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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.05 18:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 05/04/2010 18:11:42
I dunno wether this counts as talk of politics but...
This seems to be going pretty mainstream now:
Warning, this is a very distressing video on the site, so be warned:
http://collateralmurder.com/
Basicly wikileaks managed to aquire and de-encrypt a US video of an apache going hogwild on unarmed civilians he thought were armed.
The fact they mis-identified the people and killed them is horrific, the way they reacted to wounding the children is even worse, and the cover-up...
Quote: 5th April 2010 10:44 EST WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff. Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.05 19:19:00 -
[2]
It is also up on the bbc news site(it is the most read news piece on the most popular news site in the united kingdom), so it is garnering a lot of attention across a lot of countries.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:27:00 -
[3]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 05/04/2010 21:27:17 It's a law in iraq that you can carry an ak-47, that was the law under ******(seriously the ex-leader of iraq's name is censored?), and is also the law under the current regime.
Whatever can be garnered from this, apart from the fact that we have "bahgawd" posters on these forums, is that these troops were in the wrong.
I mean come on, watch at the end of the long video where they sink the hellfire missiles into that building, there are civilians walking along the god dam street and they are quite clearly killed or seriously wounded in that explosion. They were not carrying any weapons and were quite innocent and had no ill intentions. So are people now saying walking around outside in iraq = you are insurgent, heres the business end of my rifle.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:33:00 -
[4]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 05/04/2010 21:34:33
Quote: I'm assuming this is sarcasm because Warrant Officers pilot helicopters in the Army, and you don't need a college degree to become one. The gunners don't need them either.
That was pulled from the something awful forums(where it is enjoying being the most popular thread tonight ), so no you don't need a degree or to be an officer to pilot helicopters in the U.S army at least(warrant officers are not actual commisioned officers, they are the highest ranked non-commisioned soldiers though).
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.05 21:40:00 -
[5]
This is a pretty good tl:dr of the video from the MSNBC(contains the graphic footage so be warned):
Click
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:29:00 -
[6]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 05/04/2010 22:34:54 Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 05/04/2010 22:29:31 Watch towards the end of the video where they fill the building full of hellfires.
There is clearly an unarmed innocent civilian walking down the street in front of the building and then he yells "You are clear. Fire!" showing absolute disregard for the civilian, then the missile slams into the building...then a second one with civilians starting to walk over and examine the wreck...then a third one with the soldiers giving each other a nice round pat on the back "Nice missile!" that they just took out some possible insurgents and clearly unarmed civilians.
Also is just their horrific reaction to the killing, i know that the banter can be used as a disconnect from what you are doing but they are just wanting to kill the guy, then when some other unarmed people show up they kill all of them , kill the wounded guy(getting their wish) and almost kill two kids(who will now grow up hating the foreigners who killed their father or family friends).
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:47:00 -
[7]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 05/04/2010 22:47:15 Okay then that is fair enough, they are indoctrinated to think "he is the enemy, i shall smite him down, if i don't he will do it to me". But it is still pretty horrifying how they want someone who isnt actually posing a threat to start posing a threat so they just kill them like that.
But do you care to comment on my other point of them just filling a building full of hellfire missiles with civilians in plain sight yelling "You're clear", then boom, civilian dies along with the guys with guns. Then civilians walk over...boom...boom.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.05 22:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kitimortoa
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing Okay then that is fair enough, they are indoctrinated to think "he is the enemy, i shall smite him down, if i don't he will do it to me".
But do you care to comment on my other point of them just filling a building full of hellfire missiles with civilians in plain sight yelling "You're clear", then boom, civilian dies along with the guys with guns. Then civilians walk over...boom...boom.
All I can really say is they were caught up in the moment.
I'm sorry but thats just unacceptable, a god dam unarmed man is in view and they fire. You do not get "caught up" in the moment like that, soldiers have it hammered into their skulls to not shoot unless it is a certified enemy and to minimalise civilian casualties. What you are basicly saying is people get caught up in the moment and it is fine to fire willy nilly into a inhabitated area filled with innocent civilians, and kill a few, as long as you kill the mean bad guys, who cares if a couple innocents get blown to a pink mist in the process.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.06 07:34:00 -
[9]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 06/04/2010 07:35:39 Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 06/04/2010 07:35:04 Assuming the average velocity of the round is about 20% less than the muzzle velocity, and timing between it firing(camera shaking slightly) and it hitting, it is about 1,680m away. And yes the RPG has a range of about 980m,(they are also INCREDIBLY innaccurate).
