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TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 14:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
More often than not you hear goons&0.0 alliances complaining on forum about risk vs reward. Their basic premise is something like this: in highsec you cannot shoot ships without concord, thus you are safe 99% of the time. However, in 0.0 your ship is constantly in danger, thus it is more riskier to be in 0.0, thus in 0.0 you have higher rewards, however highsec rewards are too high in their opinion.
0.0 dwellers keep repeating that idealistic story, whine about "carebears", saying that highsec deserves horrible nerfs, everyone should be forced to 0.0 and what not. However, what they are not telling you, is that thanks to the game mechanics, in 0.0 risk is almost non-existent, but rewards many times higher than highsec.
First Problem: Local.
event 1. neutral/red jumps into 0.0 system event 2. every hulk/raven/cnr/vindicator/maradeur/carrier click on "Warp to POS/SS/DOCK."
There is no counter. This very simple game mechanic has made 0.0 carebearing foolproof, also this makes fleet op intel too easy.
Solution: Remove local from game. If and only if 0.0 alliances start mega-crying... buff scanner a bit to compensate for the tears.
Second Problem: Defensive 0.0 mechanics.
Someone like NC. has like 100 tech moons. That is only tech moons. To assault them you need a mega blob. Now once you have that megablob, all those cynojammers/sov mechanics/TCU/station/whatever destroy the desire of the attacking side. The only exceptions, are renter alliances falling out of grace with their masters. Even if you win vs a fail alliance, you end up with them being able to evacuate vast majority of their assets.
Solution: Drastically nerf every single defensive feature, one single reinforce timer for every single item in the system/constellation. Once a station changes hands, every single item in the station is is irreversably purged.
Third Problem: Supercaps.
Too many supercaps, too few die. This is a problem.
Solution: Make all supercaps globally view able on galaxy map, make all supercaps warpable beacons on overview, no supercapital will disappear in space when logged off(you have to use pos), start banning supercapital account sharing.
Fourth Problem: Jump Bridges and Jump Freighters.
These make alliance logistics too easy.
Solution: Jump Freighters have a cooldown period of 5h, once they unload their cargo - no jumps until the timer is up. Jump Bridges should not allow to carry non-ammo cargo(like trying to put a Iteron V full of trit into a carrier.)
Lots of highsec players are getting tired of this constant goon/[enter alliance here] spam: "NERF HIGHSEC, RISK VS REWARD." Time to look at the real carebears - the 0.0 alliances - and start adding some risk to their game. Once all these changes have been made, we can have a serious discussion on lvl4/hulks in highsec. |
knobber Jobbler
190
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Don't remove local, just change it so its works like worm holes. Without local there is no way to communicate... |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1230
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec a rogue goon |
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
55
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec
His ideas might be very dumb, but they are not dumber than most 0.0 dwellers ideas. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1230
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alaya Carrier wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec His ideas might be very dumb, but they are not dumber than most 0.0 dwellers ideas.
tell me the dumb ideas that normally come from 0.0 dwellers a rogue goon |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1404
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec
|
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
990
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
"Goons keep pointing out how ****** highsec is, so here are some ideas that would be horrible disasters if they were added to the game but would **** off Goons and that's all the metric we need, right?"
Skill Yourself (For Destroyers) |
Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
168
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec
another nullbear with nothing usefull to say I'm an American, English is my second language... |
baltec1
1588
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
OP thinks the NC is still around |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:OP thinks the NC is still around
So hardcore funny.
I am dying of laughter. |
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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1230
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bootleg Jack wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec another nullbear with nothing usefull to say
i do love it when hisec miners talk about "nullbears"
i wonder, what defines a "nullbear" a rogue goon |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
256
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec While his ideas are derptarded, the basic premise that nullbearing is as safe or safer than hisec bearing is valid. There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1230
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:While his ideas are derptarded, the basic premise that nullbearing is as safe or safer than hisec bearing is valid.
do you say this from personal experience or are you just making nonsense up a rogue goon |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Bootleg Jack wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec another nullbear with nothing usefull to say i do love it when hisec miners talk about "nullbears" i wonder, what defines a "nullbear"
Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1230
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0.
the game mechanics allow me to shoot literally anybody i want in nullsec without some arbitrary time window in which I have to kill them before I'm popped by ridiculously overpowered peacekeepers
ergo, nullsec is actually risky a rogue goon |
baltec1
1588
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:
Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0.
I see Delve is awash with risk free play. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
256
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:While his ideas are derptarded, the basic premise that nullbearing is as safe or safer than hisec bearing is valid. do you say this from personal experience or are you just making nonsense up Personal experience There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
168
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Bootleg Jack wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec another nullbear with nothing usefull to say i do love it when hisec miners talk about "nullbears" i wonder, what defines a "nullbear" Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0.
players who are unable to A L I G N and S C A N I'm an American, English is my second language... |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
408
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Bootleg Jack wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec another nullbear with nothing usefull to say i do love it when hisec miners talk about "nullbears" i wonder, what defines a "nullbear"
Sounds like a monster from D&D to me Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims. |
Varesk
Mafia Redux Black Legion.
110
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:OP thinks the NC is still around
He typed NC. There is dot in the OP. |
|
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. the game mechanics allow me to shoot literally anybody i want in nullsec without some arbitrary time window in which I have to kill them before I'm popped by ridiculously overpowered peacekeepers ergo, nullsec is actually risky
1. Goons mine 0.0 in hulks.
2. Neutral/red jumps into system.
3. Goons warp to pos/ss/station.
What is the counter?
In 0.0 you can use local for 100% perfect defense, in highsec you cannot.
Keep telling yourself stories about arbitrary time windows, fact is 0.0 hulk safer than in highsec. |
baltec1
1588
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Varesk wrote:baltec1 wrote:OP thinks the NC is still around He typed NC. There is dot in the OP.
So there is, my bad. But OP is still a daft one. |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
161
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nullbears hate Highsecbears and vice versa this is true competition. Teemo for president. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1230
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
nullseccers die less while making isk because they realized long ago that the winning strategy in eve is to avoid getting tackled, rather than being complacent because the peacekeepers will kill anybody who does so much as activate a target painter on you a rogue goon |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1230
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:1. Goons mine 0.0 in hulks.
2. Neutral/red jumps into system.
3. Goons warp to pos/ss/station.
What is the counter?
In 0.0 you can use local for 100% perfect defense, in highsec you cannot.
Keep telling yourself stories about arbitrary time windows, fact is 0.0 hulk safer than in highsec.
the counter is to log off a bomber in their grav anom since, well, hulks don't have great align time a rogue goon |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bootleg Jack wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Bootleg Jack wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec another nullbear with nothing usefull to say i do love it when hisec miners talk about "nullbears" i wonder, what defines a "nullbear" Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. players who are unable to A L I G N and S C A N
Remove local from game and 0.0 bears have to use A L I G N and S C A N, too! |
Nostradamouse Riraille
Blackreach. SRS.
33
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
*Looks at post...
I'll go crawl back in my wormhole... |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1231
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Remove local from game and 0.0 bears have to use A L I G N and S C A N, too!
protip: they already do
not that you'd know since you've never left hisec a rogue goon |
baltec1
1589
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:
Remove local from game and 0.0 bears have to use A L I G N and S C A N, too!
I already do. Because, unlike in high sec, that neutral in local is not a nice guy. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1744
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Remove local from game and 0.0 bears have to use A L I G N and S C A N, too! protip: they already do not that you'd know since you've never left hisec
Was gonna say this.
Align and scan is the bread and butter of nullsec. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
|
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
172
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. the game mechanics allow me to shoot literally anybody i want in nullsec without some arbitrary time window in which I have to kill them before I'm popped by ridiculously overpowered peacekeepers ergo, nullsec is actually risky
Admit it, you were drunk when you posted this. Go on, we all see how you MUST have been drunk. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1231
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:44:00 -
[32] - Quote
Katja Faith wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. the game mechanics allow me to shoot literally anybody i want in nullsec without some arbitrary time window in which I have to kill them before I'm popped by ridiculously overpowered peacekeepers ergo, nullsec is actually risky Admit it, you were drunk when you posted this. Go on, we all see how you MUST have been drunk.
call me when people actually bother to suicide gank, say, a t2 fit tengu in highsec simply for no reason other than "we felt like it"
hisec is literally only risky if you're dumb and fly around in a loot pinata or if you mine in a hulk during an event based on suicide ganking hulks a rogue goon |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
256
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:nullseccers die less while making isk because they realized long ago that the winning strategy in eve is to avoid getting tackled, rather than being complacent because the peacekeepers will kill anybody who does so much as activate a target painter on you Yup, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact if I had people just hanging around in belts until they got killed I'd be podding them myself and have them booted from alliance
But this capability of avoiding tackle is really the reason that nullsec is safer for any halfway intelligent player or bot. You can use local to easily spot your enemy and be safely docked before they even have you scanned. Can't do that in hisec.
NOT that I'm saying hisec should be buffed or that local should be removed from null (removing local is a gamebreakingly terrible idea)
I'd like to see it's usefulness mitigated in some way though, maybe something as simple as a 30sec delay before someone appears in local after jumping into system. (meaning I guess that if you jump into a system and jump out before 30sec is up you never appear at all)
Nothing too drastic, just something that means someone ratting in a nullsec hub with 100 blues in local and an intel channel isn't essentially invulnerable. There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1232
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Yup, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact if I had people just hanging around in belts until they got killed I'd be podding them myself and have them booted from alliance
But this capability of avoiding tackle is really the reason that nullsec is safer for any halfway intelligent player or bot. You can use local to easily spot your enemy and be safely docked before they even have you scanned. Can't do that in hisec.
you can most certainly avoid getting tackled in hisec
hint: those flashy red catalysts are not warping into the belt to join you in mining
Copine Callmeknau wrote:NOT that I'm saying hisec should be buffed or that local should be removed from null (removing local is a gamebreakingly terrible idea)
I'd like to see it's usefulness mitigated in some way though, maybe something as simple as a 30sec delay before someone appears in local after jumping into system. (meaning I guess that if you jump into a system and jump out before 30sec is up you never appear at all)
what I'd like to see to placate some of the whiners (and add a meaningful change of sorts) is your appearance in local being based on when you decloak after jumping in, to give you a slight advantage in being able to dscan and such before decloaking and appearing in local
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Nothing too drastic, just something that means someone ratting in a nullsec hub with 100 blues in local and an intel channel isn't essentially invulnerable.
the fact that you think that anybody in their right mind would rat in a nullsec hub with 100 blues in local sorely shows that you've never actually lived in nullsec a rogue goon |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
506
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Alaya Carrier wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec His ideas might be very dumb, but they are not dumber than most 0.0 dwellers ideas. tell me the dumb ideas that normally come from 0.0 dwellers
You're a nullsec dweller, you should know. The last dumb idea I had was to rebuy the GTA series on Steam. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
718
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
If you think that nullsec is safer than highsec you're completely ignoring the actual statistics that prove how blatantly wrong you are. |
baltec1
1589
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:nullseccers die less while making isk because they realized long ago that the winning strategy in eve is to avoid getting tackled, rather than being complacent because the peacekeepers will kill anybody who does so much as activate a target painter on you Yup, there's nothing wrong with that. In fact if I had people just hanging around in belts until they got killed I'd be podding them myself and have them booted from alliance But this capability of avoiding tackle is really the reason that nullsec is safer for any halfway intelligent player or bot. You can use local to easily spot your enemy and be safely docked before they even have you scanned. Can't do that in hisec.
I can stop all the ratting and mining in a 0.0 system using a cloaking badger. Thats how safe 0.0 is. |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
112
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:i do love it when hisec miners talk about "nullbears"
i wonder, what defines a "nullbear"
A 'nullbear' is a creature that posts about AFK cloaking. |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
161
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP got plan to add emergency warp out button 100km - 150km directly to open space , so dont wory about aligin and scan in future, win for miners in hi sec, and null raters. Teemo for president. |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:53:00 -
[40] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:1. Goons mine 0.0 in hulks.
2. Neutral/red jumps into system.
3. Goons warp to pos/ss/station.
What is the counter?
In 0.0 you can use local for 100% perfect defense, in highsec you cannot.
Keep telling yourself stories about arbitrary time windows, fact is 0.0 hulk safer than in highsec. the counter is to log off a bomber in their grav anom since, well, hulks don't have great align time
I keep reading about "align mining", surely goons could learn this neat trick as well.
Also, from the time you show up in local when logging in(assuming perfect positioning), to the point where you can actually get a lock+point on is more like 30s. Hulks do align to warp 30 s. |
|
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1404
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:If you think that nullsec is safer than highsec you're completely ignoring the actual statistics that prove how blatantly wrong you are. I think all of highsec should be turned to 0.0 so everyone can enjoy our level of safety. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1232
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Also, from the time you show up in local when logging in(assuming perfect positioning), to the point where you can actually get a lock+point on is more like 30s. Hulks do align to warp 30 s.
yeah, no you're actually wrong here
a bomber will enter and exit emergency warp within 10 seconds, easy a rogue goon |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
256
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:you can most certainly avoid getting tackled in hisec
hint: those flashy red catalysts are not warping into the belt to join you in mining Well, not that I ever mine, but from my experience in being the flashy red sebo catalyst I can tell you that when me and my buddy warp to our covops and land a k or two away from the hulk, they generally don't have time to say 'wtf' before they're popped, let alone align and warp (they are NEVER aligned already, no idea why, if I were to take a stab at it I'd guess that staying aligned means they go out of rock range)
Richard Desturned wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:NOT that I'm saying hisec should be buffed or that local should be removed from null (removing local is a gamebreakingly terrible idea)
I'd like to see it's usefulness mitigated in some way though, maybe something as simple as a 30sec delay before someone appears in local after jumping into system. (meaning I guess that if you jump into a system and jump out before 30sec is up you never appear at all) what I'd like to see to placate some of the whiners (and add a meaningful change of sorts) is your appearance in local being based on when you decloak after jumping in, to give you a slight advantage in being able to dscan and such before decloaking and appearing in local Also a great idea
Richard Desturned wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Nothing too drastic, just something that means someone ratting in a nullsec hub with 100 blues in local and an intel channel isn't essentially invulnerable. the fact that you think that anybody in their right mind would rat in a nullsec hub with 100 blues in local sorely shows that you've never actually lived in nullsec Just type 'Define: Hyperbole' into google for me please.
I can't be bothered to argue semantics, feel free to replace the words 'a nullsec hub with 100 blues in local' with 'alliance space with 100 blues <2 jumps away' and reread the sentence, my point still stands.
I've spent several years in null, it's a bit boring for my tastes. Pirate life for me baby :) There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1404
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 15:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
what happens when people who get their view of 0.0 from reading en24 comments section propose game fixes |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1745
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote: I keep reading about "align mining", surely goons could learn this neat trick as well.
You have to be moving to be aligned. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Mallak Azaria
275
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:03:00 -
[46] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec While his ideas are derptarded, the basic premise that nullbearing is currently as safe or safer than hisec bearing is a valid one.
The sole reason that nullsec is safer is because there is more targets to shoot in highsec. If you people would stop congregating in highsec, this wouldn't be a problem for you. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
256
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec While his ideas are derptarded, the basic premise that nullbearing is currently as safe or safer than hisec bearing is a valid one. The sole reason that nullsec is safer is because there is more targets to shoot in highsec. If you people would stop congregating in highsec, this wouldn't be a problem for you. 'you people'?
Wish I could show my security status underneath my alliance name on the forums There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1232
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Well, not that I ever mine, but from my experience in being the flashy red sebo catalyst I can tell you that when me and my buddy warp to our covops and land a k or two away from the hulk, they generally don't have time to say 'wtf' before they're popped, let alone align and warp (they are NEVER aligned already, no idea why, if I were to take a stab at it I'd guess that staying aligned means they go out of rock range)
i'm really not going to bother rehashing literally every bit of advice i've given to hisec miners, but there are so many basic steps they could take to avoid getting into a situation where they get targeted for a gank in the first place, i.e. fitting an actual tank rather than whatever it takes to tank pitiful hisec belt rats
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Just type 'Define: Hyperbole' into google for me please.
I can't be bothered to argue semantics, feel free to replace the words 'a nullsec hub with 100 blues in local' with 'alliance space with 100 blues <2 jumps away' and reread the sentence, my point still stands.
