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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.18 14:41:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 18/05/2010 14:41:40 no, what I'm trying to say is there would be no effective counter for at least half brained gatecampers. Campers should not have the privilege of being allowed to be a pain in the ass, so hotdropping them is all fine, they're waiting for weak puppies to wtfpwn, so why should be a capital hotdrop on them not fair, it just reverses their own intentions.
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killer chick
Devious Decorum
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Posted - 2010.05.19 01:14:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Sha4d13
Notably, the OP has, I believe, been baiting and hotdropping of late- and got thoroughly counter hotdropped and shot to bits, the other night.
OP's alliance + russians were baiting in system with multiple carriers. Devious Decorum puts 2 carriers and a few BS off station. OP's alliance moves 3 carriers to engage and they put up multiple cynos. Russians and Roughnecks support fleet arrive with dreads. ADHD bring in more carriers followed by support fleet. Battle has escalated to its fullest. Then moms + more carriers enter the field for wtfpwnage. Counter drop successful.
i think this example is the most effective ways of dealing with a hot drop. http://adhd.evekb.co.uk/?a=kill_related&kll_id=1429249
Originally by: Muad' Dib
He made the thread 1.5 months ago, well before he tangled with CH and ADHD. Maybe it is in a way a whining motivated OP, but that doesn't mean that all of the sudden it has no value just because he lost a ship.
OP made this thread because Roughnecks alliance can't stop the **** train that DVDC brought to their "home" system. |
Hazel Starr
Krypteia Brotherhood
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Posted - 2010.05.19 13:04:00 -
[153]
Thank you Killer Chick for once again providing a fine illustration of the problem in operation.
However try to seperate your ego from the discussion - this thread wasn't started about you but about an issue with low-sec play which has an inhibiting effect on the game.
The huge flexibility that a responding fleet has in bringing support from all over EVE low-sec straight into an ongoing battle provides a huge disincentive for less powerful forces to engage in overt combat.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.19 13:11:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Hazel Starr
The huge flexibility that a responding fleet has in bringing support from all over EVE low-sec straight into an ongoing battle provides a huge disincentive for less powerful forces to engage in overt combat.
how is it limited to low-sec only? Yes, less powerful forces bite the dust more frequently, but whats wrong with that? Its all over eve that way and even beyond eve IRL.
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tiviirulez
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Posted - 2010.05.19 15:02:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Hazel Starr
The huge flexibility that a responding fleet has in bringing support from all over EVE low-sec straight into an ongoing battle provides a huge disincentive for less powerful forces to engage in overt combat.
Yes, less powerful forces bite the dust more frequently, but whats wrong with that? Its all over eve that way and even beyond eve IRL.
No it is not. Discussion was about can you beam a batallion of special forces into a suburb street brawl by pushing a button on your mobile irl?
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.05.19 15:40:00 -
[156]
Originally by: killer chick ...i think this example is the most effective ways of dealing with a hot drop. http://adhd.evekb.co.uk/?a=kill_related&kll_id=1429249
Very impressive but as Hazel said, you are actually proving the point. The normal low-sec citizenry doesn't have Titan's ready to bridge or MoM's, Dreads and Carriers idling everywhere .. the entire "just counter hot-drop" argument falls flat for the vast majority of us.
A 20-50km location shift from a cyno would have had zero effect on the outcome of a gank such as the one you linked nor will it have any noticeable effect when dropping in on a pirate camp that has been properly aggressed .. but it will severely hamper/discourage the random drops on anything cruiser sized and up.
Personally I think the best way is to scale fuel consumption with sec. status of system jumped to. Would make it a costly affair to drop anything and everything and provide more traffic, as systems used as pit-stops would require large quantities of replacement fuel brought in when null decides to wave their spaghetti arms around on the other side of the cluster (provides intercept points to avert assaults as well). Let low-sec be the battleground where conventional's are the standard and let null keep their super-/capital blobs to themselves!
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.19 16:59:00 -
[157]
Originally by: tiviirulez Discussion was about can you beam a batallion of special forces into a suburb street brawl by pushing a button on your mobile irl?
Go away with RL comparisons, they mostly suck. My IRL analogy was rather meant at a more abstract level, that larger blobs bash smaller blobs in EVE as IRL also!
I know no reason why you should not be able to beam your forces to any random spot since there is jump drive tech available for that.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.19 18:44:00 -
[158]
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 19/05/2010 18:51:09
Originally by: killer chick
Originally by: Sha4d13
Notably, the OP has, I believe, been baiting and hotdropping of late- and got thoroughly counter hotdropped and shot to bits, the other night.