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.06 08:01:00 -
[10]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 06/04/2010 08:02:42 Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 06/04/2010 08:01:41 Look at this "insurgent" (graphic and disturbing, so be warned)
I think that is the most disgusting and blatant example of their disregard for innocent lives(same video)
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.06 11:25:00 -
[11]
The co-founder of wikileaks said on MSNBC that he has a lot more classified videos and that they will be releasing them soon, so this will not be the last we see of this.
Although at this point i think US high command are going to be hunting for the people who released these classified videos, even though they made the right call in doing so.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.07 11:22:00 -
[12]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 07/04/2010 11:23:25
Originally by: Rouge Drone Some of those gentlemen were carrying assault rifles. Perhaps the journalists shouldn't have chosen such a disreputable group of associates if they had an aversion to being shot.
One must also call into question why children were being brought into a war zone to help dispose of corpses. It's clear that bad parenting was to blame for their injuries, not the military.
All in all I feel that my freedom has been thoroughly protected and I'd like to thank the hard working men and women of our armed forces for their dedication and service.
"Bahgawd those people wont threaten my freedoms, BAHGAWD"
Your freedom has nothing to do with this, afghanistan maybe. They wre trying to get the wounded man out instead of leaving him dieing on the street.
I can only hope you are a troll. Also NONE OF THEM were carrying assault rifles of any sort, the things you are seeing are camera tripods, no weapons were recovered from the site. What is yoru answer to them firing missiles into innocent civilians at the end of the tape?
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.07 11:28:00 -
[13]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 07/04/2010 11:28:39
Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Barakkus
My wife and I watched this tonight, we both agree the first scene was something that could have been seen as some armed insurgents that may have been involved in the engagement the apache was called in as support for.
The second scene of shooting missiles into a building while obvious civilians are walking past though, another story.
The first scene was questionable in my opinion, they certainly didn't appear to be hostile to me but who knows what conditions and ROE the choppers were operating under. Firring on the van seemed to be completely unjustified but with their blood going and the ROE they were operating under who knows what was going going through their heads. If the was a van with a red-cross or crescent on it I bet they wouldn't have fired. But it was unmarked and so they got shot for helping people, which may have been justifiable under the ROE they were operating under, who knows?
The second one you are talking about is the .gif? To me it looked like there was an operator and observer and that the civilian walked on to the scene after the all clear was given and perhaps even the missile fired. It's hard to tell but he sure seems to come out of no where when I watch it. The important part of it is edited out; when exactly does that man appear on frame (you'll notice the vid cuts in and he appears from behind the far left pole)? And who could see him when were the orders given (the text at the bottom could easily have been before or after or made up it's impossible to know)? When was the missile fired (was it already in the air when they saw the man or did the see the man and fire anyways)? None of the pertinent information is there really to make a reasonable call on what happened. That's the one to which I would apply the term collateral damage to though, given the information that is available. Very unfortunate.
Keep watching that scene, civilians start approaching the blast site after and they fire again...and again. Also the missile was not fired at the poitn the civilian walks into view, he walked into view as he was starting to give the all clear which the .gif doesnt portray clearly. He fired a few seconds later.
Basicly they disregarded the rules of engagement and commited a war crime. It is a right in iraq to carry an AK, them gunning down people they didnt positively ID is bad, gunning down unarmed innocent civilians(and children) who were just trying to help a wounded (innocent) man is horrific. Then they start firing missiles into civilians at the end.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.04.07 11:38:00 -
[14]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 07/04/2010 11:42:24
Originally by: DeBingJos
If someone did that **** to my family I would blow up some buildings too. (and worse)
This is why we fight :jihad:
(That was sarcasm, dont break down my door CIA tia)
But yeah, doing this isn't going to help win them support in the surrounding communities, it will just garner them more enemies. Those kids are going to grow up realising the big mean west minced their father and friends with a 30mm chaingun.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 21:46:00 -
[15]
They make it sound like they were hanging out with armed insurgents(no one was armed, get that through your heads).
The only armed people i see apart from the american soldiers are the people in the building towards the end just before they blow it up along with the civilians around it.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 22:45:00 -
[16]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 07/04/2010 22:54:17
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing They make it sound like they were hanging out with armed insurgents(no one was armed, get that through your heads).
Look at dat camera lens.
It is a camera tripod, it is shaped nothing like an RPG tube. Also i wouldn't be holding a 15lb tube right up in the air like that... They also reported "4-5 guys with aks!" , there is nothing remotely looking like an AK there.
Face it, the soldiers were in the wrong and they lied. They also commmited a war crime by disregarding the lives of civilians by yelling "your clear" and filling a building full of hellfire missiles in the middle of a busy suburb(and civilians were killed in that)
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:46:00 -
[17]
Oh applebabe oh applebabe, where art thou applebabe.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
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