I've spent several years in null, it's a bit boring for my tastes. Pirate life for me baby :)
"hub" systems are determined as such based on their location - i.e. regions within titan range, systems within jump bridge range, their proximity to empire and how accessible other regions are from that system
for that very same reason it is dumb to actually rat or mine so close to those systems, considering that roaming gangs frequent systems near major nullsec staging systems a rogue goon |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
161
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
What is with all these loathsome posts back and forth between players in different parts of the game. You guys need to just hug it out already. |
The Protato
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote: i do love it when hisec miners talk about "nullbears"
i wonder, what defines a "nullbear"
Now, son, we've had this discussion before.
A nullbear is, in effect, a carebear who farms rats or mines for the majority of his time. The difference is a nullbear has napfests and null mechanics/desertion to protect him. Nullbears also love to whine about carebears and flame carebears on the forum. |
|
The Protato
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:33:00 -
[51] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:i'm really not going to bother rehashing literally every bit of advice i've given to hisec miners, but there are so many basic steps they could take to avoid getting into a situation where they get targeted for a gank in the first place, i.e. fitting an actual tank rather than whatever it takes to tank pitiful hisec belt rats
Now, it's nice hearing the voice of reason from his high horse, but the fact remains that there is no threat to nullsec miners. So yeah, say "lol come kill them then" all you want, but I won't be fighting a 500-man blob for a hulk kill, thanks. This is why they are bigger bears than carebears. |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Also, from the time you show up in local when logging in(assuming perfect positioning), to the point where you can actually get a lock+point on is more like 30s. Hulks do align to warp 30 s. yeah, no you're actually wrong here a bomber will enter and exit emergency warp within 10 seconds, easy
Enter and exit warp is different from logoffski-logon, I think you show up in local a few seconds before your ship appears, then you sit still for a second and then do the 1M km warp - all these add up and I just tested this with my alt, from the time you show up in local, to the point when you start locking/tackling, it takes ~30s. Besides, these hulks should be permanently aligned anyway(everyone is suggesting this for highsec). |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
256
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:33:00 -
[53] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Well, not that I ever mine, but from my experience in being the flashy red sebo catalyst I can tell you that when me and my buddy warp to our covops and land a k or two away from the hulk, they generally don't have time to say 'wtf' before they're popped, let alone align and warp (they are NEVER aligned already, no idea why, if I were to take a stab at it I'd guess that staying aligned means they go out of rock range) i'm really not going to bother rehashing literally every bit of advice i've given to hisec miners, but there are so many basic steps they could take to avoid getting into a situation where they get targeted for a gank in the first place, i.e. fitting an actual tank rather than whatever it takes to tank pitiful hisec belt rats That generally doesn't help, we bring two cat's for this exact reason. Only so much tank you can get with < 50PG, and cat's are super smexy with their uber dps If I were going to give any hulk pilots out there any survival tips, it'd be to fit a full rack of ECM bursts, pray, and spam warp.
Richard Desturned wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Just type 'Define: Hyperbole' into google for me please.
I can't be bothered to argue semantics, feel free to replace the words 'a nullsec hub with 100 blues in local' with 'alliance space with 100 blues <2 jumps away' and reread the sentence, my point still stands.
I've spent several years in null, it's a bit boring for my tastes. Pirate life for me baby :) "hub" systems are determined as such based on their location - i.e. regions within titan range, systems within jump bridge range, their proximity to empire and how accessible other regions are from that system for that very same reason it is dumb to actually rat or mine so close to those systems, considering that roaming gangs frequent systems near major nullsec staging systems Well, dumb in terms of profit maybe due to needing to warp out a lot, but risky? Not at all, roaming gangs scout jumps in, you warp out. Not what I would call an unsafe activity. Apply to any nullsec system ever, and most of lowsec at that. I gotta say though that most lowseccers are massive pussies, I don't even bother dscanning when I'm bearing in lowsec any more There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:40:00 -
[54] - Quote
I sense a great disturbance as the nullbears cry out in terror. |
strenif
Caldari War Machine STR8NGE BREW
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
I'm a 0.0 guy and I'm out here not because it's 'safer' (it isn't) but because the threats are clearly marked.
When I have to make a run to highsec I'm more nervous when I get then then when I'm flying through null. Anyone of the hundred people in local could be a suicide ganker or they could be a normal person. I equate the scenario to a solder being on the beaches of Normandy vs the streets of Baghdad. In the former, the bad guys are waring uniforms. The later the bad guys look like the noncombatants that surround you on a daily basis. Which do you think is safer and which do you think is less nerve wracking? |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
161
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
I lol at the guy talking about entering a null system and the bears warp to safety. You do realize they warped to safety long before you entered system right? They have intel channels that report your every movement for five regions out.
"Guys, he is 12 jumps away now. GET SAFE!!!"
All thanks to the best effort free intel gathering mechanic in the history of online gaming, local channel. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1404
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
The Protato wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:i'm really not going to bother rehashing literally every bit of advice i've given to hisec miners, but there are so many basic steps they could take to avoid getting into a situation where they get targeted for a gank in the first place, i.e. fitting an actual tank rather than whatever it takes to tank pitiful hisec belt rats
Now, it's nice hearing the voice of reason from his high horse, but the fact remains that there is no threat to nullsec miners. So yeah, say "lol come kill them then" all you want, but I won't be fighting a 500-man blob for a hulk kill, thanks. This is why they are bigger bears than carebears. stupid nullbears chasing me off with their pvp blob, *sob* |
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone Caldari State
614
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:55:00 -
[58] - Quote
just another you don,t play it my way thread
nothing to see here pushing that button ,not expecting something. But suddenly the door opens and the next thing i see myself flooting in space,just before i wake up again. thank god for clones |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1404
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:55:00 -
[59] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:I lol at the guy talking about entering a null system and the bears warp to safety. You do realize they warped to safety long before you entered system right? They have intel channels that report your every movement for five regions out.
"Guys, he is 12 jumps away now. GET SAFE!!!"
All thanks to the best effort free intel gathering mechanic in the history of online gaming, local channel. anchor some bubbles on the station, bring a good prober, log off in a grav belt, camp a gate between two jump bridges, anchor SBUs |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1404
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:56:00 -
[60] - Quote
reinforce their POS, reinforce their station, bring a spy into one of their corps, camp a gate |
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1404
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:57:00 -
[61] - Quote
use a wormhole to enter system, log off with a covops cyno, have a guy reporting the contents of their intel channel, use a scout |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
257
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:02:00 -
[62] - Quote
strenif wrote:I'm a 0.0 guy and I'm out here not because it's 'safer' (it isn't) but because the threats are clearly marked.
When I have to make a run to highsec I'm more nervous when I get then then when I'm flying through null. Anyone of the hundred people in local could be a suicide ganker or they could be a normal person. I equate the scenario to a solder being on the beaches of Normandy vs the streets of Baghdad. In the former, the bad guys are waring uniforms. The later the bad guys look like the noncombatants that surround you on a daily basis. Which do you think is safer and which do you think is less nerve wracking? Exactly this
I suppose the safety in all levels of EVE is the same: You can be shot anytime, anywhere, by anyone
But the perceived security is different across different areas in space. And for me at least, the perceived security is higher in nullsec than in highsec. There are also more perceived threats in highsec than nullsec
Basically what I'm saying is that you're all a massive bunch of pussies and REAL MEN with REAL BAWLS live in lowsec
You know I'm right and you're just jelly that you ain't a BAWS There should be a rather awesome pic here |
hedge betts Shiyurida
State Protectorate Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:10:00 -
[63] - Quote
This notion of high sec being safer never fails to amuse me.
I'm my time in eve I've lived in stain, Insmother, cobalt edge. I've raided goon, test and many others. To this day my death and ship loses are still great than in 0.0.
Most alliance held space only has a few entties to it. Intel gate bubbles ......
Change the tune and find something else to spam forums with
Cup the balls, and work the shaft |
Orici Saraki
Orici Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:17:00 -
[64] - Quote
Best Intel, Local Channel! |
Nostradamouse Riraille
Blackreach. SRS.
33
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:27:00 -
[65] - Quote
Nah really... Local is easy mode.
But hey, if you don't want local, go in a wormhole. All I gotta say. |
baltec1
1589
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:33:00 -
[66] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
You know I'm right and you're just jelly that you ain't a BAWS
You have the same problem in high sec that I have. You are so used to neutrals being bad guys out to get you that you think everything is a threat. Truth is however that high sec is far safer. Just look at the mess in Delve. |
adam smash
University of Caille Gallente Federation
108
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:33:00 -
[67] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:While his ideas are derptarded, the basic premise that nullbearing is as safe or safer than hisec bearing is valid. do you say this from personal experience or are you just making nonsense up
This goon he mad, he very mad. Very stupid too. Ain't hard to probe out a WH that goes to null...
I poped into FA space the other day, man if that WH was not bubbled to **** and man if I did not see epic numbers of hulks mining...
Nullbears gona bear.
Not to mention the NAP going on. For this lowlife goon to say ANYTHING about risk is a JOKE. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1404
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:34:00 -
[68] - Quote
COWARD GOON *posts behind NPC forum alt* |
Shidhe
The Babylon5 Consortuim
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:41:00 -
[69] - Quote
Low sec!!! Actually make low sec worthwhile, relative to the relative security of both hi sec and 0.0. A major industry upgrade in EvE concentrating on the following will help significantly:
1) Making low sec relatively more profitable (can be done without increasing direct money inputs) 2) Making more extended supply chains so that goods have to be shipped further - including through low sec. 3) (Most obvious) Stop planetary interaction in Hi sec. 4) Start including planetary defense and blockade running contracts and missions more generally, as part of the build up to Dust. 5) More stuff to build, requiring a larger variety of materials.
Good economy = population = targets = ship blown up = good economy = ....... |
TEABO BAGGINS
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:41:00 -
[70] - Quote
Removing local won't wont solve much except making the few carebears willing to go there stay out all together. |
|
Gun Gal
Dark Club
23
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:43:00 -
[71] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Alaya Carrier wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec His ideas might be very dumb, but they are not dumber than most 0.0 dwellers ideas. tell me the dumb ideas that normally come from 0.0 dwellers
As someone who has spent more years in nullsec than most have played, these are valid and good ideas.
Nullsec is the ultimate carebearland, I get more risk in low/highsec than ever in null.
|
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
430
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:50:00 -
[72] - Quote
If some Null sec space is safe it's because people living there make it safe, it's not given because you put some sov structure and pay concord bills with bananas.
Moon goo and sov need changes, seems ever one agrees on that, but telling null sec is safe dude you have no clue what you're talking about. Biggest difference with high sec is that we use standings and intell chans to create some safety and eventually spot big threats to deal with hose.
I've got some high sec toon and think it's quite nice except maybe how easy it is to gank mining barges, it's really stupid as situation, aside this I'd say high sec has far too many industry slots and not enough market taxes but everything else is +/- cool.
Instead of whining go there with a couple friends to see how safe it is and have some fun. brb |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:52:00 -
[73] - Quote
Gun Gal wrote:I get more risk in low/highsec than ever in null.
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
"guys it's far more risky to afk mine in Sobaseki during Hulkageddon or to autopilot my officer fit Nightmare through gates in hisec than it is to rat in a T2 fit Tengu in nullsec"
i do love all of the hiseccers talking about how nullsec is too safe yet they stay in hisec because, apparently, they enjoy living on ~the edge~ under concord protection a rogue goon |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:59:00 -
[74] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:While his ideas are derptarded, the basic premise that nullbearing is as safe or safer than hisec bearing is valid. do you say this from personal experience or are you just making nonsense up
...even if he doesn't I can. Much of what he is saying is true. though I'm not sure I like my semi-permanant structures losing even more defenses as suggested, I would really like some changes to local chat. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1151
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 18:00:00 -
[75] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Gun Gal wrote:I get more risk in low/highsec than ever in null. ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha"guys it's far more risky to afk mine in Sobaseki during Hulkageddon or to autopilot my officer fit Nightmare through gates in hisec than it is to rat in a T2 fit Tengu in nullsec" i do love all of the hiseccers talking about how nullsec is too safe yet they stay in hisec because, apparently, they enjoy living on ~the edge~ under concord protection Yeah, I always... wondered about that.
I think it's because they can't get into the nullsec coalitions that are safe. Well I'm sure you can try and join a renter in the Delve areas, but their sov is going ~fast~ Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 18:02:00 -
[76] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Gun Gal wrote:I get more risk in low/highsec than ever in null. i do love all of the hiseccers talking about how nullsec is too safe yet they stay in hisec because, apparently, they enjoy living on ~the edge~ under concord protection
Truth is, they'd rather join your alliance for protection, but more people might cause an overflow error and permanently break the game. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3811
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 18:05:00 -
[77] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec
|
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3811
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 18:06:00 -
[78] - Quote
Alaya Carrier wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec His ideas might be very dumb, but they are not dumber than most 0.0 dwellers ideas.
Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8381
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 18:09:00 -
[79] - Quote
Yes, let's roll back the CONCORD buff from three years agoGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 18:13:00 -
[80] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Gun Gal wrote:I get more risk in low/highsec than ever in null. ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha"guys it's far more risky to afk mine in Sobaseki during Hulkageddon or to autopilot my officer fit Nightmare through gates in hisec than it is to rat in a T2 fit Tengu in nullsec" i do love all of the hiseccers talking about how nullsec is too safe yet they stay in hisec because, apparently, they enjoy living on ~the edge~ under concord protection
You are correct, afking in Sobaseki gates is safer than afking in Tenal belts, but when ratting the risk is about the same.
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:If some Null sec space is safe it's because people living there make it safe, it's not given because you put some sov structure and pay concord bills with bananas.
Moon goo and sov need changes, seems ever one agrees on that, but telling null sec is safe dude you have no clue what you're talking about. Biggest difference with high sec is that we use standings and intell chans to create some safety and eventually spot big threats to deal with hose.
I've got some high sec toon and think it's quite nice except maybe how easy it is to gank mining barges, it's really stupid as situation, aside this I'd say high sec has far too many industry slots and not enough market taxes but everything else is +/- cool.
Instead of whining go there with a couple friends to see how safe it is and have some fun.
You make it safe, thanks to the game mechanics. Local gives immunity to individual ships. JB/JF/Capitals give you far easier access to quick and safe logistics, allowing you to run all the infrastructure, which in turn makes it really tedious(also non-rewarding) to attack that huge infrastructure.
Now, you can argue that local has always been this way and the game is built around it, but POS grinding was really bad even before JB/JF/Capital hauling, and this made it only worse.
|
|
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
172
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 18:13:00 -
[81] - Quote
ITT: Goons getting trolled by an obvious goon alt OP.
Eve comes full circle.
Also, dicks. Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
257
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 18:26:00 -
[82] - Quote
Shidhe wrote: Low sec!!! Actually make low sec worthwhile, relative to the relative security of both hi sec and 0.0. A major industry upgrade in EvE concentrating on the following will help significantly:
1) Making low sec relatively more profitable (can be done without increasing direct money inputs) 2) Making more extended supply chains so that goods have to be shipped further - including through low sec. 3) (Most obvious) Stop planetary interaction in Hi sec. 4) Start including planetary defense and blockade running contracts and missions more generally, as part of the build up to Dust. 5) More stuff to build, requiring a larger variety of materials.
Good economy = population = targets = ship blown up = good economy = ....... LOL 'make low sec worthwhile' I'll make a bil a day easy in lowsec, no sweat. How much more worthwhile do you want it to get?
If you aren't making money in lowsec, you don't really know how to play EVE
edit: How to make EVE awesomer 30sec delay on local in nullsec Give low sec gate guns a sig resolution, so they do relatively less damage to frigs/cruisers, but relatively more to BS. Allow bombs Allow boomerang in hisec again There should be a rather awesome pic here |
baltec1
1590
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 18:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:
You make it safe, thanks to the game mechanics. Local gives immunity to individual ships. JB/JF/Capitals give you far easier access to quick and safe logistics, allowing you to run all the infrastructure, which in turn makes it really tedious(also non-rewarding) to attack that huge infrastructure.
Now, you can argue that local has always been this way and the game is built around it, but POS grinding was really bad even before JB/JF/Capital hauling, and this made it only worse.
Again, look at the burning land that is Delve and its crumbling infastructure. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4256
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 08:15:00 -
[84] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Bootleg Jack wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec another nullbear with nothing usefull to say i do love it when hisec miners talk about "nullbears" i wonder, what defines a "nullbear"
A player who, unlike hi-sec bears, has all four of the neurons required to react when a hostile makes his presence apparent. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1153
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 08:17:00 -
[85] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:
You make it safe, thanks to the game mechanics. Local gives immunity to individual ships. JB/JF/Capitals give you far easier access to quick and safe logistics, allowing you to run all the infrastructure, which in turn makes it really tedious(also non-rewarding) to attack that huge infrastructure.