OP's alliance + russians were baiting in system with multiple carriers. Devious Decorum puts 2 carriers and a few BS off station. OP's alliance moves 3 carriers to engage and they put up multiple cynos. Russians and Roughnecks support fleet arrive with dreads. ADHD bring in more carriers followed by support fleet. Battle has escalated to its fullest. Then moms + more carriers enter the field for wtfpwnage. Counter drop successful.
i think this example is the most effective ways of dealing with a hot drop. http://adhd.evekb.co.uk/?a=kill_related&kll_id=1429249
Originally by: Muad' Dib
He made the thread 1.5 months ago, well before he tangled with CH and ADHD. Maybe it is in a way a whining motivated OP, but that doesn't mean that all of the sudden it has no value just because he lost a ship.
OP made this thread because Roughnecks alliance can't stop the **** train that DVDC brought to their "home" system.
OP thread started :
Quote: Posted - 2010.04.02 02:00:00
Battle you linked :
Quote: Battle in Aeschee (Essence), 16-05-2010 (20:11 - 21:59)
So what, now the OP can travel back in time ?
I'll give you a hint as to where you are placed in this NAPfest. :) ADHD was started by Invicta/ATHI, while Invicta might have done some soul-searching that culminated in the leaving of Tomski/danneh, and Dejah moving the corp into CH, ADHD is still part of Invicta's work - they still have CH alt corps in it. You are speaking for Invicta/Athi right now and you are doing it very badly.
PS: I see they haven't kicked undisireable from Rough Necks yet. :)
Originally by: Sha4d13 Ooohhh get her.
Now- if you read carefully (there are people who can teach you such skills if you find that hard), I didn't suggest that the OP was in response to the recent incident. The point, of course, is that he too has found that hotdropping is a decent tactic, and that there is an effective counter...
I'm intrigued at your bizarre suggestion that I have not set out my opinion on the subject. A suggestion which is plainly comlpete bobbins.
As for posting with my main- what difference would it make to the opinion? Or to its validity? I've been playing since 2005, have been in many alliances, and have always made it a policy not to mix my views, with the views of my alliance (whichever it may be at the time) because it can cause unecessary friction. Thats a reasonable and appropriate position to take and in no way impacts upon or damages the validity of my comments. Its irrelevant to the point in issue. Your choosing to attack it clearly stems from your inability to logically challenge what I have said.
Changing the subject and attacking something irrelevant is a cheap strategy, employed primarily by the intellectually deficient.
I'd reply to your post, but i really can't. Your rationalizing is perfect in describing why alt posts should be ignored in a thread, you beat me to it. :( PS: English is not so good, so sorry for that - it's not my 1st language, as is probably for you - judging by your grammar problems. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market ! |
Muad' Dib
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.19 19:27:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: tiviirulez Discussion was about can you beam a batallion of special forces into a suburb street brawl by pushing a button on your mobile irl?
Go away with RL comparisons, they mostly suck. My IRL analogy was rather meant at a more abstract level, that larger blobs bash smaller blobs in EVE as IRL also!
I know no reason why you should not be able to beam your forces to any random spot since there is jump drive tech available for that.
I dont't think he realized how stupid his RL comparison really is. :) --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market ! |
JASON W0RTHING
Nomad LLP Wayfarer Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2010.05.19 22:38:00 -
[160]
Originally by: tiviirulez
No it is not. Discussion was about can you beam a batallion of special forces into a suburb street brawl by pushing a button on your mobile irl?
Yes.
Originally by: CCP Shadow What is thy bidd -- Wait. This thread, I have an irresistible urge to lock it for "being related to neither crime nor punishment."
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.05.19 23:08:00 -
[161]
Originally by: JASON W0RTHING
Originally by: tiviirulez
No it is not. Discussion was about can you beam a batallion of special forces into a suburb street brawl by pushing a button on your mobile irl?
Yes.
The analogy would be more accurate if instead of battalion you beamed down a couple aircraft carriers to the street fight.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.19 23:31:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Yes.
The analogy would be more accurate if instead of battalion you beamed down a couple aircraft carriers to the street fight.
yes, because pushing navy cruisers and battleships through streets is more realistic.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.05.20 00:06:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Ephemeron
Yes.
The analogy would be more accurate if instead of battalion you beamed down a couple aircraft carriers to the street fight.
yes, because pushing navy cruisers and battleships through streets is more realistic. Okay lets say a couple rednecks are fishing at a lake and start fighting over a tangled fishing line. Then one of them pressed a button and 2 fighter carriers drop into the lake
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Dlardrageth
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.20 06:10:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Dlardrageth on 20/05/2010 06:10:26
Originally by: Ephemeron Okay lets say a couple rednecks are fishing at a lake and start fighting over a tangled fishing line. Then one of them pressed a button and 2 fighter carriers drop into the lake
You must know some redneck billionaires in RL then.
Ofc, if hotdrops in low-sec are such a nuisance and drama factor, lobbying instead for a system cyno jammer (POS module) that works in low-sec might be too easy a solution...
