those timers must be eliminate with extreme prejudice.
My guess it is an attempt to implement something in between of afk activity like moon mining and activity requiring constant presence. After all, you cant rat at all if you got traffic jam or go to movie - at all, right ? You still can have some hours of automatic action on planets.
Maybe an inability to keep constant flow is meant to be a kind of limiting factor... I can't be sure, but it looks like that. Like, you need to solve a sort of puzzle everyday to have production going and have income.
Maybe the 9-11 hr cycles are too short, maybe they will be adjusted some, who knows. Like more differentiation between deposits, those with bigger output per cycle will be short, others may last a day or more. But the basic principle will stay, I can bet on that.
The income level you gave is pretty meh, but we still can't see all outputs. Also, I am pretty convinced that in any case planets will not be a major income source and most probably were never meant to be.
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gibdinn
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Posted - 2010.04.01 02:27:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Lister829
Not only is this interface unlike anything else in EVE, it is also very limiting.
The functionality is getting closer to POS moon mining, which is not a good thing, It is boring and tedious.
hmm.. very much true. devs are having same guy who designed pos interaction - designing planet interaction also? might need fresh blood in that department.
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Desert Ice78
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Posted - 2010.04.01 03:24:00 -
[88]
This needs asap a drop down menu associated with each planet listing all extractors, manufacturing bases, storage etc. on the planet, the status of each and a "rotate planet to view" button
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Leona StarFiner
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Posted - 2010.04.01 03:40:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Leona StarFiner on 01/04/2010 03:40:28 Issue that i have found out to this moment:
1) It is impossible to Split Stack when transering goods between buildings (The only way to overcome this is to send goods to space then split it in cargo and send back in smaller stacks (and then storing them in differen storages))
2) It is impossible to setup new extraction after depletion of resources in extractor (It is possible to destroy old one and build new one, but i have 63 Extractors for god sake and rebuilding them all and making new Links is insane)
3) Processors are working strangely and don't start sometimes even if they have plenty of resources (i mean more then enough), and it takes them a lot of time to understand that they may build something. And actually then usually do one cycle then stop wait for something again and after some time do another cycle.
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Leona StarFiner
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Posted - 2010.04.01 04:16:00 -
[90]
And one more problem:
If i search for a new resource with extractor, without changing routes, and i choose a deposit with smaller amount of resource number in route information doesn't change (stays bigger then should be). I don't know if it cause exploit or just an UI problem (i'm to lazy to check) but the problem is there
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