Now, you can argue that local has always been this way and the game is built around it, but POS grinding was really bad even before JB/JF/Capital hauling, and this made it only worse.
Again, look at the burning land that is Delve and its crumbling infastructure. Well people have to undock in order to make it really tedious. If they don't, then well Titans and Dreadnaughts are shockingly good at levelling big things that don't move.
All hail supercapital proliteration !
A major alliance may have as many as four titans ! That's why the CFC has like goodness known how many major alliances that we have I have no idea how many Titans. And there's Honeybadgers, goodness... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1153
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 08:18:00 -
[86] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:i do love it when hisec miners talk about "nullbears"
i wonder, what defines a "nullbear" A player who, unlike hi-sec bears, has all four of the neurons required to react when a hostile makes his presence apparent. 1) See Hostile in local 2) Pull drones (if necessary) 3) Initiate warp to (safe spot/POS/etc) 4) Report hostile in intel channel
Wow, that does fit in 4. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1551
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 08:34:00 -
[87] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote: Blah Blah Blah....
Stop posting.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1153
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 08:36:00 -
[88] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:You make it safe, thanks to the game mechanics. So the players make it safe, because the game mechanics make it safe.
Nice. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
860
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 09:02:00 -
[89] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:
Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0.
I see Delve is awash with risk free play.
There is no Delve war. All nullsec pilots are quietly mining and ratting their way to their first trillion isk while their alts milk technetium from a giant cow in the sky and offer it up as tribute to their alliance gods. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
144
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 09:12:00 -
[90] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. the game mechanics allow me to shoot literally anybody i want in nullsec without some arbitrary time window in which I have to kill them before I'm popped by ridiculously overpowered peacekeepers ergo, nullsec is actually risky 1. Goons mine 0.0 in hulks. 2. Neutral/red jumps into system. 3. Goons warp to pos/ss/station. What is the counter? In 0.0 you can use local for 100% perfect defense, in highsec you cannot. Keep telling yourself stories about arbitrary time windows, fact is 0.0 hulk safer than in highsec.
It's called a awoxer alt. It works quite the charm. |
|
that beast
Disconnected. Choke Point
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 10:05:00 -
[91] - Quote
Alrighty, so, ignoring the big mess of c*** going on in Delve right now (which yes, is a war by the way), there are plenty of other 0.0 regions/systems.
So why doesn't OP and everyone with him go down to 0.0 and mine (after all, it's where the slightly more expensive minerals are) and then we'll see how safe it really is?
People who currently live in null will have, at some point or other, carebeared and lived in high sec, if only because it's where everyone starts. But people who live in highsec haven't necessarily lived in null, and so, on the scale of things, the people who are more likely to be the best informed about various areas of the game, are the ones who live in null.
I'm not saying either side is right, but I would like to see some of the highsec carebears coming down to mine in null because we could all do with a few more kills. And if you say "Blah but it's not the same for us because we don't have all the POS's and infrastructure and intel" then your original argument becomes a little bit moot with the yno "Null is just as safe". Arguing that the "nullbears" have made it safe for themselves is perfectly valid, and it's fine for them to have done it. It's not really using game mechanics other than that incredibly basic mechanic of "There are players in the game, other plays can interact with them". However, regardless of whether or not they've made it safe, that's still only a localised safety net. It is still dangerous, if you get my drift.
Anyway, if OP is right, then he can come down to null and start mining and make lots more money than he currently is, because he won't die, he won't even get suicide ganked, and he'll get the more valuble ores. So why doesn't he? OP your argument is fundamentally flawed.
TB |
Caitlyn Tufy
Refuge of Hope Lemniskate
11
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 10:12:00 -
[92] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Bootleg Jack wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec another nullbear with nothing usefull to say i do love it when hisec miners talk about "nullbears" i wonder, what defines a "nullbear"
Actually bro, he already defined it:
event 1. neutral/red jumps into 0.0 system event 2. every hulk/raven/cnr/vindicator/maradeur/carrier click on "Warp to POS/SS/DOCK."
That, imo, is a perfect definition of a nullbear, someone who's afraid of his own shadow.
0.0 local actually is a problem, because you're always aware of danger / potential target. It also encourages blobbing (i.e. fighting in huge masses of ships to overwhelm the opponent with sheer numbers), rather than the use of actual tactics (diversions, hit and run attacks on supply lines, battle maneuvers, etc.). By turning 0.0 local into WH-like chat, you'd bring both the opportunity for smaller groups AND the potential risk against good system scanners.
Now, what would happen if there was no 0.0 local? Our nullbear could of course use preventive measures to feel safer (the mighty skills of using D-scan :p ), but there would always be a chance that a cov ops ship could get a drop on him, that an enemy armada is hiding just out of reach, etc.
Truth be told, if one is a 0.0 bloodthirsty fighter, I see absolutely no disadvantages to the introduction of this mechanic - if anything, it would make the battles even more fun. Or am I missing something? (note: I actually prefer WH over 0.0 precisely because of local; it just feels a lot more risky and there's noway to run if someone catches you with your pants down). |
Cebraio
Starfire Oasis
147
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 10:12:00 -
[93] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Well, not that I ever mine, but from my experience in being the flashy red sebo catalyst I can tell you that when me and my buddy warp to our covops and land a k or two away from the hulk, they generally don't have time to say 'wtf' before they're popped, let alone align and warp (they are NEVER aligned already, no idea why, if I were to take a stab at it I'd guess that staying aligned means they go out of rock range) i'm really not going to bother rehashing literally every bit of advice i've given to hisec miners, but there are so many basic steps they could take to avoid getting into a situation where they get targeted for a gank in the first place, i.e. fitting an actual tank rather than whatever it takes to tank pitiful hisec belt rats That generally doesn't help, we bring two cat's for this exact reason. Only so much tank you can get with < 50PG, and cat's are super smexy with their uber dps If I were going to give any hulk pilots out there any survival tips, it'd be to fit a full rack of ECM bursts, pray, and spam warp.
LOL! Awesome advice from a ganker! ECM bursts in hi sec! So if they don't die to your guns, they'll get CONCORDED in the end. Brilliant!
Also staying aligned during mining is not really feasible. You will move out of mining range sooner or later.
|
The Protato
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 10:24:00 -
[94] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:reinforce their POS, reinforce their station, bring a spy into one of their corps, camp a gate
Get blobbed |
dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
25
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 10:36:00 -
[95] - Quote
that beast wrote:I'm not saying either side is right, but I would like to see some of the highsec carebears coming down to mine in null because we could all do with a few more kills.
Don't think many carebears mine in 0.0 without renting a system first, and if so the risk difference between mining in 0.0 and hi-sec is pretty small.
The risk reward ratio is not static number, and most of the time you can reduce risk by reducing reward, this is also true in 0.0. It should not be possible to reduce risk to zero, without reducing reward to zero as well, but it's not impossible to turn a small part of 0.0 into the risk equivalent of hi-sec, after all there is as chance that you get suicide ganked in hi-sec.
A lot of people choose to live in hi-sec because it suites their play style better, some people just dislike being told what to do and when to do it, others have very limited or specific play times that makes living in hi-sec much easier. Don't think most people live in hi-sec because they fear loosing a ship, but because their play style it less suited for 0.0. |
that beast
Disconnected. Choke Point
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 10:42:00 -
[96] - Quote
Mmmm, I can see what you're saying, and I suppose there is a lack of places to go for someone new to null, what with the lack of useable stations, but for the limited play times, you can just log and provided you don't have aggression, people aren't going to find you. Logging back in again is little different to jumping into the system, only you come out somewhere where they're less likely to expect you.
As for renting a system, that doesn't necessarily reduce their risk, because they still have to learn how to use said system effectively, what with the whole warpy-warpy run away. Also, people will still kill them, because there's no use having lots of ore if you can't get it to somewhere that people are willing to buy it.
Main point is that whilst null might not be suited to people's playstyles, there are more people in high who shouldn't be commenting on null because they're never really been there (and so don't KNOW that it isn't suited to their playstyle), whereas everyone in null has played in highsec. |
Generals4
966
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 13:13:00 -
[97] - Quote
Cloned S0ul wrote:Nullbears hate Highsecbears and vice versa this is true competition.
Actually to my knowledge highsecbears don't care about nullbears but are forced to hate them by the hate nullbears throw at them "High sec is OP" "Nerf high sec" "Kill all the hulks in high!" etc.
But than again this is good entertainment.
More on topic. Null and highsec have different kind of "costs". Sov Null indeed provides a LOT of safety but its safety requires a lot of organisation. The safety provided in High sec might be lesser but it also requires 0 efforts. Like it or not running huge alliances and blocks to control and keep control over space in null isn't without efforts. The risk in sov null is mainly the possibility you suddenly get steamrolled by a huge blob and that all the isks and efforts you injected into your sov space just dissapears. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1412
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 13:23:00 -
[98] - Quote
The Protato wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:reinforce their POS, reinforce their station, bring a spy into one of their corps, camp a gate Get blobbed bring a fleet |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1412
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 13:25:00 -
[99] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:Cloned S0ul wrote:Nullbears hate Highsecbears and vice versa this is true competition. Actually to my knowledge highsecbears don't care about null. read who wrote the OP, revise your knowledge.
|
Theodoric Darkwind
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
166
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 13:39:00 -
[100] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote: While his ideas are derptarded, the basic premise that nullbearing is currently as safe or safer than hisec bearing is a valid one.
you have clearly never lived in null.
There is nearly ZERO risk in highsec overall, mission running is absolute zero risk (dont fly something expensive enough to attract gankers and ignore can flippers and its zero risk), mining is pretty low risk, contrary to popular belief suicide ganks of miners are still fairly rare as a % of the total hulks out mining (if ganking were that much of an issue then the economy would be suffering hyperinflation due to low supply of highsec minerals, and highsec mineral prices are still reasonable).
There is always some risk in 0.0, yes you normally POS up when non-blues enter local, but sometimes thats not possible due to being scrammed by rats, stuck on roid, being awoxed, etc. Then add in the risks of travel, jump bridges dont eliminate the need to use gates, and even with intel channels you can still jump into an enemy gate camp if it wasn't reported or get bombed/hotdropped on a jump bridge, etc.
If you look at the killboards for most major nullsec alliances you will see that we do indeed lose carebear ships in non-consensual pvp on a pretty regular basis (TEST loses a few ratters a day to roaming gangs pretty consistently).
Sov null in most regions is definitely safer than lowsec or npc null (as it should be), but its in no way safer than highsec if you have even the slightest bit of sense (how many pimped out mission boats die in highsec each day to people stupid enough to mission while wardecced lol) |
|
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
274
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 13:51:00 -
[101] - Quote
Cebraio wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Richard Desturned wrote: i'm really not going to bother rehashing literally every bit of advice i've given to hisec miners, but there are so many basic steps they could take to avoid getting into a situation where they get targeted for a gank in the first place, i.e. fitting an actual tank rather than whatever it takes to tank pitiful hisec belt rats
That generally doesn't help, we bring two cat's for this exact reason. Only so much tank you can get with < 50PG, and cat's are super smexy with their uber dps If I were going to give any hulk pilots out there any survival tips, it'd be to fit a full rack of ECM bursts, pray, and spam warp. LOL! Awesome advice from a ganker! ECM bursts in hi sec! So if they don't die to your guns, they'll get CONCORDED in the end. Brilliant! Also staying aligned during mining is not really feasible. You will move out of mining range sooner or later. Yes, I know they'll go out of range, I already said that, y ouquoted me saying it in fact...
Also confirming that CONCORD will destroy you for ECM bursting people agressed to you
Unless of course you are mining in a belt surrounded by neutral miners, in which case go back to square one and learn how to mine.
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote: While his ideas are derptarded, the basic premise that nullbearing is currently as safe or safer than hisec bearing is a valid one.
you have clearly never lived in null. And you are clearly incapable of reading a thread in it's entirety, or clicking a character to check it's employment history.
Tell me, how many years of schooling did you have to repeat before settling for a GED? There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Generals4
966
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 13:52:00 -
[102] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Generals4 wrote:Cloned S0ul wrote:Nullbears hate Highsecbears and vice versa this is true competition. Actually to my knowledge highsecbears don't care about null. read who wrote the OP, revise your knowledge.
If you would have kept on reading you would have noticed why that is so. Nullbears have dedicated their existence to ruining the ones of highsecbears (kinda exagerating but just think of hulkagedon or the Goon funded bounties on mining barges and all the whining about any lucrative high sec activities (like incursions and level 4 missions). Surely it is normal that those who are targeted by so much love send some back? Just think about it, why would a highsecbear care about the life of a nullbear? No reason at all. However nullbears have often enough explained why they hate highsecbears, because they aren't shooting targets in nullsec like the nullbears would like them to be. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1412
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 14:00:00 -
[103] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:If you would have kept on reading you would have known the reason why that is so according to me. How's it our fault NPC corp posters endlessly create dumb threads about buffing CONCORD and nerfing 0.0 and other places they've never played in? |
Generals4
966
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 14:05:00 -
[104] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Generals4 wrote:If you would have kept on reading you would have known the reason why that is so according to me. How's it our fault NPC corp posters endlessly create dumb threads about buffing CONCORD and nerfing 0.0 and other places they've never played in?
Maybe subsidizing the suicide ganking on them? Maybe because for every thread calling for a null nerf there are 5 calling for a high sec nerf? And how is a demand on buffing concord somehow showing hatred towards nullseccers? Concord doesn't exist in null.
Anyway, this is OT and i'll leave it at that. But please refrain from quoting the first sentence out of posts and than asking something which is answered in the content that followed that sentence. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Werst Dendenahzees
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 14:07:00 -
[105] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec While his ideas are derptarded, the basic premise that nullbearing is currently as safe or safer than hisec bearing is a valid one. Except for the fact that you can warp your bestower full of PI loot straight into a Sabre. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1412
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 14:15:00 -
[106] - Quote
Generals4 wrote: Maybe because for every thread calling for a null nerf there are 5 calling for a high sec nerf? All I see is this thread, and threads like this. |
Werst Dendenahzees
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
49
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 14:18:00 -
[107] - Quote
Theodoric Darkwind wrote: contrary to popular belief suicide ganks of miners are still fairly rare as a % of the total hulks out mining (if ganking were that much of an issue then the economy would be suffering hyperinflation due to low supply of highsec minerals, and highsec mineral prices are still reasonable).
Funny you should talk about that
Please check trit and pyerite prices TIA |
Cebraio
Starfire Oasis
147
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 14:24:00 -
[108] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Also confirming that CONCORD will destroy you for ECM bursting people agressed to you Of course CONCORD does not act in that case. But only in that unlikely case that you jam nothing neutral. It would be hilariously easy to trap miners with ECM bursts by warping a neutral, not aggressed, alt with the attackers. So yes, still a brilliant advice.
Regarding the alignment, it was not specifically directed towards you. Just wanted to point it out.
PS: "miners with ECM bursts" shall be my next corp name.
|
Valek Noor
Eternal Phoenix Rises Dark Phoenix Rising.
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 14:28:00 -
[109] - Quote
this age old long winded argument basically comes to one thing if you stand far enough back
the ability to go AFK
folks in empire seem to think they should be safe as houses if they leave there PC for a while, carry on mining/hauling AFK while they go do something else, CCP and the game should protect them while they make ooodles of isk risk free
Null sec folks know different- leave PC while not safe = death
Stupid enough not to warp when red comes into local when mining = death
null sec folks ganking in empire are merely trying to help educate those in empire to the higher aspects of the game.........
It really is as clear as mud when you look at it
|
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1412
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 14:30:00 -
[110] - Quote
|
|
Taurich Vorsel
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 14:44:00 -
[111] - Quote
Cebraio wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Also confirming that CONCORD will destroy you for ECM bursting people agressed to you Of course CONCORD does not act in that case. But only in that unlikely case that you jam nothing neutral. It would be hilariously easy to trap miners with ECM bursts by warping a neutral, not aggressed, alt with the attackers. So yes, still a brilliant advice. Regarding the alignment, it was not specifically directed towards you. Just wanted to point it out. PS: "miners with ECM bursts" shall be my next corp name. Oh I'm sorry, is it common practice for gankers to bring neutral alts with them?
Eh? It's not?
Then use the damn tactic...