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Sha4d13
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.20 09:57:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Very impressive but as Hazel said, you are actually proving the point. The normal low-sec citizenry doesn't have Titan's ready to bridge or MoM's, Dreads and Carriers idling everywhere .. the entire "just counter hot-drop" argument falls flat for the vast majority of us.
The normal low-sec pirate gank victim doesn't have the backup or the scouting network to catch / retaliate / defend himself against a well run pirate gate camp either.
Do you see?
These people want to gank without risk.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.20 10:21:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 20/05/2010 10:27:26
Basically, (capital) hotdrops do the same thing to lowsec campers, what campers do to travelers, passing through lowsec. Simple thing. A bigger fish eats the smaller one -> all fine with this.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.05.20 11:37:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 20/05/2010 11:40:30
Originally by: Dlardrageth Ofc, if hotdrops in low-sec are such a nuisance and drama factor, lobbying instead for a system cyno jammer (POS module) that works in low-sec might be too easy a solution...
Would disrupt cross-cluster traffic to no end and I doubt the Empires would stand for it. The one thing that keeps jammers tolerable in null is availability of bridges, so you would need those as well .. not a sound plan
Originally by: Sha4d13 These people want to gank without risk.
And what of those who Titan bridge and drop MoMs/Carriers onto anything that moves within drop range? How is that nooblet PvP any better than the lame campers? At least the campers are visible and lit up like a red light district for all to see ..
Originally by: Robert Caldera Basically, (capital) hotdrops do the same thing to lowsec campers, what campers do to travelers, passing through lowsec. Simple thing. A bigger fish eats the smaller one -> all fine with this.
Fish analogies, this thread is getting weirder and weirder But OK I'll play: Where are the coral reefs and plants for the small fish to use as cover against the big fish?
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.20 12:33:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
But OK I'll play: Where are the coral reefs and plants for the small fish to use as cover against the big fish?
mh.. nowhere?? You should accept the omnipresent possibility of a bigger fish. Except for station and POS bubbles. Even in high sec you can be overwhelmed by a larger blob of people since the numbers arent limited in any manner.
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irion felpamy
Minmatar HellJumpers Corp Indecisive Certainty
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Posted - 2010.05.20 13:23:00 -
[169]
I think we should add a high slot module to counter cynos.
Basicly you fit them to your high slots and activate them on the ship that has activated a cyno, this new module reduced the current HP of the target ship incrementaly untill it is disabled or the ship is destroyed. Mutiple modules would increase the speed at which the cyno ships HP is reduced. Once the ship is destroyed the cyno disappears
Maybe we could add multiple different types with different ranges and give them bonuses when fitted to certain ships.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.05.20 13:26:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 20/05/2010 13:26:41
Originally by: irion felpamy I think we should add a high slot module to counter cynos.
Basicly you fit them to your high slots and activate them on the ship that has activated a cyno, this new module reduced the current HP of the target ship incrementaly untill it is disabled or the ship is destroyed. Mutiple modules would increase the speed at which the cyno ships HP is reduced. Once the ship is destroyed the cyno disappears
Maybe we could add multiple different types with different ranges and give them bonuses when fitted to certain ships.
you still didnt provide viable reasons for a cyno nerf.
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AFK Cloaker
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.20 13:30:00 -
[171]
Originally by: irion felpamy I think we should add a high slot module to counter cynos.
Basicly you fit them to your high slots and activate them on the ship that has activated a cyno, this new module reduced the current HP of the target ship incrementaly untill it is disabled or the ship is destroyed. Mutiple modules would increase the speed at which the cyno ships HP is reduced. Once the ship is destroyed the cyno disappears
Maybe we could add multiple different types with different ranges and give them bonuses when fitted to certain ships.
+1 interwebz for you sir. |
Sir Fourhead
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.05.20 13:51:00 -
[172]
Originally by: irion felpamy I think we should add a high slot module to counter cynos.
Basicly you fit them to your high slots and activate them on the ship that has activated a cyno, this new module reduced the current HP of the target ship incrementaly untill it is disabled or the ship is destroyed. Mutiple modules would increase the speed at which the cyno ships HP is reduced. Once the ship is destroyed the cyno disappears
Maybe we could add multiple different types with different ranges and give them bonuses when fitted to certain ships.
Best post. Please pardon the prissy overtones that will be found throughout this letter, but the reservoir from which CCP draws its lickspittles is primarily the masses of revolting enemies of the people. |
tiviirulez
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Posted - 2010.05.20 13:55:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: tiviirulez Discussion was about can you beam a batallion of special forces into a suburb street brawl by pushing a button on your mobile irl?
Go away with RL comparisons, they mostly suck. My IRL analogy was rather meant at a more abstract level, that larger blobs bash smaller blobs in EVE as IRL also!