Besides what do you care anyway, a hulk isn't going to survive a gank from multiple catalysts whether you tank it or not, your dead either way. Does it matter if CONCORD is the one that gets you? Seems worth it to me for a chance to evade otherwise certain death
And you KNOW you'll look like the hardest motherfracker in EVE when people see you suicide ganking catalysts in a hulk
Copine Callmeknau wrote:Theodoric Darkwind wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote: While his ideas are derptarded, the basic premise that nullbearing is currently as safe or safer than hisec bearing is a valid one.
you have clearly never lived in null. And you are clearly incapable of reading a thread in it's entirety, or clicking a character to check it's employment history. Tell me, how many years of schooling did you have to repeat before settling for a GED? I was in the middle of editing this before being rudely interrupted by ISD
I took the time to check out your employment history One day lad, you'll understand EVE and be able to make accurate statements about it's gameplay If you're seeing my faceless ass posting in your forums, it means Copine Callmeknau is drunk or banned ;) *COMING SOON* -- A face |
Cebraio
Starfire Oasis
147
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:03:00 -
[112] - Quote
Oh hello, nice alt.
Taurich Vorsel wrote:Cebraio wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:Also confirming that CONCORD will destroy you for ECM bursting people agressed to you Of course CONCORD does not act in that case. But only in that unlikely case that you jam nothing neutral. It would be hilariously easy to trap miners with ECM bursts by warping a neutral, not aggressed, alt with the attackers. So yes, still a brilliant advice. Regarding the alignment, it was not specifically directed towards you. Just wanted to point it out. PS: "miners with ECM bursts" shall be my next corp name. Oh I'm sorry, is it common practice for gankers to bring neutral alts with them? In cases where they expect valuable loot drops, yes. In cases like Hulk ganks, probably not.
Taurich Vorsel wrote: Then use the damn tactic...
No thanks. Why would I listen to you anyway? I'm not a miner and I'm not that stupid. I just like to point out when people make silly suggestions and present them as solutions for surviving a gank. These kind of suggestions happen a lot on that topic.
There are many ways to avoid ganks or increase survivability. This one is probably the worst. Also, as soon as miners would use this tactic (lol), gankers would surely bring neutral alts.
Taurich Vorsel wrote: Seems worth it to me for a chance to evade otherwise certain death
Then go ahead and prove to us that it works. Good luck.
|
Joe Skellington
Sarz'na Khumatari THE UNTHINKABLES
68
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:04:00 -
[113] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:strenif wrote:I'm a 0.0 guy and I'm out here not because it's 'safer' (it isn't) but because the threats are clearly marked.
When I have to make a run to highsec I'm more nervous when I get then then when I'm flying through null. Anyone of the hundred people in local could be a suicide ganker or they could be a normal person. I equate the scenario to a solder being on the beaches of Normandy vs the streets of Baghdad. In the former, the bad guys are waring uniforms. The later the bad guys look like the noncombatants that surround you on a daily basis. Which do you think is safer and which do you think is less nerve wracking? Exactly this I suppose the safety in all levels of EVE is the same: You can be shot anytime, anywhere, by anyone But the perceived security is different across different areas in space. And for me at least, the perceived security is higher in nullsec than in highsec. There are also more perceived threats in highsec than nullsec Basically what I'm saying is that you're all a massive bunch of pussies and REAL MEN with REAL BAWLS live in lowsec You know I'm right and you're just jelly that you ain't a BAWS
It's only safer in Nullsec if you have good people in your alliance, otherwise your in deep hocky doodoo.
Please note that ASCII art is not permitted in the forum signatures. Spitfire |
Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:06:00 -
[114] - Quote
If you don't know how to blow up ships in empire, you are doing it wrong. |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:06:00 -
[115] - Quote
Valek Noor wrote:this age old long winded argument basically comes to one thing if you stand far enough back
the ability to go AFK
folks in empire seem to think they should be safe as houses if they leave there PC for a while, carry on mining/hauling AFK while they go do something else, CCP and the game should protect them while they make ooodles of isk risk free
Null sec folks know different- leave PC while not safe = death
Stupid enough not to warp when red comes into local when mining = death
null sec folks ganking in empire are merely trying to help educate those in empire to the higher aspects of the game.........
It really is as clear as mud when you look at it
As the topic creator, I never asked for any buffs to highsec. What I did ask for, was serious nerfs to 0.0 carebears.
0.0 always talk stories about "REAL EVE" and "harsh 0.0 spaceship sandbox" - however, when you look at the actual mechanics, you can see that these stories are simply not true, and far too many game mechanics protect them from anything dangerous from happening to them. Yes, AFKing in 0.0 space is more dangerous, but that is about it. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1412
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:12:00 -
[116] - Quote
make all of highsec into 0.0 so everyone can be as safe as us nullsec dwellers let all of the autopiloting freighters see how safe it is |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:30:00 -
[117] - Quote
that beast wrote:Alrighty, so, ignoring the big mess of c*** going on in Delve right now (which yes, is a war by the way), there are plenty of other 0.0 regions/systems.
So why doesn't OP and everyone with him go down to 0.0 and mine (after all, it's where the slightly more expensive minerals are) and then we'll see how safe it really is?
People who currently live in null will have, at some point or other, carebeared and lived in high sec, if only because it's where everyone starts. But people who live in highsec haven't necessarily lived in null, and so, on the scale of things, the people who are more likely to be the best informed about various areas of the game, are the ones who live in null.
I'm not saying either side is right, but I would like to see some of the highsec carebears coming down to mine in null because we could all do with a few more kills. And if you say "Blah but it's not the same for us because we don't have all the POS's and infrastructure and intel" then your original argument becomes a little bit moot with the yno "Null is just as safe". Arguing that the "nullbears" have made it safe for themselves is perfectly valid, and it's fine for them to have done it. It's not really using game mechanics other than that incredibly basic mechanic of "There are players in the game, other plays can interact with them". However, regardless of whether or not they've made it safe, that's still only a localised safety net. It is still dangerous, if you get my drift.
Anyway, if OP is right, then he can come down to null and start mining and make lots more money than he currently is, because he won't die, he won't even get suicide ganked, and he'll get the more valuble ores. So why doesn't he? OP your argument is fundamentally flawed.
TB
Please, tell me, how do you counter this:
Quote: event 1. neutral/red jumps into 0.0 system event 2. every hulk/raven/cnr/vindicator/maradeur/carrier click on "Warp to POS/SS/DOCK."
Local is a problem, remove it from the game.
As to the "we make it safe ourselves" - yeah, you do, because EVE 0.0 sov mechanics(and local) make it too easy and too safe to do so. When CCP started adding some "cool" sov mechanics such as Sov 4, JB or Cynojammers - This made 0.0 even safer for alliances, even though, it was quite obvious there were major flaws in 0.0 mechanics before those changes. I never saw any 0.0 far easier and safer. |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:31:00 -
[118] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:make all of highsec into 0.0 so everyone can be as safe as us nullsec dwellers let all of the autopiloting freighters see how safe it is
remove local from game, let's see all the 0.0 bears see what unconsensual pvp is then. |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:32:00 -
[119] - Quote
Joe Skellington wrote:It's only safer in Nullsec if you have good people in your alliance, otherwise your in deep hocky doodoo. So, in essence... if you suck at EVE, you're not safe anywhere. This thread is pointless.
Looking at local takes great skill and great allies. c/d? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1412
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:36:00 -
[120] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:make all of highsec into 0.0 so everyone can be as safe as us nullsec dwellers let all of the autopiloting freighters see how safe it is remove local from game, let's see all the 0.0 bears see what unconsensual pvp is then. Sure, turn all of EVE into sov 0.0 and turn off local should be fun
but I mean really, if we're all so safe like you've been claiming, you should have no problem with all of highsec being turned into 0.0 and thus everyone enjoying equal safety, right? |
|
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
552
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:37:00 -
[121] - Quote
Well you're just full of dumb ideas, aren't you?
Tell me more about that pve supercarrier idea you had. |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:40:00 -
[122] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:You make it safe, thanks to the game mechanics. So the players make it safe, because the game mechanics make it safe. Nice.
Highsec players make good isk, because the game mechanics allow them to make good isk. Quite nice indeed. So stop whining about highsec?
No highsec carebear argues against risk vs reward, but there seems to be a lack of risk in 0.0. Goons seems to make sound like arguing for nerfing rewards is a good thing, but arguing for increasing risks in 0.0 space is stupid...
|
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:41:00 -
[123] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:make all of highsec into 0.0 so everyone can be as safe as us nullsec dwellers let all of the autopiloting freighters see how safe it is remove local from game, let's see all the 0.0 bears see what unconsensual pvp is then. Sure, turn all of EVE into sov 0.0 and turn off local should be fun but I mean really, if we're all so safe like you've been claiming, you should have no problem with all of highsec being turned into 0.0 and thus everyone enjoying equal safety, right?
I agree, let's do that. |
Taurich Vorsel
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:41:00 -
[124] - Quote
Cebraio wrote:Oh hello, nice alt. Taurich Vorsel wrote: Oh I'm sorry, is it common practice for gankers to bring neutral alts with them?
In cases where they expect valuable loot drops, yes. In cases like Hulk ganks, probably not. Taurich Vorsel wrote: Then use the damn tactic...
No thanks. Why would I listen to you anyway? I'm not a miner and I'm not that stupid. I just like to point out when people make silly suggestions and present them as solutions for surviving a gank. These kind of suggestions happen a lot on that topic. There are many ways to avoid ganks or increase survivability. This one is probably the worst. Also, as soon as miners would use this tactic (lol), gankers would surely bring neutral alts. Taurich Vorsel wrote: Seems worth it to me for a chance to evade otherwise certain death
Then go ahead and prove to us that it works. Good luck. It is a nice alt isn't it? I'm surprised you were able to figure it out, I figured that listing my mains name in my sig and having the same avatar as my main but facing the other way with black hair might have been a tad subtle for most. You sir are in line for detective of the year.
Really, your argument for why this won't work is because gankers will bring a counter? Have you some magical tactic that gankers won't bother to counter? Of course you don't
No, I'm not going to grind my sec status positive again and skill for a hulk just so I can prove to you that ECM functions as intended. It's game mechanics, I already know it works. Feel free to name some midslot modules that would be more likely to save your ass than ECM burst please. Copine Callmeknau disappeared one day now we are left with Taurich Vorsel AKA BIZARRO COPE! |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:45:00 -
[125] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Well you're just full of dumb ideas, aren't you?
Tell me more about that pve supercarrier idea you had.
Tell me more about, how it was necessary to add Sov4, sov upgrades, JB, Cynojammers into the game.
Tell me more about the complex game mechanics behind watching local channel.
Tell me more about the fact, that TEST alliance can lose every asset they have in 0.0 space. |
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
62
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:47:00 -
[126] - Quote
Valek Noor wrote:this age old long winded argument basically comes to one thing if you stand far enough back
the ability to go AFK
folks in empire seem to think they should be safe as houses if they leave there PC for a while, carry on mining/hauling AFK while they go do something else, CCP and the game should protect them while they make ooodles of isk risk free
Null sec folks know different- leave PC while not safe = death
Stupid enough not to warp when red comes into local when mining = death
null sec folks ganking in empire are merely trying to help educate those in empire to the higher aspects of the game.........
It really is as clear as mud when you look at it
Or, to read it in practice, you setup the warn utility to beep when any neutral enters in local and when it happens either you stop watching dirty videos and alt tab and warp to safe or a macro will do it for you.
Got it.
|
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:50:00 -
[127] - Quote
I love highsec. especially trade hubs like Hek. noone watches local as often as they do in nullsec. makes an easier time to surprise victims. |
Narcan Pandora
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:53:00 -
[128] - Quote
You should not remove the safety of high-sec. You should put more rewards in low and nul sec. Get them to come out. |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 15:58:00 -
[129] - Quote
Narcan Pandora wrote:You should not remove the safety of high-sec. You should put more rewards in low and nul sec. Get them to come out.
This topic is about adding risk to 0.0. |
InternetSpaceship
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:07:00 -
[130] - Quote
Hey, let's make some more threads about goons! I saw a goon the other day! He got shot and cried all over the forums about it. No, I don't have any links.
Goons sure are irrelevant, let's post more threads about them to really drive that point home. Literally everyone in this thread who isn't in goonswarm is a goon alt.
I think that should take care of this thread, go ahead and close it now, ISD. Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.
If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.-á If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you. |
|
Cebraio
Starfire Oasis
148
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:12:00 -
[131] - Quote
Taurich Vorsel wrote: It is a nice alt isn't it? I'm surprised you were able to figure it out, I figured that listing my mains name in my sig and having the same avatar as my main but facing the other way with black hair might have been a tad subtle for most. You sir are in line for detective of the year.
Thanks, I'm honored. But actually it was easier than that: Your portrait did not show up when you posted. It only shows now.
Taurich Vorsel wrote: Really, your argument for why this won't work is because gankers will bring a counter? Have you some magical tactic that gankers won't bother to counter? Of course you don't
Fit hulk with shield extenders, invulns and deployed ECM drones. Have support with shield transporters (orca and /or logis). I think gankers won't bother to counter that, if there are weaker targets around.
Taurich Vorsel wrote: No, I'm not going to grind my sec status positive again and skill for a hulk just so I can prove to you that ECM functions as intended. It's game mechanics, I already know it works.
You don't have to grind, since you have this alt. But this shows, you are making a suggestion that clearly doesn't work in many cases and that you never have tried.
Taurich Vorsel wrote: Feel free to name some midslot modules that would be more likely to save your ass than ECM burst please.
See above.
To list the flaws in your theory: ECM burst does not work when.. - one neutral happens to be around - one neutral is brought in by gankers (either from the beginning, or when they see the target uses lol ECM burst) - one neutral is already cloaked there, as a warp in point (I guess ECM burst affects cloaked ships. Could be wrong though) - gankers use ships that are out of burst radius (though unlikely against Hulks) - Hulk runs out of capacitor (after aprox. 3 activations) - ... There are probably more fail situations.
Now please, admit it's a stupid idea and get over it. Either way, I'm done with this discussion.
|
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems Tactical Narcotics Team
13
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:24:00 -
[132] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. the game mechanics allow me to shoot literally anybody i want in nullsec without some arbitrary time window in which I have to kill them before I'm popped by ridiculously overpowered peacekeepers ergo, nullsec is actually risky 1. Goons mine 0.0 in hulks. 2. Neutral/red jumps into system. 3. Goons warp to pos/ss/station. What is the counter? In 0.0 you can use local for 100% perfect defense, in highsec you cannot. Keep telling yourself stories about arbitrary time windows, fact is 0.0 hulk safer than in highsec. The same thing can happen in high sec too. If you pay attention to local you can't lose a ship in highsec too. What's your point? |
baltec1
1592
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:30:00 -
[133] - Quote
Taurich Vorsel wrote:
No, I'm not going to grind my sec status positive again and skill for a hulk just so I can prove to you that ECM functions as intended. It's game mechanics, I already know it works. Feel free to name some midslot modules that would be more likely to save your ass than ECM burst please.
A tank perhaps? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1412
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:35:00 -
[134] - Quote
Quote:Now, mining is more dangerous in highsec(because local is of no help). Time to add some risk to the 0.0, to balance things out. mining in highsec requires you fit a tank, then no catalyst poses a threat. Many don't do this however. However all hulks in 0.0 require tanks if only to suck up the damage from belt rats. All solo hulks do this. Thus, belt rats in 0.0 alone pose a greater threat to miners then suicide gankers do.
|
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
368
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:37:00 -
[135] - Quote
Wormholes are much more dangerous than 0.0 Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1412
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:38:00 -
[136] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Wormholes are much more dangerous than 0.0 Then why do they have the least amount of losses per player then every other region except for highsec? |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:54:00 -
[137] - Quote
Mithrantir Ob'lontra wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. the game mechanics allow me to shoot literally anybody i want in nullsec without some arbitrary time window in which I have to kill them before I'm popped by ridiculously overpowered peacekeepers ergo, nullsec is actually risky 1. Goons mine 0.0 in hulks. 2. Neutral/red jumps into system. 3. Goons warp to pos/ss/station. What is the counter? In 0.0 you can use local for 100% perfect defense, in highsec you cannot. Keep telling yourself stories about arbitrary time windows, fact is 0.0 hulk safer than in highsec. The same thing can happen in high sec too. If you pay attention to local you can't lose a ship in highsec too. What's your point?
Doesn't work because,
1. you only know if someone is hostile to you after they have ganked you.
2. there is random traffic, that doesn't affect you.
If Every alliance had every corp/alliance blue by default and if you could remotely join any local channel in the game, then maybe you would have a point. In fact, if they reversed the change of showing standings in local - that would be a good start. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1387
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:54:00 -
[138] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. Players and collective effort are what made it safe, not game mechanics. Don't like spaceships sandbox? then this is not the game for you. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:55:00 -
[139] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
but I mean really, if we're all so safe like you've been claiming, you should have no problem with all of highsec being turned into 0.0 and thus everyone enjoying equal safety, right?
I agree, let's do that. edit: Also, before that, major nerfs to defensive infrastructure. Sure. Quote:Now, mining is more dangerous in highsec(because local is of no help). Time to add some risk to the 0.0, to balance things out. if you fit a tank, then no catalyst poses a threat to your hulk. Many don't do this however. However all hulks in 0.0 require tanks if only to suck up the damage from belt rats. All solo hulks do this. Thus, belt rats in 0.0 alone pose a greater threat to miners then suicide gankers do.
Funny how 0.0 rats pose a greater threat on 0.0 hulks than any 0.0 player does. |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:56:00 -
[140] - Quote
Sarah Schneider wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. Players and collective effort are what made it safe, not game mechanics.
Tell me more about the collective effort of watching local channel.
edit: if you removed local, you would actually have to have collective effort - having intel, having semi-pve-pvp fit, having backup ready in station and what not - all of this would require teamwork, rather "oh, someone in local, within 15 seconds I have warped to pos/ss/station." |
|
Generals4
966
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:57:00 -
[141] - Quote
Mithrantir Ob'lontra wrote: The same thing can happen in high sec too. If you pay attention to local you can't lose a ship in highsec too. What's your point?
Realistically speaking not. If one were to use local in high as it is used in null one wouldn't ever be able to undock. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1412
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 16:58:00 -
[142] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:[quote=TotalCareBear] Quote:Now, mining is more dangerous in highsec(because local is of no help). Time to add some risk to the 0.0, to balance things out. if you fit a tank, then no catalyst poses a threat to your hulk. Many don't do this however. However all hulks in 0.0 require tanks if only to suck up the damage from belt rats. All solo hulks do this. Thus, belt rats in 0.0 alone pose a greater threat to miners then suicide gankers do. Funny how 0.0 rats pose a greater threat on 0.0 hulks than any 0.0 player does. Haha you misread. 0.0 rats pose a greater threat on 0.0 hulks then any highsec ganker poses to any highsec miner. That's not an empty claim, that is empirically verifiable fact. It simply goes without saying that any 0.0 player aggresses a 0.0 miner, the miner is dead. |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:03:00 -
[143] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:[quote=TotalCareBear] Quote:Now, mining is more dangerous in highsec(because local is of no help). Time to add some risk to the 0.0, to balance things out. if you fit a tank, then no catalyst poses a threat to your hulk. Many don't do this however. However all hulks in 0.0 require tanks if only to suck up the damage from belt rats. All solo hulks do this. Thus, belt rats in 0.0 alone pose a greater threat to miners then suicide gankers do. Funny how 0.0 rats pose a greater threat on 0.0 hulks than any 0.0 player does. Haha you misread. 0.0 rats pose a greater threat on 0.0 hulks then any highsec ganker poses to any highsec miner. That's not an empty claim, that is empirically verifiable fact. It simply goes without saying that any 0.0 player aggresses a 0.0 miner, the miner is dead.
Tell me, how to aggress a 0.0 hulk. Thanks to local, you cannot.
Only realistic option is awox, but this would be more common problem, if eve didn't have full API, public killboard and employment history. 0.0 carebears get everything they want. |
ps3ud0nym
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
87
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:07:00 -
[144] - Quote
The funniest thing about this post is that those are changes that Goons and the nul sec alliance have been trying to push for quite some time for the most part.
That being said, there is a MAJOR difference between safety in high-sec and safety in 0.0. In 0.0 it is safe because the players MAKE it safe where in high-sec it is safe due to no effort or organization on the part of people who live there. It is entirely mechanics based.
What you appear to want is no safety unless it is created by game mechanics. You want mechanics to trump organization and effort. If you want to be safe, get people together and MAKE it safe. All those nul sec organizations started as small corps in empire and the ones you ***** about the most have had to work far harder than most corps. The time that Dreddit, the founding corp of TEST, has spent where they WEREN'T in a war dec can be measured in days. That is from the very first day of their founding. We aren't talking one war here. We are talking multiple wars at all times, well before they ever made the jump into nul sec.
Alliances and corps in 0.0 have to work for everything they got and they have to work constantly to keep it. In contrast, the people of Empire have to do absolutely nothing to benefit from the safety offered in high-sec. It isn't just risk/reward, it is also effort/reward. If safety is your reward, then you had better get off your ass and do something, you shouldn't get something for nothing.
So ya, nerf high-sec. There should be no place in this game where you get something for nothing. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3813
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:14:00 -
[145] - Quote
basically this is highsec mining scum bleeting about how since miners in 0.0 are about eleven billion times smarter than they are c/d? |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:20:00 -
[146] - Quote
ps3ud0nym wrote:The funniest thing about this post is that those are changes that Goons and the nul sec alliance have been trying to push for quite some time for the most part.
That being said, there is a MAJOR difference between safety in high-sec and safety in 0.0. In 0.0 it is safe because the players MAKE it safe where in high-sec it is safe due to no effort or organization on the part of people who live there. It is entirely mechanics based.
What you appear to want is no safety unless it is created by game mechanics. You want mechanics to trump organization and effort. If you want to be safe, get people together and MAKE it safe. All those nul sec organizations started as small corps in empire and the ones you ***** about the most have had to work far harder than most corps. The time that Dreddit, the founding corp of TEST, has spent where they WEREN'T in a war dec can be measured in days. That is from the very first day of their founding. We aren't talking one war here. We are talking multiple wars at all times, well before they ever made the jump into nul sec.
Alliances and corps in 0.0 have to work for everything they got and they have to work constantly to keep it. In contrast, the people of Empire have to do absolutely nothing to benefit from the safety offered in high-sec. It isn't just risk/reward, it is also effort/reward. If safety is your reward, then you had better get off your ass and do something, you shouldn't get something for nothing.
So ya, nerf high-sec. There should be no place in this game where you get something for nothing.
How many times, do I have to reply to these...
Local requires no collective effort whatsoever. Really, this keeps repeating... What part of "Someone in local, Warp to SS/POS/Station" is hard, what part of it requires collective effort? "Collective intel or gangs" have really minor effect on alliance players, as local still is the best line of defense vs being ganked when carebearing in 0.0.
And game mechanic changes have favored 0.0 alliances. You can't possibly argue against changes putting them at disfavor, given that they have had plenty of boosts. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1387
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:20:00 -
[147] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Sarah Schneider wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. Players and collective effort are what made it safe, not game mechanics. Tell me more about the collective effort of watching local channel. edit: if you removed local, you would actually have to have collective effort - having intel, having semi-pve-pvp fit, having backup ready in station and what not - all of this would require teamwork, rather "oh, someone in local, within 15 seconds I have warped to pos/ss/station." Removing local will effectively diminish intel channels, at least to the extent that they will no longer be an accurate form of 'intel'. It requires a massive amount of organization and work to establish a home region with logistics (POSes, JB network, etc.) to make it 'safe'.
Aside from moon goos, a relatively safe space with high rewards are an incentive for alliances to invade and take other people's space. You're talking about a major full blown nerf to this incentive without any balancing factor. People go to null space to pvp, yes, but for people to go and live in nullsec, there has to be a significant amount of reward, in this case, a safe(r) place to go to and make isk. Without local, or a proper intel source, there would be far far less people out in space doing non-pvp stuff in nullsec, thus, far less people to blow up and less motivation to take over someone else's space and in the end, less motivation for larger scale conflict in nullsec in whole. Don't like spaceships sandbox? then this is not the game for you. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
baltec1
1592
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:25:00 -
[148] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:
How many times, do I have to reply to these...
Local requires no collective effort whatsoever. Really, this keeps repeating... What part of "Someone in local, Warp to SS/POS/Station" is hard, what part of it requires collective effort? "Collective intel or gangs" have really minor effect on alliance players, as local still is the best line of defense vs being ganked when carebearing in 0.0.
And game mechanic changes have favored 0.0 alliances. You can't possibly argue against changes putting them at disfavor, given that they have had plenty of boosts.
Yet I still kill people trying to ship goods and mine in 0.0 |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1387
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:28:00 -
[149] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:
How many times, do I have to reply to these...
Local requires no collective effort whatsoever. Really, this keeps repeating... What part of "Someone in local, Warp to SS/POS/Station" is hard, what part of it requires collective effort? "Collective intel or gangs" have really minor effect on alliance players, as local still is the best line of defense vs being ganked when carebearing in 0.0.
And game mechanic changes have favored 0.0 alliances. You can't possibly argue against changes putting them at disfavor, given that they have had plenty of boosts.
Yet I still kill people trying to ship goods and mine in 0.0 I think I've killed a bunch of ratting nightmares and tengus a while back and I'm pretty sure they have their own 'intel channels' as well. Just sayin. Don't like spaceships sandbox? then this is not the game for you. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
baltec1
1593
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:32:00 -
[150] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Sarah Schneider wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. Players and collective effort are what made it safe, not game mechanics. Tell me more about the collective effort of watching local channel. edit: if you removed local, you would actually have to have collective effort - having intel, having semi-pve-pvp fit, having backup ready in station and what not - all of this would require teamwork, rather "oh, someone in local, within 15 seconds I have warped to pos/ss/station."
Or if you are like me you dock up and grab a combat ship to deal with the enemy. Afterall if you dock up every time something pops up then you will not be keeping that space for long. |
|
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:33:00 -
[151] - Quote
Sarah Schneider wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Sarah Schneider wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. Players and collective effort are what made it safe, not game mechanics. Tell me more about the collective effort of watching local channel. edit: if you removed local, you would actually have to have collective effort - having intel, having semi-pve-pvp fit, having backup ready in station and what not - all of this would require teamwork, rather "oh, someone in local, within 15 seconds I have warped to pos/ss/station." Removing local will effectively diminish intel channels, at least to the extent that they will no longer be an accurate form of 'intel'. It requires a massive amount of organization and work to establish a home region with logistics (POSes, JB network, etc.) to make it 'safe'. Aside from moon goos, a relatively safe space with high rewards are an incentive for alliances to invade and take other people's space. You're talking about a major full blown nerf to this incentive without any balancing factor. People go to null space to pvp, yes, but for people to go and live in nullsec, there has to be a significant amount of reward, in this case, a safe(r) place to go to and make isk. Without local, or a proper intel source, there would be far far less people out in space doing non-pvp stuff in nullsec, thus, far less people to blow up and less motivation to take over someone else's space and in the end, less motivation for larger scale conflict in nullsec in whole.
Actually, removing local would make intel channels valuable. Right now, you have no need for them, beyond organizing a counter gank or maybe moving stuff around when you don't have a scout alt nearby - local removes the need to actively look at intel channels, because there is no counter vs local. You can always safely warp away, if someone shows up on local. In fact, even minor changes such as undoing standings showing up on local or not showing neutral/enemy names and numbes in local or even a 1 minute delay on local would help this game.
Great, let's make 0.0 alliance space even more like highsec, in fact let's ban pvp in max upgrade sov systems so more people would move to 0.0. Is that your argument? 0.0 has dangerously little risk, adding some element of risk & losses to 0.0 carebears would not hurt this game. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1413
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:37:00 -
[152] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:basically this is highsec mining scum bleeting about how since miners in 0.0 are about eleven billion times smarter than they are c/d? i think it's half that, half veiled incompetent roaming ganker whine |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:45:00 -
[153] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Sarah Schneider wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0. Players and collective effort are what made it safe, not game mechanics. Tell me more about the collective effort of watching local channel. edit: if you removed local, you would actually have to have collective effort - having intel, having semi-pve-pvp fit, having backup ready in station and what not - all of this would require teamwork, rather "oh, someone in local, within 15 seconds I have warped to pos/ss/station." Or if you are like me you dock up and grab a combat ship to deal with the enemy. Afterall if you dock up every time something pops up then you will not be keeping that space for long.
Wouldn't it be great if game mechanics allowed you to steal your 0.0 income, damage your earning potential, destroy poses, cause any damage at all with anything less than a supercapblob? Even if the enemy gather a blob, they can't effectively lock down and destroy your assets... all the while you wait for reinforced timers. |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:46:00 -
[154] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Weaselior wrote:basically this is highsec mining scum bleeting about how since miners in 0.0 are about eleven billion times smarter than they are c/d? i think it's half that, half veiled incompetent roaming ganker whine
Think you mine in a hulk and enjoy your safe systems and love your local. A true 0.0 carebear. Go on, post more about cold and harsh pvp 0.0 space.
ps. I want to pay 10M-50M to concord to blow up any hulk randomly in 0.0 space, just like goons do in highsec. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1413
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:52:00 -
[155] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Weaselior wrote:basically this is highsec mining scum bleeting about how since miners in 0.0 are about eleven billion times smarter than they are c/d? i think it's half that, half veiled incompetent roaming ganker whine Think you mine in a hulk and enjoy your safe systems and love your local. A true 0.0 carebear. Go on, post more about cold and harsh pvp 0.0 space. Nailed it. |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
218
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:54:00 -
[156] - Quote
ps3ud0nym wrote:... So ya, nerf high-sec. There should be no place in this game where you get something for nothing. Arguments about paying a subscription fee aside, players in hi-sec are only playing a small part of the game. They get a small part of the reward. Mining or doing missions isn't nothing. Incursions aren't "nothing" either, but they've been hit a tad too hard by the nerf bat.
I certainly don't believe hi-sec should be nerfed, but I don't think Concord or barges need buffing. Buff teamwork... (see my sig) Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
baltec1
1593
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 17:55:00 -
[157] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:
Wouldn't it be great if game mechanics allowed you to steal your 0.0 income, damage your earning potential, destroy poses, cause any damage at all with anything less than a supercapblob? Even if the enemy gather a blob, they can't effectively lock down and destroy your assets... all the while you wait for reinforced timers.
Look up what happened in Venal from 2006 to 2010 when it was considered the Afghanistan of EVE. The superpowers all tried to conquer it and all of them died horribly. |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1389
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 18:08:00 -
[158] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote: Actually, removing local would make intel channels valuable. Right now, you have no need for them, beyond organizing a counter gank or maybe moving stuff around when you don't have a scout alt nearby - local removes the need to actively look at intel channels, because there is no counter vs local. You can always safely warp away, if someone shows up on local. In fact, even minor changes such as undoing standings showing up on local or not showing neutral/enemy names and numbes in local or even a 1 minute delay on local would help this game.
So how would you propose this "intel channels" gathers information from? People in stations? no local. People actively camping gates with cloakies to provide intel? without local, this would require a massively unrealistic amount of people, fully active, 23/7, on each gates (or on every gates within dscan range), just to achieve the same, even lesser amount of intel.
TotalCareBear wrote: Great, let's make 0.0 alliance space even more like highsec, in fact let's ban pvp in max upgrade sov systems so more people would move to 0.0. Is that your argument? 0.0 has dangerously little risk, adding some element of risk & losses to 0.0 carebears would not hurt this game.
What you're talking about is not "adding some element of risk & losses", for an open space like nullsec (in comparison to wormholes), removing local is the same as burning down the one thing that made nullsec actually viable to live in. The word is "living" in, nullsec. Not roaming around or travelling around in null, but actually live in nullsec. Some alliances took over spaces based on this sole reason, even with alliance level incentives such as goos, they'd still need safe space to keep morale high and so that people can make a home in that space. A lot of people go to null to pvp, but to think of it as a home, you'll have to provide a form of incentive. Local, provides a safety net that made that incentive worth the risk.
Even with proper intel channels provided by local, people still kill other people in null, even the so called zero risk ratting ships. We even hunt people using local as a quick form of information gathering. So it goes both ways..
Don't like spaceships sandbox? then this is not the game for you. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3813
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 18:12:00 -
[159] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Weaselior wrote:basically this is highsec mining scum bleeting about how since miners in 0.0 are about eleven billion times smarter than they are c/d? i think it's half that, half veiled incompetent roaming ganker whine Think you mine in a hulk and enjoy your safe systems and love your local. A true 0.0 carebear. Go on, post more about cold and harsh pvp 0.0 space. ps. I want to pay 10M-50M to concord to blow up any hulk randomly in 0.0 space, just like goons do in highsec. in 0.0 people learn
in highsec they cry endlessly
all strategies that work in 0.0 work in highsec, it's just the highsec miner is intellectually incapable of using them |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1154
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 18:16:00 -
[160] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Wouldn't it be great if game mechanics allowed you to steal your 0.0 income, damage your earning potential, destroy poses, cause any damage at all with anything less than a supercapblob?. Look up what happened in Venal from 2006 to 2010 when it was considered the Afghanistan of EVE. The superpowers all tried to conquer it and all of them died horribly. I think you need to observe what happens when a Big Red Boat is deployed. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
|
Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
179
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 18:17:00 -
[161] - Quote
Never mind. |
baltec1
1593
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 18:18:00 -
[162] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:baltec1 wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Wouldn't it be great if game mechanics allowed you to steal your 0.0 income, damage your earning potential, destroy poses, cause any damage at all with anything less than a supercapblob?. Look up what happened in Venal from 2006 to 2010 when it was considered the Afghanistan of EVE. The superpowers all tried to conquer it and all of them died horribly. I think you need to observe what happens when a Big Red Boat is deployed.