I know no reason why you should not be able to beam your forces to any random spot since there is jump drive tech available for that.
Why do you come up with rl comparisons then? bigger fish smaller fish? At "a more abstract" level your statement has no ground at all. What is force? Is it always correlated to size or numbers? Why does paper beat scissors? Vietnam?
The cynofield is supposed to be a beacon to move up to over 2 million tons over distances of several lightyears (!) with what accuracy? 15km? The whole thing fits almost on a shuttle and works instantly?
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irion felpamy
Minmatar HellJumpers Corp Indecisive Certainty
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Posted - 2010.05.20 13:58:00 -
[174]
Originally by: tiviirulez
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: tiviirulez Discussion was about can you beam a batallion of special forces into a suburb street brawl by pushing a button on your mobile irl?
Go away with RL comparisons, they mostly suck. My IRL analogy was rather meant at a more abstract level, that larger blobs bash smaller blobs in EVE as IRL also!
I know no reason why you should not be able to beam your forces to any random spot since there is jump drive tech available for that.
Why do you come up with rl comparisons then? bigger fish smaller fish? At "a more abstract" level your statement has no ground at all. What is force? Is it always correlated to size or numbers? Why does paper beat scissors? Vietnam?
The cynofield is supposed to be a beacon to move up to over 2 million tons over distances of several lightyears (!) with what accuracy? 15km? The whole thing fits almost on a shuttle and works instantly?
If by almost you mean appart from no highslot or fittings and insufficent cargo space to actually fuel it then sure.
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Sir Fourhead
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.05.20 14:01:00 -
[175]
Originally by: tiviirulez The cynofield is supposed to be a beacon to move up to over 2 million tons over distances of several lightyears (!) with what accuracy? 15km? The whole thing fits almost on a shuttle and works instantly?
spoilers: the cyno doesn't do any part of the moving, it just produces a target for jump drives to lock onto Please pardon the prissy overtones that will be found throughout this letter, but the reservoir from which CCP draws its lickspittles is primarily the masses of revolting enemies of the people. |
tiviirulez
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Posted - 2010.05.20 14:43:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Sir Fourhead
Originally by: tiviirulez The cynofield is supposed to be a beacon to move up to over 2 million tons over distances of several lightyears (!) with what accuracy? 15km? The whole thing fits almost on a shuttle and works instantly?
spoilers: the cyno doesn't do any part of the moving, it just produces a target for jump drives to lock onto
Say what. But surely there is some sort of communication between cyno and bridge and a not tiny calculation involved in such a feat.
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Sir Fourhead
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.05.20 15:22:00 -
[177]
Originally by: tiviirulez
Originally by: Sir Fourhead
Originally by: tiviirulez The cynofield is supposed to be a beacon to move up to over 2 million tons over distances of several lightyears (!) with what accuracy? 15km? The whole thing fits almost on a shuttle and works instantly?
spoilers: the cyno doesn't do any part of the moving, it just produces a target for jump drives to lock onto
Say what. But surely there is some sort of communication between cyno and bridge and a not tiny calculation involved in such a feat.
wiki Please pardon the prissy overtones that will be found throughout this letter, but the reservoir from which CCP draws its lickspittles is primarily the masses of revolting enemies of the people. |
Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.20 16:50:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
But OK I'll play: Where are the coral reefs and plants for the small fish to use as cover against the big fish?
They're in high sec.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.05.20 17:29:00 -
[179]
I don't see any good arguments why we SHOULDN'T have a short range cyno jammer.
As far as mainstream fleet battles go, it would have very little impact, since multiple people are involved, they can find a place to activate cyno away from the jammer ships.
For bait and drop tactics, you'd just need 2 people on the scene instead of 1. Again no problem for anyone who's putting some effort into setting up a trap. The only people who will be most annoyed by this are the bored cap pilots that just want to bait and drop somebody with minimum effort.
Why shouldn't be such a module? it increases complexity of the battlefield, allowing creation of new strategies on both sides. Sounds like fun
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Cameron Freerunner
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Posted - 2010.05.20 17:54:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Ephemeron I don't see any good arguments why we SHOULDN'T have a short range cyno jammer.
There have been many. Just none you choose to acknowledge or with which you agree.
For whatever reason, you choose to completely ignore the many, many methods for avoiding a hotdrop. Refusing to employ any of those methods is not an argument FOR adding such a module.
You talk about adding complexity, but this module would reduce it. It would save all the necessary scout and intel work that should be employed in anti-hotdrop tactics and fleet warfare in general. It seems to come down to a desire to limit the battlespace to whatever grid you are currently on. You also seem to be one of the few people having any issues with it. The vast majority of EVE seems to be getting along just fine.
The quote above is a pretty good indicator that this thread is now pointless. |
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