He flew my mega into a sky full of bombs on thursday |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 18:31:00 -
[163] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Alaya Carrier wrote:His ideas might be very dumb, but they are not dumber than most 0.0 dwellers ideas. Tell me the dumb ideas that normally come from 0.0 dwellers
Nerf Hisec comes to mind. It's pretty pathetic as is, you'll break it if you do anything else to it at this point.
Richard Desturned wrote:Bootleg Jack wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec another nullbear with nothing usefull to say i do love it when hisec miners talk about "nullbears" i wonder, what defines a "nullbear"
Anyone that complains about the PvE aspects of other players not in nulsec while making massive amounts of Isk from PvE in nulsec.
You asked.
All in all, I've learned that it's all relative, and that nulsec dwellers want everyone to play their game, hisec dwellers just want to play their game, and there's no such thing as a losec dweller.
Ok, just kidding. There are losec dwellers, and quite frankly, losec should be the place where all the choicest morsels are at, for maximum risk application. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra Gallente Federation
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 20:02:00 -
[164] - Quote
Sarah Schneider wrote:TotalCareBear wrote: Actually, removing local would make intel channels valuable. Right now, you have no need for them, beyond organizing a counter gank or maybe moving stuff around when you don't have a scout alt nearby - local removes the need to actively look at intel channels, because there is no counter vs local. You can always safely warp away, if someone shows up on local. In fact, even minor changes such as undoing standings showing up on local or not showing neutral/enemy names and numbes in local or even a 1 minute delay on local would help this game.
So how would you propose this "intel channels" gathers information from? People in stations? no local. People actively camping gates with cloakies to provide intel? without local, this would require a massively unrealistic amount of people, fully active, 23/7, on each gates (or on every gates within dscan range), just to achieve the same, even lesser amount of intel. TotalCareBear wrote: Great, let's make 0.0 alliance space even more like highsec, in fact let's ban pvp in max upgrade sov systems so more people would move to 0.0. Is that your argument? 0.0 has dangerously little risk, adding some element of risk & losses to 0.0 carebears would not hurt this game.
What you're talking about is not "adding some element of risk & losses", for an open space like nullsec (in comparison to wormholes), removing local is the same as burning down the one thing that made nullsec actually viable to live in. The word is "living" in, nullsec. Not roaming around or travelling around in null, but actually live in nullsec. Some alliances took over spaces based on this sole reason, even with alliance level incentives such as goos, they'd still need safe space to keep morale high and so that people can make a home in that space. A lot of people go to null to pvp, but to think of it as a home, you'll have to provide a form of incentive. Local, provides a safety net that made that incentive worth the risk. Even with proper intel channels provided by local, people still kill other people in null, even the so called zero risk ratting ships. We even hunt people using local as a quick form of information gathering. So it goes both ways.. Wow, I can't believe I agree with a Goonie pet. "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
|
ps3ud0nym
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
88
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 20:04:00 -
[165] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:ps3ud0nym wrote:The funniest thing about this post is that those are changes that Goons and the nul sec alliance have been trying to push for quite some time for the most part.
That being said, there is a MAJOR difference between safety in high-sec and safety in 0.0. In 0.0 it is safe because the players MAKE it safe where in high-sec it is safe due to no effort or organization on the part of people who live there. It is entirely mechanics based.
What you appear to want is no safety unless it is created by game mechanics. You want mechanics to trump organization and effort. If you want to be safe, get people together and MAKE it safe. All those nul sec organizations started as small corps in empire and the ones you ***** about the most have had to work far harder than most corps. The time that Dreddit, the founding corp of TEST, has spent where they WEREN'T in a war dec can be measured in days. That is from the very first day of their founding. We aren't talking one war here. We are talking multiple wars at all times, well before they ever made the jump into nul sec.
Alliances and corps in 0.0 have to work for everything they got and they have to work constantly to keep it. In contrast, the people of Empire have to do absolutely nothing to benefit from the safety offered in high-sec. It isn't just risk/reward, it is also effort/reward. If safety is your reward, then you had better get off your ass and do something, you shouldn't get something for nothing.
So ya, nerf high-sec. There should be no place in this game where you get something for nothing. How many times, do I have to reply to these... Local requires no collective effort whatsoever. Really, this keeps repeating... What part of "Someone in local, Warp to SS/POS/Station" is hard, what part of it requires collective effort? "Collective intel or gangs" have really minor effect on alliance players, as local still is the best line of defense vs being ganked when carebearing in 0.0. And game mechanic changes have favored 0.0 alliances. You can't possibly argue against changes putting them at disfavor, given that they have had plenty of boosts.
Oh ya! Totally advantages to Nul sec! The moon redistribution really helped all the alliances down south! How about the Anom changes? Those certainly made nul-sec better! And the changes to jump bridges! That put us WAY a head.
You are an idiot. Nul-sec has been nerfed to the point that there isn't even much point in taking space at all. The CFC is quite a bit different from other organizations in that it has a need for space in order to give their members a place to live and play the game. There is not much of any reason for anyone else to hold space. You don't need sov to get moon goo and are better off if you don't have it. Ratting income has been horribly nerfed as there are only a few systems in each region now that are worth ratting in at all, and to get that you have to spend billions in system upgrades first (never mind having to rat like mad to get the military indexes up). Moon income for anything other than tech is negligible and not worth the cost of running the POS. PI is similarly not worth the amount of effort that you have to put in. You can't run missions as NPC 0.0 is a totally different game than Sov 0.0. Exploration isn't bad, but the rewards are nearly the same as in high-sec for the same thing.
So, lets compaire that to Empire. In Empire I can AFK run level 4 missions and make more than I can ratting in the vast majority of systems in 0.0 (and I don't have to complete with several hundred others over 4 sites). High-sec incursions also provide a safe and extremely lucrative way to make income. If you do exploration your income will be almost the same as in 0.0, but of course you run little to no risk of getting killed. You don't have to worry about logistics and getting equiptment and ships past the nul-sec entrance points, so moving stuff around to trade hubs is very safe. And then there is the massive buffs to high-sec that have happened over the past little while. High-sec incursions are the biggest, the next would be taking away the quality levels of agents. And while you do this you don't have to worry about home defence fleets, sov costs, system upgrades (which have to be moved in a freighter BTW) and having your stuff locked in a station when someone comes and flips the system.
Tell me again how nul-sec has an "advantage" over Empire? Empire is SUPPOSED to be for new players. The fact that the income potential is nearly the same as 0.0 with almost no danger is contrary to what EVE is supposed to be. What makes 0.0 profitable is co-operation and organization. If people make more in 0.0 it is because of that, not because they have an advantage. There needs to be a reason to BE in 0.0 beyond the social aspects. That means 0.0 needs a serious buff, to make it MUCH more attractive. Until then, the situation will remain fairly static. No one is going to attack a stronghold when there is little advantage in taking it in the first place.
|
MarKand
Aimonme Technology
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 20:17:00 -
[166] - Quote
ps3ud0nym wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:ps3ud0nym wrote:The funniest thing about this post is that those are changes that Goons and the nul sec alliance have been trying to push for quite some time for the most part.
That being said, there is a MAJOR difference between safety in high-sec and safety in 0.0. In 0.0 it is safe because the players MAKE it safe where in high-sec it is safe due to no effort or organization on the part of people who live there. It is entirely mechanics based.
What you appear to want is no safety unless it is created by game mechanics. You want mechanics to trump organization and effort. If you want to be safe, get people together and MAKE it safe. All those nul sec organizations started as small corps in empire and the ones you ***** about the most have had to work far harder than most corps. The time that Dreddit, the founding corp of TEST, has spent where they WEREN'T in a war dec can be measured in days. That is from the very first day of their founding. We aren't talking one war here. We are talking multiple wars at all times, well before they ever made the jump into nul sec.
Alliances and corps in 0.0 have to work for everything they got and they have to work constantly to keep it. In contrast, the people of Empire have to do absolutely nothing to benefit from the safety offered in high-sec. It isn't just risk/reward, it is also effort/reward. If safety is your reward, then you had better get off your ass and do something, you shouldn't get something for nothing.
So ya, nerf high-sec. There should be no place in this game where you get something for nothing. How many times, do I have to reply to these... Local requires no collective effort whatsoever. Really, this keeps repeating... What part of "Someone in local, Warp to SS/POS/Station" is hard, what part of it requires collective effort? "Collective intel or gangs" have really minor effect on alliance players, as local still is the best line of defense vs being ganked when carebearing in 0.0. And game mechanic changes have favored 0.0 alliances. You can't possibly argue against changes putting them at disfavor, given that they have had plenty of boosts. Oh ya! Totally advantages to Nul sec! The moon redistribution really helped all the alliances down south! How about the Anom changes? Those certainly made nul-sec better! And the changes to jump bridges! That put us WAY a head. You are an idiot. Nul-sec has been nerfed to the point that there isn't even much point in taking space at all. The CFC is quite a bit different from other organizations in that it has a need for space in order to give their members a place to live and play the game. There is not much of any reason for anyone else to hold space. You don't need sov to get moon goo and are better off if you don't have it. Ratting income has been horribly nerfed as there are only a few systems in each region now that are worth ratting in at all, and to get that you have to spend billions in system upgrades first (never mind having to rat like mad to get the military indexes up). Moon income for anything other than tech is negligible and not worth the cost of running the POS. PI is similarly not worth the amount of effort that you have to put in. You can't run missions as NPC 0.0 is a totally different game than Sov 0.0. Exploration isn't bad, but the rewards are nearly the same as in high-sec for the same thing. So, lets compaire that to Empire. In Empire I can AFK run level 4 missions and make more than I can ratting in the vast majority of systems in 0.0 (and I don't have to complete with several hundred others over 4 sites). High-sec incursions also provide a safe and extremely lucrative way to make income. If you do exploration your income will be almost the same as in 0.0, but of course you run little to no risk of getting killed. You don't have to worry about logistics and getting equiptment and ships past the nul-sec entrance points, so moving stuff around to trade hubs is very safe. And then there is the massive buffs to high-sec that have happened over the past little while. High-sec incursions are the biggest, the next would be taking away the quality levels of agents. And while you do this you don't have to worry about home defence fleets, sov costs, system upgrades (which have to be moved in a freighter BTW) and having your stuff locked in a station when someone comes and flips the system. Tell me again how nul-sec has an "advantage" over Empire? Empire is SUPPOSED to be for new players. The fact that the income potential is nearly the same as 0.0 with almost no danger is contrary to what EVE is supposed to be. What makes 0.0 profitable is co-operation and organization. If people make more in 0.0 it is because of that, not because they have an advantage. There needs to be a reason to BE in 0.0 beyond the social aspects. That means 0.0 needs a serious buff, to make it MUCH more attractive. Until then, the situation will remain fairly static. No one is going to attack a stronghold when there is little advantage in taking it in the first place.
Nuff said!
|
Makkal Hanaya
239
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 20:51:00 -
[167] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:If you think that nullsec is safer than highsec you're completely ignoring the actual statistics that prove how blatantly wrong you are.
Population vs Kills, Jan 2012. There's probably a spike in Null due to the current events in Delve, but it seems high-sec is incredably safe compared to null and low. [source]
I mostly do hauling, but a few nights ago I decided to 'hang out' with a friend who mines. For three hours, all she did was shoot at rocks and then bring them to the station. There were a ton of people out mining but not a peep in local about pirates or gankers. Yet she easily made more money than I do when I haul stuff through high and low sec.
Perhaps null-sec miners do their job in relative safety, but high sec miners appear to do the same. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 21:02:00 -
[168] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Sure, turn all of EVE into sov 0.0 and turn off local should be fun
[
So you're willing to turn off local if it makes the game impossible for new players.
|
strenif
Caldari War Machine STR8NGE BREW
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 21:10:00 -
[169] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:If you think that nullsec is safer than highsec you're completely ignoring the actual statistics that prove how blatantly wrong you are. Population vs Kills, Jan 2012. There's probably a spike in Null due to the current events in Delve, but it seems high-sec is incredably safe compared to null and low. [source]I mostly do hauling, but a few nights ago I decided to 'hang out' with a friend who mines. For three hours, all she did was shoot at rocks and then bring them to the station. There were a ton of people out mining but not a peep in local about pirates or gankers. Yet she easily made more money than I do when I haul stuff through high and low sec. Perhaps null-sec miners do their job in relative safety, but high sec miners appear to do the same.
Well there you go. Mathematical proof high sec is safer then null. |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
408
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 21:10:00 -
[170] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote: Lots of highsec players are getting tired of this constant goon/[enter alliance here] spam: "NERF HIGHSEC, RISK VS REWARD." Time to look at the real carebears - the 0.0 alliances - and start adding some risk to their game. Once all these changes have been made, we can have a serious discussion on lvl4/hulks in highsec.
Well you're half right, the things you list do indeed make Nullsec way too safe, but your wrong in the sense that Highsec Incursions and Missions still represent are greater imbalance of Risk vs Reward despite those things you listed about Null.
So how about this...
We remove Local Chat Intel from EVE (long overdue)
Nerf Jump freighters, jump bridges, and possibly other cap ships capable of bypassing the risks of traveling system to system via gates and transporting assets. To compensate we can make Gate travel slightly safer for all by increasing the jump in radius around a gate when you enter a new system to ~150k 360 degrees around the gate.
Then for Highsec it goes one of two ways...
All PvE but level 1 missions moved out to Low and Nullsec
Or
Remove CONCORD from everywhere but newbie starter systems that only have level one missions and the tutorial for PvE. On top of that Faction Police only protect those with good Standings, and security status is divided by Empire region so you can be a rabid -10 ganker in Amarr space, but a +5.1 pillar of the community in Minmatar space on the same character. |
|
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 21:13:00 -
[171] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:If you think that nullsec is safer than highsec you're completely ignoring the actual statistics that prove how blatantly wrong you are. Population vs Kills, Jan 2012. There's probably a spike in Null due to the current events in Delve, but it seems high-sec is incredably safe compared to null and low. [source]
If that active population or are all the shop alts and trial accounts included to massage the percent in your favor?
|
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1415
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 21:17:00 -
[172] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Sure, turn all of EVE into sov 0.0 and turn off local should be fun
[ So you're willing to turn off local if it makes the game impossible for new players. Haven't you heard? 0.0 = supersafe: Certainly, newbies should be in the safest region possible, hence, all space should be 0.0 space
hth |
Makkal Hanaya
239
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 21:22:00 -
[173] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Makkal Hanaya wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:If you think that nullsec is safer than highsec you're completely ignoring the actual statistics that prove how blatantly wrong you are. Population vs Kills, Jan 2012. There's probably a spike in Null due to the current events in Delve, but it seems high-sec is incredably safe compared to null and low. [source] If that active population or are all the shop alts and trial accounts included to massage the percent in your favor? It's based on the numbers CCP Diagoras provided. If you have questions on how exactly he generated them, your best bet is to ask him via his twitter. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
strenif
Caldari War Machine STR8NGE BREW
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 22:02:00 -
[174] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Sentamon wrote:Makkal Hanaya wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:If you think that nullsec is safer than highsec you're completely ignoring the actual statistics that prove how blatantly wrong you are. Population vs Kills, Jan 2012. There's probably a spike in Null due to the current events in Delve, but it seems high-sec is incredably safe compared to null and low. [source] If that active population or are all the shop alts and trial accounts included to massage the percent in your favor? It's based on the numbers CCP Diagoras provided. If you have questions on how exactly he generated them, your best bet is to ask him via his twitter. That said, I don't live or work in null-sec. I live in high-sec and work in both high and low-sec. The graph isn't much in my favor.
I think you missed his point.
The numbers you posted don't work out in favor of his position thus your numbers must be wrong. |
Generals4
966
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 22:06:00 -
[175] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Sentamon wrote:Makkal Hanaya wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:If you think that nullsec is safer than highsec you're completely ignoring the actual statistics that prove how blatantly wrong you are. Population vs Kills, Jan 2012. There's probably a spike in Null due to the current events in Delve, but it seems high-sec is incredably safe compared to null and low. [source] If that active population or are all the shop alts and trial accounts included to massage the percent in your favor? It's based on the numbers CCP Diagoras provided. If you have questions on how exactly he generated them, your best bet is to ask him via his twitter. That said, I don't live or work in null-sec. I live in high-sec and work in both high and low-sec. The graph isn't much in my favor.
Kills don't mean things aren't safe. When fleets go out to pvp their losses are voluntary and their deaths can hardly be considered as being part of some risky business. Let's also not forget that those stats contain the deaths in border systems and npc null). I think that when refering to "riskless null" people refer to deep sov space, where, let's be honest, risk is minimal. On top of that there are many many alts present in high sec. What would be an interesting but impossible to acquire stat is the ratio : people forced into involuntary pvp / population
But than again i find this whole discussion pointless. Why removing local in null could be "interesting" i hardly doubt it will be beneficial to the game and currently i think that risk-reward wise both null and high are doing pretty well. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
that beast
Disconnected. Choke Point
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 22:25:00 -
[176] - Quote
OP quoted me and then asked me a question that had nothing to do with my post... Interesting tactic... In response to how do I counter the whole "warp off" situation, I remind you that EVE takes ~25 years to train all skills to level 5 with max training times. Far longer in reality. EVE is a game of patience, and that's all you need to beat the warp off trick. The question is not "how do you beat it?" the question you *should* be asking, is "when will they make a mistake?". Looking for kills doesn't mean getting them. You can always kill a carebear, just because it isn't straight away, doesn't mean you won't get them in the end. Carebears in null die. End of.
You have numbers showing that null is more dangerous, and I'm somewhat proud to be part of the group making it that little bit more explodey.
But here's a challenge to the OP.
I will swap EVE lives with you. We keep our characters and whatnot, but you come down to where I live and try and make money out of mining in null. I, in return, will come up to highsec, and see how much money I can make out of mining. We'll also compare losses and time spent logged in so we can scale appropriately.
What do you say? Got the b**** to argue your case? Don't hide behind a forum post, show us the actions proving that you're right. Go out, and show us that your point is valid.
I dare you. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Aliastra Gallente Federation
190
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 22:28:00 -
[177] - Quote
which "real carebears"? The station sitting traders? Theyre the only ones that have NO risk
that beast wrote:Carebears in null die. End of.
Thats a straight up lie and you know it cause IF it was true there wouldnt be so many bots CCP has to take a direct hand in it. Theyd be dying. There is no bigger care bear than a mining bot
I HAVE carebeared in null and as long as your alliance has good security, its not only possible but proffitable http://gizmodo.com/5913381/season-your-food-with-salt-from-real-human-tears
you will be harvested |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 22:49:00 -
[178] - Quote
ps3ud0nym wrote:
Oh ya! Totally advantages to Nul sec! The moon redistribution really helped all the alliances down south! How about the Anom changes? Those certainly made nul-sec better! And the changes to jump bridges! That put us WAY a head.
You are an idiot. Nul-sec has been nerfed to the point that there isn't even much point in taking space at all. The CFC is quite a bit different from other organizations in that it has a need for space in order to give their members a place to live and play the game. There is not much of any reason for anyone else to hold space. You don't need sov to get moon goo and are better off if you don't have it. Ratting income has been horribly nerfed as there are only a few systems in each region now that are worth ratting in at all, and to get that you have to spend billions in system upgrades first (never mind having to rat like mad to get the military indexes up). Moon income for anything other than tech is negligible and not worth the cost of running the POS. PI is similarly not worth the amount of effort that you have to put in. You can't run missions as NPC 0.0 is a totally different game than Sov 0.0. Exploration isn't bad, but the rewards are nearly the same as in high-sec for the same thing.
So, lets compaire that to Empire. In Empire I can AFK run level 4 missions and make more than I can ratting in the vast majority of systems in 0.0 (and I don't have to complete with several hundred others over 4 sites). High-sec incursions also provide a safe and extremely lucrative way to make income. If you do exploration your income will be almost the same as in 0.0, but of course you run little to no risk of getting killed. You don't have to worry about logistics and getting equiptment and ships past the nul-sec entrance points, so moving stuff around to trade hubs is very safe. And then there is the massive buffs to high-sec that have happened over the past little while. High-sec incursions are the biggest, the next would be taking away the quality levels of agents. And while you do this you don't have to worry about home defence fleets, sov costs, system upgrades (which have to be moved in a freighter BTW) and having your stuff locked in a station when someone comes and flips the system.
Tell me again how nul-sec has an "advantage" over Empire? Empire is SUPPOSED to be for new players. The fact that the income potential is nearly the same as 0.0 with almost no danger is contrary to what EVE is supposed to be. What makes 0.0 profitable is co-operation and organization. If people make more in 0.0 it is because of that, not because they have an advantage. There needs to be a reason to BE in 0.0 beyond the social aspects. That means 0.0 needs a serious buff, to make it MUCH more attractive. Until then, the situation will remain fairly static. No one is going to attack a stronghold when there is little advantage in taking it in the first place.
Having minor nerfs to game mechanics that shouldn't have existed in the first place isn't in any way "nerfing 0.0 to oblivion.
Go check what is going on with Tech prices. NC./Goon both get something like 3 Trillion isk per month only from tech mining? If that doesn't make all alliance want to pile up and get their piece of the pie in the north, you know something is wrong - namely attacking and taking over 0.0 sov is too hard, takes too long and is ultimately too boring.
The idea that boosting every 0.0 region will somehow make hordes of highsec players run to 0.0 and that is somehow going to create new dynamic alliances that are willing to take new space... is well naive. I would understand if you argued for more economic inequality between the regions, creating more bottlenecks, creating dynamic markets that make different regions boom & bust during different times, but I guess the 99% won't accept that. 99% of the 0.0 bears, that is. |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 22:55:00 -
[179] - Quote
that beast wrote:OP quoted me and then asked me a question that had nothing to do with my post... Interesting tactic... In response to how do I counter the whole "warp off" situation, I remind you that EVE takes ~25 years to train all skills to level 5 with max training times. Far longer in reality. EVE is a game of patience, and that's all you need to beat the warp off trick. The question is not "how do you beat it?" the question you *should* be asking, is "when will they make a mistake?". Looking for kills doesn't mean getting them. You can always kill a carebear, just because it isn't straight away, doesn't mean you won't get them in the end. Carebears in null die. End of.
You have numbers showing that null is more dangerous, and I'm somewhat proud to be part of the group making it that little bit more explodey.
But here's a challenge to the OP.
I will swap EVE lives with you. We keep our characters and whatnot, but you come down to where I live and try and make money out of mining in null. I, in return, will come up to highsec, and see how much money I can make out of mining. We'll also compare losses and time spent logged in so we can scale appropriately.
What do you say? Got the b**** to argue your case? Don't hide behind a forum post, show us the actions proving that you're right. Go out, and show us that your point is valid.
I dare you.
I will contact you with my main, when you are online. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1415
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 22:57:00 -
[180] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Having minor nerfs to game mechanics that shouldn't have existed in the first place isn't in any way "nerfing 0.0 to oblivion.
Go check what is going on with Tech prices. NC./Goon both get something like 3 Trillion isk per month only from tech mining? If that doesn't make all alliance want to pile up and get their piece of the pie in the north, you know something is wrong - namely attacking and taking over 0.0 sov is too hard, takes too long and is ultimately too boring. Ask Pandemic Legion how holding sov is related to holding moons |
|
drdxie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:00:00 -
[181] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:ps3ud0nym wrote:
Oh ya! Totally advantages to Nul sec! The moon redistribution really helped all the alliances down south! How about the Anom changes? Those certainly made nul-sec better! And the changes to jump bridges! That put us WAY a head.
You are an idiot. Nul-sec has been nerfed to the point that there isn't even much point in taking space at all. The CFC is quite a bit different from other organizations in that it has a need for space in order to give their members a place to live and play the game. There is not much of any reason for anyone else to hold space. You don't need sov to get moon goo and are better off if you don't have it. Ratting income has been horribly nerfed as there are only a few systems in each region now that are worth ratting in at all, and to get that you have to spend billions in system upgrades first (never mind having to rat like mad to get the military indexes up). Moon income for anything other than tech is negligible and not worth the cost of running the POS. PI is similarly not worth the amount of effort that you have to put in. You can't run missions as NPC 0.0 is a totally different game than Sov 0.0. Exploration isn't bad, but the rewards are nearly the same as in high-sec for the same thing.
So, lets compaire that to Empire. In Empire I can AFK run level 4 missions and make more than I can ratting in the vast majority of systems in 0.0 (and I don't have to complete with several hundred others over 4 sites). High-sec incursions also provide a safe and extremely lucrative way to make income. If you do exploration your income will be almost the same as in 0.0, but of course you run little to no risk of getting killed. You don't have to worry about logistics and getting equiptment and ships past the nul-sec entrance points, so moving stuff around to trade hubs is very safe. And then there is the massive buffs to high-sec that have happened over the past little while. High-sec incursions are the biggest, the next would be taking away the quality levels of agents. And while you do this you don't have to worry about home defence fleets, sov costs, system upgrades (which have to be moved in a freighter BTW) and having your stuff locked in a station when someone comes and flips the system.
Tell me again how nul-sec has an "advantage" over Empire? Empire is SUPPOSED to be for new players. The fact that the income potential is nearly the same as 0.0 with almost no danger is contrary to what EVE is supposed to be. What makes 0.0 profitable is co-operation and organization. If people make more in 0.0 it is because of that, not because they have an advantage. There needs to be a reason to BE in 0.0 beyond the social aspects. That means 0.0 needs a serious buff, to make it MUCH more attractive. Until then, the situation will remain fairly static. No one is going to attack a stronghold when there is little advantage in taking it in the first place.
Having minor nerfs to game mechanics that shouldn't have existed in the first place isn't in any way "nerfing 0.0 to oblivion. Go check what is going on with Tech prices. NC./Goon both get something like 3 Trillion isk per month only from tech mining? If that doesn't make all alliance want to pile up and get their piece of the pie in the north, you know something is wrong - namely attacking and taking over 0.0 sov is too hard, takes too long and is ultimately too boring. The idea that boosting every 0.0 region will somehow make hordes of highsec players run to 0.0 and that is somehow going to create new dynamic alliances that are willing to take new space... is well naive. I would understand if you argued for more economic inequality between the regions, creating more bottlenecks, creating dynamic markets that make different regions boom & bust during different times, but I guess the 99% won't accept that. 99% of the 0.0 bears, that is.
Of course its hard. CCP is on the goons side. Goons never found space with tech moons, it was given after they got there. In the last 2 days SoCo have had some successful campaigns against CFC despite larger numbers, CCP immediately reacted and nerfed bomb's. Try launching more than 3 at the same time.... I am sure it was an accident, but by the time it is fixed, SoCo would have lost space.
Missile enhancers.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1235061& |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1260
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:06:00 -
[182] - Quote
drdxie wrote:Of course its hard. CCP is on the goons side. Goons never found space with tech moons, it was given after they got there. In the last 2 days SoCo have had some successful campaigns against CFC despite larger numbers, CCP immediately reacted and nerfed bomb's. Try launching more than 3 at the same time.... I am sure it was an accident, but by the time it is fixed, SoCo would have lost space.
man oh man you must really think that bombs were "nerfed" a rogue goon |
Eternus8lux8lucis
New Eden Regimental Marines Rebel Alliance of New Eden
107
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:07:00 -
[183] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:
Second Problem: Defensive 0.0 mechanics.
Someone like NC. has like 100 tech moons. That is only tech moons. To assault them you need a mega blob. Now once you have that megablob, all those cynojammers/sov mechanics/TCU/station/whatever destroy the desire of the attacking side. The only exceptions, are renter alliances falling out of grace with their masters. Even if you win vs a fail alliance, you end up with them being able to evacuate vast majority of their assets.
Solution: Drastically nerf every single defensive feature, one single reinforce timer for every single item in the system/constellation. Once a station changes hands, every single item in the station is is irreversably purged.
Third Problem: Supercaps.
Too many supercaps, too few die. This is a problem.
Solution: Make all supercaps globally view able on galaxy map, make all supercaps warpable beacons on overview, no supercapital will disappear in space when logged off(you have to use pos), start banning supercapital account sharing.
Fourth Problem: Jump Bridges and Jump Freighters.
These make alliance logistics too easy.
Solution: Jump Freighters have a cooldown period of 5h, once they unload their cargo - no jumps until the timer is up. Jump Bridges should not allow to carry non-ammo cargo(like trying to put a Iteron V full of trit into a carrier.)
Lots of highsec players are getting tired of this constant goon/[enter alliance here] spam: "NERF HIGHSEC, RISK VS REWARD." Time to look at the real carebears - the 0.0 alliances - and start adding some risk to their game. Once all these changes have been made, we can have a serious discussion on lvl4/hulks in highsec.
One reinforce timer on your biggest asset in a system all other assets add ehp or other strategic value to that one asset. This would mean only one thing needs to be attacked or defended and if it goes down it makes everything else easier to attack or harder to defend giving more onus on the value of the higher end assets.
Titans yes, supers no. Titans are like jump bridges and cynos and therefore should be on the map as with cynos even if not logged in. This increases risk to deploying or using titans as they can be seen and then attacked.
Titans and supers should have upkeep costs and "maintenance" due to breakage. Randomly a set value over a random time for a double variable random scale at ANYTIME during a day. Big ships, they break, need to be repaired just as bombers/aircraft or weaponry in war often have to turn back due to maintenance issues. Logistically it creates a mess. This is a good thing imo.
To repair you must buy or build a "gantry" simillar to the POCO gantry that will be so large that it will only fit into freighters or JFs, it must be anchored, outside of a POS shields at a certain distance, in space beside the super and will be visible like any other beacon/gantry to all of local as a warpable object. Like the gantry Capital components must be dropped in and the repair takes X amount of time thereafter. Breakage appears, even while in use, as total heat damage on modules as well as shields, armor or structure hps, cap/shield recharge rates or total cap amounts as well as jump drive LY distance travel or fuel requirements. Each breakage corresponds to its subsequent Capital component item to be used in the repair. Much like Nanite paste and the amounts used are relative to the damage incurred, same with repair times.
Breakage while in use in fleets, or waiting around, etc. Can change the field of battle as a random variable due to when it can occur. This means that natural mechanical failure rates must be taken into account for a super/titan fleet as they are in RL for all military assets deployed or even in reserve. You may HAVE 10 supers to field but only 8 may be able to actually fight due to 2 having mechanical failures of some kind. And as this will affect both attackers and defenders its an added variable to the tactical considerations. It also creates more usage and cost for supers and titans to holders of such meaning they again can become alliance or large corp assets rather than individual assets simply due to increased maintenance costs. This means that each super or titan can incur its own costs yet again perhaps in a year or two of normal operations, or months? again depending on the balancing of the decay rates of thee large ships due to the rigors of being constantly out in space at all times. This means that if someone doesnt log in or use a super its not necessarily worth HAVING a super as you have to pay for it or when you want to use it you have to spend billions to fix it again. Can you say bye bye ratting super botters? Your super is now vulnerable to anyone cuz it broke and itll take you at LEAST several hours to fix it and its just sitting there, cant defend it? Kiss it bye bye.
JF cooldown? That Ill have to say HELL NO!! It takes long enough to jump **** around in it if your anywhere deep in null from high sec. Forcing a JF pilot to wait literally 10 hours for a 2 jump, about avg into null, is ridiculous for logistics and turns whats already an annoyance into a full days affairs. So really thats dumb. Anyone that has the time to spend an entire day sure, but the vast majority of Eve doesnt have that time. And say your making more than one trip. Now suddenly if your forced to make 3 cyno jumps thats 15 hours ONE way!! Say you got 3 or even 4 trips worth of stuff? Thats literally a week. I would cease all null sec activities if this ever was even considered and sell my jf and literally never look back. Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1260
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:08:00 -
[184] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:as your alliance has good security, its not only possible but proffitable
nerf teamwork!!! a rogue goon |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:10:00 -
[185] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:as your alliance has good security, its not only possible but proffitable nerf teamwork!!!
Nerf local, so that it actually requires teamwork?
Maybe complete removal is a overkill.
But 1 min delay and not showing enemy names+numbers would be a decent start. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1260
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:13:00 -
[186] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:as your alliance has good security, its not only possible but proffitable nerf teamwork!!! Nerf local, so that it actually requires teamwork? Maybe complete removal is a overkill. But 1 min delay and not showing enemy names+numbers would be a decent start.
i do love it when the guy who posts a thread about wanting a special hisec supercarrier so that he doesn't have to set foot into ~lawless~ space has to give his input on how the lawless space should work, based on his extensive experience in the lawless space a rogue goon |
TotalCareBear
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:15:00 -
[187] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:as your alliance has good security, its not only possible but proffitable nerf teamwork!!! Nerf local, so that it actually requires teamwork? Maybe complete removal is a overkill. But 1 min delay and not showing enemy names+numbers would be a decent start. i do love it when the guy who posts a thread about wanting a special hisec supercarrier so that he doesn't have to set foot into ~lawless~ space has to give his input on how the lawless space should work, based on his extensive experience in the lawless space
I said in that topic that I already have a carrier and i actively use it(for example an officer spawn). You think I am using that in highsec? I never said anything about highsec supercarrier. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1260
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:21:00 -
[188] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:I said in that topic that I already have a carrier and i actively use it(for example officer spawn). You think I am using that in highsec? I never said anything about highsec supercarrier.
so wait you post a thread about "nullbears" when you literally want a special dockable supercarrier for ratting?
I've literally never seen an officer spawn because literally the only PvE I do involves buying escalation/complex bookmarks from newbies and running them for a 50% split, and I do maybe 2-3 in a given month before having enough of watching grey lines turn red
yet you're the one calling everyone ~nullbears~ a rogue goon |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1260
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:25:00 -
[189] - Quote
I mean seriously nullsec has enough of an activity issue as it is and people talk about removing local because nullsec is Too Easy (or too hard for you because you can't get easy kills on people who are actually awake and observant)
let's face it removing local would be the final nail in the coffin for any hope of seeing nullsec get actual activity outside of fleets a rogue goon |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1390
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:25:00 -
[190] - Quote
TotalCareBear wrote:Having minor nerfs to game mechanics that shouldn't have existed in the first place isn't in any way "nerfing 0.0 to oblivion. But it is. Null, esp. sov space is not hisec. In terms of how will it affect people who lived there. In hisec, you have CONCORD to provide a safety net that indirectly affects how 'safe' living in hisec is. You remove CONCORD, you'll remove that safety net. In nullsec, that safety net is provided by a collective effort from people and it is directly attached to local channel.
Let's say a hypothetical scenario, local is gone in nullsec space. What do you think would happen? most people would probably stop doing pve stuff in null and move their iskmaking alts to a safer place, some would probably switch to nullified T3s and do less risky stuff, some minority would probably gamble their ships or just use the cheapest thing they can fly and continue.
In the end, less people in nullsec. Far less incentives to invade other alliances space other than moon goos, even when this is the main goal for conflict; alliances, big and small would have a hard time keeping morale high since there are little 'rewards' to give to their members so they can stick around in null. That's from the sov owners perspective (in which you called "nullbears"), how about the hunters perspective? It's going to be harder to find targets, cause, well, no one's around, it's going to be harder to skim down pipes and quickly asess what is in this system and move on to the next, thus, less motivation to roam around and hunt stuff. If this is not nerfing 0.0 to oblivion, I don't know what is.
TotalCareBear wrote: Go check what is going on with Tech prices. NC./Goon both get something like 3 Trillion isk per month only from tech mining? If that doesn't make all alliance want to pile up and get their piece of the pie in the north, you know something is wrong - namely attacking and taking over 0.0 sov is too hard, takes too long and is ultimately too boring.
First, you got your numbers wrong. Goons balance sheet are open to public, do your research first. Second, "attacking north" have been done before, and it being boring is not one of the cause of the result. Don't like spaceships sandbox? then this is not the game for you. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
|
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1390
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:32:00 -
[191] - Quote
drdxie wrote:Of course its hard. CCP is on the goons side. Goons never found space with tech moons, it was given after they got there. In the last 2 days SoCo have had some successful campaigns against CFC despite larger numbers, CCP immediately reacted and nerfed bomb's. Try launching more than 3 at the same time.... I am sure it was an accident, but by the time it is fixed, SoCo would have lost space.
Ah, finally, I've been wondering why no one's brought this up already. You have no idea how bombs even work, do you?
Don't like spaceships sandbox? then this is not the game for you. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1156
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:35:00 -
[192] - Quote
Sarah Schneider wrote:drdxie wrote:Of course its hard. CCP is on the goons side. Goons never found space with tech moons, it was given after they got there. In the last 2 days SoCo have had some successful campaigns against CFC despite larger numbers, CCP immediately reacted and nerfed bomb's. Try launching more than 3 at the same time.... I am sure it was an accident, but by the time it is fixed, SoCo would have lost space.
Ah, finally, I've been wondering why no one's brought this up already. You have no idea how bombs even work, do you? It seems now bombs of the same type blow themselves up.
CCP said they'll fix it on monday. Hurry up, I want to bomb the 319 undock. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
1390
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 23:38:00 -
[193] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Sarah Schneider wrote:drdxie wrote:Of course its hard. CCP is on the goons side. Goons never found space with tech moons, it was given after they got there. In the last 2 days SoCo have had some successful campaigns against CFC despite larger numbers, CCP immediately reacted and nerfed bomb's. Try launching more than 3 at the same time.... I am sure it was an accident, but by the time it is fixed, SoCo would have lost space.
Ah, finally, I've been wondering why no one's brought this up already. You have no idea how bombs even work, do you? It seems now bombs of the same type blow themselves up. CCP said they'll fix it on monday. Hurry up, I want to bomb the 319 undock. Yep. Bombing squads are on vacation til Monday it seems Don't like spaceships sandbox? then this is not the game for you. "I think weGÇÖre just getting closer and closer to a place where the people we lose are people that itGÇÖs okay to lose." -Kristoffer Touborg, Eve lead designer |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
166
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 00:08:00 -
[194] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:I mean seriously nullsec has enough of an activity issue as it is and people talk about removing local because nullsec is Too Easy (or too hard for you because you can't get easy kills on people who are actually awake and observant)
let's face it removing local would be the final nail in the coffin for any hope of seeing nullsec get actual activity outside of fleets
literally anybody who has actually lived in nullsec without depending on hisec PvE alts knows this I would go back to null if local was removed. Of course, as always, I have been for any changes to make null more vibrant, like industry for one. But there will always be players who have grown to rely on local for every aspect of how they play the game, the thought of it being removed sends them directly into a fetal position crying out for mommy.
No amount of convincing or mechanical changes will make them embrace the removal of local. These players are simply cowards. |
Russell Casey
Goldbug Inc.
170
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 04:42:00 -
[195] - Quote
Nerf highsec.
Remove local from nullsec.
There, now they both suck to pve in. EVE is balanced. |
ReiAnn
Nova-Tek
18
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 05:34:00 -
[196] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:another NPC corp poster regales us with his well-informed and unbiased insights on nullsec
99% of people in EVE use NPC corps as shields in game. Why should the forums be any different? |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 06:41:00 -
[197] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:
How many times, do I have to reply to these...
Local requires no collective effort whatsoever. Really, this keeps repeating... What part of "Someone in local, Warp to SS/POS/Station" is hard, what part of it requires collective effort? "Collective intel or gangs" have really minor effect on alliance players, as local still is the best line of defense vs being ganked when carebearing in 0.0.
And game mechanic changes have favored 0.0 alliances. You can't possibly argue against changes putting them at disfavor, given that they have had plenty of boosts.
Yet I still kill people trying to ship goods and mine in 0.0
That is because stupid is as stupid does. Highsec, null sec makes no diffrence on a person ability to be stupid. |
The Protato
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
42
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 10:06:00 -
[198] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:The Protato wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:reinforce their POS, reinforce their station, bring a spy into one of their corps, camp a gate Get blobbed bring a fleet
Sorry, I thought you were talking about how easy it was to PVP in nullsec? And what if we don't have a fleet big enough to drop 500 caps and supercaps on the supercaps that've been dropped on us? |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
75
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 10:23:00 -
[199] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:TotalCareBear wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:as your alliance has good security, its not only possible but proffitable nerf teamwork!!! Nerf local, so that it actually requires teamwork? Maybe complete removal is a overkill. But 1 min delay and not showing enemy names+numbers would be a decent start. i do love it when the guy who posts a thread about wanting a special hisec supercarrier so that he doesn't have to set foot into ~lawless~ space has to give his input on how the lawless space should work, based on his extensive experience in the lawless space
You know mate your right, its bloody terrible, when someone from a different sec zone starts telling you how it should work in yours........, I feel for you.....
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Spectre80
The Collective Northern Associates.
74
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 10:47:00 -
[200] - Quote
goons are real carebears of eve that is a fact. also they are schoolyard bullies, the annoying guy who you know at work who tries to rile you up, and a rude guy in bar who picks a fight with you for no reason. that is what goons are. |
|
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
153
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 10:49:00 -
[201] - Quote
Sarah Schneider wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Sarah Schneider wrote:drdxie wrote:Of course its hard. CCP is on the goons side. Goons never found space with tech moons, it was given after they got there. In the last 2 days SoCo have had some successful campaigns against CFC despite larger numbers, CCP immediately reacted and nerfed bomb's. Try launching more than 3 at the same time.... I am sure it was an accident, but by the time it is fixed, SoCo would have lost space.
Ah, finally, I've been wondering why no one's brought this up already. You have no idea how bombs even work, do you? It seems now bombs of the same type blow themselves up. CCP said they'll fix it on monday. Hurry up, I want to bomb the 319 undock. Yep. Bombing squads are on vacation til Monday it seems
Yeah, damnit. |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
67
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 15:55:00 -
[202] - Quote
ps3ud0nym wrote: You are an idiot. Nul-sec has been nerfed to the point that there isn't even much point in taking space at all. The CFC is quite a bit different from other organizations in that it has a need for space in order to give their members a place to live and play the game. There is not much of any reason for anyone else to hold space. You don't need sov to get moon goo and are better off if you don't have it. Ratting income has been horribly nerfed as there are only a few systems in each region now that are worth ratting in at all, and to get that you have to spend billions in system upgrades first (never mind having to rat like mad to get the military indexes up). Moon income for anything other than tech is negligible and not worth the cost of running the POS. PI is similarly not worth the amount of effort that you have to put in. You can't run missions as NPC 0.0 is a totally different game than Sov 0.0. Exploration isn't bad, but the rewards are nearly the same as in high-sec for the same thing.
So, lets compaire that to Empire. In Empire I can AFK run level 4 missions and make more than I can ratting in the vast majority of systems in 0.0 (and I don't have to complete with several hundred others over 4 sites). High-sec incursions also provide a safe and extremely lucrative way to make income. If you do exploration your income will be almost the same as in 0.0, but of course you run little to no risk of getting killed. You don't have to worry about logistics and getting equiptment and ships past the nul-sec entrance points, so moving stuff around to trade hubs is very safe. And then there is the massive buffs to high-sec that have happened over the past little while. High-sec incursions are the biggest, the next would be taking away the quality levels of agents. And while you do this you don't have to worry about home defence fleets, sov costs, system upgrades (which have to be moved in a freighter BTW) and having your stuff locked in a station when someone comes and flips the system.
Tell me again how nul-sec has an "advantage" over Empire? Empire is SUPPOSED to be for new players. The fact that the income potential is nearly the same as 0.0 with almost no danger is contrary to what EVE is supposed to be. What makes 0.0 profitable is co-operation and organization. If people make more in 0.0 it is because of that, not because they have an advantage. There needs to be a reason to BE in 0.0 beyond the social aspects. That means 0.0 needs a serious buff, to make it MUCH more attractive. Until then, the situation will remain fairly static. No one is going to attack a stronghold when there is little advantage in taking it in the first place.
1) If nulsec is not worth taking, why is there such a huge fight out there right now? After all, it's not worth throwing assets at just to have them destroyed for nothing.
2) How do you AFK run a mission? Because everytime I got up from my computer and made a sandwich, my modules didn't toggle themselves on once what they were shooting at was destroyed. My ship just did lazy orbits around a designated object and didn't shoot anything without my input. Oh wait, you must be talking about botting. Silly me.
3) The income potential is the same for nulsec as it is for hisec? Only two possibilities...you're doing it wrong. Or you are popping one BS rat every fifteen minutes. Ok, I guess that means you are just doing it wrong.
Most of us don't huff spray paint, try not to feed us a big bowl of frosted frack-me-overs.
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:If you think that nullsec is safer than highsec you're completely ignoring the actual statistics that prove how blatantly wrong you are. Population vs Kills, Jan 2012. There's probably a spike in Null due to the current events in Delve, but it seems high-sec is incredably safe compared to null and low. [source]I mostly do hauling, but a few nights ago I decided to 'hang out' with a friend who mines. For three hours, all she did was shoot at rocks and then bring them to the station. There were a ton of people out mining but not a peep in local about pirates or gankers. Yet she easily made more money than I do when I haul stuff through high and low sec. Perhaps null-sec miners do their job in relative safety, but high sec miners appear to do the same.
B-b-b-b-but the map says otherwise....
Oh wait...January. That's when people did things differently then. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
168
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Posted - 2012.07.07 17:14:00 -
[203] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:It takes long enough to jump **** around in it if your anywhere deep in null from high sec. This guy for real? |
Russell Casey
Goldbug Inc.
170
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Posted - 2012.07.07 18:18:00 -
[204] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Wormholes are much more dangerous than 0.0 Then why do they have the least amount of losses per player then every other region except for highsec?
Having to probe your way through 4 or 5 wormholes systems without a dedicated probing ship/alt just sucks, especially when it's a wormhole system with 10+ anomalies scattered all over the place. Then they might all be empty. It's easier just to go out and roam through a dozen systems in low/null and see what happens.
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Breezly Brewin
Vril Metaphysics Society
30
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Posted - 2012.07.07 18:58:00 -
[205] - Quote
i'm primarily a hisec miner and from my current isk/m3 comparisons on yield charts the risk that comes with null sec isn't worth it. arkonor is only about 30% more isk/m3 than hisec ores and b and c ores are only marginally higher. h ores are only slightly higher than veld and scordite. so from a hisec miner perspective the nullsec ores just arent worth the added risk when i so easily become space rich in hisec. i'm not going to pretend to know how safe sov space is but i know it can't be safer than hisec. nullsec needs the reward to outweigh the hisec lack of risk. i thought about mining nullsec until i looked at m3 prices
TLDR: nullsec isk isn't worth the nullsec risk. |
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
62
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Posted - 2012.07.07 19:28:00 -
[206] - Quote
Breezly Brewin wrote:i'm primarily a hisec miner and from my current isk/m3 comparisons on yield charts the risk that comes with null sec isn't worth it. arkonor is only about 30% more isk/m3 than hisec ores and b and c ores are only marginally higher. h ores are only slightly higher than veld and scordite. so from a hisec miner perspective the nullsec ores just arent worth the added risk when i so easily become space rich in hisec. i'm not going to pretend to know how safe sov space is but i know it can't be safer than hisec. nullsec needs the reward to outweigh the hisec lack of risk. i thought about mining nullsec until i looked at m3 prices TLDR: nullsec isk isn't worth the nullsec risk.
THEY made hi sec minerals rise to the current values.
Here's the process:
1) Cry a river against hi sec players long enough, because they are so horrible and should be gased.
2) Organize abundant "interdictions".
3) Setup Hulkageddon.
4) Make it permanent.
5) Keep posting about how many trillions in exhumers have been killed this month.
6) SURPRISE! Hi sec prices rise to double / triple of their value.
7) Cry another river because hi sec minerals are too high value.
You made your bed, lie in it. |
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
43
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Posted - 2012.07.08 00:41:00 -
[207] - Quote
His Name Says It all...
Someone, who smackstalks highsec players, yet wants the "sandbox" to be sized to their needs and doing that while game mechanics prevent risk in 0.0.[/quote]
Generalization coming;
I believe in my modest experience within the forums as a long time reader and a somewhat recently devoted poster, that Carebears are usually deriding some game mechanic that is perfectly reasonable in a "space simulation" while Nullsec pilots are just trying to hold on to what they have banded together and worked hard for. To use a modern analogy: Carebear pilots equate to the 99%'era who think it unfair that wealth and power are seemingly held by a few. Completely disregarding the efforts of those who hold it and blind to the fact that anyone is capable of doing it with a sh*t ton of work. Basically wanting everything handed to them with little to no effort. Which in turn would make the Null sec guys the 1%'ers who had vision and leveraged the environment in which they dwelled to build great things thus prospering and bringing in as many with them as possible in order to create a better life. Pulling everyone around them up as well.
Interesting how that works.
vr East IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!" |
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